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[-Ryn]

I don't imply, I state. I never stated anything about wanting an apology. I'm explaining to those who somehow missed all of high school (If you're American) where police/American racial prejudice "comes from" as in it was always here. The country was literally build on it and it's ingrained into American life/culture.

The idea that oh civil rights happened 50 years ago, now everything is equal! Is the delusion of idiots who feign intelligence (You know them as republicans). That's not how it works/worked/will ever work. Much like you can't fix 20 years of political fuckery in 8, you can't undo 280+ years of oppression/marginalization/fucketry in 50 years. It'll take just as long to undo it as it did to fuck it all up. Doubly so when you realize that during that entire time, black people in the US entered the race 50 laps behind white people. It has always been an utterly dumb, romanticized notion that 50 years of progress totes makes up for 250+ years of fuckery and it's a notion that people of privileged position tout like a platinum trumpet when they feel uncomfortable or "tried" about talking about race in the US.

And it's not like the day those Civil Rights laws were passed everything was peachy afterwards. It's not like one day before the laws were passed we had colored signs, lynchings, beatings, waterhosing, rape, murder, mass discrimination. Then the day after said laws were passed, we all held hands and sang kumba-fucking-ya and shit and everyone who was racist suddenly weren't and no longer acted in a way to continue to marginalize blacks.

Or to take it a step back further. It's not like the day after slavery was abolished, it was all peaches and roses and blacks and whites were walking down the street with each other holding hands, singing "good morning" and clicking their heels, sitting in classrooms with each other getting the same quality education as one another, working the same jobs for the same pay.

People tend to forget that slaves weren't allowed to read/be taught how to read and write nor did they earn wages. So when slavery ended...what do people think happened? Blacks threw up their caps and went out and bought land and boom equality? That the south was like "well we lost, let's build them schools and help them be equal to us!"

I didn't mean that as you were implying you wanted an apology. It was just an example.
As for the rest, I appreciate the explanation. My apologies for misinterpreting your intent.

Yes it takes time to heal from things.
My only point is that it isn't something that should be used against people living now. As a history lesson to learn from sure. However grudges carried across generations won't help anyone (which I know you weren't implying or stating).

 

[Shogmaster]

You're seeing a handful of bad apples characterize an entire group. I think your premise is wrong.

Fuck that noise. It's institutional. Anyone argues otherwise is willfully blind.

Racism in America is systemic, and institutional. Face the damn facts.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

What you're seeing is a symptom of a society that has never valued black lives. Cops are your regular every day Americans. It's not a cop problem, it's am American problem.

 

[2San]

What you're seeing is a symptom of a society that has never valued black lives. Cops are your regular every day Americans. It's not a cop problem, it's am American problem.

Sure, but if you are unable to deal with the root of the issue. You deal with the symptoms, because a lot of people are getting screwed over because of the symptoms.

 

[Shogmaster]

What you're seeing is a symptom of a society that has never valued black lives. Cops are your regular every day Americans. It's not a cop problem, it's am American problem.

Definitely. I say this as an Asian man who 30 years ago when I came to this country had exact opposite view. 30 years of observations living in all parts of this country has taught me otherwise.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

Well what is supposed to be done about the past?
The newer generations are not responsible for the actions of past generations. Things have only been getting progressively better. So what is left to be done aside from continuing to better ourselves? An apology? From who?

Spoiler

Not sure if this is what you were implying so correct me if I'm wrong.

They're not directly responsible, but to say we all don't have a duty to correct the wrongs of the past is ludicrous

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Sure, but if you are unable to deal with the root of the issue. You deal with the symptoms, because a lot of people are getting screwed over because of the symptoms.

Explain what you mean.

They're not directly responsible, but to say we all don't have a duty to correct the wrongs of the past is ludicrous

It's the argument of an extremely apathetic man who places more value on his uncomfortability than those who are being oppressed.

 

[Infinite]

I didn't mean that as you were implying you wanted an apology. It was just an example.
As for the rest, I appreciate the explanation. My apologies for misinterpreting your intent.

Yes it takes time to heal from things.
My only point is that it isn't something that should be used against people living now. As a history lesson to learn from sure. However grudges carried across generations won't help anyone (which I know you weren't implying or stating).

Nope, there is a duty today for us to work towards correcting for the disenfranchise because it's genuinely the right thing to do. Not doing anything and saying what you are saying above is basically the same as saying "well idgaf cause I got mine go get yours" because it's not like no one is benefiting from these systems that marginalized others .

