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[reggieandTFE]

And shit, I didn't say that Fox wasn't leaning! Yes, Fox News has a right winged bias, that isn't the point I was trying to make! Read my post next time.

You said "huh" and highlighted one arbitrary fact from a news article.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Again, "the statistics go against my opinion, so they must be made up." Great, if that's true, then it is.

What about my main argument that everything other than FNC is true and a great source of news?

huh? i didn't say they were made up. i'm actually using them to support my argument.


here:

On CNN, by contrast, there was a 22-point disparity in the percentage of negative stories on Obama (39 percent) and McCain (61 percent). The disparity was even greater at MSNBC, according to Pew, where just 14 percent of Obama stories were negative, compared to a whopping 73 percent of McCain stories -- a spread of 59 points.

McCain's campaign crashed and burned in an insane manner. thus it would seem logical that most of the negative stories would be about him.

yet...

40 percent of Fox News stories on Obama in the last six weeks of the campaign were negative. Similarly, 40 percent of Fox News' stories on Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, were negative.

somehow Fox found enough negative stories about Obama to balance out the colossal fuck ups of McCain.. especially during the last six weeks.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

No one is against fox souly because they're biased. There against it because it perpetuates falsehoods and resembles a propaganda mill.

Those you listed do not.

Are you serious? The Daily Kos doesn't perpetuate anything? How are you that broken?

 

[Earthstrike]

You know what this whole thing basically boils down to? Libs think Fox news is bias and spreads False news, conservatives think CNN and the others are owned by the libs and spread false news, and the reality is that both sides are correct. There is no un-bias News media in the US at all, all of them lean towards one political philosophy and that is fact. So the Democratic Leadership is now calling Fox out, no duh since its an conservative outlet. Next Election maybe it will be CNN on the target block again, if we get an conservative president. nothing new or shocking here, just further proof of how fucked up US politics are these days and well, always have been.

Libs think fox is biased. Cons think Cnn is biased.

It's a wash.

...


Until you define bias in a measurable and attempt to measure the magnitude of it on a per station basis.

 

[ViperVisor]

What about my main argument that everything other than FNC is true and a great source of news?

It is a ridiculous strawman. Most all of us here are fans of Daily Show and the skewering they do of the News media as a whole. Tucker DICK Carlson has been employed by most of them.

 

[Firestorm]

You know what this whole thing basically boils down to? Libs think Fox news is bias and spreads False news, conservatives think CNN and the others are owned by the libs and spread false news, and the reality is that both sides are correct. There is no un-bias News media in the US at all, all of them lean towards one political philosophy and that is fact. So the Democratic Leadership is now calling Fox out, no duh since its an conservative outlet. Next Election maybe it will be CNN on the target block again, if we get an conservative president. nothing new or shocking here, just further proof of how fucked up US politics are these days and well, always have been.

Most news networks are shit and lean towards what the public wants to hear (OBAMA IS A GOD!) to sell more ads. Fox is shitty in that they are there to further their agenda no matter what.

Journalism has been "Americanized". Capitalism at its best. There is no major network that does journalism for the public good.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

You said "huh" and highlighted one arbitrary fact from a news article.

Yes, I did. And again, yes FOX NEWS HAS A RIGHT WINGED BIAS!

The point I was trying to make is that they aren't the only news source that has a bias. They all do, yet, most on GAF attack Fox News for their bias without realizing that their own news source has one as well.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of putting down one news source, while promoting another.

 

[Jonm1010]

Are you serious? The Daily Kos doesn't perpetuate anything? How are you that broken?

The daily kos may have more leniant factual guidelines( idk) and a couple you listed have Strong bias, but the rest of the shit your attempting to poison the well by way of association(conflating politico and NPR with the kos) doesn't. And your tactics are elementary.


Give up before someone with more time on their hands thoroughly embarasses you and your shit argument.

 

[Firestorm]

We know they're not the only network with a bias, jesus. My most watched "political" show on TV is The Daily Show. I know it has a liberal bias. I know Jon Stewart is liberal. He tells us he is liberal. However, he doesn't go up and create a fucking "grassroots" protest chain, cover it, then bitch about others being too biased to cover it.

The problem with Fox News isn't that they're biased. It's that they're effectively a part of the propaganda arm of the Republican party disguised as a news network. They are there to create news, not report it. HEY OBAMA WHERE IS YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

Really? Really?

