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What weaknesses / strengths do you expect from PS3?
- Thread starter mrklaw
- Start date
AndreasNystrom
Member
weakner : It will make reality looking dull in comparsion, and you will find jaggies in real life.
pros : everything else.
pros : everything else.
gofreak said:
Well like I said, it all comes down to price. A 300 dollar PC back then and now would get owned by a PS2.
But its a good guess to say the pc would out due the PS2 (Offcourse price would be more then a PS2 at 299.99). Remember that software for the ps2 was programmed from the ground up for the ps2. For the PC, it's the lowest common denominator. Quake 3 had a good amount of geometry peaking over the million polygon mark (don't remember the count but it was a little over a million). Geforce2 ran it at 100+ FPS at 1078x768a resolution in high qaulity. Compare it to the PS2 version. (Offcourse its not fair comparison cause its a port yadda yadda).
One thing that sux about pc graphics is that videocards die before their time, always. Not even reaching their prime. Look at the GC and Resident Evil 4, the console is certainly getting its prime time. Looking at the XBOX, that geforce 3 (plus 2x V-power) is certainly going further then the original geforce 3 was pushed.
Great Wasabi Man
Member
One again the first line of this PS will have some sort of bug probally over heating...again or falutly lasers
Phoenix
Member
I expect a lot of number crunching performance and the same memory problems that Sony has historically had with all their platforms where the memory is fast, yet not plentiful. They truly do buy their memory from a store where the memory prices never go down - or offer volume discounts.
Panajev2001a
(Today, 11:55 AM)
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Haha, what the hell? Been nibbling on EviLore's ear for that privilege?
(Today, 11:55 AM)
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Haha, what the hell? Been nibbling on EviLore's ear for that privilege?
krypt0nian
Banned
For the love of god, let the PS3 be easier to program for.
From this generation alone....
Strengths:
-Great third party support
-Massive processing potential
-Will include online
-Will more than likely include four controllers ports this time around, all wireless
-Dual Shock 3.
Weaknesses:
-I suspect it'll have all that CPU power but the graphics won't be able to keep up. Kind of like the Xbox. The graphics will more likely be inferior to the Revolution and the Xenon.
-Dual Shock 3.
-The processing power will be moot, WYSIWYG >>> all. The console that can do the most onscreen will say to hell with the console's ability. So those expecting something glorifying will once again be disappointing.
-It'll compete with the Revolution, a console no one will no much about until next E3, whereas Sony is revealing the console in March, as of now.
I could go on on both sides, but you get the idea.
Strengths:
-Great third party support
-Massive processing potential
-Will include online
-Will more than likely include four controllers ports this time around, all wireless
-Dual Shock 3.
Weaknesses:
-I suspect it'll have all that CPU power but the graphics won't be able to keep up. Kind of like the Xbox. The graphics will more likely be inferior to the Revolution and the Xenon.
-Dual Shock 3.
-The processing power will be moot, WYSIWYG >>> all. The console that can do the most onscreen will say to hell with the console's ability. So those expecting something glorifying will once again be disappointing.
-It'll compete with the Revolution, a console no one will no much about until next E3, whereas Sony is revealing the console in March, as of now.
I could go on on both sides, but you get the idea.
Warm Machine
Member
The PS2 was saddled with a fucked up display chip, 2 controller ports, and a very low amount of video ram. It's strength is the speed it can stream data from the DVD and it's fill rate.
That said, I've got high hopes for the PS3. If they can get Blu Ray in there it will be a hell of a bonus.
After this next generation of Xbox 2, PS3, Revolution, the industry is going to have to suck it up and change to a one console market. Dev costs and time are rising too high to support 3 machines. As well, at that level all 3 will have what will be near identical technology to the eyes of most people. We may as well have one standard that lasts for 6 years or so and have the hardware manufacturers build their own models of that standard.
That said, I've got high hopes for the PS3. If they can get Blu Ray in there it will be a hell of a bonus.
After this next generation of Xbox 2, PS3, Revolution, the industry is going to have to suck it up and change to a one console market. Dev costs and time are rising too high to support 3 machines. As well, at that level all 3 will have what will be near identical technology to the eyes of most people. We may as well have one standard that lasts for 6 years or so and have the hardware manufacturers build their own models of that standard.