 

[Arrowgigantic]

It comes from police work being such a dangerous job due to every arrest situation potentially being a gun situation. Therefore, most people don't want to be police. That leads to the people who do want to be police being partially composed of dickheads who like the idea of carrying a gun because you have to. This kind of person will no doubt have other personality flaws, which would often include racism and other forms of abject ignorance.

The only solution is for the country to disarm, but we have a gun manufacturing industry who wouldn't like that, so we have the NRA and their many dupes who think guns have more upside than downside.

 

[Infinite]

It comes from police work being such a dangerous job due to every arrest situation potentially being a gun situation. Therefore, most people don't want to be police. That leads to the people who do want to be police being partially composed of dickheads who like the idea of carrying a gun because you have to. This kind of person will no doubt have other personality flaws, which would often include racism and other forms of abject ignorance.

The only solution is for the country to disarm, but we have a gun manufacturing industry who wouldn't like that, so we have the NRA and their many dupes who think guns have more upside than downside.

That's not how it works at all. Being a police officer in this country is pretty much a golden ticket to having a secure job and a decent life if you didn't really go to college. It's the best paying city job in NYC for example. Doing shit like paid detail and overtime you can make upwards of up too 100k a year. People are lining up to be officers. Read the rest of the thread to figure out where the problem really stems from.

 

[genjiZERO]

The US is a country founded upon racism - it required both genocide of the indigenous population and slave labor as the backbone of its economy. Even to this day, politics, particularly in the South are designed to protect perceived White interests. I don't find it surprising that institutional racism is so thoroughly ingrained.

 

[Mudcrab]

The US is a country founded upon racism - it required both genocide of the indigenous population and slave labor as the backbone of its economy. Even to this day, politics, particularly in the South are designed to protect perceived White interests. I don't find it surprising that institutional racism is so thoroughly ingrained.

If you think institutional racism and racism in politics is particular to the South you haven't been paying attention. It is pervasive throughout the US. There is no escape.

 

[Infinite]

If you think institutional racism and racism in politics is particular to the South you haven't been paying attention. It is pervasive throughout the US. There is no escape.

He didn't say otherwise

 

[genjiZERO]

If you think institutional racism and racism in politics is particular to the South you haven't been paying attention. It is pervasive throughout the US. There is no escape.

Oh I agree. I'm saying both are bad, but the level of bad is worse in the South.

 

[Red]

It comes from a worldview that is governed by statistics, but only cherry-picked statistics that support a notion that's been cemented into culture by gossip, news, and media over decades. It comes from a pervasive lack of critical thinking skills in law enforcement, so that when a cop hears "the majority of people in prison are black," he thinks it's because black people have a natural tendency to be criminals, not because of any of the socioeconomic factors that have brought us here after a series of unfair years. He can't sort that out. He doesn't know there is anything to sort. And his superior, with the same mental limitations and trained narrow mindedness, will reinforce that idea. It goes all the way up and all the way down. Statistics out of context and cherry-picked headlines, swept up by a lack of critical thinking.

Is it conceivable that a young black man, born and raised in a ghetto, would become a cop? Is it conceivable the force would accept him? Is it conceivable that this would happen often enough that their involvement would be able to dispel myths about African American behavior? Maybe it is my limited experience, but too many people I know think "young black man" and "ghetto" are redundant. The assumption is that if a black person exists, there is an overwhelming chance he is from a bad area and he will make bad choices. It's so pervasive that it is impossible to counteract. If you poke a hole in the membrane, there is a network of fibers around it that will reinforce it and it will self-heal. Result, there is nothing you can say to convince them otherwise.

What develops from this is a racialized law enforcement. In a culture that ties identity so inextricably to race, tension and conflict is bound to arise. In my experience, there is a belief in law enforcement that white people are to be protected, and black people are what they must be protected against. It makes no sense, but there it is.

Intellectuals are seen as opponents to those who "uphold law," because it isn't simply that critical thinking is lacking in law enforcement but that it is a weakness that must be driven out. He is an exaggerated example, but I think it is representative: if a black man with a record, someone who has previously robbed, is seen "acting suspiciously" at a store by a police officer involved with his previous arrest, it is easier to kill him and prevent a future robbery than permit the risk that he might rob again. The risk is mitigated. It becomes 0. None of the extenuating circumstances are relevant, and critical thinking only gets in the way of practical work, of doing the job. Extend that suspicion against all black men.

