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[Kalentan]

I actually never understood the hate for this movie

Cause people think it's a "white savior" movie when it's not. At all.

Like BronsonLee said, either they didn't see or they did and just completely did not understand it at all.

 

[Goldrush]

I'm pretty sure what's happening is that Disney "White Chicks" the movie. Not only is Mulan going in drag, she's also going white-faced. In the end, she ends up learning to love herself.

 

[Oozer3993]

I wonder if Disney bought the spec script to keep it away from rival studios. Their big movies from the Renaissance are all based on public domain IP (aside from The Lion King, which was original) so another studio could make a similar movie. There was a Tarzan movie this year, a Hercules movie a couple years ago, a Jungle Book film from Andy Serkis in 2018, and I believe there's a Little Mermaid film bouncing around somewhere too. Snatching up scripts to keep other studios from scrounging some profits off you seems like a decent business move. And considering that Disney has struck upon remaking the animated movies as closely as possible, I highly doubt they're going to change Mulan much. I'd be shocked if there's any major remnant of this white lead in the final film.

Final note: Remember the Russell Crowe Robin Hood movie from a couple years back? That started as a spec script. One that bears very little resemblance to the final film. These things can, and do, change. And greatly.

 

[Principate]

Also, this is where I am amused that people are ignoring the fact that Marvel's first superhero TV show (and I believe still most watched due to network televsion) has an asian-american superhero as the lead character.

Isn't that coulson or was for the majority of it (haven't caught up).

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not really familiar with DD S2.

https://youtu.be/YWozg46ZWAs?t=816

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Danny Rand wouldn't work as asian though. It's a rare case of white superhero character that wouldn't survive changing his race. You could make asian Iron Fist, just not asian Danny.
But I didn't realise Collen isn't played by full blown asian. Even though this seems a bit petty distinction.

Yes no one is saying they should make an Asian Rand. The Rand character was problematic to begin with and a product of its time.

Also it's not petty when it's a common thing for Hollywood to cast mixed Asians for more anglo features just as it was and still is sometimes an issue where very light skinned black people with artificially straightened hair are cast over darker skinned black people.

 

[TheXbox]

I wonder if Disney bought the spec script to keep it away from rival studios. Their big movies from the Renaissance are all based on public domain IP (aside from The Lion King, which was original) so another studio could make a similar movie. There was a Tarzan movie this year, a Hercules movie a couple years ago, a Jungle Book film from Andy Serkis in 2018, and I believe there's a Little Mermaid film bouncing around somewhere too. Snatching up scripts to keep other studios from scrounging some profits off you seems like a decent business move. And considering that Disney has struck upon remaking the animated movies as closely as possible, I highly doubt they're going to change Mulan much. I'd be shocked if there's any major remnant of this white lead in the final film.

Sony is making a live action Mulan.

If anything, though, I feel like letting another studio work off this script would do you more favors than harm. Let Sony take the heat for white-washing and misogyny so Disney can be seen taking the high road. But I can understand the desire to borrow whatever elements are worth salvaging from this script.

 

[ZackieChan]

i'd have more respect for them if they made the bold move of casting an asian as the main character. the only way to diversify shit like this is to get an asian, as the lead, one day have it be a blockbuster which will then open up opportunities for many more.

it's never gonna happen if they always fuckin play it "safe"

They...haven't cast anyone yet. What are you talking about?

 

[ttimebomb]

This whole thing is super fake. No way they put a white male as the lead. The outraged would sink the movie's box office.

 

[numble]

Also, this is where I am amused that people are ignoring the fact that Marvel's first superhero TV show (and I believe still most watched due to network televsion) has an asian-american superhero as the lead character.

What does that fact have to do with anything? People aren't ignoring the fact that the Disney Mulan animated movie did not have white people, which is more appropriate.

 

[lightskintwin]

Cause people think it's a "white savior" movie when it's not. At all.

Like BronsonLee said, either they didn't see or they did and just completely did not understand it at all.

LOL It's a Japanese Samurai film framed around a White male protagonist.

As David Poland put it:

But what does drive me to distraction is quality work that makes an audience feel like it is having one experience while the subtext of the film is saying something else. That is my problem with The Last Samurai. It’s beautifully shot. It’s well acted. It moves apace. There are some failed efforts, like the completely botched Greek chorus character played by the great Timothy Spall, who is a pale reflection of the same character played by Saul Rubinek in Unforgiven. But that is the flea on the ass of this elephant.

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

 

[Cybit]

Isn't that coulson or was for the majority of it (haven't caught up).

No; main character of the show has always been Quake (aka Skye aka Daisy Johnson) - played by Chloe Bennett (aka Chloe Wang). Coulson is one of the main characters (since it is an ensemble show), but Daisy is who the show has always been centered around.

 

[AquaWateria]

No Mulan as the protagonist....

