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What should Square Enix do to make Final Fantasy relevant again?

duckroll

Member
It's just that SE's talent is very thin at the moment and I am not so sure I would like to see Toriyama direct another FF unless he gets over his obsession.

Nomura will surely move full time onto KH3 once FFXV is done.

Toriyama is definitely staying in S-E. The management likes him, Kitase likes him, and he apparently handles his teams well. He's not going anywhere, and I'll be shocked if he isn't involved in another FF game in the future.

Nomura probably isn't "moving" anywhere either, since KH3 is developed in Osaka. He'll continue to handle projects in Tokyo while overseeing the progress from the Osaka team now and then. I think the days of Nomura being "full time" on a single game are long gone. Like the past several years, he'll be involved with multiple projects from now on, each with their own co-directors who are handling the day to day team management.
 

Hollow

Member
Release Final Fantasy XV.

I know I'd buy it day one. 13 was a joke. Didn't even bother with 13-2 and Lightning Returns is just more of Toriyama writing for his digital waifu.
 

Croyles

Member
Their failures in the Spirits Within movie and FF14 has made them so scared that they are now stuck in a "profit above all else" mentality which is actually hurting them.

Don't see anyway back for them unfortunately.
 

DigitalDevilSummoner

zero cognitive reasoning abilities
This guy kept the game from going under. Never forget that.

yoshi-p1.jpg
 

sublimit

Banned
I'd like to see the main series return to one-shot games once again.I miss the time when each FF release was something special and unique with completely new stories,characters and settings.

Squaresoft used to be so badass back then...they didn't cared if a main FF game was hugely successful or not so much,they would just continue and try to make a completely new one that surpassed the previous one.I really respected that.

But it seems that at some point most of the badass people left the company and greedy wimps came to replace them.
 

benjammin

Member
Tell a good story with interesting characters in an interesting setting. Get rid of the cringe worthy dialogue. Drop the hand holding and let us explore. That's all I ask
 

oSoLucky

Member
The topic of how bad FFXIII's story and characters are always reminds me of George Lucas response to Episode 1. In that, he tells moviegoers that the Star Wars films were made for kids/adolescents and that everyone simply grew up.

I'm completely for a game maker growing up with its fans(I heavily criticize Nintendo for not), but to say that FFXIII's story and characters are more trope-riddled and it's story more melodramatic than all of the previous entries is ridiculous.

There's no way to unexperience the old games from the first time around, but if you pay attention to their stories, most of them are no better.

I think the series will be fine as long as XV doesn't have a tutorial that lasts for 80% of the main storyline. I have no doubt that there will be a good combat system. Also, allowing exploration and backtracking(singular overwoeld) would be much lauded.

The Action style combat is a good step. In this say and age, turn based combat doesn't have the draw to sell as many copies as would need to. Also, if Square kept making the same combat system every game(which posters here seem to beg for), then people would trash it for bring the same.
 

Jinroh

Member
They need to make an old school FF like FF9 with SD graphics. Something that can be released in one year. If they put the gameplay mechanics forward with a really interesting universe, they will realize gamers don't care about great looking games that lack towns or exploration.
 

akaoni

Banned
shoot, I misinterpreted your words
here's another Lightning image as an apology
FinalFantasyXIVLightningCrossover-2.jpg

Miq'ote are really promiscuous in Final Fantasy XIV, the pose and the outfit are straight out of XIV. I think their lore regarding sex is crazy too, or maybe that was in FFXI.

Cross-promo of course. Any of the signature outfits from XIV would have sex appeal, apart from Lalafell.

eorzea-collection-ffxiv.png


Let's not forget the boob physics from XIV either.

The difference between LR and XIV is we don't have pervs asking questions about it, people spinning it beyond the best complaint, nor clickbait journalism or Toriyama.
 
Considering that every final fantasy game still sells millions of units, this thread is based on a false assumption.

Final Fantasy is already relevant, so "Making it relevant again" is a moot point. Your personal taste is irrelevant to the series' relevance.

This can't get repeated enough; Final Fantasy is still one of the largest selling franchises in the JRPG genre.
 

spekkeh

Banned
SquareEnix turned to shit right around the time it was formed. I don't think they will ever recover.

This. Squeenix wants to salvage Final Fantasy?

They need to ditch this

Also no more of this androgynous moe crap


This needs to go. They should design their characters more like this.


In fact, want to save Final Fantasy? Call it Chrono Trigger.

Turn based battles should probably go the way of the dodo too. I know yall like it, but that's because you're the last vestiges of people thinking Final Fantasy is relevant.
 

