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[AquaWateria]

Honestly Hollywood is full of shit and it really sucks.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You know, screw this attitude. Hollywood is full of works about whiteness. Whiteness is not a topic that needs further exploration. Especially when the story of Asian Americans, who contrary to what some believe do not spring into being with an ancestral memory of Asian culture, has barely been scratched.

We have an abundance of works dealing with modern American-Asian cultural appropriation and navigating that issue?

PM me instead, I'm the true judge of MovieGAF

You're not the judge of anything Bronson. You're the screaming peanut gallery in the rafters.

 

[firehawk12]

I already said Matt Damon's character from The Great Wall should cross over. This is perfect.

 

[Rumblebones]

Get the fuck outta here, Disney. And fuck the writers of this too.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Fuck why is this not an option.

Because Keanu is half Asian.

 

[Inferno313]

Hey so a lot of GAFers don't know me as an insider, and I'm not claiming I am one at all, but I came across substantial proof that says that the lead isn't a white male at all. Willing to PM a mod to get it verified, but I'm 99% sure of my source.

PM me instead, I'm the true judge of MovieGAF

PM me just because I'm nosy.

 

[Kalentan]

IMO I thought all the Samurai were The Last Samurai... (plural is the same)

If anything, movie showed white people and their war tactics to be cowardly as fuck, and Tom's character is basically learning that

That is true I guess you can take it either way.

Also I find it funny that people act like Tom Cruise saved them in the movie. In the end his knowlege of their tactics meant jack shit as the Japanese soldiers began to learn very quickly and destroyed Katsumoto forces.

 

[Septimus Prime]

An Asian role is going to an Asian actress. I'm supposed to be crying because the role is being properly cast with a perfectly diverse option giving an opportunity to an actress to reach outside her country?

Give me a break. As an Asian-American, it's embarrassing watching some of you tripping over yourselves in your own tribalism.

No one's crying. Let's be serious.

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that? The show would probably be exactly as good as it is, but would you not question why he'd do that instead of using local actors like he actually did?

 

[BronsonLee]

You're not the judge of anything Bronson. You're the screaming peanut gallery in the rafters.

I am Statler & Waldorf.

PM me just because I'm nosy.

NO

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that?

I get what you mean, but he did also put Elba in it so

 

[norm9]

Because Keanu is half Asian.

47 Ronin was half embarassing, half entertaining.

 

[firehawk12]

No one's crying. Let's be serious.

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that? The show would probably be exactly as good as it is, but would you not question why he'd do that instead of using local actors like he actually did?

To be fair, Idris Alba. lol
Oh and the guy who played McNulty.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I get what you mean, but he did also put Elba in it so

And Dominic West--both amazing actors.

But there were a lot of just guys off the street, with Omar being one of them.

 

[-griffy-]

I get what you mean, but he did also put Elba in it so

Elba is too

Spoiler

British

to play

Spoiler

street

tbf

 

[FStop7]

I actually never understood the hate for this movie

The same people who think Daniel Day Lewis was "the last of the Mohicans." People who haven't actually watched (or paid attention to) the film.

 

[Cuburt]

That would be stupid as hell considering they have a successful film not even 20 years old that this film would be remaking, a film that children who grew up watching this may just be getting old enough to bring children of their own to watch it.

Even with The Jungle Book they realized part of the appeal of doing a remake was to invoke the original animated film, possibly the most successful and memorable western adaptation of the story.

It would be ludicrous for Mulan to not be the main character and to change the story that much.

 

[Cybit]

To be fair, she is only half Asian and she had to change her name because of fears of having the last name Wang in Hollywood.

And first Avatar, now Mulan. Why is everyone ripping off Pocahontas?

Sadly you are right on the name change thing, but considering who the showrunners are, this was a show that was not going to have that problem (Sup Jed and Maurissa)

Though apparently she was also a chinese pop singer under Chloe Wang; which is sort of hysterical.

Why can't you make an Asian American Danny Rand?

Asian Americans don't have magical connections to their ancestral homelands, and many born in the states (myself included) are thoroughly Americanized. Hell, an Asian American Rand could have the same fish out of water aspect of being caught in an unfamiliar eastern setting, with the added bonus of a layer of shame from being detached from the culture of one's ancestors.

