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[Infinite]

Someone said that most cops aren't like this.

Another person put forth a GIF making fun of this stance.

I asked if people think most cops are just racist pricks.

Various answers came along.

Discussion insued that became about broader issues.

Nobody has proven I'm wrong. This is a debate on the effectiveness of protests and whether or not future generations are responsible for actions of the past.

I'm not trolling and I didn't intend to irritate you so my apologies. However I stand by what I said that all these protests and riots won't fix the problem.

Finally, to answer the question of the OP directly, I don't think most cops are racist. I think the system they work within is flawed.


You don't genuinely think that do you? Please tell me you're joking.

The premise of your argument on the effectiveness of protests rests on a misunderstanding of yours on what protests are supposed to accomplish. Protests are about communication by causing disruption as an attempt to get others to sit down at the table who otherwise wouldn't. Calling protests ineffective because it itself isn't a solution is asinine.

On the topic of the thread, it's not that most cops are racists dicks but it's a system put in place that heavily polices minority neighborhoods, incarcerates a staggering number of black men and it facilitates and promotes tragedies like Eric Garner and Micheal Brown. Focusing on the individual cops is a mistake, that's not what this is about. Yes there are racists cops but once again this is about the systemic racism in the entire police force and justice system.

On page one I and others provided context as to why this goes on. If you are truly genuine, and you truly give a shit you would do yourself a favor and read them and the links provided.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=141578419

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=141579736

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=141579619

 

[TalonJH]

Then instead of people rioting about how unjust the system is shouldn't they instead focus on coming up with solutions for it?

How do you fix this kind of problem?


You should try everything you can before using lethal force. That's a given.

However in cases such as what happened in Ferguson what is the guy supposed to do? He is a lone cop without back up, facing a 6' 3" dude that (according to reports) was rushing him. If a person doesn't listen to any warnings what is supposed to be done? Is the "victim" not responsible for their own actions as well?

I'm not denying that there is racism. However I feel that it is blown out of proportion.

Spoiler

Just to clarify I mean the amount of racism is blown up. Racism itself is unbelievably stupid and it's sickening that it still exists.

I think the police should do their best to be a part of the community yes. However you're blaming the individuals of a system for the actions of a system. Having cameras on every officer should be a standard I agree. But tazers don't always work and a cop without back up in a serious situation will be in major trouble. Police training needs to be more extensive and bar for entry more "strict" across the board.


Well what does a cop need to do to prove they're not racist then? And what about cops who are black? I've known a lot of cops (hell some of my family have been cops) and most of them have been perfectly good people. Assuming they're all just out to get you only perpetuates the problem and grows distrust.

One thing quickly because I think this is one one of those talking points that gets thrown out there. Brown and the officer are the same height at 6'4, Brown is just a bigger(overweight) guy.

As for fixing the problem. Of course every police officer isn't racist, no one really thinks that. The problem isn't simply with the police. It's the extra suspicion that are placed on black and Hispanic people. Also the automatic fear that people have of them. As with how people are using the fact that Brown was tall as a reason for him being more dangerous even though the fact that they were the same height actually came up in the trial hearings.

There is just this disbelief in america that minorities get treated differently and when they are told otherwise, they become offended. This unrest isn't about these two cases, its about the bigger problem. These where just tipping points. Rioting is uncalled for but people need to start listening.

 

[The Lamp]

This is my completely ignorant thought, but I have heard comments from people here in Texas that suggest some people do not trust black people as well as they trust white people. Like if they were out in public at night and saw a black person they would immediately feel more at unease than if it were a white person, all other things held constant.

This distrust, probably residual racism combined with paranoia, possibly leads to black people being treated with less benefit of the doubt than other races in situations that might involve the police.

There's other aspects to it, but I'm sure that plays a part in it. It's awful and unfair.

 

[GameGuru59]

Where does the police racial prejudice come from in America?

In one sentence? From the history of the slave trade in the America's (north and south) which necessitated defining people as property such that a profit might be made from owning and trading these people.

The slave trade started because of unfettered "capitalism" (though I shun economic terms) and a the power imbalance in global politics ever since Europeans acquired gunpowder and refined it into a material powerful enough to launch deadly projectiles from hand cannons. Once muskets were invented, Europeans were virtually unstoppable. Also, the relative stability brought by the hierarchical power structure provided first by the Catholic Church and later by empowered European nobles enabled The Renaissance and Enlightenment periods. These periods contributed to the inevitable weapons development that would allow Europeans to conquer much of the globe and thus enslave people.