Arthea

Member
Make it good again, of course: diverse gameplay, nice worlds, minigames, chocobos, trains, plains, submarines, card games, weapons, arenas, no to all fun is in dlc (I'm looking at you FF13-2), world maps, Uematsu, don't take itself seriously, have good stories, interesting characters, rehire Sakaguchi may be, for some lost magic.
 

Gamerloid

Member
I suggest they stop constantly making Final Fantasy. It's just a name now anyway. After FFIX, they just keep experimenting with the franchise. FFXII and FFXV can't be recognized as a Fnal Fantasy game to me. Despite FFXV looking good so far, it just looks like a new IP.

Recently, I've been thinking of what exactly makes a "Final Fantasy" game, a Final Fantasy game? The magic and monsters? Seriously, FFXII, as much as I didn't like it, could've been a new franchise. I'm shock TWEWY didn't include Final Fantasy on its name somewhere.

In the NES, SNES, and PSome era, you knew what you were getting when you bought a Final Fantasy game. That's no longer the case. Now you can only elect the same magic and monsters. Meanwhile, to this day, you know what you're getting when you buy a Dragon Quest game. Give FF a break and try and make DQ successful overseas. Build new franchises.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Well, relevancy's a weird thing. I mean, clearly Final Fantasy is still relevant, people still talk about it, it still sells well, it's not irrelevant.

I don't think XIII has the greatest story ever told, but then, none of the Final Fantasy's did. Seriously, go back and play one, any one, you think that shit has fantastic writing? Isn't silly as shit? So do I think the storytelling of XII or XIII pales in comparison to VI or something? Not really. So I don't think it's the quality of writing that's declined here. But hey, I'm always up for better writing.

Do I think the character designs have faltered? Nope. They've always been silly.

Music? Eh, this will differ depending on who you ask but I still think the series has good music.

Gameplay? Well, excluding XIII and XIII-2, and also VIII but I try and forget that game, I think the gameplay had been consistently getting better.

So what do I think has contributed to Final Fantasy, not losing relevance but maybe, losing it's prestige, shine or luster? Graphics. Storytelling. Time. Not of the Final Fantasy series in particular but in everything else. No longer does Final Fantasy stand above a sea of janky weird ass JRPGs with it's relative non-jank but also weird characters. No longer does it stand leaps and bounds graphically superior to other RPGs when they all look "good enough." No longer is the character design something to our imagination or relegated to those who view the instruction manual but it's on our big screens in all their pixelated glory for us to ridicule. No longer is the RPG the genre where you can do more than any other game when you have games with destructible environments, swimming mechanics, cover mechanics, stealth mechanics and the like, now the RPG feels like the most restricted gameplay format around. No longer is the RPG the genre that tells a story when almost every genre can tell just as strong, weird and flimsy a story.

I do think that also, us gamers growing up does have something to do with it but I don't think that's the sole issue. To me the RPG by it's very definition is stuck. It really can't evolve much. You can play with the formula a little but too much and all of a sudden "it's not a RPG," where as you can get away with throwing in RPG elements into a first person shooter or whatever, come up with something with better gameplay, equal storytelling capability and the like and you don't get the same hate from your fan base. Therefore I don't think the JRPG ever can become big again because I don't think it's them that have declined in quality that's the issue, rather than the consumer now has more choices for storytelling in games and the average consumer isn't so strict on what genre their game is and where it borrows elements from. The JRPG fan, however, is a lot more demanding and strict for what they consider a JRPG to be and thus won't tolerate too much creep from other genres into their games making the genre somewhat stagnant and tired.

So the problem is the JRPG fans themselves I think. They want the same tired mechanics of years past, the same fantastical character designs from the past, the same batshit insane stories from the past and when they get it, they shit on it. And 9 out of 10 times they're right to shit on it.

I'm of the opinion that all genres deserve to exist. There's probably people that lament the verticleness of modern shooters and just want to play Doom 26 without having to look up or down, I think those people should get their game. I think people wanting a new Final Fantasy VI-2 should get their game. Thing is, I think gaming's gotten large enough with enough genres offered now that some publishers need to start to learn who their audience is and not worry about mainstream success. There will never be a Final Fantasy more "relevant" than FF VII because that's all been done before now. I don't care how fantastic looking you make it it will never again conjure up that "holy shit this is next gen shit here" emotion from anyone. Everything looks good enough now. The rise of the JRPG happened because not of anything the JRPG did right but because it did things that at the time no other genre could do which coincided with a time where technology advanced rapidly which allowed an established developer like Square to stand at the top of what was possible and because since so many of our games at the time on consoles were Japanese and the RPG was a popular genre there we got a lot of them, of which Final Fantasy stood at the top. Recreating that market is the only way to make Final Fantasy "relevant" again and frankly I think that's a horrendous idea.

