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While homelessness surges in Disneyland's shadow, Anaheim removes bus benches.

KSweeley

Member
Link: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-anaheim-bus-stops-20170715-story.html

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Anaheim is experience homeless sleeping around Disneyland, in response to the homeless, they removed bus benches that the homeless was sleeping on, this has sparked protests, the two pictures above were taken at one of these protests:

Sweat rolled down Ron Jackson’s face as he pondered, as he does every day just steps from “the Happiest Place on Earth,” where he would sleep.

The homeless man’s hangout in Anaheim had until recently been a grimy bus bench across the street from Disneyland.

Then, one day, the benches around the amusement park — including his regular spot outside of a 7-Eleven at Harbor Boulevard and Katella Avenue — disappeared.

Soon, people were competing for pavement.


“No more sleeping spot. Just concrete,” Jackson, 47, said on a sweltering day. “There were already people claiming the space

The vanishing benches were Anaheim’s response to complaints about the homeless population around Disneyland. Public work crews removed 20 benches from bus shelters after callers alerted City Hall to reports of vagrants drinking, defecating or smoking pot in the neighborhood near the amusement park’s entrance, officials said.

The situation is part of a larger struggle by Orange County to deal with a rising homeless population. A survey last year placed the number of those without shelter at 15,300 people, compared with 12,700 two years earlier.

Cleaning up Disney’s home

Anaheim is Orange County’s largest city and home to Disneyland, one of the region’s biggest draws and tax generators. The city has spent more than two decades trying to clean up the area around the park — once noted for run-down motels and prostitution — into a family-friendly, tourist-oriented “resort district.”

“It breaks our heart to have to remove those benches,” said Mike Lyster, a city spokesman. “But their purpose is to provide seating for someone waiting for a bus.”

He stressed that the bench removal was not tied to concerns about Disneyland visitors. “We’re not taking this action because of tourism. We never had a request from Disney,” Lyster said. “But we did hear from small shop owners and motel owners about the safety issues so we stepped up.”

Homeless advocates said Anaheim is just one of multiple cities along Beach Boulevard, one of the county’s busiest thoroughfares, to cut down on bus benches.

Some visitors to Disneyland said they appreciated the reason Anaheim removed benches.

“It’s a good idea,” says Walton Guerrero, 59, of El Paso. He and 10 members of his family arrived in town for five days packed with Disneyland rides. “This is a tourist place. We need more security so everyone can come back

Pushing a stroller carrying his newest grandchild, 4-month-old Samuel, Guerrero said: “We need to feel like we can bring older people and younger people here. We don’t want the kids to be exposed to bad activity
 

RS4-

Member
Maybe they should spend money on taking care of the homeless instead of trying to do this shit.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Maybe they should spend money on taking care of the homeless instead of trying to do this shit.

The middle class and upper middle class does not want to help the lower classes, they just want to gain more wealth for theirs and their own.
 

Aikidoka

Member
A complete dick move. I feel like Disney would have some resources to help diminish the homeless problem, yet they are just wasting time making the homeless QoL even worse. On a related note, it's so terrible seeing those bars being put on bus benches too.
 

Brinbe

Member
SMFH... this makes my blood boil. Yet another example of this selfish and toxic 'fuck the poor' mentality. Shit like that is why America will never live up to this exceptional self-image that it loves to propagate.
 
A complete dick move. I feel like Disney would have some resources to help diminish the homeless problem, yet they are just wasting time making the homeless QoL even worse. On a related note, it's so terrible seeing those bars being put on bus benches too.


Huh? Disney more than likely has resources to help out or donate to shelters for the homeless but since when have the homeless become Disney's responsibility? Some backwards thinking here. Disney is here to put smile on kids faces and make a bucket ton of money while doing it. Homeless folks interfere with that when they're just bumming around.

Instead of removing park benches they (Disney) could turn it into good PR and donate to homeless shelters but it isn't Disney's responsibility to make QoL better for homeless folks. To be fair I had seen homeless out in LA until this past May when I traveled out west and it's bad. Those mofos look cooked, fried even. My boy was like it's the sun.