And as for Colleen Wing, who is still pretty awesome (and actually looks Asian, whereas her comics counterpart is apparently half Japanese and half Chinese but looks white), the problem lies where the only Asian characters are the supporting hot female love interest, the supporting mentor, and the villainous and sinister Kung Fu villain. Which is exactly what is happening in Iron Fist (even though I'm still excited for it due to Colleen's kickassery).

I think they could have gone either route personally - but based on some of the comments around casting - I suspect that they are at least looking seriously at spinning off an Asian Iron Fist show from the main show ala Punisher. IIRC, Lewis Tan said at NYCC that they auditioned him for the main role as well and nearly chose him - so Marvel was probably at least not completely beholden to Danny Rand being white.

 

[norm9]

Have Chris Tucker be the European trader and Jackie Chan as Mulan.

 

[ebullientprism]

No one's crying. Let's be serious.

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that? The show would probably be exactly as good as it is, but would you not question why he'd do that instead of using local actors like he actually did?

LOL.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

47 Ronin was half embarassing, half entertaining.

Nah, it sucked.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

We have an abundance of works dealing with modern American-Asian cultural appropriation and navigating that issue?

You can do that without having the whitest person possible as the lead.

 

[Capitan]

Have Chris Tucker be the European trader and Jackie Chan as Mulan.

this would actually be awesome

 

[orthodoxy1095]

No one's crying. Let's be serious.

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that? The show would probably be exactly as good as it is, but would you not question why he'd do that instead of using local actors like he actually did?

Surely we see the commonality between a show set in Baltimore using primarily American actors and a movie set in China, about a traditional Chinese legend using a Chinese actress.

I am Statler & Waldorf.

This is more accurate than I ever could have dreamt.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Elba is too

Spoiler

British

to play

Spoiler

street

tbf

He might actually think so himself. I remember reading interviews with him, where he said he never watched The Wire. And even though String was such a great role, all of his other roles--Heimdall, Luther, the musk ox police chief in Zootopia, and that guy in Star Trek--none of them are street.

Surely we see the commonality between a show set in Baltimore using primarily American actors and a movie set in China, about a traditional Chinese legend using a Chinese actress.

Sure. I'm just saying that if it's going to be an American movie, in English, like all of Disney's other stuff, why not at least look at the possibility?

 

[Anth0ny]

holy shit lol



well we know what to do, complain on twitter until they change their mind. it tends to work these days, thankfully.

 

[-griffy-]

He might actually think so himself. I remember reading interviews with him, where he said he never watched The Wire. And even though String was such a great role, all of his other roles--Heimdall, Luther, the musk ox police chief in Zootopia, and that guy in Star Trek--none of them are street.

To be clear, I was just being sarcastic and poking fun at that James Bond quote about Elba.

 

[BronsonLee]

This is more accurate than I ever could have dreamt.

DOHHHHHHHH HOOO

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Yup because the Japanese are inferior, have to let the white man come and utilize his superior knowledge to beat down the enemy who is also using superior white man technology.

Because we all know white people are better.

Nobody said the Japanese were inferior, the Samurai weapons and tactics at that time absolutely were though.
the point of the movie is Tom Cruise learns that more or less the Samurai culture is worth fighting for in the only way he knows how, as well as seeing the error of his(and the white guys ways)

Also firearms are Chinese technology

Hell its been a while but I don't remember the bad Japanese even being that bad in it, the white villain was though.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

That.... does not sound anything like Mulan.

 

[lightskintwin]

The same people who think Daniel Day Lewis was "the last of the Mohicans." People who haven't actually watched (or paid attention to) the film.

Or could it be, that the prevalence of telling culturally ethnic stories primarily through white male protagonists starts to all look the same regardless of any nuances?

No one's crying. Let's be serious.

If David Simon had cast The Wire with a bunch of actors from England or Africa, how would people feel about that? The show would probably be exactly as good as it is, but would you not question why he'd do that instead of using local actors like he actually did?

This was a bad example. British and American actors are often interchangeable in Western media. Plus Black Americans only care if somebody is Black that's supposed to be Black regardless of where they come from.

I think the bigger issue is Asian Americans are caught in this limbo where they're American but the industry doesn't support their representation in media especially in lead roles, and that there's a healthy foreign Asian industry where America can use their talent if they do decide to cast them.

 

[Freshmaker]

Who would think this is a good idea?

Why they even call her Mulan at that point?

Didn't Tom Cruise already make this movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T50_qHEOahQ

 

[norm9]

Or could it be, that the prevalence of telling culturally ethnic stories primarily through white male protagonists starts to all look the same regardless of any nuances?