Most terrible is the public image does not match their strategy behind the scenes, and the appearance of social concern and an understanding of the problem on law enforcement's public face is very often opposed to what they believe and how they act in private. It is something they are required to do, as to not upset them. Like telling a patient you're treating his cancer, but not mentioning the chemo isn't real.

 

[kamorra]

oh there are issues with immigrants in Europe being disenfranchised as well. Europe is also way more likely to pass crazy legislation. Flare ups might be less but let's pretend it doesn't exist. London and Paris riots come to mind...

Not once in my post did I tried to pretend that it doesn't exist. I'm living in a European country as a foreigner.
I know you like to defend the US but there is nothing to gain by doing this in this case.

 

[Aiustis]

Watch Birth of a Nation.

 

[blurgenstein]

Black people here in the US are disproportionately poor, and being poor leads to crime etc. Not saying the police aren't racist, but they deal with a lot of poor people, and a lot of poor people are black.

 

[Newt]

Black people here in the US are disproportionately poor, and being poor leads to crime etc. Not saying the police aren't racist, but they deal with a lot of poor people, and a lot of poor people are black.

Yeah, I agree with this. Police probably deal with a large amount of black criminals, making them biased against the innocent members of society.

 

[Ikael]

The more I see racial clashes in the US, the more I believe that racial prejudice is born out of entirely non-racial factors, more of a consequence than an cause itself.

- Bad training + armed popullace + lack of accountability that allows police to legally employ a huge amount of violence with no repercussions => Non-racial set of circumstances that disproportionately affects (and ends up killing) minorities

- Sparse urbanism with focus in car transportation that breeds isolation, coupled with heavy economic zoning property laws and thus, encouraging ghetto building and facilitating agressive gentrification => Non-racial law that disproportionately affects minorities

- Lack of social mobility ensures that groups that are poor, stay poor => Non racial socieconomic factor that disproportionately affects minorities of non-affluent backgrounds

- Extremely repressive "though on crime" laws imprissions huge swath of the popullation => non racial law that disproportionately affects minorities, which tends to be the main providers of crime-prone demographics irregardless of their race (male teenagers of lower income)

And so on, and on, and on. The American public tries then to rationalize the struggle of their minorities trought racial narratives, either of white privilege or black pathology (or a variant / combination of them), correlating class and social problems with race, and equating class with ethnicity.

Mmhm.

"Police racial prejudice" is just part of larger societal prejudices; it isn't unique to (and I'm not even sure it's exceptional in) police. And even where individual police officers are not themselves racist, the incentives built into the system ensures that people simply acting in their own best interest will result in the sort of racial disparities we see. They don't need to be motivated by racism for racist outcomes to be the result.

We've been reading "Racism without racists" recently, huh?

 

[Red]

Yeah, I agree with this. Police probably deal with a large amount of black criminals, making them biased against the innocent members of society.

Circular logic.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Black people here in the US are disproportionately poor, and being poor leads to crime etc. Not saying the police aren't racist, but they deal with a lot of poor people, and a lot of poor people are black.

Yeah, I agree with this. Police probably deal with a large amount of black criminals, making them biased against the innocent members of society.

Why do you think blacks are disproportionately poor?

 

[Pyrrhus]

OP, forgive the wall of text but I kind of got on a rant. As a way of bringing it home to you, I would point out that this is the fate a lot your countrymen fell into when they left Ireland and came here during the Famine.

You'll notice people usually say that the South is the most racist part of the country. People also usually say that the South is the poorest and least educated part of the country. The two are linked and not by accident. The elites in this nation (and most places that used to be colonies) have set poor white people against black people and the native population with this fallacy of racial superiority for centuries in order to distract them and keep them from joining with people who would otherwise be their natural allies against a grasping, tyrannical upper class.

In antebellum times, a lot of white folks, particularly in the South, lived nearly as badly and in some cases even worse than slaves. In some cases, literal starvation situations where people would eat boiled shoe leather and dirt and whatever else when their subsistence farm's crop failed. These people were called white trash then just as they are now. But they were fed this bogus idea that at least they were free, white men. "Never mind that you have no real opportunities for advancement or improvement, never mind that you live in a shotgun shack with a dirt floor and can't properly feed, or clothe, or educate your kids, never mind that you will die young and physically broken after a life of menial labor for your betters. At least you're white and nobody can take that away from you." That was the thinking, anyway.

