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[Phoenix]

Bush sitting in that classroom for seven minutes is not only ridiculous, but irresponsible. He IS the commander in chief of the country he WAS informed the "nation is under attack"....

Was he told that the nation was under attack or that a plane struck the WTC? A plane or two crashing into the WTC doesn't mean that the "nation is under attack". I'm not trying to defend Bush here, but your argument is faulty.

 

[Santo]

Was he told that the nation was under attack or that a plane struck the WTC? A plane or two crashing into the WTC doesn't mean that the "nation is under attack". I'm not trying to defend Bush here, but your argument is faulty.

He was told "the nation is under attack" that's why it was in quotes. If you are still cynical, refer to the 9/11 hearings.. I'm sure you can find this part online somewhere.

 

[human5892]

Was he told that the nation was under attack or that a plane struck the WTC? A plane or two crashing into the WTC doesn't mean that the "nation is under attack". I'm not trying to defend Bush here, but your argument is faulty.

I think it was pretty clear at that point that it was an attack, especially when he had been specifically briefed in August that bin Laden was planning such an attack (another one of Fahrenheit 911's great points, incidentally).

 

[Phoenix]

The second plane. Given the time, it couldn't have been anything else.

No - sorry that argument is flawed as well. It could have been an ATC failure, it could have been a domestic terror situation, it could have been a variety of things. Just as when the recent theft of two trucks carrying highly explosive fuel could have meant that Osama was about to drive into a mall, it actually ended up being that some theives wanted the gas to sell in Mexico.

The first thing the secret service needed to do is find out what was going on. Clearly the problem has to do with air traffic, so we what - wisk the president to an airport to board Air Force One? That would be folly until you can confirm the security situation on the ground, then move the president and get him into the air under escort.

It is important to know as much information as possible before acting and I'm sure that's what the president's people were doing. Again - Bush blows and all, but the argument that Bush should have hopped from his chair and immediately did something is as misguided and misleading as many portions of F911.

 

[Minotauro]

Do they have confirmation on what exactly was said to Bush? [edit due to lazyness]I don't have to see this film to know that its more about projecting what MM believes than showing the actual truth. He lost all his credit with me after manipulating the timeline with the NRA footage to get his point across. It just shows how far he will go to sell his version of the events.

Please, read this... http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

It really infuriates me how this idea about how he manipulated all these things in BFC has become common knowledge...or, misknowledge I guess.

 

[Minotauro]

A plane or two crashing into the WTC doesn't mean that the "nation is under attack".

Ha! Are you honestly suggesting that it's possible for TWO planes to hit a building on accident?

 

[Phoenix]

He was told "the nation is under attack" that's why it was in quotes. If you are still cynical, refer to the 9/11 hearings.. I'm sure you can find this part online somewhere.

Okay, I'm going through the transcripts of all of the various days searching for the quote "the nation is under attack" and I'm coming up with nothing. Is that the exact quote (otherwise it should be in single quotes)?

 

[AirBrian]

So how accurate is this:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

 

[Phoenix]

Ha! Are you honestly suggesting that it's possible for TWO planes to hit a building on accident?

Didn't say it was an accident - just saying that the conclusion reached is not the only logical conclusion. I guess the failure of the powergrid that took out power across the united states could only have been the work of terrorists too?

 

[fart]

i believe the exact quote was "america is under attack"

 

[AirBrian]

Question for all the time issues/debates:

Are all the clocks synchronized? If they are, who verified they are? Is the AP person's time exact with NORAD? Is NORAD's time (I'm assuming atomic time from Mt. Cheyanne) the same as the school's? Where does the time come from in the video? Where does the official time of the attacks come from? What times are sync'ed and what times are not? I would appreciate some clarification on this.

 

[Minotauro]

Didn't say it was an accident - just saying that the conclusion reached is not the only logical conclusion. I guess the failure of the powergrid that took out power across the united states could only have been the work of terrorists too?

