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[HRK69]

it’s just a shift in how games are developed and distributed. I think of it as a natural evolution of gaming in a more scalable and accessible ecosystem

 

[EruditeHobo]

"Do you think PS6 will have a meaningful amount of exclusive/non-cross gen games?"

Who. Cares.

If you care about this... you shouldn't. It's never mattered less in console gaming than now.

It's going to be hilarious comparing the reaction to Sony's "cross-gen" vs how people respond to Switch 2. When do you think the first Switch 2 "exclusive" game will launch? Does anybody buying a Switch 2 care? No, they do not. No one is even really talking about it, that I can tell. You should ask yourself why.

Exclusives don't really mean shit anymore; ecosystem is the new exclusive.

it’s just a shift in how games are developed and distributed. I think of it as a natural evolution of gaming in a more scalable and accessible ecosystem

This is exactly 100% correct.

 

[Three]

This is what has been done for previous console generations, game sells isn't the lion share of the profit. It is the eco system = PSN subscribers and a cut of all games sold on the PSN store that makes Sony the most money.

It absolutely was in the past. The problem is that now there are multiple things destroying this business model and threatening it

a) moores law died. Meaning drops in hardware price later in the gen to start turning profits, even without software, died. You need to make more on software sales or other MAU metrics like subs and mtx
b) f2p and Gaas took off and game unit sales declined. You sell hardware at a loss and even then most users spend most of their time playing games they got free, buying DLC that hasn't even necessarily been bought from your store and playing it for 10+ years across gens.

These things have killed generations. They've killed the old model of trying to push generations and selling loss leader products.

Plus I never said they should cut the price of games, I think they should not have increased the price. But most games already have DLC should is how you get more money from the single player games.

Saying they sold too little due to price is the same as saying they should have cut the price to increase unit sales.

You take a hit with having PS5 exclusive games at launch but as people buy the console you make the money back in the long run by controlling the storefront.

See above, that's happening less and less. Taking a loss on the software too (by not selling more on bigger install bases) makes things worse or you either lower budgets of games that are "exclusive". Hence why Returnal was the exclusive and not GoW Ragnarök.

You need exclusive games to get people to quickly buy into the new console or else people will wait it out which is what happened to the PS5. I think the sells would have been bigger with more AAA PS5 exclusive games.

But again more AAA exclusive games would not have helped when you had a hardware shortage and in fact made games that were initially announced exclusive crossgen due to this hardware shortage lowering your installbase below original estimations. When those shortages were over you were in year 3 already and didn't have many crossgen games anyway.

 

[SweetTooth]

Here we go again...

PS6 is at least 3 years away

 

[samuelgregory]

This is why Sony looks at MAUs rather than an individual console's install base. The first half of a generation's install base isn't enough for sufficient software sales vs the cost of game development. The only way for Sony to continue to compete with PC and ensure proper 3rd party support and focus is to have a sufficiently large platform.

Handheld gaming is going to be a major factor in growing that platform moving forward. Total MAUs for consoles in this form factor are probably 130M maybe a bit more if Sony is able to wrestle some people from Xbox, but even then you're at most looking at TAM of 150M or so. Sony adds a handheld to that though and you could be looking at closer to 200M.

I can't help but wonder if PSVR2 had been supported on PS4 if it would have had more success as well. It'll be interesting to see if PSVR3 if it happens at all is tethered to the PS6. I think we can only imagine that it'll have PC support from the get go.

Tethering games and even hardware to other hardware simply doesn't make sense moving forward. It only limits your operating income and revenue.

Just look at Sony's peripheral sales increasing as they've grown their PC support. All without having to sell additional consoles at a loss. Every business group should have some level of autonomy to maximize sales.

I've said for a while I don't know why Sony doesn't put out a dual sense mini for people with smaller hands particularly children and a Xbox style controller for Xbox fans who want to move on from that ecosystem. They should also put out first party keyboard and mouse and ensure full KB/M support on console. They also need a more budget friendly headset. The Pulse 3D Audio headsets should have gotten a price drop when the Pulse Elites came out. In fact both lines are probably overpriced by about 25-50 dollars. It looks like they actually discontinued the Pulse 3D headset Spotify Premium PC. Part of all that means that Sony really needs to adopt Bluetooth rather than just wireless, but that means they need to adopt it for their console as well, but they want to block out other headsets... it's a bad strategy.

