Support NeoGAF

[140.85]

Here?

That's IT? Weak. No wonder they fabricated stuff.

In elementary school there was this kid that hated me. The rules in floor hockey were clear during P.E. class. If you struck someones feet too hard with your stick you were out of the game. This kid would always run up to me, ram his feet into my stick and collapse on the floor in a big act as if he were in great pain. And of course the teacher would throw me out immediately.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

That's IT? Weak. No wonder they fabricated stuff.

....

oh god :lol

 

[dave is ok]

Does Fox need a defense really?

I mean, honestly, the White House is pissed because they've rightfully asserted that there's a network fully against them. Big fucking whoop. It's one thing to maybe not give them as much access but to actively fight them and tell other media to not be like them, well that's some 1983 shit, yes 1983, because it's like the year before 1984 when everything took place.

The White House is telling other networks what to do? Proof?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

That's IT? Weak. No wonder they fabricated stuff.

In elementary school there was this kid that hated me. The rules in floor hockey were clear during P.E. class. If you struck someones feet too hard with your stick you were out of the game. This kid would always run up to me, ram his feet into my stick and collapse on the floor in a big act as if he were in great pain. And of course the teacher would throw me out immediately.

So wait, you're talking about conservatives and Fox "collapsing to the floor in a big act" as though they're being persecuted, right?

 

[PantherLotus]

Does Fox need a defense really?

I mean, honestly, the White House is pissed because they've rightfully asserted that there's a network fully against them. Big fucking whoop. It's one thing to maybe not give them as much access but to actively fight them and tell other media to not be like them, well that's some 1983 shit, yes 1983, because it's like the year before 1984 when everything took place.

I do think some defense is neccessary. They're peddling anti-American propaganda as "news." I would think they'd want to defend that.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That's IT? Weak. No wonder they fabricated stuff.

Did you read the whole list? Some of that stuff is pretty bad, particularly comparing the NFL to the Crips and Bloods.

 

[140.85]

Did you read the whole list? Some of that stuff is pretty bad, particularly comparing the NFL to the Crips and Bloods.

Yep, read the whole thing. This list is more revealing of the people compiling it than it's subject.

The Crips and Bloods comment was not "hey there's a bunch of black guys on a field - it looks like gang members because, y'know - they're black guys fighting!". That is not the context of it.

 

[PantherLotus]

It's worth noting the number of people willing to defend FOXNEWS here in this thread but never both setting foot in the PoliGAF thread to assert their opinions on policy and politic. Sad, really.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yep, read the whole thing. This list is more revealing of the people compiling it than it's subject.

The Crips and Bloods comment was not "hey theres a bunch of black guys on a field - it looks like gang memebers because, y'know - they're black guys fighting!". That is not the context of it.

Are you seriously saying that Rush hasn't said more than several racist, offensive things? Even if he isn't racist himself, he's obviously a race-baiter. It requires a shockingly high amount of dissonance to think otherwise.

Also:
1. its
2. Why didn't he say the Hatfields and McCoys? Why not the Gambinos and the Corleones? C'mon, don't be dull.

 

[ViperVisor]

Yep, read the whole thing. This list is more revealing of the people compiling it than it's subject.

The Crips and Bloods comment was not "hey there's a bunch of black guys on a field - it looks like gang members because, y'know - they're black guys fighting!". That is not the context of it.

A lecture on behavior from that son of a bitch?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[CrazedArabMan]

It's worth noting the number of people willing to defend FOXNEWS here in this thread but never both setting foot in the PoliGAF thread to assert their opinions on policy and politic. Sad, really.

Not really, maybe they don't want to discuss politics, or don't feel like arguing in that thread because it is mostly filled with more left leaning people and they have better things to talk about. Heck, arguing about politics online isn't nearly as entertaining than arguing about it in real life.

 

[PantherLotus]

Not really, maybe they don't want to discuss politics, or don't feel like arguing in that thread because it is mostly filled with more left leaning people and they have better things to talk about. Heck, arguing about politics online isn't nearly as entertaining than arguing about it in real life.