Uhm, there's a world of difference between the power going out and two, separate planes hitting two buildings within 100 feet of eachother.

So how accurate is this:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Pretty much incomplete in all it's points. It's been proven wrong so many times, I can't even believe it's still up. Right now, the only purpose it serves is to give ammunition to anti-Moore zealots who don't fact-check.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation.

The movie also criticizes Bush for staying inside a Florida classroom full of kids for a full seven minutes after he learned that the country was under attack on Sept. 11, 2001.

However, the vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission has said that Bush did the right thing. "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana.

In "Fahrenheit 9/11" (search) Moore also claims that the White House approved plans for planes to pick up relatives of Usama Bin Laden right after the attacks. But according to terrorism czar Richard Clarke (search), he alone approved the Saudi flights.


In addition, Moore says that the departing Saudis were not properly processed by the FBI when leaving the country. That too is contradicted by the Sept. 11 commission, which said the Saudis were properly interviewed.

Finally, Moore shows prominent members of the Taliban visiting Texas, implying that they were invited by then-Governor Bush. The Taliban delegation, however, was invited to Houston by UNOCAL (search), a California energy company.

Moore also doesn't mention that the visit was made with the permission of the Clinton administration, which twice met with Taliban members — in 1997 and 1998.

The average American spend about 3% of their time on vacation. Either way he spent 4 times more that the average American on vacation.

 

[FnordChan]

From Ask The Whitehouse:

Laura, from Iowa writes:
Dear Mr. Card, Since it's the 2nd anniversary of 911, I was wondering: What was it like to tell President Bush about the terrorist attack? I would really appreciate a reply. : Thanks! Laura from Iowa

Secretary Card
Laura -- It was a terrible message to have to construct and deliver. No one should have to tell a President: "A second plane hit the second Tower. America is under attack!"

Card goes on to describe how Bush "paused for a quick and quiet moment as he focused on the challenge", which is obviously a matter of debate. However, his exact words are not.

FnordChan

 

[Phoenix]

i believe the exact quote was "america is under attack"

Correct. "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack..." would be the correct quote.

 

[Phoenix]

Uhm, there's a world of difference between the power going out and two, separate planes hitting two buildings within 100 feet of eachother.

Indeed, so let us assume that it was this obvious - as obvious as planes flying over restricted airspace over the white house. What do you do - rush the president to a hardened bunker, because ultimately the secret service is who handles that process.

 

[AirBrian]

Pretty much incomplete in all it's points. It's been proven wrong so many times, I can't even believe it's still up. Right now, the only purpose it serves is to give ammunition to anti-Moore zealots who don't fact-check.

Do you have a link that disproves those? And not www.michaelmoore.com.

(I'm not being sarcastic, just curious. Please don't take my questioning the wrong way.)

 

[fart]

why is michael moore not allowed to defend himself

 

[AirBrian]

why is michael moore not allowed to defend himself

Wouldn't it be more credible if someone else verified Moore's findings?

 

[fart]

maybe if you have an a priori belief that moore lacks credibility. however, a fact is a fact is a fact.

 

[sc0la]

Card goes on to describe how Bush "paused for a quick and quiet moment as he focused on the challenge, the formidable "My Pet Goat."

Just dishing my daily dose of asshole.

 

[fart]

man, a pet goat would be awesome

 

[sc0la]

man, a pet goat would be awesome

I used to have a pigmy goat, and it was indeed awesome.

My little sister was in diapers at the time and if she walked out back with no pants on the goat would take aim at the diaper, duck his head, scratch the ground and ram her right in the bottom

 

[AirBrian]

True, but at one point it was a fact that the Earth was flat and the Sun revolves around the Earth. (OK, maybe a bad example.) There are always different perceptions and an outside, "independent" verification further validates one side of that perception regardless of who says it.

 

[FnordChan]

Regarding "The Truth About Bowling For Columbine"

Do you have a link that disproves those?