So these white people were set a half rung higher on the social ladder than black people for the arbitrary and unearned distinction of skin color, but they were kept mean and hungry and afraid that the black people just below them were going to rise up and take what little they had. They were also fed the lie that with enough work, they too would rise up to the level of their social betters and have the security and luxuries they enjoyed. This caused poor whites to fight to the death to perpetuate the existing inequalities they would in truth never benefit from. Any crimes or social disruptions between white and black people that happened as a result of lack of opportunities or the necessities of life or a lifetime of degradation were explained away as the end result race mixing or the natural savagery of the black race.

And generations of this garbage seeped into our bones, societally speaking. We're living with the continued effects of this apartheid system even after the system itself is technically dead. It's why segregationist dirt farmer fucks fought so hard to keep black people from drinking from the same water fountains or pissing in the same toilets as them in the '50s and '60s. It's why today the Tea Party, directed from the shadows by the Koch brothers and their ilk, rabble rouses and elects provincial idiots to high office to do nothing more than be obstructionist and sabotage the economy just so it happens on a black man's watch.

Meanwhile the middle class that these Tea Partiers generally are a part of continues to be dismantled by these same elected officials serving their true masters. The social programs that help rural people, regardless of color, get the medical care and education they need to survive and rise out of poverty and develop their communities are cut under the guise of "not subsidizing the lives of welfare queens." Both this cycle of privation and control and the lie of racial superiority perpetuate. The one relies on the other. The rich and powerful keep the teeming masses hungry, afraid and at each others throats. People are so invested in the lie that they can't even admit to themselves that it's false and that they're being used. That was America in 1850 and that is America in 2014.

This is very oversimplified and doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story (I don't presume to speak on black folks' experiences), but at least in my experience and understanding, it explains why white folks in America have the anxieties, fears, and hatreds they do and why things like this rash of homicides by police officers happens and goes unpunished. Fear and strife as a product of institutional racism enacted for the financial benefit of the ruling class.

 

[blurgenstein]

Why do you think blacks are disproportionately poor?

OP didn't ask why black people in the US are disproportionately poor, he asked why police can be brutal to black people. I answered that question.

I honestly don't know why black people are, overall, poorer than white or asian folks. A shit ton of reasons I'd imagine, mostly thanks to old, old habits and prejudices from white people.

 

[-Ryn]

They're not directly responsible, but to say we all don't have a duty to correct the wrongs of the past is ludicrous

The duty we have is to learn from their mistakes.
It's our job to better ourselves as people so that the wrongs of the past don't become the wrongs of the future.

Nope, there is a duty today for us to work towards correcting for the disenfranchise because it's genuinely the right thing to do. Not doing anything and saying what you are saying above is basically the same as saying "well idgaf cause I got mine go get yours" because it's not like no one is benefiting from these systems that marginalized others .

I am saying that we can only better ourselves. What will holding on to the past do for anyone? We should learn from history and instead of calling everyone racist, try to just help each other. What happened 200 years ago should not be affecting us now. Especially not when everyone that could've experienced those problems is already dead.

It's the argument of an extremely apathetic man who places more value on his uncomfortability than those who are being oppressed.

Excuse me?
Get out of here with this apathetic bullshit.
I say the newer generation isn't responsible because it's NOT. Holding a grudge across generations doesn't do jack shit to fix the problem. I hate racism as much as any of you and I am not so delusional as to think it doesn't exist, but this "us vs them" mentality won't solve any problems. Moving past what happened in the past and trying to work for a better future will. I don't give 2 shits if you are black, white, asian, hispanic, or BLUE. We are all human and this world is already crazy enough without stupid bias like racism shitting it up.

 

[Espada]

Oh I agree. I'm saying both are bad, but the level of bad is worse in the South.

Ehh, I'd say it's more obvious in the South. I used to think the same thing as you, but after living in Mississippi and Alabama (and comparing to back home in the northeast) it's just more blatant.

When that report came out that NYC's school system is among the most segregated in the country, I was not surprised in the least. Same goes for the attitudes expressed by that lady in Cheektowaga, NY. Racism up here is just under the surface here.

I really have to agree with everyone who said that the source is our country's history. Founded in racism, fueled by it, and still struggling with it to this day. The Civil Rights movement was not that long ago.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

The duty we have is to learn from their mistakes.
It's our job to better ourselves as people so that the wrongs of the past don't become the wrongs of the future.