 

[Sandfox]

50 years isn't a long time so those ideas are obviously still going to be around and passed on by our parents and/or grandparent's generation since they lived through it.

 

[Infinite]

50 years isn't a long time so those ideas are obviously still going to be around and passed on by our parents and/or grandparent's generation.

There was a huge political backlash from the civil rights movement that resulted in heavy police of black neighborhoods (the tough on crime political rhetoric), the war on drugs and consequentially mass incarcerations and the prison industrial complex.

 

[ChainedMaster]

The real question is why do people act like America is the only country that suffers from racism. As somebody pointed out, there are disproportionate arrests in UK between blacks and whites too. France bans burqas, an entire culture's way of living. And the EU upholds it. What about Australia. This happens everywhere. Let's be honest for once and realize minorities suffer disproportionately in just about every country.

 

[TGateKeeper]

As mentioned, the issue is larger than the police. People make it seems like all police officers in this country are white and all they do is pick on Black people only. Here in miami the majority of the officers are so called minorities, but injustice still happens all the time. Here in miami just like in america blacks make up a smaller percent of the population but the larger percent of those arrested. Most blacks are poor and without a voice so it is easier to pick on the voiceless. I have being stopped many times by police in miami for no reason at all and the only reason i did not go to jail is because of where i work. They know i have a voice and can get them in serious trouble. The image of a black man in this country is very poor. We are painted as uncivilized animals. We are made to look as though we all have the opputunity to go to harvard but choose instead to stand around with pants on our asses listening to rap living of hard working white people . But they never tell u the deck is stacked.

Even if starting today there are no more police shootings in this country we will still have a major race problem.

There are jails to be filled, workers needed in prisons and black neigborhoods to destry through gentrification. The police are just instruments used by a greater power. The people who wore white sheets in the 50's now wear suits and tie.

If people really want change in this country then we need to protest every injustice not just police shooting. We are all americans , white, black, green ,yellow pink etc and if we can't get along we will fall.

 

[davepoobond]

if you mix milk and gatorade and drink it you're going to have some throw up

 

[GameGuru59]

The real question is why do people act like America is the only country that suffers from racism. As somebody pointed out, there are disproportionate arrests in UK between blacks and whites too. France bans burqas, an entire culture's way of living. And the EU upholds it. What about Australia. This happens everywhere. Let's be honest for once and realize minorities suffer disproportionately in just about every country.

Because America is the only country that matters, duh!

 

[kamorra]

The real question is why do people act like America is the only country that suffers from racism. As somebody pointed out, there are disproportionate arrests in UK between blacks and whites too. France bans burqas, an entire culture's way of living. And the EU upholds it. What about Australia. This happens everywhere. Let's be honest for once and realize minorities suffer disproportionately in just about every country.

No the real question is how you as an American stop your Police force from killing minority's in your country. Which is something that doesn't happen in any European country. Even if it would, pointing fingers at others, saying "but they do the same!!" isn't solving your problem.

 

[Siegcram]

The real question is why do people act like America is the only country that suffers from racism. As somebody pointed out, there are disproportionate arrests in UK between blacks and whites too. France bans burqas, an entire culture's way of living. And the EU upholds it. What about Australia. This happens everywhere. Let's be honest for once and realize minorities suffer disproportionately in just about every country.

In the US minorities are shot to death with zero repercussions. By the people assigned to uphold the law and protect the citizens. Show me a European country were that happens to even one fourth of the degree it does in America.

Otherwise you're just making a petty attempt at deflecting an issue that's well worth talking about.

 

[tkscz]

The real question is why do people act like America is the only country that suffers from racism. As somebody pointed out, there are disproportionate arrests in UK between blacks and whites too. France bans burqas, an entire culture's way of living. And the EU upholds it. What about Australia. This happens everywhere. Let's be honest for once and realize minorities suffer disproportionately in just about every country.

Which is weird because world wise, White people are the minority, even compared to black people. The majority world wide are middle eastern and Asian people.

As for the U.S., as a black man living in the ghetto, I can't be angry about profiling, when the majority of people around me fit the profile perfectly and purposely. Regardless, the brutality is NOT the way they should be handling this at all. Fitting the profile or not, they shouldn't be ready to shoot to kill without being attacked first.

Hell, just recently, the police in my city just had a major drug and weapons bust. Everyone they busted was black (predominately black city) but they didn't shoot or kill any of them, showing the cops don't NEED to murder. Sadly they are choosing to and getting away with it.

 

[Ikael]

The way you euro feel about gypsies sounds similar to how some Americans feel about blacks and a few other minorities, not sure why it's so puzzling. Ya'll aren't exactly pure in this regard.