Apocalypto should have been a watershed moment in storytelling as it proved it wasn't necessary to have to tell stories from a white viewpoint of the other, but it didn't for some reason.

 

[lightskintwin]

Surely we see the commonality between a show set in Baltimore using primarily American actors and a movie set in China, about a traditional Chinese legend using a Chinese actress.

Yeah, i get the Asian American argument, but there's no way you're going to have me believe that using a native Chinese actress set in China about a traditional Chinese legend is a bad thing.

 

[smurfx]

fuck this no way will i support this movie. i'm not going to enable hollywood to keep whitewashing movies.

 

[Mortemis]

I can't see this really happening, Disney will probably gut the original script so much that the only thing that's the same is that there's a character named Mulan. Not only because of the issue we see, but also since this sounds like a horrible movie.

Wouldn't watch a bit of it if they went with it.

 

[Ventara]

Are you freaking kidding me?! Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

 

[Zoe]

Sure. I'm just saying that if it's going to be an American movie, in English, like all of Disney's other stuff, why not at least look at the possibility?

You know, I don't care what nationality the actress ends up being, but if they go for a Chinese actress with a Chinese accent, they better make all of the characters have similar accents. Let's not mix and match.

 

[firehawk12]

You know, I don't care what nationality the actress ends up being, but if they go for a Chinese actress with a Chinese accent, they better make all of the characters have similar accents. Let's not mix and match.

I'm going to assume everyone will have an American or British accent. lol

 

[ZackieChan]

fuck this no way will i support this movie. i'm not going to enable hollywood to keep whitewashing movies.

Lucky for you this is just a spec script, not the shooting or final script, and they haven't cast white people for the lead role yet.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

I'm..... Not surprised that this SPEC script has a white male savior as a lead. I hope Disney doesn't adapt it or merge it with their new script (chances are decent that they did or considered it).

I have nothing else to say because almost everybody has said it better than I was going to.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I think OP is a bit misleading. No casting or finalized script has been done. This is literally Disney shopping around for Mulan scripts. It doesn't mean this will be the final product. More will be known within a few months when pre-production is almost done.

 

[Trike]

I know this was brought up, but...

I am deeply disturbed that a remake of the beloved Disney classic rejects the cultural consciousness of its predecessor by featuring a white male lead, once again perpetuating the myth that cultural stories are not worth telling without a western lens or star. Instead of seizing the opportunity to highlight a tenacious, complex female warrior, this remake diminishes her agency. But what I find equally troubling is the fact that Disney plans to cast a 16-17 year old established Chinese actress as Mulan, and will not be casting an Asian American.

Let's set aside the clear pedophilic implications that arise when you cast a teenage girl alongside a 30-something romantic interest. That one is self-explanatory. I want to address the missed opportunity of tapping into the Asian-American actor populace who grew up watching the animated Mulan, eyes glittering to see themselves finally featured on-screen. The fact that Mulan resonated so strongly with American audiences with its all-Asian character lineup and Asian American voice actors is a testament to what this live-action film could accomplish if it would simply trust the successful 1998 form. Even though this spec script references the original "Ballad of Mulan," its cultural landscape becomes a mere backdrop to its tired Blockbuster-style romantic and fantastical storyline -- as such, Mulan's resonance as an Asian-American retelling is lost.

Let's be real. Casting a Chinese actress as Mulan is a ploy to appeal to a Chinese market, which honestly will not be as enthusiastic as our American audience to see our retelling of a tale they know best. The animated film made $120 million in the U.S. and Canada combined, and completely flopped in Chinese markets because her character was so different from what the Chinese recognized. If this live-action film tries to cater to both the Chinese and American markets without understanding the cultural implications of its creative choices, this film will fall short of both. If the film splits focus from Mulan to a white male lead and is more interested in targeting a Chinese market with its casting, it will estrange its immensely devoted American audience.

This is insane. The reason brought up is not that Asian-Americans don't get enough roles. It's that Mulan was not popular in China and all Asian-Americans loved Mulan.

 

[lightskintwin]

Sure. I'm just saying that if it's going to be an American movie, in English, like all of Disney's other stuff, why not at least look at the possibility?

i mean this is true too. Don Cheadle was the lead to Hotel Rwanda. Forest Whitaker played Ugandan Idi Amin in the Last King of Scotland. Denzel Washington played South African Steve Biko in Cry Freedom. So I get the argument in favor of casting an Asian American. It just sucks for them that this film is being made with the huge Chinese box office market in mind and appealing to their sensibilities first.