Catalyst said:
I see nothing that indicates they will go with 4 ports next time. Multitaps = $$$ and hell the PS systems have an asthetically pleasing 2 controller look. When I think PS brand I think 2 controller ports and I don't really see that changing.
I really believe that if the PS3 doesn't launch with the best graphics on the market Sony will have people killing themselves in shame. They're putting so much on the line for the system it better be doing the most amazing things on the market even if it's 'cheating' underneath the system to do them.
Warm Machine
Member
Oh! My Car! said:
1080p or bust. Blur Ray is supposed to display in that rez.
The adoption of OpenGL isn't going to magically make the PS3 easy to develop for. Building on the work of others just gives Sony a place to start. PSP is a simpler design, uses an OpenGL like API, comes with many dev libraries... yet developers are still complaining because it's not working as intended. PS3 will be much worse.
Ehm - first, care to name the complaints of "not working as intended" or the devs who are complaining about them?cybamerc said:
Secondly - if you actually believe that there ever was ANY early dev environment for any console, that did not generate any complaints, you're living very far detached from reality.
The only real issue with PSP development has been with the late arrival of final hardware - but that has nothing to do with development environment itself.
[quote="mrklaw']So what do people expect from PS3? We seem to know about Cell, but what graphics tech do you expect to be associated with it? Will Sony drop the ball by missing out things like pixel shaders, or other now fundamental features, instead happy to plough their own furrow?
And bearing in mind Sony seeming happy to ignore the PC graphics card power struggle and architecture paths, does anyone expect anything really left-field? A new way of doing things?[/quote]
At this point I no longer expect anything particularly left-field. Some more recent rumours do suggest possible surprises, but not really in the way most people expect.
Anyway - if Sony diverted from fragment shaders I wouldn't consider that dropping the ball in the least, there are tried and tested alternatives with known performance and other characteristics. Personally some of those might be entertaining to see implemented - I don't know if economical or wise, but just entertaining for seeing those less keen on adapting cry&complain about it.
But ok to summarize...
Pros:
- probably the highest amount of general purpose processing power.
- probably the most memory
- highest capacity optical-media
- probably default paper spec winner
- possibility of IBM development tools
Cons:
- still unanswered questions about programmability that could proove detrimental to potential performance
- depends on who is ultimately in charge of GPU design, but I worry about overengineering at expense of certain basics
- possibility of IBM development tools
I know this is all vague but I'm basing it on actual vague info out there, and I wanted to stay away from non-hw issues, which are more opinions then anything.
And no, the IBM thing isn't a typo - it could be both + and -, in a big way.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Socreges said:Panajev2001a
(Today, 11:55 AM)
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Haha, what the hell? Been nibbling on EviLore's ear for that privilege?
.Warm Machine
Member
Squeak said:
Where the hell did you get that from?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
PSP has hardly crappy libraries and development wise the situation is MUCH better than early PlayStation 2 development (the architecture is morfe developer friendly than PlayStation 2 while you can still apply quite a bit of the experience you got from developing PlayStation 2 engines).
Perhaps you are forgetting how tough was early PlayStation 2 development.
Perhaps you are forgetting how tough was early PlayStation 2 development
.Sure, but that's partially due to hardware design and developers being already comfortable with the spec level. Given that PSP uses an Open GL based development environment, and it's hardly new technology (in the general capability sense, it is cutting edge for portables) I'm really not sure why developers like Koei are having such problems? If SCEI can't supply an effiecent bug free dev suite for the Open GL backed PSP in a timely fashion, how are things going to go with the OpenMax backed PS3, where everything suddenly becomes bleeding edge an immeasurably more advanced? :/Panajev2001a said:PSP has hardly crappy libraries and development wise the situation is MUCH better than early PlayStation 2 development (the architecture is morfe developer friendly than PlayStation 2 while you can still apply quite a bit of the experience you got from developing PlayStation 2 engines).
Perhaps you are forgetting how tough was early PlayStation 2 development
Weaknesses:Loading times, # of controller ports, Memory card speed.
And frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if the Dual Shock design was retired for the next generation.