I am saying that we can only better ourselves. What will holding on to the past do for anyone? We should learn from history and instead of calling everyone racist, try to just help each other. What happened 200 years ago should not be affecting us now. Especially not when everyone that could've experienced those problems is already dead.


Excuse me?
Get out of here with this apathetic bullshit.
I say the newer generation isn't responsible because it's NOT. Holding a grudge across generations doesn't do jack shit to fix the problem. I hate racism as much as any of you and I am not so delusional as to think it doesn't exist, but this "us vs them" mentality won't solve any problems. Moving past what happened in the past and trying to work for a better future will. I don't give 2 shits if you are black, white, asian, hispanic, or BLUE. We are all human and this world is already crazy enough without stupid bias like racism shitting it up.

Learning is great but where is the action

 

[Kite]

The way you euro feel about gypsies sounds similar to how some Americans feel about blacks and a few other minorities, not sure why it's so puzzling. Ya'll aren't exactly pure in this regard.

 

[MIMIC]

Blacks were slaves in America for almost 250 years.

They've been free for only 150 years.

Think about that.

And not only that but the Civil Rights movement was just 50 years ago. My mom is from Birmingham and vividly remembers being sprayed with water hoses as a young girl. Relatively speaking, it wasn't that long ago. The remnants of those days still linger.

It's almost like the country was scribbled on by a permanent marker. And since we couldn't just throw the country away and get a new one, we're still trying to clean up the one we have. We're still scrubbing away, but some stains never completely go away.

 

[Reflex]

Police forces in America were created to protect property, not people. That's why they behave like privatized militaries. Firefighters used to act like that as well but were forced to change. The police have changed in theory, but in reality are still operating as if they're in a world that no longer exists. Now they openly claim to represent business owners (while murdering their customers ironically). They're essentially unchanged since the days of slavery and are still operating on stats that are serially correlated with slavery. When they point to stats remember that there is no clean data because they've been in a feedback loop since the 1800s. They make decisions today based on observations of the past and then they use the outcome again in the future without ever letting go of the distant past. If you did that in a freshman stats class you would fail.

There are many more issues at play including how they recruit, codes of conduct, and most importantly incestuous relationships with the media and government officials.

 

[PhantomHound]

It's baffling from an outsider looking in and seeing these cases constantly pop up against minorities and not only that, but the lack of surprise at the outcomes of the cases

I mean, I'm a white guy from Ireland and I'm not going to pretend racism doesn't exist here, but stuff like this, with police, would never happen to minorities in my town here. It's a disgusting practice and the police there seem to be protected

What is going on over there?

Ireland only has a black population of 1.42% So maybe that's why you don't see incidents.

 

[Infinite]

The duty we have is to learn from their mistakes.
It's our job to better ourselves as people so that the wrongs of the past don't become the wrongs of the future.


I am saying that we can only better ourselves. What will holding on to the past do for anyone? We should learn from history and instead of calling everyone racist, try to just help each other. What happened 200 years ago should not be affecting us now. Especially not when everyone that could've experienced those problems is already dead.


Excuse me?
Get out of here with this apathetic bullshit.
I say the newer generation isn't responsible because it's NOT. Holding a grudge across generations doesn't do jack shit to fix the problem. I hate racism as much as any of you and I am not so delusional as to think it doesn't exist, but this "us vs them" mentality won't solve any problems. Moving past what happened in the past and trying to work for a better future will. I don't give 2 shits if you are black, white, asian, hispanic, or BLUE. We are all human and this world is already crazy enough without stupid bias like racism shitting it up.

You don't get it. Inaction is the same is upholding these structures. In recent years our nation has created additional systems that further expand upon the core issue. I'm no talking fucking 200 years ago I'm talking about the war on drugs and mass incarcerations that is going on right now. You have to understand the context in which these systems are allowed to exist. You have to understand the mentality that birthed it. You have to know the why and how. You cannot detach yourself from it if you call yourself an American. You have claim responsible for what has happened then and what is happening now because it's STILL effecting everyone right now.

 

[.GqueB.]

OP didn't ask why black people in the US are disproportionately poor, he asked why police can be brutal to black people. I answered that question.

I honestly don't know why black people are, overall, poorer than white or asian folks. A shit ton of reasons I'd imagine, mostly thanks to old, old habits and prejudices from white people.