No asian actor playing as Shang...

Its been awhile since I was this pissed.

 

[Hot Coldman]

hahahahahahahahahahaha suck a bag of red-hot dildos, Disney

jesus christ

 

[Principate]

No; main character of the show has always been Quake (aka Skye aka Daisy Johnson) - played by Chloe Bennett (aka Chloe Wang). Coulson is one of the main characters (since it is an ensemble show), but Daisy is who the show has always been centered around.

Coulson's the defacto leader and the the audience is often made to relate to the most. He's also the one that's always marketed. He's cerainly on the end of who the show actually pushed, also being the key link to the avengers movie

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

LOL It's a Japanese Samurai film framed around a White male protagonist.

As David Poland put it:

LOL that still honestly doesn't get the movie.
The only reason the white guy is of use in that movie is because he knows modern strategy,tactics and weapons which the Samurai's enemies are employing and are being instructed by other white guys.
Physically he doesn't matter Samurai were going to lose either way and they were decimated just the same even with his help.

 

[BronsonLee]

Yeah well all that GAF talked about when AoS started was where Skye pooped so there is that

Spoiler

ShieldGAF, why

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Uh, I read the article, and while I agree with the thesis that a white male lead seems wholly unnecessary, what the hell is this garbage:

But what I find equally troubling is the fact that Disney plans to cast a 16-17 year old established Chinese actress as Mulan, and will not be casting an Asian American.

Let's set aside the clear pedophilic implications that arise when you cast a teenage girl alongside a 30-something romantic interest. That one is self-explanatory. I want to address the missed opportunity of tapping into the Asian-American actor populace who grew up watching the animated Mulan, eyes glittering to see themselves finally featured on-screen. The fact that Mulan resonated so strongly with American audiences with its all-Asian character lineup and Asian American voice actors is a testament to what this live-action film could accomplish if it would simply trust the successful 1998 form. Even though this spec script references the original "Ballad of Mulan," its cultural landscape becomes a mere backdrop to its tired Blockbuster-style romantic and fantastical storyline -- as such, Mulan's resonance as an Asian-American retelling is lost.

This frustrates me just as much honestly. Why are you throwing Chinese actors and actresses under the bus?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

LOL that still honestly doesn't get the movie.
The only reason the white guy is of use in that movie is because he knows modern strategy,tactics and weapons which the Samurai's enemies are employing and being instructed by other white guys.

I think the issue is that he is not only an expert on the modern western tactics but also becomes one of the best if not the best samurai. He's not just a tactician guy.

Again, the savior white man comes off as knowing it all and can do it all. Meanwhile there's no way the Japanese could know something of modern western tactics?

 

[Nesotenso]

I thought they were just adapting the animated movie.

 

[JPLMD]

LOL that still honestly doesn't get the movie.
The only reason the white guy is of use in that movie is because he knows modern strategy,tactics and weapons which the Samurai's enemies are employing and being instructed by other white guys.

Yup because the Japanese are inferior, have to let the white man come and utilize his superior knowledge to beat down the enemy who is also using superior white man technology.

Because we all know white people are better.

 

[lightskintwin]

LOL that still honestly doesn't get the movie.
The only reason the white guy is of use in that movie is because he knows modern strategy,tactics and weapons which the Samurai's enemies are employing and being instructed by other white guys.

But why is the story even about him? That's the issue and it's prevalence in telling culturally ethnic stories.

Once again as David Poland put it:

That split, between good intentions and reality, is what makes Zwick’s work dangerous. He gets the significance of the situation, but the question he is compelled to ask as a result is “How is this about me?”

Well, it’s not always about you, Ed. And you are infecting a large group of people whose intentions are as well held as your own with this disease of self-involvement. Nathan Algren is the character with whom the audience identifies and his journey of rebirth and re-found passion is lovely. But not to put too fine a point on it… so what? An entire culture has been run over, part of it destroyed and the person I am concerned about is the one white guy in the room who has a dazzling smile?

 

[Cybit]

Coulson's the defacto leader and the the audience is often made to relate to the most. He's also the one that's always marketed. He's cerainly on the end of who the show actually pushed, also being the key link to the avengers movie

Eh - that changes pretty heavily throughout the show's evolution. They even explicitly cut Coulson out from the Avengers via plot device. Basically, the show changes completely post Winter Soldier. (And is changing heavily again post Civil War)

What does that fact have to do with anything? People aren't ignoring the fact that the Disney Mulan animated movie did not have white people, which is more appropriate.

It was a side digression about people complaining about Iron Fist being Disney's "chance" at an asian-american superhero, when we do have one.

W/R/T the Mulan thing - it's an initial unsolicited spec script over a year old that Disney has publicly stated is being rewritten. I'll wait for at least the trailer (or casting) before I start worrying about it.

