What's so horrible about the idea of a third-party Nintendo?

Matlock

Banned
Now, I've given this some thought...and beyond just foolish pride about having the hardware which does nothing other than provide a channel for the software, is there any real reason why Nintendo going third party would make a difference in the gaming world?

Honestly, now, would it be any different if you played Metroid Omega or Super Mario Bros.: Bowser's Revenge on a Playstation 4 or an Xbox 3 or, god forbid a Phantom 2?
 
Matlock said:
Now, I've given this some thought...and beyond just foolish pride about having the hardware which does nothing other than provide a channel for the software, is there any real reason why Nintendo going third party would make a difference in the gaming world?

Honestly, now, would it be any different if you played Metroid Omega or Super Mario Bros.: Bowser's Revenge on a Playstation 4 or an Xbox 3 or, god forbid a Phantom 2?

Would it be any different if you played Halo on your Ps2, or even your PC? Oh... uh.... scratch PC.

Would it be any different if you played Grand Turismo on your GC?


You can apply this to any console manufacturer
 
Uh oh...

Well, to answer this question seriously, I don't like the idea of Nintendo making games around other peoples hardware (though I guess if Nintendo had a say in the hardware it'd be cool), and i'd rather Nintendo were number one than last because then they'd get all the third party software on their system and i'd only need to own one console. Playstation and Xbox first party games I can live without, but I need Nintendo games.
 
Nothing Nintendo's releasing these days really interests me much (except maybe Wario Ware and the new Zelda), but I do appreciate the durability of their systems as opposed to their competitors'.
 
Matlock said:
Not really, GG.

How isn't it any different?

"What's so bad about Nintendo going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Microsoft going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Sega going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Sony going 3rd party?"
 
The industry loses "soul" when this happened. Two technology companies vaguely associated with games are now heading the industry, I think that's a big problem ideologically, if not anything less.

From an economic perspective, the more competitors, the better.
 
Pedigree Chum said:
I wouldn't mind Nintendo being third-party on consoles. But I don't want them out of the handheld business, I love their GBA/DS.

Outside of the cartridge format (and stylus, in DS' case), what differentiates them all that much?

GaimeGuy said:
How isn't it any different?

"What's so bad about Nintendo going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Microsoft going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Sega going 3rd party?"

"What's so bad about Sony going 3rd party?"

Nothing, really, as long as they're still making games I'm alright with it.
 
Matlock said:
Now, I've given this some thought...and beyond just foolish pride about having the hardware which does nothing other than provide a channel for the software, is there any real reason why Nintendo going third party would make a difference in the gaming world?
Maybe people would have to buy more systems in order to play their software.

I think this thread would be way better posed as 'a second-party Nintendo'. Then you get to the heart of what you call "foolish pride".

At any rate, I do respect Nintendo's philosophy towards games and how they consider designing hardware with it in mind. Though this is can be either a good or bad thing, depending. ie, Virtual Boy... potentially DS
 
If it means diminishing quality of games, case in point, Sega, then I say no.

Buying consoles is a relatively small and a very sound investment, complainers should get a job.
 
Nintendo designs their hardware (at least recently) in ways that will foster new and creative gameplay experiences. In that sense, Nintendo only making software, to me, would represent a MAJOR blow to the eventual advancement of gaming as a for of entertainment. Sony and MS will continuing using the same standardized input methods, right down to having LITERALLY the same controllers, whereas Nintendo is the company saying "hmmm... why don't we do THIS (touch screen, etc).
 
Competition is good for the industry, and I love Nintendo consoles for nostalgia. So either way I don't want Nintendo to go third party.

But... in the end... if it happened... I wouldn't care. As long as Nintendo is able to maintain the same quality of games as a third party as it did when it made consoles, I wouldn't complain.
 
GDJustin said:
Nintendo designs their hardware (at least recently) in ways that will foster new and creative gameplay experiences.

What did the design of the gamecube do when it comes to create new and creative gameplay experiences that cant be found on the other consoles?
 
Matlock said:
Outside of the cartridge format (and stylus, in DS' case), what differentiates them all that much?