That thread is extremely diverse.

 

[140.85]

Are you seriously saying that Rush hasn't said more than several racist, offensive things? Even if he isn't racist himself, he's obviously a race-baiter. It requires a shockingly high amount of dissonance to think otherwise.

He's a troll - no doubt. He loves it. That doesn't make him a racist. Again, I read every word of that link, I didn't just read the bold stuff.

Gambinos and the Corleones?

According to your logic wouldn't this also be racist?

 

[CrazedArabMan]

That thread is extremely diverse.

If you say it is, then still they don't have to post there, like I said, they may not want to discuss politics at all or just online.

 

[140.85]

"Extremely" is not the word I would choose to describe the level of diversity present in GAF political discussions. Center-Left would even be pushing it most of the time.

 

[BowieZ]

"Extremely" is not the word I would choose to describe the level of diversity present in GAF political discussions. Center-Left would even be pushing it most of the time.

This.

PantherLotus's mischaracterization of the thread is ironically at a Fox News standard.

 

[PantherLotus]

He's a troll - no doubt. He loves it. That doesn't make him a racist. Again, I read every word of that link, I didn't just read the bold stuff.



According to your logic wouldn't this also be racist?

Of course it would. The question is why he didn't choose something equally racist that represents poor white southerners or Italian mafiosos? He chose something that was provocative in the minds of his audience (what pops in your head when somebody says Bloods and Crips?) without actually saying "black people!"? It's obvious and indefensible.

 

[PantherLotus]

This.

PantherLotus's mischaracterization of the thread is ironically at a Fox News standard.

Just because low-level trolling at your low-level ability isn't accepted in there doesn't mean that it isn't diverse. If some of you want to quibble over the word "extremely," that's fine.

 

[TruHero]

What was really telling (to me anyway) was how eager Limbaugh was to play the "Barack The Magic Negro" song over & over. Delighted in doing so. Of course his defenders have a handy excuse for it though.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yep, read the whole thing. This list is more revealing of the people compiling it than it's subject.

The Crips and Bloods comment was not "hey there's a bunch of black guys on a field - it looks like gang members because, y'know - they're black guys fighting!". That is not the context of it.

I don't see how the context makes the statement less inflammatory at all. He even knows it's inflammatory when he says it. , hence his "there, I said it" bit.

It's similar to his "Thug FL" comment a few years back, or his weird projection making him think the media was propping up McNabb and then later saying "well, he improved."

Rush is both racist and a race-baiter, IMHO-- it's going to take something significant to make me think otherwise. I used to listen to him quite a but, so this isn't some opinion spoon-fed to me by Media Matters or the like-- I came to the conclusion independently.

Tangentally, I remember int he early years of his show arguing with his callers over *their* homophobia. I'm sure he's done hsi share of gay-baiting since ("special rights" and all that) but that's not something I ascribe to him as an ingrained belief.

 

[TruHero]

If you say it is, then still they don't have to post there, like I said, they may not want to discuss politics at all or just online.

But then said posters wouldn't be discussing politics in this thread either.

 

[BowieZ]

Just because low-level trolling at your low-level ability isn't accepted in there doesn't mean that it isn't diverse. If some of you want to quibble over the word "extremely," that's fine.

Low-level quibble, valid point. Tomato, tomahto. Pick your side, believe the other side is inferior.

You know how it goes.

 

[PantherLotus]

Low-level quibble, valid point. Tomato, tomahto. Pick your side, believe the other side is inferior.

You know how it goes.

Somewhere between extremely and somewhat, we can agree.

 

[PantherLotus]

But then said posters wouldn't be discussing politics in this thread either.

Exactly my point. Those people are happy to defend what they perceive as an attack against their only source of information, but can't be bothered to dig deeper and discuss the larger ramifications of what they're actually defending. Pretty standard for the FOX audience, though.

 

[mckmas8808]

He's a troll - no doubt. He loves it. That doesn't make him a racist. Again, I read every word of that link, I didn't just read the bold stuff.