Still think Philly has it worst tho. They're was a park on Philly just full of them sleeping on park benches.
 

banktree

Banned
I'm trying to figure out where this is Disney's fault and not Anaheim's Government. Did Disney actually cause the homeless problem? Homeless need shelters to go to and treatment for the issues that caused them to become homeless in the first place, not benches.

Easier to go after the easy target, I guess.
 
It seems to me like homelessness is a very complicated issue and honestly I have no idea who is supposed to fix it and how. You'd think Disney would have a vested interest in clearing these people out but wouldn't be stupid enough to think the bus seats would be enough to clear them away from the money funnel that is Disneyland. I don't seem them really having as much involvement as people might take from the title of the article.

Some of the opinions offered in the article were really fucking stupid though.

”It's a good idea," says Walton Guerrero, 59, of El Paso. He and 10 members of his family arrived in town for five days packed with Disneyland rides. ”This is a tourist place. We need more security so everyone can come back."

Who do you think these people are?
 
It seems to me like homelessness is a very complicated issue and honestly I have no idea who is supposed to fix it and how. You'd think Disney would have a vested interest in clearing these people out but wouldn't be stupid enough to think the bus seats would be enough to clear them away from the money funnel that is Disneyland. I don't seem them really having as much involvement as people might take from the title of the article.

* Living wedges
* Free healthcare
* Free education
* Taxing accordingly
* Ditch the "free market" fairy tale.

You know, like a first world country!
 

KSweeley

Member
It seems to me like homelessness is a very complicated issue and honestly I have no idea who is supposed to fix it and how. You'd think Disney would have a vested interest in clearing these people out but wouldn't be stupid enough to think the bus seats would be enough to clear them away from the money funnel that is Disneyland. I don't seem them really having as much involvement as people might take from the title of the article.

Another money funnel for Anaheim is their convention center, hosts a lot of fandom events and fandom events are reported to be known for their strong economic impact for their host cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim_Convention_Center

Anaheim Convention Center is a major convention center in Anaheim, California. It is located across from the Disneyland Resort on Katella Avenue. The original components, designed by Adrian Wilson & Associates, opened in July 1967—including a basketball arena followed shortly by the convention hall. It holds many events, like VidCon, BlizzCon, Anime Expo, WonderCon, etc.

Disney's inaugural D23 Expo, a biennial convention for Disney fans, was held at the Anaheim Convention Center in 2009. The convention center has hosted all subsequent D23 Expos.

So where is all the money coming from events such as D23 Expo, VidCon, BlizzCon, Anime Expo, WonderCon is going towards? That should be enough to try to assist with the homeless.
 
Does Disney contribute to local government? If so, why is this their fault? I sincerely doubt Disney is not involved in charitable contributions on top of their state and local taxes.
 
I'm trying to figure out where this is Disney's fault and not Anaheim's Government. Did Disney actually cause the homeless problem? Homeless need shelters to go to and treatment for the issues that caused them to become homeless in the first place, not benches.

Easier to go after the easy target, I guess.

Funny part is it says right in the op
We never had a request from Disney
 

kirblar

Member
I'm trying to figure out where this is Disney's fault and not Anaheim's Government. Did Disney actually cause the homeless problem? Homeless need shelters to go to and treatment for the issues that caused them to become homeless in the first place, not benches.

Easier to go after the easy target, I guess.
Disney can try and help but CA has a lot of governance issues, some shared with other dense liberal areas, others unique to it (the referendum system that heavily limits the state's ability to raise revenue.)
 
* Living wages
* Free healthcare
* Free education
* Taxing accordingly
* Ditch the "free market" fairy tale.

You know, like a first world country!

Sure, but you have to be more pragmatic than that, in a way that I don't know how. The people of Anaheim/Orange County/US are not going to flip to those ideals on a time. I'm sure a city council member of one of these cities would laugh you into Canada if you gave this checklist to them and told them "here! I've solved the homeless problem!"
 