Nope, we're not pure at all. And we're not implying that America is "the only racist country". The more I observe different countries, the more I think that the whole narrative of "cultural differences" is truthly overrated, in the sense that I see that the general proportion of good people VS idiots is the same everywhere else in the planet. Yes, there're racism everywhere, and Europe is not free from it either.

The question is: How does your system copes with it? And the thing is that the factors that builds up racial tension in the US are not only huge, but structural as fuck, and pretty much "exceptional" to the US. From an outsider perspective, it is baffling to see the huge amount of effort that Americans devotes to small, symbolic dettails in favour of racial equality such as minority representation on advertising and media, only to ignore / carry on with the big, systemic "meat and potatoes" issues that impacts your minorities the most like the police system.

In short, the problem is not that the US lack the will to combat racism or as if us Europeans have a moral upperhand or any idiotic nationalistic notion of superiority. In fact, I would dare to say that the US is far more anti-racist than Europe, and far, far, far more focused (or obsessed) with this problem than most of the world. The majority of Americans would like to end racism... but are reclutant to change the structures that enables it due to another plethora of reasons which have nothing to do with racial prejudice per se, despite of its racial consequences.

I read it two years ago.

Spoiler

I was flipping through it last night, but that was more inspired by The New Jim Crow, I think

My "to read list" is going to be ridiculously huge after these Christmas, you evil creature D:

 

[Eric the Red]

You're seeing a handful of bad apples characterize an entire group. I think your premise is wrong.

Bad apples argument first post huh. Well to that I say that every other type of apple in law enforcement seems to all protect the bad apples. They never get prosecuted because it's one big fraternity. That's the problem.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Nope, we're not pure at all. And we're not implying that America is "the only racist country". The more I observe different countries, the more I think that the whole narrative of "cultural differences" is truthly overrated, in the sense that I see that the general proportion of good people VS idiots is the same everywhere else in the planet. Yes, there're racism everywhere, and Europe is not free from it either.

The question is: How does your system copes with it? And the thing is that the factors that builds up racial tension in the US are not only huge, but structural as fuck, and pretty much "exceptional" to the US. From an outsider perspective, it is baffling to see the huge amount of effort that Americans devotes to small, symbolic dettails in favour of racial equality such as minority representation on advertising and media, only to ignore / carry on with the big, systemic "meat and potatoes" issues that impacts your minorities the most like the police system.

In short, the problem is not that the US lack the will to combat racism or as if us Europeans have a moral upperhand or any idiotic nationalistic notion of superiority. In fact, I would dare to say that the US is far more anti-racist than Europe, and far, far, far more focused (or obsessed) with this problem than most of the world. The majority of Americans would like to end racism... but are reclutant to change the structures that enables it due to another plethora of reasons which have nothing to do with racial prejudice per se, despite of its racial consequences.:

As far as I'm concerned this post nails it. Along with -Ryn's posts (Minus the points about protests being worthless. Protesting is the first stage of something being done about it. It's part of the process which hopefully kicks of some discussions for change. Rioting however I don't believe does, it does have it's uses though.)

The main difference I see is that the U.S. has no legislation allowing racisim to be punished.

The system is at fault. Obviously people too but ultimately people are playing to the system which is skewed.

The structure is wrong and needs changed. Will it be changed to bring it inline with Europe or hell the 21st Century? Fuck if I know. Hope it does though.

As for the handful of apples comments I think people are taking it very literal. I'm pretty sure there are more 'good' cops than the bad ones. Or do we honestly believe that every white cop is some racist asshole?

From an outsiders perspective there are multiple issues that no one change can fix by just one race:

- Legislation put in place making racisim of not just minorities, but of EVERY race a crime and punishable offence.

- Legislation to make the police more accountable for their actions. Start with requirement of on the body cameras. Expand to include prosecution of instances where the "To Protect" part of to serve and protect is not being withheld.

- The police need better training. As many have stated it is sub par in comparison to other countries around the world.

- Gun law/ownership needs to be looked at. I have no ideas at all how to fix this problem. Seems it's part of being american or something. This could be a sticky point.

- Improvement of education opportunities to minorities. My current knowledge of AA is not up to date as I studied US history and politics nearly 7 years ago now.

- Improvements on getting people out of poverty without having to resort to crime via means of improved housing, benefits, wages to make it worthwhile to work, healthcare etc.