According to your logic wouldn't this also be racist?

So do you think the NFL looks like a bunch of black gang members? REALLY?!

 

[PhoenixDark]

Rush is racially insensitive, I wouldn't call him racist. I hate throwing the term around. He's guilty of race baiting his audience. But honestly, I tend to think Rush's take on racial issues isn't much different than many white people's. Discussions of race often boil down to one side getting offended, feeling accused, and pulling out illogical arguments ("if a black person does x it's not racist but if a white person does x it is racist waah"). Rush is not the inventor of the White Persecution Complex, he's merely it's loudest champion.

I'm black and would love to have someone who knows something about football own my team (fuckin Lions). I'd have no problem with Rush, nor would any player in the league turn down money to take a political stance. Everyone knows that's bullshit in today's sports climate

 

[140.85]

It's obvious and indefensible.

No it isn't. Especially given the context. Intent lies with the speaker, not the listener. When intent is dictated/subjugated by the listener the concept of language itself falls apart and becomes just another tool to try to control people as we've seen in this instance.

He was using a well-known shorthand for ruffians in bemoaning what he sees as classlessness in on-field behavior. At the beginning of this rant he holds up Ladainian Tomlinson - a black man - as an example of someones behavior he admires. Given this as well as the context of the rant, it's simply irresponsible to tar it as racist.

 

[PantherLotus]

Rush is racially insensitive, I wouldn't call him racist. I hate throwing the term around. He's guilty of race baiting his audience. But honestly, I tend to think Rush's take on racial issues isn't much different than many white people's. Discussions of race often boil down to one side getting offended, feeling accused, and pulling out illogical arguments ("if a black person does x it's not racist but if a white person does x it is racist waah"). Rush is not the inventor of the White Persecution Complex, he's merely it's loudest champion.

I'm black and would love to have someone who knows something about football own my team (fuckin Lions).

Right. I'm not sure it matters if he is actually racist; what he says and does makes situations worse by using race to obscure the true issues. Saying that he represents the average white person's view, though, is inaccurate. The better statement would be, "he represents the average poor white person from rural areas."

And by "represents" we mean in voice only, not like these poor white racists are actually half-billionaires that make their livings based on making white people angry, rather than the hard working if undereducated people they are.

To the football comment: Al Davis, Dan Snyder, and Jerry Jones all know a little bit about football.

 

[PantherLotus]

No it isn't. Especially given the context. Intent lies with the speaker, not the listener. When intent is dictated/subjugated by the listener the concept of language itself falls apart.

He was using a well-known shorthand for ruffians in bemoaning what he sees as classlessness in on-field behavior. At the beginning of this rant he holds up Ladainian Tomlinson - a black man - as an example of someones behavior he admires. Given this as well as the context of the rant, it's simply irresponsible to tar it as racist.

Bloods and Crips = "shorthand for ruffians."


:lol

"OK."

 

[BowieZ]

Somewhere between extremely and somewhat, we can agree.

Umm no.

The thread is almost entirely left-leaning, dude.

ANYBODY (not just me) who dares play devil's advocate -- a valid form of argument -- let alone voices opposition, is in the extreme minority, as indicated by the chorus of rebuttals.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the rebuttals -- and I know you think those rebuttals are almost always correct because they're on your side -- but the point is there are so many of them when any opposing argument is posited that ipso facto the thread is a Left-diddly-eftorium.

 

[TruHero]

He was using a well-known shorthand for ruffians in bemoaning what he sees as classlessness in on-field behavior.

"Well known"?

To whom?

 

[mckmas8808]

Rush is racially insensitive, I wouldn't call him racist. I hate throwing the term around. He's guilty of race baiting his audience. But honestly, I tend to think Rush's take on racial issues isn't much different than many white people's. Discussions of race often boil down to one side getting offended, feeling accused, and pulling out illogical arguments ("if a black person does x it's not racist but if a white person does x it is racist waah"). Rush is not the inventor of the White Persecution Complex, he's merely it's loudest champion.