Well basically you've mentioned two of the reasons I want Nintendo portables to remain. Cartridges = no load times, I would hate to see portable Nintendo games with loading. The stylus adds a lot and would be missed if Nintendo were to make games for the PSP. Plus reliability of Nintendo portables is really high, which is definately great. I just really like their portable hardware, especially the DS, which is very unique. If Nintendo were to go 3rd party I doubt they'd be able to get Sony to make unconventional hardware like the DS.

The reason why I don't care if Nintendo goes 3rd party on consoles is because they're all fundamentally the same. Controller, system, tv. Nintendo games would be fantastic on PS2 or XBox. With the DS Nintendo is showing unique hardware that I'm a fan of, I don't want them to go 3rd party in this regard as we'd most likely lose that.

BTW, this viewpoint is obviously pre-Revolution. If Nintendo do really cool things hardware wise with that machine I'll change my tune entirely and hope they don't go 3rd party at all.
 
Naked Shuriken said:
What did the design of the gamecube do when it comes to create new and creative gameplay experiences that cant be found on the other consoles?
That's exactly the problem of the GC.
 
Naked Shuriken said:
What did the design of the gamecube do when it comes to create new and creative gameplay experiences that cant be found on the other consoles?

The gamecube has a handle. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, BITCH!
 
GaimeGuy said:
The gamecube has a handle. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, BITCH!

That made me :lol

Seriously, though, that handle was the worst design decision Nintendo has ever made (aesthetically speaking and not including Virtual Boy). Not because it isn't functional... but it just tosses everything off and makes it even uglier. A generic box was bad enough :(

I hope Revolution is so rad that it makes my eyes explode just by looking at it.
 
Grubdog said:
Uh oh...

Well, to answer this question seriously, I don't like the idea of Nintendo making games around other peoples hardware (though I guess if Nintendo had a say in the hardware it'd be cool), and i'd rather Nintendo were number one than last because then they'd get all the third party software on their system and i'd only need to own one console. Playstation and Xbox first party games I can live without, but I need Nintendo games.

Wow, that's sad.
 
Well actually, I think a good point was made earlier in the thread;

Nintendo is the last pure-gaming company (ok, they do other stuff, but gaming is their core business) that is a significant competitor in this industry, in terms of hardware. If you take them away, you have two multimedia giants, not gaming companies, that are controlling the industry, essentially. People want there to be a purely gaming company in the gaming industry, just so they know that there's someone, some company, that has its priorities in the gaming industry, not in the production of an OS or in the production of CD players and movies.

That, and the nostalgia factor, and the fact that Nintendo has been a competitor in the whole "modern" gaming era, post-industry crash in the early 80s. Losing them would be akin to, I guess, when the last of the founding fathers of the USA died, Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson. It's hard to really explain.
 
I'd have just as much fun playing a nintendo game on a sony or microsoft console. Whatever console a game is on has absolutely no baring on the quality of the game.
 
I think what people are worried about is Nintendo falling even further if they do go third party. People look at Sega and wonder if they would struggle in the same sense. I doubt there's any Sega fan happy right now seeing Sega trudging through the mud, and wish they can get back to delivering titles that give a great feeling like Skies of Arcadia, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, or Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Nintendo has been able to- for some fans- still deliver great games with Pikmin 2, Paper Mario, Wario Ware, the revival of Metroid, and introduction of Fire Emblem to US audiences. Whether Nintendo becomes like Sega if they go third party or like Konami remains to be seen, but I believe many fans don't want to run that experiment.
 
AniHawk said:
I think what people are worried about is Nintendo falling even further if they do go third party. People look at Sega and wonder if they would struggle in the same sense. I doubt there's any Sega fan happy right now seeing Sega trudging through the mud, and wish they can get back to delivering titles that give a great feeling like Skies of Arcadia, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, or Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Nintendo has been able to- for some fans- still deliver great games with Pikmin 2, Paper Mario, Wario Ware, the revival of Metroid, and introduction of Fire Emblem to US audiences. Whether Nintendo becomes like Sega if they go third party or like Konami remains to be seen, but I believe many fans don't want to run that experiment.

That, and we're stubborn bastards. ^_^
 
missAran said:
The industry loses "soul" when this happened. Two technology companies vaguely associated with games are now heading the industry, I think that's a big problem ideologically, if not anything less.