There's loads more but I'm on my break and need to go now, maybe update and expand my post later. :/

 

[Ya Boi Seb]

The problem that is black crime; they commit a large sum of crime despite their minority status. A lot of people don't trust them due to this. It's similar for Muslims in the UK; no one really trusts them considering they make up around 4% of the population, yet they make up 28% of Rape in the UK, also the child rape gangs recently. People profile minorities due to these reasons. It's also due to the media twisting shit, and insisting that all minorities are evil.

TL;DR Bad apples ruining it for the rest of the population.

 

[quickwhips]

Most cops do profiling because they believe it works. They look for a few things more than likely. Younger black men, kids/younger adults with sagging pants, dark color clothing on and hoodies with hoods up. Basically if it looks thugish like in a rap / nu metal video on mtv(when they played them) then it would be something they would profile. Hopefully it will stop one day and also quota that they say don't exist will disappear one day also. Cops shouldn't have to make the state so much money each day...it shouldn't be a profitable job.

 

[danwarb]

Because of human psychology, and systems and laws that don't compensate for it.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I'm sure it started around the time they considered blacks as half people. And by "they" I meant the "leaders" of that time who codified laws to say as much.

You may be referring to something else, but if you are referring to the 3/5s compromise, you may be mischaracterizing it a bit. 3/5s had to do specifically with slave population as it relates to state population when determining Congressional representation. Free black men, conversely, would count as a whole person in the Census. To put it in perspective, it was the anti-slavery North that pushed for slaves to not be counted as people, and the pro-slavery South that pushed for them to count as people. It had little to do with each culture's appraisal of black life, and more to do with politics.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I honestly don't know why black people are, overall, poorer than white or asian folks. A shit ton of reasons I'd imagine, mostly thanks to old, old habits and prejudices from white people.

Pretty much the legacy of Jim Crow cemented that. When you deny an entire segment of the population access to education, non-menial jobs, access to the political system etc the end result is that segment of the population not being able to create wealth.

Even today Black families that EARN more than a White family will often have less wealth in terms of assets, inherited assets, access to credit...etc.

 

[Chezzymann]

Racial profiling rooted in racial tension going back hundreds of years.

 

[quickwhips]

Pretty much the legacy of Jim Crow cemented that. When you deny an entire segment of the population access to education, non-menial jobs, access to the political system etc the end result is that segment of the population not being able to create wealth.

Even today Black families that EARN more than a White family will often have less wealth in terms of assets, inherited assets, access to credit...etc.

I would say this is a big leg up that maybe would help blacks more in like another 100-150 years with future families but the other stuff we should be fixing right now.

 

[a.wd]

Michelle Alexander lecture on "The New Jim Crow"

Tim Wise- The Pathology of White Privilege

Set aside two hours and report back. Seriously, these videos together answer your question from about every angle imaginable.

Thank you for these videos, recommended viewing, and while Gangnam style has broken the youtube views counter, this video has been seen less than two hundred thousand times.

 

[bengraven]

It's fear. EVERYTHING comes down to fear.

When they're being trained as policeman, the big thing that's constantly reinforced is "DO YOU WANT TO COME HOME TO YOUR FAMILY TONIGHT?". You make ONE WRONG MOVE and you're DEAD. This is reinforced so much that it becomes dogmatic to them.

Add that to the assumption that a majority of crimes are committed by minorities and suddenly everyone who isn't white is a suspect. Every time you pull a black man over, will this morning be the last time you ever saw your wife? My uncle is a retired state trooper and he said you can't ever trust a black person (as a cop, I assume). It's horribly sad.

Watch the videos of cops who end up doing stupid things. They're terrified. I remember a video where someone shouted "HE'S GOT A GUN!" because they saw something black inside the person's coat, which turned out to be a pair gloves or beanie. As a kid, even a teenager with my hands in my hoodie, I had cops with shaky voices asking me to very slowly pull my hands out. I'm white. They ask me this with their hands blatantly hovering over their pistol.

This is just theory in my head, but based on personal observation, I'm going with fear.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Pretty much the legacy of Jim Crow cemented that. When you deny an entire segment of the population access to education, non-menial jobs, access to the political system etc the end result is that segment of the population not being able to create wealth.

Even today Black families that EARN more than a White family will often have less wealth in terms of assets, inherited assets, access to credit...etc.

This ties into the idea of disenfranchisement by penal systems that reduce & eliminate citizen rights.

It blew my mind that a convict loses the right to vote, they are still required to pay for any debts they accrue in prison, and as far as job hunting it significantly limits job opportunities.

Combine that with the disproportionate number of black and Latino men being pushed into jail, I can see quite clearly that being or appearing Tough on crime by crooked politicians is a way to destroy minority communities.

The Rockefeller drug laws may have affected NY minorities moreso than any racial slur that could ever be thrown out to people.