Erik Möller's response to David' Hardy's criticism of Bowling for Columbine is about as thorough as it gets. Read 'em both and judge for yourself.

FnordChan

 

[AirBrian]

Regarding "The Truth About Bowling For Columbine"



Erik Möller's response to David' Hardy's criticism of Bowling for Columbine is about as thorough as it gets. Read 'em both and judge for yourself.

FnordChan

Awesome, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

 

[FnordChan]

Meanwhile, some of you may be interested in a timeline of President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11. It's deeply critical and thoroughly documented.

FnordChan

 

[xsarien]

There is no defense - period - for Bush to have sat there for seven minutes after hearing precisely what was going on. He's the leader of The Free World, and his reaction to the attacks is to simply just sit and wait?

Put any other former President in that situation. They would've calmly gotten up, explained that some urgent matter had come up (maybe throw in a promise to come back), and left immediately. The full impact of the situation can not be accurately appreciated unless you see the footage. He SITS there. He DOES NOTHING except look mentally lost at what to do. He fucking picks up My Pet Goat and starts flipping through it just so he doesn't look like he's completely fucking idle!

And this goes on FOR JUST UNDER 10 MINUTES.

I was about a mile away, and was on the phone with everyone I could get through to in under that amount of time once I realized what was going on, and I'm just some shmuck web producer.

The man is a sorry, sorry excuse for a President.

 

[SteveMeister]

Not a Bush fan, but even from reading that timeline it's clear that everyone had a different idea of what was going on at the time. I don't see conspiracy when I read all the differing accounts of that morning -- I see people working with inadequate lines of communication (airliners to air traffic control to the FAA to NORAD to the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, National Security Advisor, President, etc). I see people wanting to absolutely confirm things before acting hastily. I see people trying to get as much information as possible before passing it along the chain of command. Looking back, everything of course is much clearer. Monday morning quarterbacking. But we're talking a very short period of time.

Bush sitting there for 7 minutes doesn't bother me as much as the secret service not whisking him out of there sooner. For the President's protection. But I'm not sure what he could have done as commander in chief in those 7 minutes.

Let's get the guy out of office -- he's done some really bad things for this country -- but I don't think focusing on this extremely short period of time, in the pre-Homeland Security Administration days, is productive or honestly even meaningful.

 

[Cooter]

If this isn't a sorry excuse for a thread I don't know what is. Who cares how long he sat with school children after he learned about the attacks.

You people are beyond desperate now.

Go see the movie if you want but just know going in it is a misleading propaganda piece.

 

[shuri]

The Facts about Farenheit 911

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Not a Bush fan, but even from reading that timeline it's clear that everyone had a different idea of what was going on at the time. I don't see conspiracy when I read all the differing accounts of that morning -- I see people working with inadequate lines of communication (airliners to air traffic control to the FAA to NORAD to the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, National Security Advisor, President, etc). I see people wanting to absolutely confirm things before acting hastily. I see people trying to get as much information as possible before passing it along the chain of command. Looking back, everything of course is much clearer. Monday morning quarterbacking. But we're talking a very short period of time.

Bush sitting there for 7 minutes doesn't bother me as much as the secret service not whisking him out of there sooner. For the President's protection. But I'm not sure what he could have done as commander in chief in those 7 minutes.

Let's get the guy out of office -- he's done some really bad things for this country -- but I don't think focusing on this extremely short period of time, in the pre-Homeland Security Administration days, is productive or honestly even meaningful.

I agree with the first part. The thing about protecting the President or any important leader is that sometimes, staying put can be just as good as moving. If nobody knows where he's at, then it's a good thing. The reason they took a flight to midwest before hand was there were credible threats to the Whitehouse. So, I don't really think that's a big deal. Moore did a great job of trying to convey that the President was asleep at the wheel when he documented that before 9/11, I think he said he was on vacation 40% of the time. When Bush's term first started, I always thought it was strange at the frequency he left to go to his ranch in Texas. So, looking at the 7 minutes doesn't hurt or help for me, the overlying point is still there.