Edit: I love this segment: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-13-2006/the-question-mark
A good example of the bullshit Fox pulls all the time.

 

[zoku88]

Again, "the statistics go against my opinion, so they must be made up." Great, if that's true, then it is.

What about my main argument that everything other than FNC is true and a great source of news?

If you read what he said, he never said the statistics are false, just that they don't mean what you think they mean (or what Fox thinks they support.)

 

[ShadyMilkman]

The daily kos may have more leniant factualc guidelines( idk) and a couple you listed have Strong bias, but the rest of the shit your attempting to poison the well by way of association(conflating politico and NPR with the kos) doesn't. And your tactics are elementary.


Give up before someone with more time on there hands currently thoroughly embarasses you and
your shit argument.

Yep, NPR is the bastion of thoroughly straight-talk, down-the-middle politics.

"More leniant"? Holy fucking lol.

 

[Jonm1010]

Yes, I did. And again, yes FOX NEWS HAS A RIGHT WINGED BIAS!

The point I was trying to make is that they aren't the only news source that has a bias. They all do, yet, most on GAF attack Fox News for their bias without realizing that their own news source has one as well.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of putting down one news source, while promoting another.

No. What your doing is setting up a shitty strawman. Pretending that those outraged at fox are doing so simply because they have bias, that's not the argument at all. But that's what your choosing to pretend most people are arguing about.

 

[Firestorm]

Yep, NPR is the bastion of thoroughly straight-talk, down-the-middle politics.

"More leniant"? Holy fucking lol.

NPR is doing a pretty good job compared to Fox.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18108745&postcount=509

 

[Jonm1010]

Yep, NPR is the bastion of thoroughly straight-talk, down-the-middle politics.

"More leniant"? Holy fucking lol.

You know in addition to strawmen and poisoning the well, bare assertions are logical fallacies as well.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Oh christ, you're trying to take on NPR. Fuckin' what.

 

[Dresden]

Oh christ, you're trying to take on NPR. Fuckin' what.

Didn't you know? The N in NPR stands for Nazi Nigerians.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

The problem with Fox News isn't that they're biased. It's that they're effectively a part of the propaganda arm of the Republican party disguised as a news network. They are there to create news, not report it. HEY OBAMA WHERE IS YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

Attacking Fox News without attacking my argument. Yes, Fox News does dumb shit, I agree. O'Reily and Beck (irony, lol) do dumb shit. I agree with you. They are sensationalist. But still, the sites/channels/whatever I said do the same shit, so why are they given a free pass here?

 

[zoku88]

Attacking Fox News without attacking my argument. Yes, Fox News does dumb shit, I agree. O'Reily and Beck (irony, lol) do dumb shit. I agree with you. They are sensationalist. But still, the sites/channels/whatever I said do the same shit, so why are they given a free pass here?

what does NPR do?

 

[Dresden]

Attacking Fox News without attacking my argument. Yes, Fox News does dumb shit, I agree. O'Reily and Beck (irony, lol) do dumb shit. I agree with you. They are sensationalist. But still, the sites/channels/whatever I said do the same shit, so why are they given a free pass here?

I missed the part where NPR decided to create news by setting up fake grassroots organizations, then started drumming up publicity for it by covering it more than any other network.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

No. What your doing is setting up a shitty strawman. Pretending that those outraged at fox are doing so simply because they have bias, that's not the argument at all. But that's what your choosing to pretend most people are arguing about.

I understand the point you are making against me. I don't think everyone attacking Fox News is doing so because they are Liberal/what-have-you. I'm attacking the fact that people put down Fox News, but promote a source that does the same thing, but with a left-winged perspective.

 

[Clevinger]

I missed the part where NPR decided to create news by setting up fake grassroots organizations, then started drumming up publicity for it by covering it more than any other network.

Or had an anchor get caught on tape making up crowd numbers.

 

[Dresden]

I understand the point you are making against me. I don't think everyone attacking Fox News is doing so because they are Liberal/what-have-you. I'm attacking the fact that people put down Fox News, but promote a source that does the same thing, but with a left-winged perspective.

Problem is that you're trying to convince everyone that they are just as bad as Fox, when, despite the existence of bias, the degree to which all other networks engage in it is nowhere near the absurdity of Fox News.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Yes, I did. And again, yes FOX NEWS HAS A RIGHT WINGED BIAS!

The point I was trying to make is that they aren't the only news source that has a bias. They all do, yet, most on GAF attack Fox News for their bias without realizing that their own news source has one as well.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of putting down one news source, while promoting another.