What bothers me the most is not that the drugs themselves are necessarily bad or good, but the black market underlying them is crooked and racist as fuck.

 

[Shiggie]

From an outsider perspective, it is baffling to see the huge amount of effort that Americans devotes to small, symbolic dettails in favour of racial equality such as minority representation on advertising and media, only to ignore / carry on with the big, systemic "meat and potatoes" issues that impacts your minorities the most like the police system.

I believe that Ellen Degeneres having a television show, glee and the positive representation of gay people in media made huge headway for the gay rights movement. It may not seem like much but, how you're viewed in media, especially in America, can effect people's opinion and eventually policy.

 

[Mononoke]

I think you have to look back at segregation and early racial america post-slavery era. For generations black americans were kept out of the economy. So many Americans today think that, just because slavery no longer exists, and that segeregation is over, that black americans should be able to just work hard and make better for themselves. That no one is holding them back anymore, and that the past no longer has an impact.

But the truth is, it has a long lasting impact. Ignoring those that are racist today (and there are people very racist today, with laws race based)...consider that for many black americans, their entire family and generations were kept out of the economy. For most white americans, their family came over here as immigrants. Each generation succeeded off the backs of the previous generation. So over time you have many white family's eventually get into the middle class (some even the higher middle class, or even breaking into the rich wealthy class). But it took generations of immigrants and family being in lower class and providing for their children, which gave them opportunity on their go around to get into a new class (and they would pass that work off to their children and so on).

Imagine an entire race being denied that. You don't take 70 + years of that, and suddenly expect them to get into the middle class.

So to answer OP's question, I think many black americans are still feeling the negative impacts of this (hence why you have a lot black americans stuck in the lower class). It's not a race thing, but lower class tends to have higher crime rates (due to a lack of opportunity, education, opportunity and resources). This has always been the case (even for early white immigrants that were in the poor class).

Racists will ignore all of this, and will just say it's a black thing. Only black people are doing this to themselves. Black people have a higher crime rate, because it's something they choose to do (again they see it as a cultural thing). It's obviously more complex then what I just said (and there are racist people in this country still, and laws that are inherently more racist). But I think on a socio-economic level, history matters. It's still being felt today.

It's a domino effect. So to get back to OP's question, I think racial views from cops stems from poor class people in general having higher crime rate (and blacks in america largely making up that poor class). But instead of looking at the issue of WHY so many black americans are in poor class, they just reduce it to it being a cultural thing (the are just criminals and choose to be that). I think that's how a lot of racial views evolve today. It's easier to blame a race for criminality, then look at history, since that would require taking responsibility.

That said, there are clear cases of middle class black american's treated harshly under the law, or treated racially. So it's not just that. This country is still racist, even if they act like they are not (they won't say they are, but it's what they believe inside). It doesn't matter if a black american is dressed nice, or has nice things. They will still be treated differently. I don't mean to belittle this experience or say it's only a class thing. Because it's not. Sadly. But I think in the larger context, class and history plays a big part in how things have played out. I think Americans don't want to understand history, and take responsibility for it. It's easier to blame others.

 

[kame-sennin]

It's baffling from an outsider looking in and seeing these cases constantly pop up against minorities and not only that, but the lack of surprise at the outcomes of the cases

I mean, I'm a white guy from Ireland and I'm not going to pretend racism doesn't exist here, but stuff like this, with police, would never happen to minorities in my town here. It's a disgusting practice and the police there seem to be protected

What is going on over there?

It originates from Reconstruction, the period directly following the American Civil War. Society in the American South was structured around white supremacy, with Blacks being considered the lowest, sub-human caste. Following the war, whites who grew up believing that they were superior and blacks were inferior were told by the Federal Northern-run government that blacks were now full and equal citizens. And this was after losing the U.S.'s bloodiest war and having the local economy destroyed. Southern whites, from rich plantation owners, to politicians, police, and poor citizens reacted against this imposed equality with a spree of mob violence that lasted for decades. It ended with whites getting what they wanted - Reconstruction failed, blacks were not given full rights, and white supremacy remained in tact. This was the beginning of the Jim Crow era.

Modern American policing is a reflection of the violence of Reconstruction. In order for our capitalist society to function, a caste system must remain in place. The only way to maintain such an oppressive system is through the liberal application of violence. Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow. Jim Crow was replaced by the drug war. The violence of the Reconstruction-era South simply followed blacks when they emigrated to northern cities.

 

[akira28]

from the white man's balls


edit: serious answer filled with wisdom that strikes at the heart of the issue.

seriously, you think a society that wasn't run completely by men would still be racist and sexist?