 

[mjq jazz bar]

If this isn't a sorry excuse for a thread I don't know what is. Who cares how long he sat with school children after he learned about the attacks.

You people are beyond desperate now.

Go see the movie if you want but just know going in it is a misleading propaganda piece.

Thanks for your deeply-penetrating post.

 

[Santo]

Chief of Staff Andrew Card was in a nearby room when he heard the news. He waited until there was a pause in the reading drill to walk in and tell Bush. [Washington Times, 10/7/02, Washington Times, 10/8/02] The children were getting their books from under their seats to read a story together when Card came in. [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] Card whispered to Bush: "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." [San Francisco Chronicle, 9/11/02] Another account has Card saying: "A second plane has hit the World Trade Center. America is under attack." [Telegraph, 12/16/01] Accounts vary as to when Card gave Bush the news. Some say 9:05 [Salon 9/11/01, New York Times, 9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01, Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/02], and some say 9:07. [Washington Post, 9/11/01, Washington Times, 10/8/02] ABC News reporter Ann Compton, who was in the room, said she was surprised by the interruption and "wrote [the time] down in my reporter's notebook, by my watch, 9:07 a.m." [ABC News, 9/11/02]

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/06/scsb.bush.mov

So what did the Commander in Chief do with the knowledge that the United States was under attack?

He did nothing.

Bush did not say one word. He did not ask Card any questions. He did not give any orders. He did not know who (or which country) was attacking, whether there would be more attacks, what military plans had been taken, what military actions should be taken - indeed, he knew virtually nothing about what was going on outside the room. He just sat there. Bush later recalled: "There was no time for discussion or anything." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 83-84] Even stranger, as one newspaper put it, although the nation was under terrorist attack, "for some reason, Secret Service agents [did] not bustle him away." [Globe and Mail, 9/12/01]

Military pilots must have "permission from the White House because only the president has the authority to order a civilian aircraft shot down." [CNN, 10/26/99] But if retaliatory strikes needed to the authorized, Bush was not available. If one of the planes had to be shot down to save more lives on the ground, Bush was not available. Although several fighters had been dispatched to defend New York City, the pilot of one of the planes flying to catch Flight 175 later noted that it wouldn't have mattered if he caught up with it, because only Bush could order a shootdown, and Bush could not be reached in the classroom. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02]

Secret Service agents and other security personnel had set up a television in a nearby classroom. They turned on the TV just as Flight 175 crashed into the World Trade Center. According to Sarasota County Sheriff Bill Balkwill, who was in the room, a Marine responsible for carrying Bush's phone immediately said to Balkwill, "We're out of here. Can you get everyone ready?" [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02] But he must have been overruled by someone, because Bush did not leave.

Meanwhile, Secret Service agents burst into Vice President Cheney's White House office. They carried him under his arms - nearly lifting him off the ground - and propelled him down the steps into the White House basement and through a long tunnel toward an underground bunker. Accounts of when this happened vary greatly, from 9:06 [New York Times, 9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01] to after 9:30. [CBS, 9/11/02, Washington Post, 1/27/02] Cheney's own account is vague and contradictory. [Meet the Press, 9/16/01] The one eyewitness account, by White House photographer David Bohrer, said it happened just after 9:00. [ABC, 9/14/02 (B)] It's easy to see why the White House would have wanted this event placed at a later time (after Bush's initial statement to the nation rather than after the second crash) to avoid the obvious question: if Cheney was immediately evacuated, why wasn't Bush?

When Did Bush Leave the Classroom?