It's like you people don't understand simple concepts.

WE DO NOT HATE FOX BECAUSE THEY ARE BIASED. WE KNOW MSNBC IS BIASED AS WELL.

The DIFFERENCE is that Fox News MAKES THINGS UP TO SLANDER. MSNBC does NOT. Fox News feeds to disgustingly racist dangerous people by making them think they need to rise up. MSNBC does not. MSNBC did not during even during Bush. Fox News has a host that thinks Obama hates white people. Yet he continues to have a show. MSNBC fired Don Imus for saying "nappy headed hos."

Maybe the caps lock will help get the point across.

 

[NimbusD]

I missed the part where NPR decided to create news by setting up fake grassroots organizations, then started drumming up publicity for it by covering it more than any other network.

Yeah, try spinning that.

 

[turnbuckle]

Then enlighten me, I just have the article.

And I am not defending Fox News' right wing slant, I'm attacking the fact that everyone thinks their news source of choice is perfectly fair.

So often on GAF, we read "LOL Faux News!" yet then the person saying that reads politico, Huffington Post, The Daily Kos, NPR, yadda yadda, for their main source of news.

The argument against that study that showed Fox being even on both McCain and Obama in the weeks leading up to the campaign comes from a couple of angles. Two that immediately spring to mind -

1. The # of available reasons to report negative stories on each campaign.
2. The weight of the negativity contained within the stories, and the legitimacy of the attacks.

I'm not going to do the work to link all the examples of each nor am I going to waste my time arguing my stance. Doing so will only take more time away from the work I should be doing right now and won't change the minds of people who wish to believe Fox News is just as, or nearly as, or more fair than its competitors. You fall within this category and any hope for the "enlightenment" you ask for dwindles as you engage in red herring arguments while simultaneously pretending to be above it all as you preface your defense of Fox News by saying you're not defending Fox News.

Who in here believes that their source of news is perfectly fair? There's an expansive area between perfectly fair and where Fox News sits, and the most ardent Fox News critics tend to acknowledge that even their preferred sources of news still fall within the space between those two extremes. Nobody should rely on a single source for their information. Everything should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Anywho, this all just becomes a recycling argument. There are years worth of examples of all news agencies screwing up, lying, and engaging in the political equivalent to console fanboyism. In typical console war fashion, I'd love to see a list war of examples from Fox News defenders that show other networks engaging in the same behavior Fox is being accused of...with accompanying context, of course. Even in the unlikely event that such a list could even have the possibility of showing Fox = to or better than other news programs, the proper result shouldn't be to be satisfied that one's biased news is better than the other's biased news. And that's what gets me - The most common defense I see of Fox News is not a defense of the quality and honesty within their broadcasting, but one of insisting that others are just as bad or simply part of the liberal media establishment.

 

[Firestorm]

Attacking Fox News without attacking my argument. Yes, Fox News does dumb shit, I agree. O'Reily and Beck (irony, lol) do dumb shit. I agree with you. They are sensationalist. But still, the sites/channels/whatever I said do the same shit, so why are they given a free pass here?

These other networks do not do it as consistently or on the same scale as Fox. Fox is an organization set up to do what they do best currently: spread Republican propaganda. I personally stick to reading public news (CBC in Canada, BBC for World).

Anyway, you still haven't addressed the fact that the average Fox News viewer is less informed than other networks.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Speaking of Fox News, that giant bag of shit's show is on right now. He's being overly dramatic, of course, teasing a picture of "radical people we won't believe" that he'll take the curtain down soon. Today. Maybe tomorrow.

This was just after saying the idea that Fox News is in it for the profit more than the news was a ridiculous idea. He teased the revealing of radicals in the government under a blue sheet.

 

[Jonm1010]

I understand the point you are making against me. I don't think everyone attacking Fox News is doing so because they are Liberal/what-have-you. I'm attacking the fact that people put down Fox News, but promote a source that does the same thing, but with a left-winged perspective.

the only one you may, I mean MAY have an argumentative comparison is the daily kos.

NPR, politico, huffington etc. Aren't being given talking points by the GOP or the president and asked to present the talking points in a favorable way toward the white house and their party. They aren't promoting and instigating fake grass roots movements, lying about the source of their income and legitimacy and giving them disproportinate coverage compared to similar protests in size and relevemcy. Doing so to purposefully and falsely imply these movements are larger and more significant than they are.