I really do think this is the main issue. It's a mixture of personal experiences and experiences they've heard about from other cops. From there they concoct their own opinions which, as a result of said experiences, tend to be pretty shite and lead to the racial prejudice the OP is talking about.

It's something we have to very very slowly grow out of. It's something that's already happening. Just not all that fast and in a not so obvious way. Most we can do is continue fucking interracially so we get to the point where no one knows who's who.

 

[Mumei]

We've been reading "Racism without racists" recently, huh?

I read it two years ago.

Spoiler

I was flipping through it last night, but that was more inspired by The New Jim Crow, I think

 

[Chie Satonaka]

How can you say isolated cases with a straight face? This is so ridiculous.

What you're seeing is the exact reason that meaningful police and system reform will never take place on a massive scale.

Even if it's a minority opinion on NeoGAF, it's not so much so in the mainstream.

But, you know, whatever. It's just black people. Stop listening to rap music. Or something.

 

[-Ryn]

Learning is great but where is the action

Well the action so far has seemingly been rioting and protests. That doesn't do anything to fix the problem though. It just tells everyone your not happy about something. Everyone already knows that. Hell most people will probably agree that racism is bad.

Come up with solutions to the problem that attack it at its core and work to make it a reality.

You don't get it. Inaction is the same is upholding these structures. In recent years our nation has created additional systems that further expand upon the core issue. I'm no talking fucking 200 years ago I'm talking about the war on drugs and mass incarcerations that is going on right now. You have to understand the context in which these systems are allowed to exist. You have to understand the mentality that birthed it. You have to know the why and how. You cannot detach yourself from it if you call yourself an American. You have claim responsible for what has happened then and what is happening now because it's STILL effecting everyone right now.

I'm not saying we should just do nothing.
What I'm saying is that what is being done (e.g. calling police racist, rioting, protesting on a highway) won't fix anything. If things need to be changed it needs to be changed as a system. If Police are making more arrests on a certain ethnicity than another, look into why it is happening and what allows it to happen. Come up with solutions to the problem instead of just shouting about how terrible it is. Drugs for instance, is more than just a racial problem. We shouldn't be incarcerating people for things like Marrijuana or even LSD. That wastes space in prisons and also wastes resources for offenses that really shouldn't be an issue. Legalizing certain drugs or at least decriminalizing them would put a major dent in mass arrests.

These problem don't just affect black people and there's more to the problem than just racism. Fix the problems of the system themselves before tackling the problems created by the system.

 

[akira28]

Yeah, I agree with this. Police probably deal with a large amount of black criminals, making them biased against the innocent members of society.

what happens is the police departments know where their bread is buttered. Results. Squeeze the lower class neighborhoods for criminal infractions and get reliable hits. Low rent apartments with no security, known drug trade, occasional property crime, police will scoop up all low hanging fruit. They're not interested in being fair, or even in policing everyone. If you look a certain way, act normal, and don't attract attention you can get away with just about anything. Of course if you're black, your skin color automatically draws that attention. Not because you're more likely to give them a hit on their statistical chart of being a criminal, but because you will not fight back. You're a quick procedure, a number with a face and an address, not a person, but a commodity, a report, not a citizen, but proof of an officer doing their job. And sometimes, if enough of you are passed through, they might get someone on a drug charge, or an expired license or a warrant for unpaid parking tickets or something. But they will go through so many more of you than they will anyone else, the statistics show. All because they're there policing you, not America, not their town, or their county, but you.

So sure, I'll buy that they deal with so many black criminals that they're biased against innocent black people as well. but there's a heck of a reason why they deal with so many black criminals. They're basically collecting us like freaking seashells. You don't even necessarily need to be a criminal, but you might end up one. They're just sifting through sand for whatever they can find.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It's baffling from an outsider looking in and seeing these cases constantly pop up against minorities and not only that, but the lack of surprise at the outcomes of the cases

I mean, I'm a white guy from Ireland and I'm not going to pretend racism doesn't exist here, but stuff like this, with police, would never happen to minorities in my town here. It's a disgusting practice and the police there seem to be protected

What is going on over there?

I believe these will help you.

http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/far-...ite-privilege-in-the-criminal-justice-system/

http://www.timwise.org/2014/11/repetitive-motion-disorder-black-reality-and-white-denial-in-america/

They're both worth your time.