 

[kame-sennin]

Yes it takes time to heal from things.
My only point is that it isn't something that should be used against people living now. As a history lesson to learn from sure. However grudges carried across generations won't help anyone (which I know you weren't implying or stating).

I can't heal from a stab wound until you take the knife out.

 

[Valhelm]

Someone said that most cops aren't like this.

Another person put forth a GIF making fun of this stance.

I asked if people think most cops are just racist pricks.

Various answers came along.

Discussion insued that became about broader issues.

Nobody has proven I'm wrong. This is a debate on the effectiveness of protests and whether or not future generations are responsible for actions of the past.

I'm not trolling and I didn't intend to irritate you so my apologies. However I stand by what I said that all these protests and riots won't fix the problem.

Finally, to answer the question of the OP directly, I don't think most cops are racist. I think the system they work within is flawed.


You don't genuinely think that do you? Please tell me you're joking.

Only a minority of cops deliberately hold poor feelings toward Black people, but the system encourages the oppression of African Americans through unfair policing and the use of excessive force.

It's possible that Darren Wilson is not at all racist. He probably doesn't think of himself as a racist. But that's irrelevant, because the American police system perpetuates violence against Black people, especially in places like Ferguson.

 

[Mumei]

It originates from Reconstruction, the period directly following the American Civil War. Society in the American South was structured around white supremacy, with Blacks being considered the lowest, sub-human caste. Following the war, whites who grew up believing that they were superior and blacks were inferior were told by the Federal Northern-run government that blacks were now full and equal citizens. And this was after losing the U.S.'s bloodiest war and having the local economy destroyed. Southern whites, from rich plantation owners, to politicians, police, and poor citizens reacted against this imposed equality with a spree of mob violence that lasted for decades. It ended with whites getting what they wanted - Reconstruction failed, blacks were not given full rights, and white supremacy remained in tact. This was the beginning of the Jim Crow era.

Modern American policing is a reflection of the violence of Reconstruction. In order for our capitalist society to function, a caste system must remain in place. The only way to maintain such an oppressive system is through the liberal application of violence. Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow. Jim Crow was replaced by the drug war. The violence of the Reconstruction-era South simply followed blacks when they emigrated to northern cities.

It didn't end with Reconstruction, either - a black man was lynched in the South every four days between 1889 and 1929. Radical Reconstruction itself was precipitated by a massacre of forty-six black people in Memphis.

 

[Who]

And the majority are happy to sit back, say nothing and let the minority characterize the entire group, the minority are the majority.

This so much.

We need police to start publicly acknowledging and speaking out against this shit if they ever hope to gain public trust.

 

[zeemumu]

It's not the police specifically. It's people who were already on their way to being assholes joining the force and abusing their authority. And them already being assholes originates from post Civil War America.

It didn't end with Reconstruction, either - a black man was lynched in the South every four days between 1889 and 1929. Radical Reconstruction itself was precipitated by a massacre of forty-six black people in Memphis.

It pretty much continued on until the 1960's where racial prejudice gradually stopped being publicly tolerated for the most part.

 

[danwarb]

from the white man's balls


edit: serious answer filled with wisdom that strikes at the heart of the issue.

seriously, you think a society that wasn't run completely by men would still be racist and sexist?

Yes. It would.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You're seeing a handful of bad apples characterize an entire group. I think your premise is wrong.

One bad apple spoils the whole damn bunch. I find it super cute that people just now realized the police don't treat minorities equally simply because they finally got video evidence of it on the internet.

Remember this Chappelle clip? We of darker than khaki skin were aware of this a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ3dk6KAvQM

 

[Valhelm]

from the white man's balls


edit: serious answer filled with wisdom that strikes at the heart of the issue.

seriously, you think a society that wasn't run completely by men would still be racist and sexist?

It might be less sexist but it would be just as racist.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It didn't end with Reconstruction, either - a black man was lynched in the South every four days between 1889 and 1929. Radical Reconstruction itself was precipitated by a massacre of forty-six black people in Memphis.

Yup. And don't forget that time when a Black community managed to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", worked hard and accomplished a pretty good thing in 1921...it got burned to the ground. Oh and people were massacred.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Vicious cycle. It started out with the slave trade; European traders saw a way to export cheap labor from African tribes willing to sell it. To justify treating other human beings like chattel, they created an elaborate system of rationalizations, from "we're baptizing them, so it all works out" to "they're too stupid to be left on their own," and many more besides. This was the start of racism against black people, who were previously not in enough contact with Europe to create any meaningful stereotypes.