What kind of benches did they have over there that sleeping on them was better than on the ground? All the benches I see in LA are way too short for an adult to be able to lie down on and/or there are ridges or bars in between seats, so sleeping on them is impossible.
 

Aikidoka

Member
It seems to me like homelessness is a very complicated issue and honestly I have no idea who is supposed to fix it and how. You'd think Disney would have a vested interest in clearing these people out but wouldn't be stupid enough to think the bus seats would be enough to clear them away from the money funnel that is Disneyland. I don't seem them really having as much involvement as people might take from the title of the article.

Some of the opinions offered in the article were really fucking stupid though.



Who do you think these people are?

I believe there have been studies showing that it's cheaper to actually give homeless people homes than it is to have them living in the street (I heard of this from Adam Conover's show/podcast). There are some organizations dedicated to this. I don't know if the innate complications of why people are homeless is the biggest barrier so much as the gut reaction people have against welfare.
 

Tagyhag

Member
“We’re not taking this action because of tourism. We never had a request from Disney,” Lyster said. “But we did hear from small shop owners and motel owners about the safety issues so we stepped up.”

Disney doesn't have to do a damn thing. Not only is this not their fault, they already do other charities.
 
What kind of benches did they have over there that sleeping on them was better than on the ground? All the benches I see in LA are way too short for an adult to be able to lie down on and/or there are ridges or bars in between seats, so sleeping on them is impossible.

Cold ground will suck all the heat from your body putting you at risk for becoming ill.
 

Ashhong

Member
What kind of benches did they have over there that sleeping on them was better than on the ground? All the benches I see in LA are way too short for an adult to be able to lie down on and/or there are ridges or bars in between seats, so sleeping on them is impossible.

I don't have a picture but the benches are much better than LAs. And yea, at night I think every bench is taken by a homeless person sleeping on it. It's quite sad. Nowhere near what I see in LA though
 
Hope it's not true but many of these protesters would likely be against new housing developments being built. It's a pattern I noticed across many cities and especially liberal ones: they make an outcry about the increasing homeless population but when tasked with building more units to address it, they are also the first ones to oppose it.

This image for example was being distributed by a socialist group in SF:


Many liberals and lefties are now increasingly the reason why we can't solve the current housing crisis.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Hope it's not true but many of these protesters would likely be against new housing developments being built. It's a pattern I noticed across many cities and epsecially liberal ones: they make an outcry about the increasing homeless population but when tasked with building more units to address it, they are also the first ones to oppose it.

This image for example was being distributed by a socialist group in SF:
The AntiFa assholes were recently protesting at a SF YIMBY meeting. They were literally chanting for the death of a speakers baby.

It is merely two opposing economic groups, the ones who currently have want to retain all the benefits for themselves without any of the costs.

Anyway today's luxury housing is tomorrow's affordable housing.
 
Yeah, I'm kinda confused by most of the responses here. It was the neighboring businesses who complained, not Disney. It was the city that took action over city property, not Disney.
This shouldn't be a surprise or confusing; people here just don't read the OP. If anything, it's ironic since a forum is primarily text based that you'd think reading would be prevalent.
 

g11

Member
To be fair, with the title and the images of homeless with signs blaming Disney, it's not hard to figure out how people would come to that conclusion. Still, yeah, people should read the OP or better yet the full article.
 

ericexpo

Member
It's hard building homes for the homeless cause ether they don't get the proper funding after construction or the homeless many times don't go to shelters.
The best program I've seen is where a church in Philly offers dinners and provides clothes and job partnerships
 
Hope it's not true but many of these protesters would likely be against new housing developments being built. It's a pattern I noticed across many cities and especially liberal ones: they make an outcry about the increasing homeless population but when tasked with building more units to address it, they are also the first ones to oppose it.

This image for example was being distributed by a socialist group in SF:



Many liberals and lefties are now increasingly the reason why we can't solve the current housing crisis.
They aren't against new affordable housing being built... they're against shitty yuppie apartments being thrown up in neighborhoods causing increased gentrification.