Nearly every news account fails to mention when Bush left the classroom after being told America was under attack. Three mention 9:12 a.m. [New York Times, 9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01, Daily Mail, 9/8/02] Remaining in the classroom for approximately five to seven minutes is inexcusable, but the video of Bush in the classroom suggests he stayed longer than that. The video contains several edits and ends before Bush leaves the room, so it also doesn't tell us exactly how long he stayed. One newspaper suggested he remained "for eight or nine minutes" - sometime between 9:13 and 9:16, since Card's arrival is uncertain. [Tampa Tribune, 9/1/02]

When Bush finally did leave, he didn't act like a man in a hurry. In fact, he was described as "openly stretching out the moment." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 89] When the lesson was over, Bush said to the children: "Hoo! These are great readers. Very impressive! Thank you all so much for showing me your reading skills. I bet they practice too. Don't you? Reading more than they watch TV? Anybody do that? Read more than you watch TV? [Hands go up] Oh that's great! Very good. Very important to practice! Thanks for having me. Very impressed." [Transcribed from Booker video, Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 89-90] Bush still continued to talk, advising the children to stay in school and be good citizens. [Tampa Tribune, 9/1/02, St. Petersburg Times, 9/8/02 (B)] One student asked Bush a question, and he gave a quick response on his education policy. [New York Post, 9/12/02]

READ THIS: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

There seems to be a large amount of confusion about what happened. According to Moore he sat through the second attack. According to Bush himself, he saw the first attack happen on TV. (His words for nearly six months after the attacks). He then corrected himself and said it was probably the second attack he saw(live). How is that possible when he was told what happened when he was sitting infront of the children when the word was passed on to him?

It's possible he was told of the first attack happening while he sat with the children, and actually saw the second attack happen. However, there are various reports he was told about the first attack BEFORE going in to see the children. Way too many conflicting stories.

Side note - The place he was staying at the night before was a short building 5/6 stories if I remember correctly. In this particular case he had security set up with ground to air missiles. Highly unorthodox to say the least.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Not a Bush fan, but even from reading that timeline it's clear that everyone had a different idea of what was going on at the time. I don't see conspiracy when I read all the differing accounts of that morning -- I see people working with inadequate lines of communication (airliners to air traffic control to the FAA to NORAD to the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, National Security Advisor, President, etc). I see people wanting to absolutely confirm things before acting hastily. I see people trying to get as much information as possible before passing it along the chain of command. Looking back, everything of course is much clearer. Monday morning quarterbacking. But we're talking a very short period of time.

Bush sitting there for 7 minutes doesn't bother me as much as the secret service not whisking him out of there sooner. For the President's protection. But I'm not sure what he could have done as commander in chief in those 7 minutes.

Let's get the guy out of office -- he's done some really bad things for this country -- but I don't think focusing on this extremely short period of time, in the pre-Homeland Security Administration days, is productive or honestly even meaningful.

Ditto.

When Bush finally did leave, he didn't act like a man in a hurry. In fact, he was described as "openly stretching out the moment." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 89] When the lesson was over, Bush said to the children: "Hoo! These are great readers. Very impressive! Thank you all so much for showing me your reading skills. I bet they practice too. Don't you? Reading more than they watch TV? Anybody do that? Read more than you watch TV? [Hands go up] Oh that's great! Very good. Very important to practice! Thanks for having me. Very impressed." [Transcribed from Booker video, Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 89-90] Bush still continued to talk, advising the children to stay in school and be good citizens

So, what is he supposed to say to the kids? I agree he should have left but, at the same time the guy (as an adult) has to portray some sort of aura to the kids. This would be the same to me as a parent who is coddling a child when the other parent is is surgery because of a car wreck. Those 7 minutes, while grating, didn't and wouldn't have changed the outcome. Really are we so petty that now we are going to nitpick 7 minutes 3 years after the event? Let's talk about all the boneheaded things he's done in the other 2103788 minutes of his term

 

[Socreges]

Let's get the guy out of office -- he's done some really bad things for this country -- but I don't think focusing on this extremely short period of time, in the pre-Homeland Security Administration days, is productive or honestly even meaningful.

Essentially, a large indication of his character as President is at the heart of this. People use this one situation as a base for a whole lot more.