Fast forward a few hundred years, the South loses the Civil War and the slave trade is abolished in America. What's not abolished, however, is the ideas the slave traders cooked up, which have since taken on a life of their own and permeated the portions of the population that had never even seen a black person, let alone owned a slave. These attitudes led to the newly freed population being treated incredibly poorly, which, combined with the existing economic disadvantages of being the product of generations upon generations of free labor, led to a harsh economic disparity in the general population, with no real way to get out of it. This leads to a higher crime rate among the black population, which leads to cops thinking less of them, which leads to cops acting worse to them, which exacerbates the original problem, which results in more crime, which...

You get the idea. Most cops aren't "racist" in the sense that we think of today, it's a learned behavior once they get on the job, both from older members of the force to actually dealing with people. Something needs to be done to break the cycle. It's not gonna be easy, but it's possible.

 

[Valhelm]

Vicious cycle. It started out with the slave trade; European traders saw a way to export cheap labor from African tribes willing to sell it. To justify treating other human beings like chattel, they created an elaborate system of rationalizations, from "we're baptizing them, so it all works out" to "they're too stupid to be left on their own," and many more besides. This was the start of racism against black people, who were previously not in enough contact with Europe to create any meaningful stereotypes.

Fast forward a few hundred years, the South loses the Civil War and the slave trade is abolished in America. What's not abolished, however, is the ideas the slave traders cooked up, which have since taken on a life of their own and permeated the portions of the population that had never even seen a black person, let alone owned a slave. These attitudes led to the newly freed population being treated incredibly poorly, which, combined with the existing economic disadvantages of being the product of generations upon generations of free labor, led to a harsh economic disparity in the general population, with no real way to get out of it. This leads to a higher crime rate among the black population, which leads to cops thinking less of them, which leads to cops acting worse to them, which exacerbates the original problem, which results in more crime, which...

You get the idea. Most cops aren't "racist" in the sense that we think of today, it's a learned behavior once they get on the job, both from older members of the force to actually dealing with people. Something needs to be done to break the cycle. It's not gonna be easy, but it's possible.

Absolutely.

 

[Mumei]

I can't heal from a stab wound until you take the knife out.

"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress comes from healing the wound that the blow made and they haven't even begun to pull the knife out much less try and heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there."

 

[akira28]

It might be less sexist but it would be just as racist.

Because women are just as racist as men?

 

[Mumei]

Because women are just as racist as men?

Yes.

This is a great overview of the racist and classist problems within the women's movement (as well as some of the figures who weren't part of the problem, so it's not a complete downer). The section about the myth of the black rapist as justification for lynching, and the way that white feminist writers contributed to that either through silence when black women were asking for their help on the issue, or by outright repeating malicious lies about black male sexual violence or reinterpreting the victims of lynchings (such as Emmett Till), as trying to possess white women.

Edit:

"Emmett Till was going to show his black buddies that he, and by inference they could get a white woman and Carolyn Bryant was the nearest convenient object. In concrete terms, the accessibility of all white women was on review . . . . And what of the wolf whistle, Till's 'gesture of adolescent bravado'? . . . The whistle was no small tweet of hubba-hubba or melodious approval for a well-turned ankle . . . . It was a deliberate insult just short of physical assault, a last reminder to Carolyn Bryant that this black boy, Till, had in mind to possess her."

From Against Our Will, 1976

 

[TheFNEffecT]

Some people just have hidden agendas/aggravations/reservations/??? as they climb the ranks in society, or something like that....

I can happily say I work for a southern California Police Department (as a Systems Admin/IT/Analyst/Etc) and see none of this racial prejudice evident here at this department. Unfortunately the good things that happen are usually overshadowed by the bad and I mean that's usually par for the course since there's levels of expectation from PD.

Hell we recently had an incident where a youth was running around outside with a airsoft gun that looked damn real, our officers responded Code 3 and handled the situation swiftly and without any terrible conclusions, I'm proud to work with these men and women.

 

[akira28]

mumei: I know that women can be as racist as men, and have been. But my thought is that a lot of that is due to how they are raised and cultured to be racist. I saw an old man spit at my feet when he was out with his grandchild. At the time I was just thinking oh, maybe he just needed glasses, or didn't see I was walking there and had been ready to spit, etc. Rationalizing it. But months later it hit me. He was just demonstrating for the next generation. We wouldn't know what a society would be like without the paternalistic control via fear of death, gonadal, dynastic, pastoral profiting from the labor of your vassals historical evolution we went through. Centuries of essentially being told, "be good or you'll be raped by black dudes" has to have some kind of effect.