 

[Infinite]

Well the action so far has seemingly been rioting and protests. That doesn't do anything to fix the problem though. It just tells everyone your not happy about something. Everyone already knows that. Hell most people will probably agree that racism is bad.

Come up with solutions to the problem that attack it at its core and work to make it a reality.


I'm not saying we should just do nothing.
What I'm saying is that what is being done (e.g. calling police racist, rioting, protesting on a highway) won't fix anything. If things need to be changed it needs to be changed as a system. If Police are making more arrests on a certain ethnicity than another, look into why it is happening and what allows it to happen. Come up with solutions to the problem instead of just shouting about how terrible it is. Drugs for instance, is more than just a racial problem. We shouldn't be incarcerating people for things like Marrijuana or even LSD. That wastes space in prisons and also wastes resources for offenses that really shouldn't be an issue. Legalizing certain drugs or at least decriminalizing them would put a major dent in mass arrests.

These problem don't just affect black people and there's more to the problem than just racism. Fix the problems of the system themselves before tackling the problems created by the system.

You're literally all over the place and you honestly seem in over your head here.

It is always appropriate to discuss solutions but without the affected institutions willing to listen to those solutions and put them into place, then what's the point?

These protests aren't about the lack of solutions, but the unwillingness to listen to the affected people from those in power. That's the whole fucking point of protests. It's about sending a message to get others to listen and understand your plights who wouldn't otherwise. We are not even at the point where we can discuss solution because most people don't actually acknowledge the problem or what's going on. Holding it against the affected people for coming up with solutions is a silencing tactic and bullshit. First of all, there are solutions but you wouldn't know them because you clearly aren't listening. These solutions are not perfect but that is not the point, the point is that these concerns have been expressed but they have not been heard for far too long. Coming into this thread with the presumption that there's a single solution to all this and if there isn't it isn't worth being discussed is bullshit. You're choosing to put your fingers in your ears. Secondly, they themselves don't hold the keys to implementing this solution being the literal minority. It is up to the majority to accomplish this. Protest is a very powerful tool in effecting change and has been for this country's entire history. Fall back, man.

 

[-Ryn]

You're literally all over the place and you honestly seem in over your head here.

It is always appropriate to discuss solutions but without the affected institutions willing to listen to those solutions and put them into place, then what's the point?

These protests aren't about the lack of solutions, but the unwillingness to listen to the affected people from those in power. That's the whole fucking point of protests. It's about sending a message to get others to listen and understand your plights who wouldn't otherwise. We are not even at the point where we can discuss solution because most people don't actually acknowledge the problem or what's going on. Holding it against the affected people for coming up with solutions is a silencing tactic and bullshit. First of all, there are solutions but you wouldn't know them because you clearly aren't listening. These solutions are not perfect but that is not the point, the point is that these concerns have been expressed but they have not been heard for far too long. Coming into this thread with the presumption that there's a single solution to all this and if there isn't it isn't worth being discussed is bullshit. You're choosing to put your fingers in your ears. Secondly, they themselves don't hold the keys to implementing this solution being the literal minority. It is up to the majority to accomplish this. Protest is a very powerful tool in effecting change and has been for this country's entire history. Fall back, man.

First off, what message are these protests trying to convey? All I've seen are people screaming about how racist cops are and that this Wilson guy is a horrible person. I've seen multiple videos of protesters saying he should be killed because of it. I can almost guarantee if the guy the cop killed was white, there would not be this kind of uproar. Do people think that if the guy wasn't black the cop wouldn't have shot him?

Second, I didn't say anywhere that people should either come up with solutions or shut up. Getting the message out that you think something is wrong is good. However if that's ALL YOU DO then you aren't solving anything.

I didn't come into this thread with some presumption that there is a single solution. However I haven't seen anything other than people talking about how racist people are. I wanted to know if anybody had anything to actually offer to solve the problem.

What solutions are being put forth?
I WANT to hear them. Don't give me this bullshit about not listening. It's not just black people who have a problem with this. Racism is pretty much universally looked down upon (in the US and other countries) these days.

You say what's the point of coming up with solutions? Well then what the hell is the point of protesting how much it sucks? If you aren't willing to try to fix the problem, all you're doing is screaming that something is bad. We KNOW it's bad. Especially with the internet, it is very easy to get a message out. However now we need to fix the problem. Why are there more black people being arrested? Why are there more black people in poverty ? How can we fix these issues? If you feel you can't fix them because you're black, then try to help.