No - sorry that argument is flawed as well. It could have been an ATC failure, it could have been a domestic terror situation, it could have been a variety of things. Just as when the recent theft of two trucks carrying highly explosive fuel could have meant that Osama was about to drive into a mall, it actually ended up being that some theives wanted the gas to sell in Mexico.

You said it yourself:

Correct. "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack..." would be the correct quote.

Not so flawed after all, huh. Common sense and perception.

 

[Socreges]

So, what is he supposed to say to the kids. I agree he should have left but, at the same time the guy (as an adult) has to portray some sort of aura to the kids. This would be the same to me as a parent who is coddling a child when the other parent is is surgery because of a car wreck.

"I have an urgent matter to attend to. I must excuse myself. It has been a pleasure spending time with you all today."

Ta-fucking-da. It's not rocket science. And the kids will not be emotionally distraught over him leaving. Especially since they just think he has 'big, secret stuff to do' and they'd find out later what went on. This should occur to anyone in a split moment.

Those 7 minutes, while grating, didn't and wouldn't have changed the outcome. Really are we so petty that now we are going to nitpick 7 minutes 3 years after the event? Let's talk about all the boneheaded things he's done in the other 2103788 minutes of his term

-->

How, exactly, are we supposed to know what he would have done had he spent those seven minutes more productively? Seems to me, though, that the point is they could have been spent more productively, just by doing *anything*.

or

Military pilots must have "permission from the White House because only the president has the authority to order a civilian aircraft shot down." [CNN, 10/26/99] But if retaliatory strikes needed to the authorized, Bush was not available. If one of the planes had to be shot down to save more lives on the ground, Bush was not available. Although several fighters had been dispatched to defend New York City, the pilot of one of the planes flying to catch Flight 175 later noted that it wouldn't have mattered if he caught up with it, because only Bush could order a shootdown, and Bush could not be reached in the classroom. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02]

Whichever you like more.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Couldn't be reached in the classroom but, everyone knew where he was. Ok, whatever.
How about this vote against him this year and I'll do the same.

 

[Spectral Glider]

7 minutes wasn't enough time for Bush to get all his people together and ask, "What the hell is going on and what do we do about it?" 2 minutes, 7 mintues, 15 minutes, it makes no difference cause he would have had zero accurate knowledge of what was going down and wouldn't know what to do about it anyway. Not to mention his safety would have topped the list anyway. I'm sure everyone would love to have the Hollywood ideal of Harrison Ford as the president who has all the immeidate answers and can just punch out the bad guy, but it doesn't work like that in the real world.

I'd rather get more pissed off what this government didn't do for the 8 years after the first attack on the WTC rather than sit here crying over the 7 minutes after the horses already got out of the barn on 9/11. Don't really see the point.

 

[xsarien]

I'd rather get more pissed off what this government didn't do for the 8 years after the first attack on the WTC rather than sit here crying over the 7 minutes after the horses already got out of the barn on 9/11. Don't really see the point.

Psst.

I'll let you in on a little secret, don't tell anyone...

Al-Qaeda didn't attack the WTC in '93. The people who did were swiftly rounded up, tried (remember when we did that to suspects, from robbery to terrorism?), and thrown into federal, pound-them-in-the-ass prison faster than you can say "I Love New York."


(Furthermore, I love how this is all Clinton's fault, when Bush had it - literally - spelled out for him in black and white in August.)

 

[Socreges]

7 minutes wasn't enough time for Bush to get all his people together and ask, "What the hell is going on and what do we do about it?" 2 minutes, 7 mintues, 15 minutes, it makes no difference cause he would have had zero accurate knowledge of what was going down and wouldn't know what to do about it anyway. Not to mention his safety would have topped the list anyway. I'm sure everyone would love to have the Hollywood ideal of Harrison Ford as the president who has all the immeidate answers and can just punch out the bad guy, but it doesn't work like that in the real world.

I'd rather get more pissed off what this government didn't do for the 8 years after the first attack on the WTC rather than sit here crying over the 7 minutes after the horses already got out of the barn on 9/11. Don't really see the point.