From an economic perspective, the more competitors, the better.
Depends on who's economic perspective, although i see what you're saying. Three consoles this gen, plus two handhelds isn't easy on the wallet, nor the interest.
 
GDJustin said:
whereas Nintendo is the company saying "hmmm... why don't we do THIS (touch screen, etc).
Please elaborate on "et cetera."

The possible problem with Nintendo not doing hardware is the chance that they could be the only true gaming-dedicated system in the future. Both Sony and Microsoft have expressed interest in adding more useless functions to consoles, further diluting their awesomeness--if Nintendo is the only company that wants to keep gaming pure then their absence in the hardware market would definitely suck.
 
MarkRyan said:
Please elaborate on "et cetera."

The possible problem with Nintendo not doing hardware is the chance that they could be the only true gaming-dedicated system in the future. Both Sony and Microsoft have expressed interest in adding more useless functions to consoles, further diluting their awesomeness--if Nintendo is the only company that wants to keep gaming pure then their absence in the hardware market would definitely suck.

How in the hell does adding features to a console make it any less capable of playing good games? If I have a choice of 2 consoles that have the same quality games, and 1 can only play games while the other plays games, dvds, and makes toast, I'll definitely pick the latter.
 
segatavis said:
Look at what happened to Sega... :(
This is all that needs to be said. With the Dreamcast, even though they fucked up in a lot of areas, they had a constant stream of fucking quality games.

Look at what they release these days. If you own and develop for your own console, you have all the freedoms in the world when it comes to games.
 
Pimpbaa said:
How in the hell does adding features to a console make it any less capable of playing good games?
It doesn't. It's about costs and reliability. Personally i'm not interested in another dvd player, another toaster, another whatnot at home when i got dedicated machines for that that do the job twice as good. That's why i'd prefer a pure gaming console (don't necessarily mean GC).

That's just my preference, i can definitely understand that everything and the kitchen sink in a console appeals to many people.
 
Oh god, no. I like where Nintendo has gone with hardware (NES controller, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, portable game player, light gun, and yes even connectivity) and is going with hardware (touchscreen and hopefully more). I mean sometimes their innovation is incremental, but when they innovate, the other guys play catch up. Sony, IMO, is awful in the area of game hardware. I'm not really talking about graphical capabilities, but hardware capabilities and controllers. This generation disappointed me in hardware capabilities because it was mostly just an improvement in graphics, which is the only thing Sony really cares about game-wise. I'd rather have connectivity than nothing different at all (and Four Swords is excellent).

As a gamer, I don't really care about the multimedia features of Sony's hardware because it doesn't affect the games. But they completely lack any innovation game-wise and their controllers are terrible. First, they took the SNES controller, added flat handles, two more shoulder buttons, pushed the face buttons far away from each other, made the D-pad stiffer and segmented, and threw out the letter system for symbols. All bad ideas, IMO. Then, mid-life, they 'redesigned' the Playstation controller by slapping two of the loosest analog sticks ever between everything that was already there (aka at the harshest angle possible for your thumb at rest). Up was not up anymore, but the two stick idea was good. Then with Dual Shock 2 they tightened the sticks enough to feel tension and analoged the digital buttons. That was a harmless move, but also pointless (a rather flawed concept, IMO), basically rendering it the Dual Shock 1.1.

As for PSP, again the advantages are for consumers looking for multimedia features. For the gamer, you get nothing. Well, unless portability for the PlayStation brand is something, that's what you get. Innovation? No. Oh, and another horribly placed stick. This was all okay before the DS. Touchscreens were long overdue for game handhelds, and DS also has a mic and two screens. At worst, the mic and two screens are a gimmick for gamers (no way is touchscreen a gimmick IMO), but they still aren't as useless as Dual Shock 2's analog digital buttons. And Band of Brothers' use of the mic is anything but useless. For me, PSP is a step back for game handhelds other than being a 3D intense system.