I have been mainly a PC gamer since about 2019. But I still got a PS5 near launch for Demon's Souls remake, Rachet and Clank Rift Apart, Last of Us part 2, and because I knew that other Sony exclusives I like would be coming in the future like more Spider-Man and Horizon. But I buy only exclusives on my PS5. All other games are on my PC. But now, Sony has made it pretty clear that basically every exclusive is only a timed exclusive. There are only a couple games that haven't come to PC yet, like Demon's Souls Remake, but just about everything else has come to PC. It takes a minimum of about a year for games to come to PC tho, and sometimes way longer. So now I feel like it'll be a harder decision if the next PlayStation will be worth it for exclusives alone or not. So I'm curious if others also have a PlayStation only for exclusives and if you'll be willing to wait it out next generation for those games to come to PC eventually instead.

 

[Fbh]

If things keep going this way, next gen could be the breaking point. Games are too expensive to make, studios are stretched thin, and we’re seeing more safe, less creative titles. The current model is unsustainable, and it won’t last much longer.

Yeah I think there are many things will continue affecting the console business and moving it away from the standard model:
- Diminishing returns in visuals + graphics no longer being as big of a selling point. Specially when combined with increased hardware costs
- Development cost that keep getting higher without the games actually selling more units
- Increased development costs that mean many devs will put out a single game on a normal generation
- New games and engines being pretty scaleable to a wide variety of hardware
- Console makers making a lot of momey through services (subscriptions, paid multiplayer, etc)
- The live service model benefiting from the games being available on as many platforms as possible while keeping people engaged with a single title for many years instead of having them chasing sequels
- The newfound popularity of handheld devices that will always have to deal with limited power
- etc

I think Ps6 and most future consoles will be less about exclusive games and more about offering a "premium" experience: Better resolution, better framerates, more ray tracing, higher settings, etc. But there will still be some exclusive games...just fewer of them every gen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I have been mainly a PC gamer since about 2019. But I still got a PS5 near launch for Demon's Souls remake, Rachet and Clank Rift Apart, Last of Us part 2, and because I knew that other Sony exclusives I like would be coming in the future like more Spider-Man and Horizon. But I buy only exclusives on my PS5. All other games are on my PC. But now, Sony has made it pretty clear that basically every exclusive is only a timed exclusive. There are only a couple games that haven't come to PC yet, like Demon's Souls Remake, but just about everything else has come to PC. It takes a minimum of about a year for games to come to PC tho, and sometimes way longer. So now I feel like it'll be a harder decision if the next PlayStation will be worth it for exclusives alone or not. So I'm curious if others also have a PlayStation only for exclusives and if you'll be willing to wait it out next generation for those games to come to PC eventually instead.

You don't think Sony has metrics on players like you?

 

[PeteBull]

This should be more accurate. Doesn't even include PSVR2 titles.

PS5 true exclusives. (Some may come to PC later)

Astro Bot
Astro's Playroom (Free with PS5)
Demon's Souls (Remake)
Destruction AllStars (Free with PS Plus)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Quantum Error (Announced to come to PC/Xbox)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (Announced for PC)
Metal Savior Black (Cancelled on PC a decade ago)
Neptunia ReVerse (Remake)
Rise of the Ronin
Shines Over: The Damned
Silent Hill: The Short Message (Free)
Stellar Blade
Sticks Aim Trainer

FF7 rebirth coming to pc in 2days so cant really count it as exclusive anymore, stellar blade comiing to pc in 2025 too so again, soon it wont be exclusive, u wont buy ps5/ps5pr0 for it if u know it will come to pc soon...
spidey2 coming to pc too

Actual games(not some tiny demos) that are true ps5 exclusives not announced on pc are so few even tho console is already over 4 years on the market:
Astro Bot
Destruction allstars(its terrible game, gaas, has terrible reviews so technically u count it but its basically concord w/o servers getting offline, thats how bad it is and so few players it has)
MSB is indie shooter with pc release date planned in 3 days, so cant count that either.
RotR- that one can be actually fully counted, proper ex.
SO:TD- not an ex, its on xbox series and even last gen xbox one
AH:TSM is like PT, 70-90min long demo w/o fighting.
SAT is indie, graphics wise even below most ps4 games, and it has "coming soon" on pc steam too...

So tldr, true ps5 exclusives are:
Demons Souls (remake but its such a high quality, and so much improvement over ps3 version that is fucked up tech wise, i will count it)
Rise of the Ronin
Astro Bot
And that is kinda it, we not gonna count demos like astro's playroom or SH demo, nor some indies that look 2gens old that no1 plays, wont count square's concord that no1 plays either.