I like how people read the entire thread before making sweeping comments. Yeah, I like it a lot.

 

[Santo]

7 minutes wasn't enough time for Bush to get all his people together and ask, "What the hell is going on and what do we do about it?" 2 minutes, 7 mintues, 15 minutes, it makes no difference cause he would have had zero accurate knowledge of what was going down and wouldn't know what to do about it anyway. Not to mention his safety would have topped the list anyway. I'm sure everyone would love to have the Hollywood ideal of Harrison Ford as the president who has all the immeidate answers and can just punch out the bad guy, but it doesn't work like that in the real world.

I'd rather get more pissed off what this government didn't do for the 8 years after the first attack on the WTC rather than sit here crying over the 7 minutes after the horses already got out of the barn on 9/11. Don't really see the point.

Isn't there something on the forum that prohibits kids under 13 from registering without parental consent? or did you bypass that?! I'm calling your parents!!!

 

[fart]

Couldn't be reached in the classroom but, everyone knew where he was. Ok, whatever.
How about this vote against him this year and I'll do the same.

he couldn't be handed a phone in the classroom and he hadn't excused himself from the classroom (we will leave the murky "why wasn't he forcibly evacuated" alone, because fuck if anyone will ever know what was up with that). thusly, he couldn't be reached.

 

[Hitokage]

Something from everyone's favorite anti-pundit:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh062904.shtml

 

[Spectral Glider]

Psst.

I'll let you in on a little secret, don't tell anyone...

Al-Qaeda didn't attack the WTC in '93. The people who did were swiftly rounded up, tried (remember when we did that to suspects, from robbery to terrorism?), and thrown into federal, pound-them-in-the-ass prison faster than you can say "I Love New York."


(Furthermore, I love how this is all Clinton's fault, when Bush had it - literally - spelled out for him in black and white in August.)

OK, I'll pretend for a minute that Islamic extremists weren't involved in the 93 bombing. Also, the 8 years I referred to includes Democratic and Republican reigns in the white house. Choose to only see what you will though.

I like how people read the entire thread before making sweeping comments.

Umm, why don't you read the entire thread and realize how it degenerated into a pissing contest about how big a failure or not those 7 mintues were.

Isn't there something on the forum that prohibits kids under 13 from registering without parental consent?

No there isn't, but there should be one that prohibits lame, tired internet insults from 1995.

 

[xsarien]

OK, I'll pretend for a minute that Islamic extremists weren't involved in the 93 bombing. Also, the 8 years I referred to includes Democratic and Replublican reigns in the white house. Choose to only see what you will though.

Are you really so daft to believe that all Islamic extremists are members of Al Qaeda? The ones that hit the WTC were from that far away, foreign land called New Jersey, led by a blind cleric who didn't quite have his priorities in order. Would you like to bomb the Garden State now?

 

[Hitokage]

No there isn't, but there should be one that prohibits lame, tired internet insults from 1995.

Half right. We prohibit those of under the age 13, period.. none of that nonsense about parental consent. It's the last line of the ToS, btw.

 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaida#Al-Qaida_terrorist_actions

Al-Qaida terrorist actions

The first terrorist attack that al-Qaida allegedly carried out consisted of three bombings which were targeted at US troops in Aden, Yemen, in December 1992. Two Austrian tourists died in the bombing.

They claim to have shot down US helicopters and killed US servicemen in Somalia in 1993. It is also sometimes suggested that they were involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Al-Qaida members Ramzi Yousef, who was involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and Khalid Sheik Mohammed planned Operation Bojinka, a plot to destroy airplanes in mid-Pacific flight using explosives. An apartment fire in Manila, Philippines exposed the plan before it could be carried out. Youssef was arrested, but Mohammed evaded capture until 2003.

They are believed to be responsible for a bombing at a U.S. military facility in Riyadh in November 1995, which killed two people from India and five Americans. Al-Qaida is also thought to be responsible for the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing which killed American military personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.