I could go on and on.

 

[Particle Physicist]

If you read what he said, he never said the statistics are false, just that they don't mean what you think they mean (or what Fox thinks they support.)

don't bother. he is just ignoring us now. :lol

 

[ShadyMilkman]

It's like you people don't understand simple concepts.

WE DO NOT HATE FOX BECAUSE THEY ARE BIASED. WE KNOW MSNBC IS BIASED AS WELL.

The DIFFERENCE is that Fox News MAKES THINGS UP TO SLANDER. MSNBC does NOT. Fox News feeds to disgustingly racist dangerous people by making them think they need to rise up. MSNBC does not. MSNBC did not during even during Bush. Fox News has a host that thinks Obama hates white people. Yet he continues to have a show. MSNBC fired Don Imus for saying "nappy headed hos."

Maybe the caps lock will help get the point across.

Hahahaha, pull the race card, that's the ticket. Because I watch Fox News, I'm racist?

 

[ShadyMilkman]

don't bother. he is just ignoring us now. :lol

Fuck, I'm not ignoring anyone. I can't address all posts disagreeing with me.

 

[Firestorm]

Hahahaha, pull the race card, that's the ticket. Because I watch Fox News, I'm racist?

What the fuck?
Where?
How?
Are you even...
What?

Ohhhh you're delusional. gotcha

 

[ShadyMilkman]

These other networks do not do it as consistently or on the same scale as Fox. Fox is an organization set up to do what they do best currently: spread Republican propaganda. I personally stick to reading public news (CBC in Canada, BBC for World).

Anyway, you still haven't addressed the fact that the average Fox News viewer is less informed than other networks.

Yeah, us Fox News followers are fucking neanderthal ingrates. Why is it most poor, uneducated people relying on government support happen to be liberals?

 

[Gattsu25]

Hahahaha, pull the race card, that's the ticket. Because I watch Fox News, I'm racist?

No but you're an idiot because you ignore 96% of the discussion that you've stirred up to focus solely on two lines of a 12 sentence post.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Fuck, I'm not ignoring anyone. I can't address all posts disagreeing with me.

you replied to me. i responded. you ignored the response.

where did i say the statistics were made up? you still haven't addressed what i actually said in the post.

 

[Firestorm]

Yeah, us Fox News followers are fucking neanderthal ingrates. Why is it most poor, uneducated people relying on government support happen to be liberals?

So apparently you didn't read that post at all? The one where it says it has nothing to do with being Republican or Liberal?

Again:

86% of the people who held all three misperceptions supported the war.
23% of the people who held none of the three misperceptions supported the war.

This is not a democrat-republican thing either. 54% was the average incorrect answer rate of Republicans using Fox while the average was 32% for Republicans using PBS/NPR.

Your replies make me think you believe that you yourself are Glenn Beck. You realize using an avatar doesn't make you that person right? This isn't a play we're doing here. I don't say "Charmander Char Charmander" when I type.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

What the fuck?
Where?
How?
Are you even...
What?

Ohhhh you're delusional. gotcha

He said

Fox News feeds to disgustingly racist dangerous people

How is that delusional?

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Fuck, I'm not ignoring anyone. I can't address all posts disagreeing with me.

Yeah, usually its good to say a few things, then leave and let GAF try and tear your posts apart while you sit back and have a good laugh at it. It's great entertainment, makes the time go by quicker.

 

[Firestorm]

He said

How is that delusional?

Just because you consume media does not mean that you are the target audience of that media. If you are a Republican looking merely to get external confirmation that your beliefs are "right", then yes, you are the target audience of Fox News. I myself am not the target audience of the Halo games but still enjoy them. Funny how that works. Hell, I watch The Daily Show and I'm not even American :lol I just find the state of your media to be sad (and a little frightening to be honest). I wish someone would critique our shitty media companies.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Fuck, I'm not ignoring anyone. I can't address all posts disagreeing with me.

Especially the ones asking you to explain how NPR is even remotely comparable to Fox News.

:lol

 

[ShadyMilkman]

huh? i didn't say they were made up. i'm actually using them to support my argument.


here:




McCain's campaign crashed and burned in an insane manner. thus it would seem logical that most of the negative stories would be about him.

yet...




somehow Fox found enough negative stories about Obama to balance out the colossal fuck ups of McCain.. especially during the last six weeks.

I missed your post, so I'm sorry that you think I ignored it.