A protest should have a point and a solution.
Saying "racism is bad" isn't a solution.

 

[Infinite]

Not going to bother.

 

[-Ryn]

Not going to bother.

So you think racism is a big enough problem to complain about but not big enough to try and come up with a solution?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

It's baffling from an outsider looking in and seeing these cases constantly pop up against minorities and not only that, but the lack of surprise at the outcomes of the cases

I mean, I'm a white guy from Ireland and I'm not going to pretend racism doesn't exist here, but stuff like this, with police, would never happen to minorities in my town here. It's a disgusting practice and the police there seem to be protected

What is going on over there?

It's not just racism, it's that our police system hires and trains people to be bigoted ignorant bullies. I'm white, and have been harassed by police for years, just for having long hair or driving a certain car.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

So you think racism is a big enough problem to complain about but not big enough to try and come up with a solution?

Imagine the Police are Nazis and the Black and Poor people of America are Jews.

Now, come up with a non-violent solution.

This is why we have riots.

 

[OJdaKiller]

...NEVER GOOD.

Seriously. Have you ever seen an organization in the entire world that calls themselves a "brotherhood" that isn't completely fucked up toward people not in said brotherhood? It's the biggest fucking red flag on our entire national police force.

This is extremely true.

It's an excuse for inexcusable behavior because the defense is..."Well you aren't an "X", so you wouldn't understand."

Biggest problem is no one policing the police. They are not directly accountable to anyone and they have a union. So we have misdoings, internal investigations, and meaningless penalities given to them. The assumption by your average person is that a cop is a good guy...Though, people don't hold that automatic assumption about a waiter or clerk at a store. It's also a profession that doesn't necessarily attract the smartest of the bunch. There aren't any cops leaving the force to become a doctor..lol.

 

[Infinite]

So you think racism is a big enough problem to complain about but not big enough to try and come up with a solution?

I'm not sure what you mean at this point. The thread is asking a question folks are giving answers and you basically select one of these responses to say that people today aren't responsible for the past. I call you out on that then you begin to question the very purpose of protests, that has nothing to do with this thread mind you, because no one seems to be discussing solutions to a problem you didn't seem to even acknowledge. the thread is about asking why are things like this. You're actually shitting in it because people are answering that question but not presenting a solution when one wasn't requested. Idk if you're trolling me or something but imma ask you to stop it because it's very infuriating especially after you were given wordy responses as to why your positions are wrong despite all this being off-topic.

 

[-Ryn]

Imagine the Police are Nazis and the Black and Poor people of America are Jews.

Now, come up with a non-violent solution.

This is why we have riots.

...wat?

Are you telling me that black and poor people will be gassed en masse if they try to put forward a non violent solution?

 

[double jump]

...wat?

Are you telling me that black and poor people will be gassed en masse if they try to put forward a non violent solution?

Well we're being killed now just for living so it ain't like that's a huge leap in logic.

Edit: not joking.

 

[-Ryn]

I'm not sure what you mean at this point. The thread is asking a question folks are giving answers and you basically select one of these responses to say that people today aren't responsible for the past. I call you out on that then you begin to question the very purpose of protests, that has nothing to do with this thread mind you, because no one seems to be discussing solutions to a problem you didn't seem to even acknowledge. the thread is about asking why are things like this. You're actually shitting in it because people are answering that question but not presenting a solution when one wasn't requested. Idk if you're trolling me or something but imma ask you to stop it because it's very infuriating especially after you were given wordy responses as to why your positions are wrong despite all this being off-topic.

Someone said that most cops aren't like this.

Another person put forth a GIF making fun of this stance.

I asked if people think most cops are just racist pricks.

Various answers came along.

Discussion insued that became about broader issues.

Nobody has proven I'm wrong. This is a debate on the effectiveness of protests and whether or not future generations are responsible for actions of the past.

I'm not trolling and I didn't intend to irritate you so my apologies. However I stand by what I said that all these protests and riots won't fix the problem.

Finally, to answer the question of the OP directly, I don't think most cops are racist. I think the system they work within is flawed.

Well we're being killed now just for living so it ain't like that's a huge leap in logic.

You don't genuinely think that do you? Please tell me you're joking.

 

[akira28]

Finally, to answer the question of the OP directly, I don't think most cops are racist. I think the system they work within is flawed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aversive_racism

And then there's the internalized fraternal culture behind that. So race is a real problem.