Al-Qaida is believed to have conducted the bombings in August 1998 of the US embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing more than 300 people and injuring more than 5,000 others.

On January 3, 2000, al-Qaida also planned attacks against US and Israeli tourists visiting Jordan for millennial celebrations, however the Jordanian authorities thwarted the planned attacks and put 28 suspects on trial. Al-Qaida also attempted the bombing of the Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California during the millennium holiday, although the bomber Ahmed Ressam was caught at the US-Canadian border with bombs in the trunk of his car. Also, al-Qaida planned to attack USS The Sullivans, but that effort failed due to too much weight being put on the small boat meant to bomb the ship.

For more information about those three plots, see: 2000 celebration terrorist attacks plot

They are also thought to be responsible for the October 2000 USS Cole bombing. German police foiled a plot to destroy a cathedral in Strasbourg, France in December 2000. That plot was probably being carried out by al-Qaida. See: Strasbourg cathedral bombing plot

The most destructive terrorist act ascribed to al-Qaida was the series of attacks in the USA on September 11th, 2001, an attack the group's spokesman Sulaiman Abu Ghaith defended on widely-distributed videos in October 2001.

Several attacks and attempted attacks since September 11, 2001 have been attributed to al-Qaida. The first of which was the Paris embassy terrorist attack plot, which was foiled. The second of which involved the attempted shoe bomber Richard Reid (who proclaimed himself a follower of Osama bin Laden — he got close to destroying American Airlines Flight 63)

More subsequent plots included the synagogue bombing in Djerba, Tunisia and attempted attacks in Jordan, Indonesia, Morocco, and Singapore. See: Singapore embassies terrorist attack plot. The network has also been implicated in the Limburg tanker bombing, of complicity in the kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl and suspected of complicity in the October 2002 Bali car bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia. Al-Qaida was also involved in the assassination of US diplomat Laurence Foley in Jordan, a terrorist car bombing in Kenya in November 2002, the Riyadh Compound Bombings, and the Istanbul Bombings in Istanbul, Turkey, in 2003.

Al-Qaida has a worldwide reach, with cells in a number of countries and strong ties to Sunni extremist networks. Bin Laden and his lieutenants took shelter in Afghanistan during the Taliban regime in the 1990s. The group had a number of terrorist training camps there, and in the late 1990s the Taliban itself became effectively subordinate to al-Qaida. Since the American attack, members of the group are suspected of fleeing to the tribal areas of the Northwest Frontier Province and Baluchistan, Pakistan.

Al-Qaida has strong links with a number of other Islamic terrorist organizations including the Indonesian Islamic extremist group Jemaah Islamiyah.

Organizational specialists point out al-Qaida's network structure, as opposed to hierarchical structure is both its strength and a weakness. The decentralized structure enables al-Qaida to have a worldwide base; however, acts involving a high degree of organization, such as the September 11 attacks, take time and effort. American efforts to disrupt al-Qaida have been partially successful. Attacks made by al-Qaida since then have been simpler and involved fewer persons.

The UN Security Council, on January 16, 2002, unanimously established an arms embargo and the freezing of assets of bin Laden, al-Qaida, and the remaining Taliban.

In the aftermath of several March 11, 2004 attacks on commuter trains in Madrid, a London newspaper reported receiving an email from a group affiliated with al-Qaida, claiming responsibility and a videotape claiming responsibility was also found.

 

[xsarien]

Wikipedia's largely a combined effort, as useful as it is, there are bound to be some stray facts and quarter-truths. The WTC '93 "link" to AQ is through Yousef, but he wasn't a member, his uncle was...allegedly. Regardless of that, because the facts are sketchy from the most reliable of sources, and vary quite a bit: The mastermind of the operation, the guy who planned it from start to finish wasn't a member of bin Laden's organization. It wasn't an AQ operation proper. It's like saying that the Foo Fighters caused Queens of the Stone Age.