 

[Izuna]

I think the issue is that he is not only an expert on the modern western tactics but also becomes one of the best if not the best samurai. He's not just a tactician guy.

Again, the savior white man comes off as knowing it all and can do it all. Meanwhile there's no way the Japanese could know something of modern western tactics?

he saves no one mate

 

[NYCmetsfan]

LOL It's a Japanese Samurai film framed around a White male protagonist.

As David Poland put it:

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic.

This seems to be saying stories of white people changing anything about other cultures is wrong and can't be redeemed.

I mean yes its literally imperialistic story because they only reason they're there is imperialism (historically) but it also seems to wall off stories about cultural exchange if the white people are heroes.

 

[ebullientprism]

I am with them when they say that changing what the film is about to shove a white lead in there and then make it about him is absolute bullshit.

But I dont see the problem in casting a Chinese actor instead of an Asian American for the role of Mulan.

 

[Platy]

What if MULAN .... disguise herself as a white male ?

 

[Kin5290]

Danny Rand wouldn't work as asian though. It's a rare case of white superhero character that wouldn't survive changing his race. You could make asian Iron Fist, just not asian Danny.
But I didn't realise Collen isn't played by full blown asian. Even though this seems a bit petty distinction.

Why can't you make an Asian American Danny Rand?

Asian Americans don't have magical connections to their ancestral homelands, and many born in the states (myself included) are thoroughly Americanized. Hell, an Asian American Rand could have the same fish out of water aspect of being caught in an unfamiliar eastern setting, with the added bonus of a layer of shame from being detached from the culture of one's ancestors.

And as for Colleen Wing, who is still pretty awesome (and actually looks Asian, whereas her comics counterpart is apparently half Japanese and half Chinese but looks white), the problem lies where the only Asian characters are the supporting hot female love interest, the supporting mentor, and the villainous and sinister Kung Fu villain. Which is exactly what is happening in Iron Fist (even though I'm still excited for it due to Colleen's kickassery).

 

[AkumaNiko]

hahahahahahahahahahaha suck a bag of red-hot dildos, Disney

jesus christ

Did you bother to read anything else other than the first page?

 

[H.Cornerstone]

No; main character of the show has always been Quake (aka Skye aka Daisy Johnson) - played by Chloe Bennett (aka Chloe Wang). Coulson is one of the main characters (since it is an ensemble show), but Daisy is who the show has always been centered around.

To be fair, she is only half Asian and she had to change her name because of fears of having the last name Wang in Hollywood.

And first Avatar, now Mulan. Why is everyone ripping off Pocahontas?

 

[Septimus Prime]

This frustrates me just as much honestly. Why are you throwing Chinese actors and actresses under the bus?

Since it's been brought up a bunch of times, it's because Asian-Americans are almost always ignored in media and casting. This is going to be (presumably) an American production in English, but the entire--already severely underrepresented--demographic is going to get passed over for foreign options immediately? Stings a bit.

As an Asian American, growing up and almost never seeing someone like me on TV or in movies, it's a conspicuous absence.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Re: Danny.

Aside from possibly worrying about backlash from hardcore fans over changing his background, I'm guessing Marvel felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place there again. You make Danny an Asian-American and reap praise for finally casting an Asian-American lead. And you also possibly reap critique for the Asian-American lead fulfilling one of the most stereotypically "Asian" roles. I can see why they didn't do it and I'm still interested to see if and how they deal with Danny's whiteness.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Danny Rand wouldn't work as asian though. It's a rare case of white superhero character that wouldn't survive changing his race. You could make asian Iron Fist, just not asian Danny.
But I didn't realise Collen isn't played by full blown asian. Even though this seems a bit petty distinction.

Are you sure about that?

I think Hispanic Danny Rand would change nothing. Or Arab American Danny Rand. All outsiders in Kun Lun, right?

Instead of another kungfu white guy beating up Asians for 13 episodes

 

[Kin5290]

Uh, I read the article, and while I agree with the thesis that a white male lead seems wholly unnecessary, what the hell is this garbage:


This frustrates me just as much honestly. Why are you throwing Chinese actors and actresses under the bus?

Chinese actors have an entire industry where they can find roles. There are few enough roles for Asian characters in Hollywood, and of the ones that exist a lot of times Asian (generally Chinese) stars are tapped for them. This leaves Asian Americans with slim pickings, and is understandably very frustrating.

Re: Danny.

Aside from possibly worrying about backlash from hardcore fans over changing his background, I'm guessing Marvel felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place there again. You make Danny an Asian-American and reap praise for finally casting an Asian-American lead. And you also possibly reap critique for the Asian-American lead fulfilling one of the most stereotypically "Asian" roles. I can see why they didn't do it and I'm still interested to see if and how they deal with Danny's whiteness.