Microsoft is almost a Sony copycat, but they threw in a hard drive which I think can actually be a fruitful idea for games. Nintendo proposed great ideas for re-writibility, and they could do that with a HD. Microsoft is also majorly online, which would give Nintendo the opportunity to finally give us online Mario Kart and Smash Bros. But their controllers are probably worse than Sony's, and the other stuff Nintendo could do themselves rather easily. In other words, no need to side with MS for a hard drive, then get a worse controller and no innovation.

Sticking Nintendo with Sony or Microsoft, to me, would be like locking them in a time loop with bad controllers. It would stifle their creativity, which is one of the best things about them. Nintendo made game hardware what it is today more than anyone else, and I am not content to let that end here.
 
I think the ps2 and the newer xbox controller are far better than the gamecube controller. I would rather have a more generic button layout (and useable d-pad!) that works well for every game.
 
GDJustin said:
Rumbling controllers, shoulder buttons... mic input (hey you pikachu)...
Sony's single innovation of dual analog has had much more impact on game design than any of those.

And as for Nintendo's "keep it simple" philosophy to hardware, I think it's a huge plus versus attempts at diluting the purpose of the hardware. DVD/CD playback--that's fine, but throwing in silly stuff like DVR, web browsing, or anything else that isn't made to make your couch-played games better is both unnecessary and possibly destructive. This generation we're already seeing some game shelves cluttered with "DVD games" boxed for PlayStation and Xbox. Adding crap like hard drives to consoles is another potential threat to the purity of console gaming, in more ways than one.

As long as Nintendo keeps making awesome hardware with a very specific purpose they'll continue to be an asset to the hardware industry.
 
the bad thing is, at least now they know where their target audience is (GC), if they go 3rd party they'll have to waste resources on porting games to different platforms.

anyways , it's not like xbox's ahead of GC in worldwide sales, so if nintendo needs to go 3rd party so does Microsoft,
 
Dragmire said:
As a gamer, I don't really care about the multimedia features of Sony's hardware because it doesn't affect the games. But they completely lack any innovation game-wise and their controllers are terrible. First, they took the SNES controller, added flat handles, two more shoulder buttons, pushed the face buttons far away from each other, made the D-pad stiffer and segmented, and threw out the letter system for symbols. All bad ideas, IMO. Then, mid-life, they 'redesigned' the Playstation controller by slapping two of the loosest analog sticks ever between everything that was already there (aka at the harshest angle possible for your thumb at rest). Up was not up anymore, but the two stick idea was good. Then with Dual Shock 2 they tightened the sticks enough to feel tension and analoged the digital buttons. That was a harmless move, but also pointless (a rather flawed concept, IMO), basically rendering it the Dual Shock 1.1.

I like Nintendo, but I just want you to know there's a shit ton of people who disagree with you about the controller. I am of the opinion that the Dual Shock 2 is leaps and bounds beyond the competitions controllers. Don't get me wrong, I like the Gamecube controller... but the PS2 Dual Shock is the only one with a competent D-Pad, is the only one with even placement of the analogs and the only one with what I like to call "symetrical" design; which is almost always the most intelligent and ergonomic way to design something.

Anyway, that's my opinion. As for "touch pads" being overdue in the industry, I think it's a nice thing that Nintendo has something different for the DS. But dear God, don't suggest it should be any sort of standard. That would be fucking hell. There's already enough issues I had to "get around" to love my DS, I don't want there to be such issues for my next gen controls thank you very much.

So, I've registered my disagreements with you. That's about it.
 
Amir0x said:
As for "touch pads" being overdue in the industry, I think it's a nice thing that Nintendo has something different for the DS. But dear God, don't suggest it should be any sort of standard.
Nintendo didn't invent this anyway. I know of one third party Genesis pad that was horrific for controlling normal games (just like the DS), and I wouldn't be surprised if more people tried it.
turbotouch.jpg


The touch screen may be fine for games specifically designed for it, but in no way should it replace an analog stick. If you need a irrefutable evidence to drive this point home go play Mario 64 DS.
 
MarkRyan said:
Nintendo didn't invent this anyway.

I'm well aware that they didn't invent it, but it takes a company like Nintendo with such major stock in the handheld industry to exploit the potential of such a control scheme. But I agree with you whole-heartedly, it would be horrible if it became some sort of standard.
 
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