The argument though is that the shittiness of MSNBC and to a lesser extent CNN is *because* of Fox News. I think the White House -- and most people here -- believe and/or hope that the disintegration of Fox would return a sense of "normalcy" to the other networks... like a lowering of everyone's blood pressure. But this is debatable, of course.Aristotlekh said:
White House: "Fox News is not a news organization"
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Particle Physicist
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The main difference between what is going on now and what the Bush administration did, is that Fox News is making a much larger hubbub over it than what MSNBC ever did. In fact, I would argue that the Bush admnistration, with the help of Fox News no less, were way more successful at marginalizing MSNBC and even CNN (to some extent) as the 'liberal media'Kaijima said:
Aristotlekh said:
CNN and MSNBC may be shit, but they resemble and typically follow the premises of a news organization, just a shitty one.
FoxNews is akin more to a propaganda mill than anything resembling a news organization, outside of its surface coating that they try to convey to convince viewers otherwise, its basically a 24 hour propaganda channel.
Anerythristic
Member
:lol , Fox at times lies and makes up stories, of course they are not a "news" network. I have no problem with the administration doing this.
They should honestly just start treating them like they would treat Access Hollywood and TMZ as an entertainment outlet.
I don't even think Fox retracts, when they get called out with proof.
They should honestly just start treating them like they would treat Access Hollywood and TMZ as an entertainment outlet.
I don't even think Fox retracts, when they get called out with proof.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
He has argued in other threads, most notably the Australian minstrel show thread, that Americans have no place criticizing certain actions of individuals in other countries since they 'don't understand the culture' or some such. Yet here he is, an Australian, getting into it about the actions of Americans. Tsk tsk I say!idahoblue said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Anerythristic said:
I agree with you. Not sure why so many people are mad. It's obvious how biased Fox News is.
Are you talking about me, or another Australian in this thread? I never said anything of the sort in the minstrel thread.quadriplegicjon said:
Umm.. I never accused anyone of the sort. But I argued that someone else's assertion that ONE of the admin's tactics is Nazi-like is not categorically untrue. Which it isn't.turnbuckle said:
BowieZ said:
Only in fantasyland ... :lol :lol :lol
I wish for real news in america. You know something more than self obsessed crap that does nobody in general any good. I wouldn't complain if the information was good but these days most cycles are filled with the same 5 minute footage with a different person putting their unwanted spin on it. Even worse is upcoming news for news. The news in the US is only good for shits and giggles on tv if you want real info you have to go smaller organizations.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Don't forget the NY Times. They aren't a real newspaper and are on the same level as the NY Post.Aristotlekh said:
Corwood Rep
Member
Jonm1010 said:
Not really, MSNBC and CNN are just as infected by horrible opinion shows as FOX is. None of the 24/7 news networks are primarily concerned with hard news, because it doesn't sell, and so a majority of the "news" is trend-driven fluff, based on giving the people what they want instead of what they need.
Edit - I like how my contempt for the American corporate 24/7 news cycle is somehow misinterpreted as a defense of FOX News. I just want somebody in high places to admit people simply shouldn't watch that shit.
RiskyChris
Banned
Aristotlekh said:
They're not even in the same ballpark, man.
Oh yeah, Keith Olbermann and his hamfisted attempts at aping Murrow's style are embarassing.
...and now I went and remembered that Lou Dobbs and his gang of sycophants exist, along with the twisted jurisprudence of Nancy Grace. I was happier living in a world without them.
...and now I went and remembered that Lou Dobbs and his gang of sycophants exist, along with the twisted jurisprudence of Nancy Grace. I was happier living in a world without them.
You should watch The Daily Show. It's a half hour show every day making fun of the same thing you hate =DAristotlekh said:
Like this one! http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/251761/mon-october-12-2009-janet-napolitano
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Once again for the 1000th time, FOX news outright lies and smears democratic leaders. MSNBC may have opinion shows but they don't make shit up and get the whole network go on a smear campaign of Republicans. Not to mention endorse Protest around the country against the president by fear mongering. Actually only a few in CNN and MSNBC even had the courage to call republicans out on their real lies unlike FOX who calls out the president for lies they make up or words take out of context confusing their illiterate audience.Aristotlekh said:
Aristotlekh said:
While all three are shit, one is pure propaganda and perpetuates half-truths and falsifiacations and we have clear evidence of them operating as such.
The other two may have their opinion shows (unlike Fox though both channels offer shows with different ideological viewpoints), but they are clearly labeled as such and it doesnt spill over into the regular news programing whereas in Fox it clearly and habitually does.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Aristotlekh said:
Well, the WH did, but only for Fox. You should be happy. Baby steps, man!
PhoenixDark
Banned
QFTHitokage said:
It's not hard to tell Fox is nothing more than a talking medium for the GOP. MSNBC and CNN display lazy journalism more interested in following whatever annoying news spin is popular: is Obama failing at bipartisanship, GOP comeback in 2010, etc.
turnbuckle
Member
Dan Rather reports on a story about Bush's military service supported by documents that proved to be phony. Gets deserved backlash, accused again of having a liberal bias and ultimately leaves CBS as a result of the whole mess.
That's fair. If you report news and it proves to be a lie, it should at least be called into question what the motives are. If you report "news" and regularly have guests and hosts that spit out already proven lies and smear/fear monger, there really are only a few options for the person/entity that's the target of those.
They could continue to say nothing - This has worked so well as evidenced by the rising ratings of Fox News. Saying nothing leaves people who view regularly to believe everything they're being told and to lash out against anyone who tries to correct whatever lies or smears that were being reported on. It also leaves leaves people who are in support of the administration to be frustrated when they don't call out the BS. If unchecked by criticism of the substance and quality of the reporting, the formula gets copied by other news agencies and we all suffer.