So, to sum up, forget making it "relevant" and shooting for that same level of appeal that VII had and just make the game you want on a reasonable budget and call it a day.

Also, put Lightning in everything, keep Ali Hillis forever and give her her old breasts back.
 

Jinko

Member
Turn based battles should probably go the way of the dodo too. I know yall like it, but that's because you're the last vestiges of people thinking Final Fantasy is relevant.

How exactly is betting on appealing to new players and alienating your old fans a good thing ?

Thats asking for failure, which oddly has been whats happening to Final Fantasy since X anyway.
 
How exactly is betting on appealing to new players and alienating your old fans a good thing ?

Thats asking for failure, which oddly has been whats happening to Final Fantasy since X anyway.
Hey, FFX has good system, I like it.
I just miss the world map.
 

Usobuko

Banned
Put Final Fantasy on all platforms. Have Square Enix to support Nintendo platforms well, make them and everyone else your allies. Localise Dragon Quest. Bribed Monolith Soft to tackle another genre.
 

CTLance

Member
Less focus on style, more focus on substance, and a priority on fun.

Design a battle system first, one that does not need auto battle or complexity to be a deep and most of all fun experience with every encounter. KISS.

Speaking of which, and next in line: design a compelling world. Implement something akin to earthbound where grindy lowlevel fights can be shortened or avoided entirely. Maybe a bit more interactive than in EB, actually.
Increase enemy interactivity on the world map. Have them flee, hide, hunt each other, regroup, ambush, ... Generally explore how to make the game world more natural and engaging to players. This does not mean "more switches for OOP drawbridges" but maybe a concentrated effort to make pseudo-real NPCs that interact with each other and are aware of the world around them. Or a BoF like player village. Branching story based on who you romance or have in your party. I haven't played it but from what I gather Steel Battalion Kinect for all it's copious amounts of suck seems to have a pretty good party chemistry going on, with perma-killable unique personalities and all that good stuff. Maybe look into that and supercharge it.

After you've designed all of that get cracking at a interesting story that offers enough meat for 30-somethings as well as your usual youngster target market to allow for a nostalgia-infused purchase to turn into genuine fandom instead of abject horror.

Also: Know when to ham it up. Ham is the base of a good story, so use it sparingly, but effectively. Don't go overboard with drama or pretentiousness.

Finally: Please no more underage hankypanky. Not even hints towards that. Thankee!





Oh, and also:

Dear SquEnix, please make better spinoffs.

No, seriously. Make spinoffs. Or new games, even.

After working on a mainline game give the main designer and his core team some "hands off vacation": complete freedom to do what they want, a smallish budget that cannot under any circumstances be increased, a short (1 year?) timeframe that is equally set in stone - and allow them to make a spinoff or independent game on whatever platform they want, in whatever genre they want. Let them explore, experiment, refine their skills, recharge their batteries. Goes for the entire team, really.

Push the resulting medium-sized games out on a consistent basis, prized according to their quality, advertised fairly but equally, with a focus on the context of the overarching "experimentation" theme. Maybe even launch a mini kickstarter-lite site for the teams where they can interact with fans in a standardised and hassle-free way, insulated from the frothing masses by competent site staff.

Meanwhile someone completely different chosen from your pool of game designers/teams will be allowed to have a go at a properly funded mainline FF, based on the quality and sales of their experimental games ... and willingness of the designer him/herself of course. This should be a badge of honor, earned by previous achievements. Of course, leave a franchise management team breathing down their necks to make sure the games stay consistent, but without giving them the ability to drown out the designer/team vision.

This should introduce some modicum of competition and 'free market' pressure on the teams while keeping them busy and happy on low-risk projects otherwise (and giving the fan base the illusion that it can influence matters). This should also pay off nicely in terms of franchiseable games.
 

Aeana

Member
This. Squeenix wants to salvage Final Fantasy?

They need to ditch this


Also no more of this androgynous moe crap



This needs to go. They should design their characters more like this.



In fact, want to save Final Fantasy? Call it Chrono Trigger.

Turn based battles should probably go the way of the dodo too. I know yall like it, but that's because you're the last vestiges of people thinking Final Fantasy is relevant.

I found this post amusing since the original appeal of Chrono Trigger was that it was a fusion of Squaresoft and Enix (Dragon Quest) staff. Not that I can imagine why you feel that Enix is the problem with SE.
 

Jinko

Member
Make a game that takes a lot of cues from FFXII.