I'm black and would love to have someone who knows something about football own my team (fuckin Lions). I'd have no problem with Rush, nor would any player in the league turn down money to take a political stance. Everyone knows that's bullshit in today's sports climate

That's fucking BULLSHIT!!! If you are a good player in the NFL you wouldn't go to the Rams for an extra $5 million. Why? They suck ass. And if Rush co-owned the Lions many players would past up that money to play for another team if they were a free agent.

Players do it ALL THE TIME for other issues like location (weather reasons), coaching staff, organization (Al Davis hello?), etc.

I hate this lie that every single football player would play for Rush's NFL team because they are too weak and pussy to turn down a few dollars. Hell Drew Brees (top 3 QB in the league) gave up $250,000 just to get a better Defense coordiantor.

 

[140.85]

Right. I'm not sure it matters if he is actually racist.

It's paramount because that is the charge being leveled.

 

[zoku88]

Umm no.

The thread is almost entirely left-leaning, dude.

ANYBODY (not just me) who dares play devil's advocate -- a valid form of argument -- let alone voices opposition, is in the extreme minority, as indicated by the chorus of rebuttals.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the rebuttals -- and I know you think those rebuttals are almost always correct because they're on your side -- but the point is there are so many of them when any opposing argument is posited that ipso facto the thread is a Left-diddly-eftorium.

That's mainly just you and the very few extreme libertarians.

Everyone else does just fine.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I suppose Rush might not be racist, but when he uses metaphors with racist overtones as often as he does-- and comparing the NFL to black gangs certainly counts-- what difference does it make? I'm not talking about when he believes secretly deep down in his heart, but how he acts. He acts like a racist. Perhaps it's an act, but if the effect is the same, what's the difference?

I think virtually everybody is at least a little racist. *cue Avenue Q song here* But there's being responisble about it and acting accordingly, and then there's acting in a way to actually incite more racism in others. Guess which Rush does?

 

[BowieZ]

That's mainly just you and the very few extreme libertarians.

Everyone else does just fine.

I'm not an extreme libertarian, dude, I'm a skeptic of anyone with great and secretive powers. If Ron Paul were President, I'd be playing Devil's Advocate for the Republocrats. Vote him in and I'll prove it.

 

[duk]

I get a headache watching Fox News.

Sales of advil have gone up.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Right. I'm not sure it matters if he is actually racist; what he says and does makes situations worse by using race to obscure the true issues. Saying that he represents the average white person's view, though, is inaccurate. The better statement would be, "he represents the average poor white person from rural areas."

And by "represents" we mean in voice only, not like these poor white racists are actually half-billionaires that make their livings based on making white people angry, rather than the hard working if undereducated people they are.

To the football comment: Al Davis, Dan Snyder, and Jerry Jones all know a little bit about football.

Never said he represents the average white person's views. And I'd argue those views extend beyond average poor whites but that's a discussion for another day.

edit: give me Rush over those three any day of the week.

That's fucking BULLSHIT!!! If you are a good player in the NFL you wouldn't go to the Rams for an extra $5 million. Why? They suck ass. And if Rush co-owned the Lions many players would past up that money to play for another team if they were a free agent.

NFL players are more concerned about money than any other team sports players in the US. It's the most physically demanding sport and puts players in the most danger, to the point where every play could result in huge injuries. There's a reason why guaranteed money is so coveted in the league.

Now, show me some examples of modern players taking political stands and turning down money. There are no Mohamed Alis or Jim Browns to be found today. I'm sure they'd complain but as long as the money was there, they'd be content.

 

[ChoklitReign]

I do think some defense is neccessary. They're peddling anti-American propaganda as "news." I would think they'd want to defend that.

How is Fox anti-American? Is opposing Obama at all supposed to be anti-American according to you?

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Then tell fundamentalist rednecks to stop insisting they are the only true conservatives and step off the podium for adults to have their turn. All of us will be better off.

I'm glad you know what's best for the leadership of the conservatives in America, maybe you should get a job in DC and get paid to dispense this wisdom.