They could try imposing new regulations - Would anger independents and pretty much everyone else depending on the language of the regulations. It would also lend some weight to the ridiculous claims of fascism on this government.
They could do what they're doing now - At the worst, it turns off some independents and gets your opposition more angry with you. But since it's just comments made about the content of Fox News rather than a policy initiative, it changes the dialogue in the Media. It's a win for the Whitehouse and for news in general when people begin questioning the messenger.
What is the difference between calling Fox News an ideologically driven network and conservatives constantly labeling MSNBC/CNN/NY Times as the liberal media? At least with the former there's a litany of examples where even the most objective observers can see when they're being lied to, while the latter is generally more rooted in the tactics by reporters as opposed to the authenticity of what they're actually reporting on.
I would love for Fox News to channel its energy to holding Obama's feet to the fire on substantive issues. Just as we need to question the messenger, we need to have the messenger asking the right questions - and getting answers. Further, I really hate that cable news has pretty much been reduced to political opinion mixed in with some pop culture and a sprinkle of a a few outrageous stories and national disasters here and there. There's so much that can be covered in a 24 hour cycle that gets neglected, ignored, or covered up.
That's fair. If you report news and it proves to be a lie, it should at least be called into question what the motives are. If you report "news" and regularly have guests and hosts that spit out already proven lies and smear/fear monger, there really are only a few options for the person/entity that's the target of those.
They could continue to say nothing - This has worked so well as evidenced by the rising ratings of Fox News. Saying nothing leaves people who view regularly to believe everything they're being told and to lash out against anyone who tries to correct whatever lies or smears that were being reported on. It also leaves leaves people who are in support of the administration to be frustrated when they don't call out the BS. If unchecked by criticism of the substance and quality of the reporting, the formula gets copied by other news agencies and we all suffer.
They could try imposing new regulations - Would anger independents and pretty much everyone else depending on the language of the regulations. It would also lend some weight to the ridiculous claims of fascism on this government.
They could do what they're doing now - At the worst, it turns off some independents and gets your opposition more angry with you. But since it's just comments made about the content of Fox News rather than a policy initiative, it changes the dialogue in the Media. It's a win for the Whitehouse and for news in general when people begin questioning the messenger.
What is the difference between calling Fox News an ideologically driven network and conservatives constantly labeling MSNBC/CNN/NY Times as the liberal media? At least with the former there's a litany of examples where even the most objective observers can see when they're being lied to, while the latter is generally more rooted in the tactics by reporters as opposed to the authenticity of what they're actually reporting on.
I would love for Fox News to channel its energy to holding Obama's feet to the fire on substantive issues. Just as we need to question the messenger, we need to have the messenger asking the right questions - and getting answers. Further, I really hate that cable news has pretty much been reduced to political opinion mixed in with some pop culture and a sprinkle of a a few outrageous stories and national disasters here and there. There's so much that can be covered in a 24 hour cycle that gets neglected, ignored, or covered up.
ghostmind said:
The Daily Show and Colbert Report. Who actually send people to Iraq, Iran and Gay Pride Protests. Who fact check and hold accountable politicians, businessmen and news outlets alike. Most of the time, the humor comes from the hypocrisy within our reality, without the necessity of a set up or a punch line. A sad state of American journalism, when comedians, with comedy shows on a comedy network are the best we have.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
As much as I love TDS and Colbert, man, they're not a news organization and they have their own spin on things. They aren't pure or even truthful at times. They are, I think, a representation of the young generation and our views on politics, but they hold no form of journalistic integrity, and John and Steve are okay with that.
I'd say NPR is a pretty good news organization, probably our best.
I'd say NPR is a pretty good news organization, probably our best.
mike0513 said:
Is that really what you want this administration to be wasting time and resources and taxpayer money on doing? Creating a department or devoted team designed soley to wage a information war with a network TV station?
Because thats what it would essentially take to counteract the constant barrage of false attacks and half-truths.
Particle Physicist
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mike0513 said:
how?
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Didn't Outfoxed already do that? Fox News did counter their arguments.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Are there any websites that fact-checks Keith Olbermann or Rachael Maddow's claims?
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
CrazedArabMan
Member
methos75 said:
This, I know GAF hates Fox News, but seriously, all news outlets have been caught doing the same stuff Fox has done. Sure you may think they have done things that seem a lot worse than other networks but at the end of the day, all these news networks have had done some really stupid stuff in their history.
For the record, I'll say it again, they ARE a news network despite having bias. I'll leave it at that.
Particle Physicist
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CrazedArabMan said:
false equivalence. other news outlets have been caught doing some similar things as Fox News. But, Fox News does it way more often, and to a much larger scale. For instance, no other news network has created their own protests against the president, and successfully bullied the other networks to cover them as major news.
Its a futile effort. I'd just leave him alone.quadriplegicjon said:
Its like a embodiment of that thread we had a while back about that psychology study about people doubling-down on bad information when challenged about their pre-conceived notions. Yeah, hes kinda like that.
You've refuted his logic and claims, as have I and several other posters. Instead of actually addressing those rebuttals he just waited for the next yokel to come in and make the same logically weak and easily refutable argument.
Siding with that same bad argument instead of re-evaluating his outlook.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Did Fox News even have coverage of the gays in DC protesting a few weekends ago? :lol
Jason's Ultimatum said:
No. That TYT link pointed that out. I had honestly missed the blatant hypocrisy.
Basically the same number of protesters, yet they devoted a combined 4 minutes in total news time to the protest and sent no reporters to the scene.
If thats not evidence of clear agenda pushing and extreme bias than i don't know what is.
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