It's always some development group from out of state that comes in, lobby for permits that locals can't fight against, then proceed to build overpriced condos that most can't afford. Then all the rent goes up

You notice every time people get pissed about this it isn't something that is actually benefiting the area.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
None of those things statistically reduce homelessness.

Contrary to popular belief. The USA does not have a homeless problem as bad as UK, Australia, or Canada even.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

People regularly conflate the affordable housing crisis with homelessness. Chronic homelessness is a completely different problem to solve, although there are still benefits (in that there are still a significant number of people who are temporarily homeless who would be helped out.)

Hope it's not true but many of these protesters would likely be against new housing developments being built. It's a pattern I noticed across many cities and especially liberal ones: they make an outcry about the increasing homeless population but when tasked with building more units to address it, they are also the first ones to oppose it.

This image for example was being distributed by a socialist group in SF:



Many liberals and lefties are now increasingly the reason why we can't solve the current housing crisis.

Here in New York the discontinuity that gets me is hipster artists supposedly aligning themselves with the poor in regards to affordable rent, when stuff they want (like cheap studio space, etc.) is not really what longtime residents are actually interested in.

They aren't against new affordable housing being built... they're against shitty yuppie apartments being thrown up in neighborhoods causing increased gentrification.

It's always some development group from out of state that comes in, lobby for permits that locals can't fight against, then proceed to build overpriced condos that most can't afford. Then all the rent goes up

You notice every time people get pissed about this it isn't something that is actually benefiting the area.

Yes and no. The problem is the most effective strategy for reducing housing costs is increasing supply versus demand. Building luxury homes doesn't immediately impact this because affordable housing comes from those properties depreciating in value. The problem is that alternatives beyond the "trickle down" approach come with drawbacks (rent controls really just squeeze the balloon, making rent affordable for some but less affordable for vastly more people; unless you've never opened up a book on urban policy it should be obvious how government housing has not been a panacea, et al.)

But this is where the problems with SF and LA come in—they had years and decades to plan accordingly, and now even if you started building crappy plywood dwellings you're still years in the hole to getting a healthy market for all income brackets.
 

TheYanger

Member
Man, L.A. and San Francisco are dire! I expected that, though.

But yeah, I completely understand why these people are angry. Do people really find fear in the fact that homeless are going to intrude on Disneyland? Yikes.

As someone that goes to disney multiple times a year but isn't local....yes? I mean, it's REALLY bad the past 10-15 years and gets worse every time. It's not just homeless people, it's generally just becoming more and more kind of run down, after being cleaned up a lot since I was a little kid. I have zero doubt that it affects the businesses in the area more than it affects Disney, too, since it's literally right outside their doorsteps that you have people sleeping, or on the benches right outside, or standing around in the doorways, etc. That is absolutely intimidating to most people, and as I'm sure we're all aware plenty of homeless people have mental health issues that need to be taken care of (whcih is its own issue) - I've seen MANY, MANY homeless people who were basically acting crazy to tourists and locals and everyone else on the corners in the area. It's not particularly inviting in the least.

I've seen ambulances having to carry off these same people from the bus stop benches in the evening, yes plural, and I'm literally there for like...less than 2 weeks a year. I empathize with the people being affected, but to pretend it isn't a problem is no good either. Solutions aren't easy.
 

Syriel

Member
They aren't against new affordable housing being built... they're against shitty yuppie apartments being thrown up in neighborhoods causing increased gentrification.

It's always some development group from out of state that comes in, lobby for permits that locals can't fight against, then proceed to build overpriced condos that most can't afford. Then all the rent goes up

You notice every time people get pissed about this it isn't something that is actually benefiting the area.

In SF it really is about any sort of development. It has nothing to do with affordability.

Case in point (from last summer/fall) there were a number of protests in the Mission against a project that is 100% affordable housing for seniors.