If they could make a battle system similar to 12's but allows the player to switch between real-time and turn based in the options or at the beginning of the game it would be awesome.

I imagine that would take a lot of balancing though :S
 
The brand might be salvageable but I don't think the Square part of Square-Enix is. Starting with The Bouncer and Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within they lost all their appeal.

Actually, it might have started sooner as this guy exists (a cringe inducing douchebag with a Mike Tyson tattoo, great design assholes):

Zell_Dincht.jpg
 

Vashetti

Banned
Hire better translators/write better stories

FFXII's English script was like Shakespeare compared to FFXIII

I had and still have zero clue what the fuck went on in FFXIII and XIII-2

The story is a clusterfuck. I shouldn't have to read through data logs to understand what's going on
 

morikaze

Banned
Based on sales, FF still is relevant. Without Hironobu Sakaguchi's presence during development, Final Fantasy can never be what it was. Just let it go.
 
SE should be aiming for AAAA quality FF titles. Not B tier quality games like Blue Dragon and The Last Story.
Although the production values of these game is not as much as FF, yet they felt like a SQ game more than recent FFs especially XIII this game was pure streamlined torture. Hope XV is better.
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Nothing special. FF never stopped being relevant. The last main FF sold quite alot and we're still waiting for the next main entry, XV, that will sell quite alot again. No fool would expect spin off or sequels to get the same attentions main episodes get, so I don't see how you can say FF is not relevant anymore while the last main entry sold great and the next one is still under development, lol.

Of course, XIV bombed but ARR will do well.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Final Fantasy can't be saved unless SE can remember what made them great in the 90's. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. Pretty much almost everything SquareSOFT made in the 90's and early's 00's was pure gold.

If they can't regain that 90's swagger that they had, and stop making sequels to their games, it can be successful. Cut the fucking linearity, and the bullshit stories. Maybe take some western influence, perhaps from games like Skyrim (in regard to it's quest structure and open world)

Final Fantasy XII was like they were wringing out the last of Final Fantasy greatness, and it was a great game, and a good example of the direction they could have gone.

Then came FFXIII to fuck it all up. Seriously FUCK THAT GAME. UGH.

Fire Toriyama.

Also they dont need to go back to FF12. The one they need to look at and emulate is FFX. FF12 while ambitous had its issues and its story and characters barring a few werent that special

While I agree that X is a great game, imagine if they have removed some of the "Pilgramige" aspects and opened the game up a bit with a full world map? It would have been perfection. And yes, we DO need another FFXII-like game. Even MORE-so, do we need to return to Ivalice (which would probably never happen :()
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Localizing Type 0 would be a start. But that game isn't utterly terrible and people might like it so eh.

------------

I kinda wish they would give FF a break. I want to see something new every now and then. And they have so many IP's to work with. But they have this closeminded notion that they can only use FF, KH, and DQ.

Get rid of Toriyama, Enix and all of Lightning lovers, bring back Sakaguchi and Nobue Uematsu.

He ain't got time for that.

 

Skilletor

Member
Get rid of Toriyama, Enix and all of Lightning lovers, bring back Sakaguchi and Nobue Uematsu.

Sakaguchi hasn't made anything worth caring about sans SE, I don't see why bringing him back would fix anything.

Shimomura, Ishimoto, and Hamauzu are all amazing composers, but I wouldn't mind an Uematsu OST.

I'm already positive FF15's OST will cause angels to descend and bring peace to the world.
 

Mr. RHC

Member
Step 1: Never let Toriyama ever write and or co-write a game in this series again, the same for the other writers of XIII.

Step 2: Release FF XV

Step 3: Take risks, play around with the battle system, break conventions

Step 4: Remember what made FF great and its trademarks. Remember the source material but don't necessarily recreate it.

Step 5: Bring Nobuo Uematsu back on board :D, and maybe let Yoko Shimomura do the soundtracks for all upcoming games. Please don't forget the classic themes, don't toss them away, you have a timeless Prelude, you have a timeless Victory Fanfare, you have a timeless Chocobo Theme.

Step 6: Don't toss away re-occurring characters

Step 7: For the love of all the nicely written Final Fantasy games, please get a good writer!
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Sakaguchi hasn't made anything worth caring about sans SE, I don't see why bringing him back would fix anything.

Shimomura, Ishimoto, and Hamauzu are all amazing composers, but I wouldn't mind an Uematsu OST.

I'm already positive FF15's OST will cause angels to descend and bring peace to the world.

Sakaguchi was more then a developer. He was also a key part of the company staff that was responsible for many of the management decisions before he left. You aren't looking at the big picture.

And besides. Sakaguchi ain't coming back. His surfboard has sailed.
 
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