Now question for myself and ppl who love playstation consoles/games, is ps5/ps5pr0 worth it for 3(!) exclusives, i can only answer myself, it is not, unfortunately, maybe by ps6, that will likely be backwards compatible, amount of exclusives gonna reach 10, so it will be worth it by then hopefully? Thats my pov at least.

 

[Spiral1407]

I'm all for cross gen considering how bad some of these current gen only games are in image quality and performance. Game design hasn't really changed since last gen, despite the hardware improvements. So I'd rather the take cross gen guarantee of 1440p60 instead of what we get today.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

These things have killed generations. They've killed the old model of trying to push generations and selling loss leader products.

Saying they sold too little due to price is the same as saying they should have cut the price to increase unit sales.

^No, its not. They didn't need to increase the price from $60 to $70. You have your mind made up on things and that's ok we can agree to disagree.

But the main point is if you compare the PS5 gen so far to the other PlayStation gens people would say it isn't has good and I believe one of the reasons was because of the cross gen games. Outside of faster load times we didn't get the same AAA output and generation defining games like we did for PS4.

My whole point is PS5 just feels like PS 4.5 instead of a whole new console gen.

 

[Three]

^No, its not. They didn't need to increase the price from $60 to $70. You have your mind made up on things and that's ok we can agree to disagree.

Then can you explain what you mean? "They didn't need to increase from 60 to 70" is like saying "they should have sold it at 60 instead of 70" . i.e decreased the price for unit sales. What would have this accomplished other than increased unit sales at the expense of revenue? How would it have helped the financials of going exclusive to a smaller install base?

 

[Magic Carpet]

So tldr, true ps5 exclusives are:
Demons Souls (remake but its such a high quality, and so much improvement over ps3 version that is fucked up tech wise, i will count it)
Rise of the Ronin
Astro Bot
And that is kinda it, we not gonna count demos like astro's playroom or SH demo, nor some indies that look 2gens old that no1 plays, wont count square's concord that no1 plays either.

Now question for myself and ppl who love playstation consoles/games, is ps5/ps5pr0 worth it for 3(!) exclusives, i can only answer myself, it is not, unfortunately, maybe by ps6, that will likely be backwards compatible, amount of exclusives gonna reach 10, so it will be worth it by then hopefully? Thats my pov at least.

I found the solution to play Astro Bot was to borrow a friends PS5.
I was able to play a game I don't think will come to PC.
I don't own the game but I got Trophies!

 

[Tg89]

It's going to be hilarious comparing the reaction to Sony's "cross-gen" vs how people respond to Switch 2. When do you think the first Switch 2 "exclusive" game will launch?

Nintendo will probably have a lot more exclusives tbh. Mobile tech has advanced a lot in the years since the Switch for there to be meaningful upgrades.

Nintendo is also a lot more self sustaining than Sony in the sense that they can sell hardware based entirely on the strength of their own software. Sony relies far more on 3rd parties.

I'd be shocked if we see anything flagship from Nintendo (Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda) that is cross platform. The only exception is MP4 which they've already promised on the Switch.

 

[lughnasadh123]

There's no way Nintendo is going to ignore their massive Sw1 install base so they'll do exactly what people complaining about Playstation did.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Nintendo will probably have a lot more exclusives tbh. Mobile tech has advanced a lot in the years since the Switch for there to be meaningful upgrades.

Nintendo is stuck more on exclusives... they operate in a different way than Sony, obviously, to the point where I'm not even sure how directly they are competing with one another.

But saying "they'll have more exclusives" doesn't answer my question... when will the first Switch 2 exclusive launch?

I'd be shocked if we see anything flagship from Nintendo (Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda) that is cross platform. The only exception is MP4 which they've already promised on the Switch.

This already applies to everything you've mentioned -- MK8, BOTW, 3D World were all released on multiple systems/generations, no? How is that not "cross-platform"?

So I don't know what you're talking about... this has clearly happened before and I guarantee you will happen again on Switch 2.

 

[Tg89]

Nintendo is stuck more on exclusives... they operate in a different way than Sony, obviously, to the point where I'm not even sure how directly they are competing with one another.

But saying "they'll have more exclusives" doesn't answer my question... when will the first Switch 2 exclusive launch?



This already applies to everything you've mentioned -- MK8, BOTW, 3D World were all released on multiple systems/generations, no? How is that not "cross-platform"?

So I don't know what you're talking about... this has clearly happened before and I guarantee you will happen again on Switch 2.

MK9 will be a day one exclusive on Switch 2. No doubt about it.