"Too tall," "more congestion," and "it'll ruin my views!" were common reasons for the protest.

https://sf.curbed.com/2016/10/6/13189882/1296-shotwell-affordable-housing-opposition

SF is ALL about NIMBYism.
 
As someone that goes to disney multiple times a year but isn't local....yes? I mean, it's REALLY bad the past 10-15 years and gets worse every time. It's not just homeless people, it's generally just becoming more and more kind of run down, after being cleaned up a lot since I was a little kid. I have zero doubt that it affects the businesses in the area more than it affects Disney, too, since it's literally right outside their doorsteps that you have people sleeping, or on the benches right outside, or standing around in the doorways, etc. That is absolutely intimidating to most people, and as I'm sure we're all aware plenty of homeless people have mental health issues that need to be taken care of (whcih is its own issue) - I've seen MANY, MANY homeless people who were basically acting crazy to tourists and locals and everyone else on the corners in the area. It's not particularly inviting in the least.

I've seen ambulances having to carry off these same people from the bus stop benches in the evening, yes plural, and I'm literally there for like...less than 2 weeks a year. I empathize with the people being affected, but to pretend it isn't a problem is no good either. Solutions aren't easy.

I imagined it was bad, but that's a shame that it's becoming worse than I thought. If it starts to intrude on people's safety that's not a good thing. But....like you said, these people need help as much as tourists needs to be safe. Little wonder when my family goes, they stay on the resort property. It can get pretty depressing outside the area.
 
None of those things statistically reduce homelessness.

Contrary to popular belief. The USA does not have a homeless problem as bad as UK, Australia, or Canada even.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

I call bullshit on that. Source is a singular quoted number in a "National Alliance to end homelessness" report, which is not a government resource. Aside from small sample effects, there is just no way that a homelessness statistic of 'only 500k' on a single January night as a maxim is accurate. It also ignores the use of prison as a way to have a shelter, which is something homeless people tend to prefer over freezing to death.
And with mentioning that, that might also explain the lower number: they only count people specifically entering a shelter, who aren't using a variant of it somewhere else, like family and friends. As such, this number isn't even remotely a suitable to determine or get a handle on the concept of homelessness.
The European way of tracking tends to be by person and their registered address, with the shelter data just being a subset to compare with. It's comparing apples and oranges, on a time scale that says nothing.

But nice try to fly-by discredit otherwise proven sensible policies in other countries.
(greatest country in the world, right?)

btw, the report goes on to mention 7 million Americans were 'shacked up' with relatives, and the primary reason the shelter number is that low is due to the unexpectedly low unemployment numbers of the US. As is fairly common knowledge at this point: people don't need to be homeless when they have jobs, even if it's by paying rent to relatives.
But that also means that any change in that employment number for the worse will quickly change the homeless number.

additionally, the two targets you cherry picked to discredit these points are the only two other Western countries on the planet to get weird about very select ones, like a steady minimum wage, which the UK doesn't have. Canada is similar to that.
Everybody else in the 'west', in this case confined to Europe, is within the 0.2% number and is likely tracked in a more reliable manner over a longer time to boot.
 
They aren't against new affordable housing being built... they're against shitty yuppie apartments being thrown up in neighborhoods causing increased gentrification.

It's always some development group from out of state that comes in, lobby for permits that locals can't fight against, then proceed to build overpriced condos that most can't afford. Then all the rent goes up

You notice every time people get pissed about this it isn't something that is actually benefiting the area.

This. Shit just makes even more poor people due to yuppie pads bumping up the rent ceiling for everyone. More housing is needed, just not the kind that is actually being built.
 
None of those things statistically reduce homelessness.

Contrary to popular belief. The USA does not have a homeless problem as bad as UK, Australia, or Canada even.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That pretty good for the US despite California hurting our stats. Up to 80% though in some African nations. I don't think Central or western Africa will be an emerging market in my lifetime. They may be centuries away


related: Some anti-homeless benches in China. They look pretty sleek.

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I have also seen a lot of these bus benches around the US in major cities

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a lot more humane than the coin-op bench that requires you to pay money to remove the spikes!!

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