You know, I don't care what nationality the actress ends up being, but if they go for a Chinese actress with a Chinese accent, they better make all of the characters have similar accents. Let's not mix and match.

Agreed. I hate that as well.

 

[Mahonay]

Ghost in the Shell...and now this.

Hollywood you are the worst.

EDIT: At least in this case it sounds like they aren't going to actually cast a white dude now.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Hey so a lot of GAFers don't know me as an insider, and I'm not claiming I am one at all, but I came across substantial proof that says that the lead isn't a white male at all. Willing to PM a mod to get it verified, but I'm 99% sure of my source.

The plot thickens

 

[pelicansurf]

White savior trope? White savior trope.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

There's no way they'd be dumb enough to go with that....

Spoiler

I think

 

[lightskintwin]

I think OP is a bit misleading. No casting or finalized script has been done. This is literally Disney shopping around for Mulan scripts. It doesn't mean this will be the final product. More will be known within a few months when pre-production is almost done.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-developing-live-action-mulan-784892

March 30th 2015

Disney bought a script by writing team Elizabeth Martin and Lauren Hynek that centers on the Chinese legend of Hua Mulan, the female warrior who was the main character in Disney's 1998 animated film.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disneys-live-action-mulan-gets-934976

October 4th 2016

The studio also announced that Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver (Jurassic World) had been brought aboard to rewrite a spec script for Mulan that Disney bought in 2015. Jaffa and Silver also are working on the Avatar sequel.

The Disney team saw the spec, by Lauren Hynek and Elizabeth Martin, as a jumping-off point for a more nuanced and elaborate adaptation, combining the legendary Chinese ballad and the 1998 animated film.

So we know the spec script is going to be used as a jumping off point and is being rewritten by two new writers. An Asian American read the spec script and leaked it to Angry Asian Man's blog. We have no idea what changes they're going to make or rewrite, only that the spec script that's being used had a White male lead. Should this Asian American have not been concerned and kept quiet, waited, and just assumed Disney would've did the right thing and completely write out that part?

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I could only see this working if the white character is a complete comedy role. He's a merchant, his caravan gets wiped out by the badguy, but Mulan and the Imperial army save his ass. By this point Mulan being female is an open secret to the soldiers, but white guy is oblivious and buys that Mulan is a guy. Mulan continues to be a badass through the entire film, with white guy playing the bumbling sidekick role until the big reveal at the end, which is a surprise to nobody except white guy, who's happy because he was falling for "him" since they met and it was causing him some anxiety about his sexuality.

 

[BronsonLee]

I could only see this working if the white character is a complete comedy role. He's a merchant, his caravan gets wiped out by the badguy, but Mulan and the Imperial army save his ass. By this point Mulan being female is an open secret to the soldiers, but white guy is oblivious and buys that Mulan is a guy. Mulan continues to be a badass through the entire film, with white guy playing the bumbling sidekick role until the big reveal at the end, which is a surprise to nobody except white guy, who's happy because he was falling for "him" since they met and it was causing him some anxiety about his sexuality.

Make the subtitle Mulan: Big Trouble In Little Persona 4 Golden

 

[pHand]

Oh, please. Outrage culture strikes yet again. This is just white people being offended on the behalf of Asians. Has anyone asked what actual Chinese people think? And even if they were offended, it's probably just a small vocal minority. We should do a poll of Chinese and Chinese-Americans, and if over 90% are offended, then they should get rid of the white lead. And even then, those people are just being overly sensitive. They complain when there aren't Asian characters in an overly white movie, so why can't we have white characters in Asian movies? This is just reverse racism. The real racists are the ones who don't want a white man saving Mulan. SJWs ruin everything.

Did I cover the usual responses?

In all seriousness, I doubt Disney will keep this aspect of the spec script, but it'll be interesting to see how much of the original animated movie they'll incorporate, since it bombed in China. I'm curious if Mulan's individualism would still be a problem with Chinese audiences, given that China is now one of the biggest markets for superhero movies and Zootopia set records there.

If it were up to me, they'd just rework the original and get rid of Mushu (I don't actually mind him, but he wouldn't work in live action). Also, bring back all of Jerry Goldsmith's amazing score. And if I can't get Ming-Na back, I'd happily settle for Constance Wu as Mulan.