Really though, I'd be interested to hear who you think should be leading conservatives.

 

[PantherLotus]

It's paramount because that is the charge being leveled.

No, I said ACTUALLY racist. It doesn't matter, because he ACTS like a racist. He says racist things, which are documented, and he says "racially insensitive" things, which is a euphemism for "accidentally racist" things. He enflames numerous politics with thinly-veiled racist overtones, and you're saying that he may not actually be racist because we don't know his heart.

Ok, fine, I say. It doesn't matter if he's ACTUALLY racist. Everything he does, says, and is known for says otherwise.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

It's worth noting the number of people willing to defend FOXNEWS here in this thread but never both setting foot in the PoliGAF thread to assert their opinions on policy and politic. Sad, really.

Why is that sad? Poligaf is an 'progressive' echo-chamber. Anyone who opposes would just be wasting there time. That's what's sad.

How is Fox anti-American? Is opposing Obama at all supposed to be anti-American according to you?

Anyone else remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism. It wasn't that long ago.

 

[rpmurphy]

What a silly fight to pick for the White House. There's nothing in it for them except undermining their own establishment. Politics and media are both businesses with muddied hands.

 

[PantherLotus]

How is Fox anti-American? Is opposing Obama at all supposed to be anti-American according to you?

I'll admit the connection is tenuous, but an organization that parades itself around as a news organization when in truth it spreads little more than Republican talking points, fear-mongering, and racist diatribe, I'd say that's unAmerican. Of course, one could argue that its PRECISELY American, but I argue that it makes our country weaker by making the weak more weak and the uninformed even less informed.

Their stance on Obama is just the canary in the coal mine. After years of being a mouthpiece for the White House (Iraq War, supporting Torture, etc) they're suddenly worried about being a mouthpiece for the White House.

 

[PantherLotus]

Why is that sad? Poligaf is an 'progressive' echo-chamber. Anyone who opposes would just be wasting there time. That's what's sad.



Anyone else remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism. It wasn't that long ago.

I think you're attempting to say that dissent and mccarthyism are the same thing. I think that's a mistake.

 

[140.85]

Again, you guys are toying around with the notion that perception of someone as a racist is sufficient grounds to brand them as such - regardless of intent, facts or evidence.

Can't you see that policy or laws or culture based on such a notion is incompatible with a free society?

 

[PantherLotus]

What a silly fight to pick for the White House. There's nothing in it for them except undermining their own establishment. Politics and media are both businesses with muddied hands.

There may be a larger point. It could just be a distraction. It's not that different than the former White House's PR wing, FOX, from continuing to call the New York Times and every other news outlet as "RADICAL LIBERAL OUTLETS OF UNAMERICAN PROPAGANDA."

 

[Kinitari]

Limbaugh suggests Obama would not have acted on Somali pirates if he'd known they were "actually young, black Muslim teenagers." On April 14, Limbaugh suggested the "correct" way to look at a situation in which Obama sent the military to retrieve American hostages from Somali pirates was that "if only President Obama had known that the three Somali community organizers were actually young, black Muslim teenagers, I'm sure he wouldn't have given the order to shoot."

Wat? He didn't actually say that... did he?

 

[PhoenixDark]

On race, Rush is sort of like that Jesse Helms ad - but he's certainly not Jesse Helms. That's probably the best description for him imo. He race baits and champions a White Persecution Complex but ultimately I don't see him as a racist, denying black people rights or (as a radio personality) suggesting they shouldn't have rights, be treated equally, making purely racist comments, etc.

 

[PantherLotus]

Again, you guys are toying around with the notion that perception of someone as a racist is sufficient grounds to brand them as such - regardless of intent.

Can't you see that policy or laws or culture based on such a notion is incompatible with a free society?

What are you saying? Perception of his racist actions isn't enough? Enough for what?

Not even sure what the second part of your post means. Why would Rush saying racist things and being called out for it be incompatible with a free society? Looks to me like he got to say those idiotic things and made millions of dollars off of it. What could be more free than that?