You know, screw this attitude. Hollywood is full of works about whiteness. Whiteness is not a topic that needs further exploration. Especially when the story of Asian Americans, who contrary to what some believe do not spring into being with an ancestral memory of Asian culture, has barely been scratched.

 

[lightskintwin]

Re: Danny.

Aside from possibly worrying about backlash from hardcore fans over changing his background, I'm guessing Marvel felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place there again. You make Danny an Asian-American and reap praise for finally casting an Asian-American lead. And you also possibly reap critique for the Asian-American lead fulfilling one of the most stereotypically "Asian" roles. I can see why they didn't do it and I'm still interested to see if and how they deal with Danny's whiteness.

Why does this lame argument keep getting repeated ad nauseum? Do you not understand that if you're going to continue to typecast Asians, then at the very least typecast them as the lead, hero, and romantic interest in these stories instead of the supporting characters and villains. Quit making this false equivalence that they were "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't".

 

[Kalentan]

he saves no one mate

Yup. Also he isn't even: "The Last Samurai" which refers to Watanabe's character.

Plus I don't even recall them ever saying or even showing that he is a better Samurai then the Samurai. Only that he does have a slight advantage to knowing the techniques of the soldiers because he literally was training them.

Did he learn a bit fast? Yeah, but it's also a movie that has to work within a relatively small time frame.

Yup because the Japanese are inferior, have to let the white man come and utilize his superior knowledge to beat down the enemy who is also using superior white man technology.

Because we all know white people are better.

What? How does that say at all that Japanese are inferior. You do realize that in real life history, Japan did pay foreigners during this time to train Japanese soldiers to become just as expert as they were? Which is kind of the fucking point. In the end it didn't even matter that Tom Cruises character had this knowledge, the Japanese soldiers learned well and completely destroyed the rebellion.

 

[Izuna]

Mulan movie doesn't need any white characters

 

[The Artisan]

They...haven't cast anyone yet. What are you talking about?

that was in response to the other guy saying hollywood hates asians.

 

[Htown]

that's a stupid spec script

really, Hollywood? really?

 

[Affeinvasion]

I'm pretty disappointed that Donny Osmond wasn't a poll choice.

 

[EightBitNate]

Hey so a lot of GAFers don't know me as an insider, and I'm not claiming I am one at all, but I came across substantial proof that says that the lead isn't a white male at all. Willing to PM a mod to get it verified, but I'm 99% sure of my source.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

They go through with that, Disney is fucked. How could they be so dumb?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Chinese actors have an entire industry where they can find roles. There are few enough roles for Asian characters in Hollywood, and of the ones that exist a lot of times Asian (generally Chinese) stars are tapped for them. This leaves Asian Americans with slim pickings, and is understandably very frustrating.

This to me is a really gross attitude.

"They have enough roles in their country, they should just stick to their kind of people's movies and out of ours."

Since it's been brought up a bunch of times, it's because Asian-Americans are almost always ignored in media and casting. This is going to be (presumably) an American production in English, but the entire--already severely underrepresented--demographic is going to get passed over for foreign options immediately? Stings a bit.

As an Asian American, growing up and almost never seeing someone like me on TV or in movies, it's a conspicuous absence.

An Asian role is going to an Asian actress. I'm supposed to be crying because the role is being properly cast with a perfectly diverse option giving an opportunity to an actress to reach outside her country?

Give me a break. As an Asian-American, it's embarrassing watching some of you tripping over yourselves in your own tribalism.

 

[Izuna]

Yup. Also he isn't even: "The Last Samurai" which refers to Watanabe's character.

Plus I don't even recall them ever saying or even showing that he is a better Samurai then the Samurai. Only that he does have a slight advantage to knowing the techniques of the soldiers because he literally was training them.

Did he learn a bit fast? Yeah, but it's also a movie that has to work within a relatively small time frame.

IMO I thought all the Samurai were The Last Samurai... (plural is the same)

If anything, movie showed white people and their war tactics to be cowardly as fuck, and Tom's character is basically learning that

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Fuuuuck that.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

That poll is invalid, Liam Hemsworth isn't on it.

 

[Regiruler]

Keanu Reeves

Fuck why is this not an option.

 

[Walter White Walker]

My answer is the part for any actor, male or female, in all cases should go to Nicolas Cage.

I hope this source is wrong because otherwise it sounds like they're really screwing up Mulan.

 

[BronsonLee]

Hey so a lot of GAFers don't know me as an insider, and I'm not claiming I am one at all, but I came across substantial proof that says that the lead isn't a white male at all. Willing to PM a mod to get it verified, but I'm 99% sure of my source.

PM me instead, I'm the true judge of MovieGAF

 

[Casimir]

I would really love to see a costume test of Nick Cage dressed in Chinese armor, maybe with black Nick Cage hair.

.

.