Strengths: Absolutely huge support, great games in all genres, Rockstar, great graphics (maybe lose the patented Sony jaggy even).
Unknown: online gaming.
And frankly I wouldn't shed a tear if the Dual Shock design was retired for the next generation.
Strengths: Absolutely huge support, great games in all genres, Rockstar, great graphics (maybe lose the patented Sony jaggy even).
Unknown: online gaming.
There is no butts.jarrod said:
The issues with hardware kits running late aside, PSP has dev. environment in line with that of GCN.
PS2 at similar point in life had a severely broken HW emulator, a command line debugger and a buggy set of libraries that was missing more things that it provided.
PS2's only advantage would be early availability of hw-kits - but then that was never considered an advantage when XBox got it's real-hw extremely late either.
DrLazy said:
I can't believe people wishing for that. It always amaze me. You all must be Nbots or something.
What's the use to invest in 4 controller port (and probably influence the price of the console) for the 4-5 games that will use it?? And what's more, almost any 4 player split-screen games the screens are too small and it sucks.
Man buy yourself a multitap if you play some 4 player games. I prefer 2 controller port and playing splitscreen in 2 with other people splitscreen in 2 online.
" the more controller ports the better "? lololololololololol
mrklaw said:
Oh yes, let's decompress textures from the main 32MB of memory, and then send them over a narrow ass bus with all kinds of other stuff, which goes to a GPU (only having 4MB of memory.) Don't give me that "well it's PER FRAME blah blah" business. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE. The proof is in the pudding; that is, what you see on the screen. That's not to say PS2 games always have bad graphics, but it's a shame that with all the money they put into it, they couldn't come up with something better for texturing. Thankfully console developers are much more artistically gifted than most PC developers, so that's a major advantage for the PS2 right there.
I can't believe I fought against people like Deadmeat (crazy as he many be) when he bashed the PS2. He was closer to being right than wrong. PS2 has had awful texturing since the start. As for geometry and lighting, there have been some interesting things, but these games will not age well.
Who knows what to expect, but what I would personally LIKE to see is Sony not wasting so much money on a customized architecture, and come up with something that is much easier for developers to learn.
Warm Machine
Member
Wyzdom said:
Think about everything that you can hook up to a system. A wheel, a gun, regular controllers, bongos, dance pads, etc. Why not have 2 control ports for controllers and 2 free for whatever else? The more controller ports the better so you don't have to plug shit in and unplug it for each and every game.
4 controller ports have been pretty well standard since '96
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Next gen will be about online play. Fuck four controller ports. I hate multiplayer split screen crap.
Truly bug free? Has any dev suite actually managed that? Is the GCN dev suite bug free, since that's the comparison Faf made?jarrod said:
What Faf is saying doesn't exactly run counter to what Koei is saying. Koei's PSP dev team have had approx. 6 months with the dev kit, that's not exactly a lot of time to produce a game, regardless of how accessible the hardware dev suite is.
Sure but they said their difficulties came (in part) from the dev suit itself, not the 6 month crunch. They aren't producing a game from scratch after all, it's based of DW4 PS2.kaching said:
Is the GC kit buggy? Have developers had similar complaints, even in the earliest stages of it's lifetime? I dunno... Sony just doesn't have the best track record when it comes to development environment... I'm not sure why someone would think it'll be different with the relatively alien architectured PS3.
Diablos said:
Well thats your opinion, and i disagree. You want Sony to simply follow what others are doing, even if that is not the best route forward? You are dismissing something simply for being different? Thats pretty shortsighted.
The whole of the PS2s architecture seems designed from the ground up to push large amounts of relatively static data through to the screen very quickly. The 32MB holds your main graphics etc, which you then transfer to the very fast but expensive embedded ram over a very fast bus. Seems pretty good to me. Sure there may be some areas that it isn't great, but its a first shot, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they expand on that original concept.
jarrod - One developer's comments aren't enough to immediately put the PSP dev suite at the same level as the original PS2 dev suite. The overall tenor of developer response to the PSP dev suite has certainly been far more positive than the response to the initial PS2 dev suite. You can't simply latch onto the early dev environment of the PS2 as the definition of the trend in Sony's Playstation dev efforts.
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