You know what, touche. You make a great point that I can't refute.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Hahahaha, pull the race card, that's the ticket. Because I watch Fox News, I'm racist?

There is NO way you're this dense.

NO WHERE did I call you racist. I said Fox News feeds to racist angry people. They do. I didn't say EVERY SINGLE VIEWER OF FOX NEWS IS RACIST. But you KNOW I didn't say that. And you put words in my mouth so you could attack me instead of replying to everything else I said.

So now that I've pointed out you're wrong, how about you actually reply to the rest of my post instead of ignoring it.

Fox News makes up stories. MSNBC does not. That is why it isn't the same thing. Your turn.

 

[Timedog]

Hahahaha, pull the race card, that's the ticket. Because I watch Fox News, I'm racist?

Wow, that was possibly the dumbest thing written in the thread so far, or maybe the dumbest thing I've read on GAF all month.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

There is NO way you're this dense.

NO WHERE did I call you racist. I said Fox News feeds to racist angry people. They do. I didn't say EVERY SINGLE VIEWER OF FOX NEWS IS RACIST. But you KNOW I didn't say that. And you put words in my mouth so you could attack me instead of replying to everything else I said.

So now that I've pointed out you're wrong, how about you actually reply to the rest of my post instead of ignoring it.

Fox News makes up stories. MSNBC does not. That is why it isn't the same thing. Your turn.

I'm guessing the person you are referring to is either Beck, Hannity, or O'Reilly. Why are you taking them seriously? They are meant to do exactly what your reaction is entailing.

And you said Fox caters to dangerous racist people, how the hell else was I supposed to take that?

EDIT: they=the

 

[speculawyer]

Libs think fox is biased. Cons think Cnn is biased.

It's a wash.

It really isn't "a wash". As Colbert puts it, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

I think George Bush put it well:

Referring to the tone of national discourse he said, "I don't like it. The cables (TV) have a lot to do with it."

In the radio interview, Mr. Bush said the volume of criticism aimed at him when he was president was not as "day in and day out."

The Republican elder statesman said, "It's not just the right." He complained, "there are plenty of people on the left."

While he said he does not believe in personal name-calling, he singled out MSNBC personalities Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow calling them "sick puppies."

"The way they treat my son and anyone who's opposed to their point of view is just horrible," Mr. Bush said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5390374.shtml

Even though he is a Republican, it is clear that Bush Sr. admitted that most of the problem is on the right. (Limbaugh, Beck, etc.). Both Olbermann and Maddow are opinion people from the left. Olbermann is definitely over-the-top and uses insults, but he is pretty good about sticking to the truth. Rachel Maddow is very good about sticking to the truth and documents everything she says with links on her website.

The 'level of discourse' doesn't bother me much. Go ahead and use insults. But what matters to me is that people stick to the facts. You have the right to your own opinions, but you don't have the right to your own facts.

BTW, love the hypocrisy of this part.

While he said he does not believe in personal name-calling, he singled out MSNBC personalities Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow calling them "sick puppies."

:lol

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Wow, that was possibly the dumbest thing written in the thread so far, or maybe the dumbest thing I've read on GAF all month.

Thank you for this.

 

[MilesWebber]

Has there been any backlash or real updates about this? Or are you guys still fighting like five year old over whether or not mighty mouse could beat up superman?

 

[adamsappel]

Yep, NPR is the bastion of thoroughly straight-talk, down-the-middle politics.

You obviously don't actually listen to National Public Radio. When I want to hear from the Heritage Foundation, the CATO Institute, the Brookings Institution, American Enterprise or other conservative think tanks, I just turn on NPR.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Yes, I did. And again, yes FOX NEWS HAS A RIGHT WINGED BIAS!

The point I was trying to make is that they aren't the only news source that has a bias. They all do, yet, most on GAF attack Fox News for their bias without realizing that their own news source has one as well.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of putting down one news source, while promoting another.

It needs to be said on every page of this thread: Fox promoted the Tea Party protest, they had producers on-site whipping up the crowd. They're in a class of their own, you cannot say "they're all biased it's the same thing."

I also don't see how CNN gets tarred with this brush when they've got prime time conservative pundits.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

You obviously don't actually listen to National Public Radio. When I want to hear from the Heritage Foundation, the CATO Institute, the Brookings Institution, American Enterprise or other conservative think tanks, I just turn on NPR.

You are right, I admit I was wrong about NPR if that is what they are talking about.