MK8, BOTW, 3D World, there's lots of reasons we got these as ports. Primarily that the Wii U was a failure, Switch wasn't much of a bump in specs, to jumpstart software on a new system where they didn't have normal lead time as they had to pivot from the Switch. They've had plenty of time to develop games this time around and they want to move a ton of units this year, they have little incentive to have anything be cross platform.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

This is why the new XBOX is super intriguing if it genuinely is an XBOX + PC in one with PC Storefronts. Iterative hardware would make more sense this way also. Any new XBOX would be at minimum spec a new XBOX and then as much power as you want at different price points.

 

[Three]

MK9 will be a day one exclusive on Switch 2. No doubt about it.

No doubt? I'm not even sure that is MK9 and not an update to MK8. I have no idea at this point.

 

[Tg89]

No doubt? I'm not even sure that is MK9 and not an update to MK8. I have no idea at this point.

No doubt because it makes no business sense to do. Not because I've spent days analyzing 10 seconds of not even direct, compressed footage and concluded that it's the same game.

 

[Calverz]

"PS5 was off to a slow start cause of COVID so we got an extended period of cross gen". "Cross gen is holding the PS5 back, PS6 will be better" etc.

Honestly anyone who said that needs their head checked. Jimbo did a complete 180 on the whole generations thing. Covid was probably used as an excuse for it but we all know it’s money.

 

[cireza]

I don't know, they fire people working on software pretty easily.

These people need to have other things to do because we don't need any mid-gen refresh.

What we need are ambitious games that tap into the power of the current consoles, for real. Except they aren't exactly coming. All games that could run on PS4 have no reason to not be on it.

There are barely any game that justify PS5 and Series, not even talking about PS5 Pro lol.

Step up your game, developers, or admit that current gen is useless. The only real progress we made is the SSD, that's it. And it wasn't even a novelty, we simply got back something that was lost.

In which case, manufacturers should stop releasing hardware like, at all, until we reach some real limits and can make a meaningful step forward. In the meantime, everything will only be pointless iterations.

 

[Crayon]

A dark future where people upgrade hardware if they want more performance. The horror.

 

[Miles708]

You'll be lucky if there aren't PS4 versions of those games.

You all wanted half-gen refreshes for some reason, well you got half baked gens too with it. Enjoy now

 

[Represent.]

Delusional gamers who believe every piece of corporate drivel these old fucks feed them. Same group who believed Phil SpendSir when he said only 4 games would be ported.

 

[EruditeHobo]

...they have little incentive to have anything be cross platform.

The incentive is incredibly obvious... there are 100 million Switches out there right now ready to buy an MK9 update/upgrade. And there will be millions and millions of them that don't jump on a 350-400 dollar Switch 2 right away, but are happy to buy a game for 60 bucks. Twilight Princess was cross platform too, right? So the "big titles" do get the 2-system treatment, don't they. So... what you said is not true.

Of course there are "reasons" why it happens. I'm sure WiiU being a joke is a big part of those decisions... but those reasons are in service of my point, since it seems to me there remain plenty of reasons Switch 2 "exclusives" won't exist near launch and maybe not for a long time.

Check back in April, I guess? We'll see. I could be wrong. I'm not, but I could be.

 

[Tg89]

The incentive is very obvious... there are 100 million Switches out there right now ready for a MK9 update/upgrade.

There's no reason for MK9 to be exclusive at all. It certainly doesn't look exclusive, does it? That's by far the biggest clue we've got right now. So see you back in April when I'm right.

Lol, right. Doesn't look exclusive based on 5 seconds of compressed footage with absolutely no mention of what the game actually is.

It's probably the most reliable IP any of the manufacturers have in terms of selling hardware, they're going to use it to do so.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Again... we'll see!

 

[Edgelord79]

I think as console prices rise, more people will hold on to previous gen consoles longer.

Thus longer cross-gen releases.

 

[EruditeHobo]

I think as console prices rise, more people will hold on to previous gen consoles longer.

Thus longer cross-gen releases.

It's incredibly obvious that this is the new normal.

 

[poppabk]

Look at how profits took a nose dive at the beginning of every generation until this covid extended cross-gen one. Long cross-gen is here to stay.

 

[ProtoByte]

If Sony is smart, they will realise that they must return to their previous model. The games will be less exciting, sell less, and the console will sell at a slower rate due to cross gen. Ala Horizon.

 

[RoboFu]

Look at how profits took a nose dive at the beginning of every generation until this covid extended cross-gen one. Long cross-gen is here to stay.

PS5 heading down I see.