I'm not intending to imagine pink unicorns here, but what if people hadn't been taught from birth that they were chosen by some god and that they were better than others and that others were bad and good for nothing but work? We'll never know because it's impossible to separate the two, but it feels like the thousands of years old form of caste-slavery is a result of patriarchy, and that the birth of feminism was affected by patriarchy as well. Racism was discussed like fossil fuels are today. A liberal cause.

anyway, long story short, say the Queen of Sheba ran things instead of King Tut. I wonder if skin color would play so much a role in society today.

 

[Piecake]

It originates from Reconstruction, the period directly following the American Civil War. Society in the American South was structured around white supremacy, with Blacks being considered the lowest, sub-human caste. Following the war, whites who grew up believing that they were superior and blacks were inferior were told by the Federal Northern-run government that blacks were now full and equal citizens. And this was after losing the U.S.'s bloodiest war and having the local economy destroyed. Southern whites, from rich plantation owners, to politicians, police, and poor citizens reacted against this imposed equality with a spree of mob violence that lasted for decades. It ended with whites getting what they wanted - Reconstruction failed, blacks were not given full rights, and white supremacy remained in tact. This was the beginning of the Jim Crow era.

Modern American policing is a reflection of the violence of Reconstruction. In order for our capitalist society to function, a caste system must remain in place. The only way to maintain such an oppressive system is through the liberal application of violence. Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow. Jim Crow was replaced by the drug war. The violence of the Reconstruction-era South simply followed blacks when they emigrated to northern cities.

This actually happened before the war. Unlike previous Southern politicians/planters like Jefferson and Madison, Senators in the second and third generation, like John C. Calhoun began to not see slavery as a necessary evil, but a positive good because they believed whites were superior and blacks could only function with their guiding hand.

Along with Slavery, it was also one of the causes of the Civil War (Slavery a strong first, White supremacy a distant second, and everything else near the bottom of the page or off). Stevens Cornerstone speech is perhaps the best indication of this, but one of the ways that Southern Commissioners tried to convince other Southern Conventions/congressmen was to talk about white supremacy, how Lincoln wanted to racial equality and the horrors that would cause in the South, especially servile insurrection and black people marrying white daughters. The horror. It was also one of the major reasons, besides slavery and defending the home, why non-slave owners fought for the Confederacy.

So yea, to make a long story short, white supremacy existed well before Reconstruction. Apostles of Disunion is a very good and very short book that talks about this issue and provides a great many primary sources.

It didn't end with Reconstruction, either - a black man was lynched in the South every four days between 1889 and 1929. Radical Reconstruction itself was precipitated by a massacre of forty-six black people in Memphis.

I am reading The Wars of Reconstruction right now and the author makes the point that Andrew Johnson had an opportunity to reconstruct Southern society and politics, but squandered it by accepting the Southern politicians who caused the war back into their previous positions. Southern Unionists felt betrayed and blacks obviously felt betrayed. Radical Reconstruction made an effort, but with Andrew Johnson in the Presidency it was really not enough to gain traction because he refused send in the military to put down the rampant violence in the South that the South felt that they could get away with thanks to Johnson being president. They realized they could fight for slavery and white supremacy another way

It really makes you wonder how different our history would be if Lincoln was not assassinated.

 

[Valhelm]

Because women are just as racist as men?

Absolutely. While some people insist that men are more vocally racist, I've heard more women than men use the n-word.

I've heard way more women say "I'd never date a Black or Asian person" than the reverse. An Asian-American girl on my debate team was recently going on about how black guys are "good for sex but nothing else".

 

[akira28]

Absolutely. While some people insist that men are more vocally racist, I've heard more women than men use the n-word.

I've heard way more women say "I'd never date a Black or Asian person" than the reverse. An Asian-American girl on my debate team was recently going on about how black guys are "good for sex but nothing else".

culturally, but natively, I have to wonder.

 

[ChainedMaster]

No the real question is how you as an American stop your Police force from killing minority's in your country. Which is something that doesn't happen in any European country. Even if it would, pointing fingers at others, saying "but they do the same!!" isn't solving your problem.

The police doesn't just kill minorities. Remember the white teenager shot to death when he opened his own front door because he held a Wii mote? Yeah, he was white and the officer wasn't charged with anything. Like I said, minorities suffer discrimination in most, if not all countries. The fact that US police are trigger happy probably extends this to killings by police. The thread title clearly stated racial prejudice in America, there is racial prejudice everywhere. That's my point. The racial prejudice isn't America-exclusive. The police killings, yes.