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White male lead in the spec script Disney bought for the live action remake of Mulan

Who should play the lead character and true hero in Mulan's live action movie?

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I

Izuna

Banned
pHand said:
Oh, please. Outrage culture strikes yet again. This is just white people being offended on the behalf of Asians. Has anyone asked what actual Chinese people think? And even if they were offended, it's probably just a small vocal minority. We should do a poll of Chinese and Chinese-Americans, and if over 90% are offended, then they should get rid of the white lead. And even then, those people are just being overly sensitive. They complain when there aren't Asian characters in an overly white movie, so why can't we have white characters in Asian movies? This is just reverse racism. The real racists are the ones who don't want a white man saving Mulan. SJWs ruin everything.

Did I cover the usual responses?
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edit: i don't think this level of sarcasm is warranted when such sarcasm is the only example 4 pages in...
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
pHand said:
If it were up to me, they'd just rework the original and get rid of Mushu (I don't actually mind him, but he wouldn't work in live action). Also, bring back all of Jerry Goldsmith's amazing score. And if I can't get Ming-Na back, I'd happily settle for Constance Wu as Mulan.
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She's 34.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
Nicolas Cage would be really cool to have in the movie just in general.Not even in the lead or anything. I just want him there somewhere.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
BronsonLee said:
You'll never be able to tell

At this rate just pull a Titanic and have Ming-Na as a more elderly Mulan, then she drops a priceless jewel into the ocean after Leo decides to die rather than climb up onto a raft with her
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I always thought that Leo's death was a lesson in giving a girl space and focusing on one's self every now and then
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
It's a real shame if it's true. It's a somewhat recognisable name in the west and would be a great movie for the Asian audiences. Shame Disney would do this looking at how well they did black panther casting.
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
These 2 posts shouldn't be ignored in regards to Asian American casting:

Trike said:
I know this was brought up, but...
This is insane. The reason brought up is not that Asian-Americans don't get enough roles. It's that Mulan was not popular in China and all Asian-Americans loved Mulan.
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pHand said:
In all seriousness, I doubt Disney will keep this aspect of the spec script, but it'll be interesting to see how much of the original animated movie they'll incorporate, since it bombed in China. I'm curious if Mulan's individualism would still be a problem with Chinese audiences, given that China is now one of the biggest markets for superhero movies and Zootopia set records there.
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pHands link:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-05-03/features/9905030250_1_disney-s-mulan-sui-dynasty-chinese

The Americanized version of the famous folk tale is all too American for Chinese movie audiences.

At first glance, it seemed like a terrific formula: a Chinese folk tale filled with adventure, Disney's masterful animation and tens of millions of Chinese children raised on Western movies.

But instead of cashing in at the box office, Walt Disney's "Mulan" has bombed in her ancestral homeland.

"Mulan," which has grossed about $300 million worldwide, is the legendary story of a brave young Chinese woman who joins the army during the Sui Dynasty (589-618 A.D.) in place of her sick, elderly father.

But when Disney's version closed last month in Mulan's home province of Hunan, it had made barely $30,000 -- about half the take of the Hollywood comedy "Rush Hour," featuring Hong Kong action star Jackie Chan. The movie opened in Beijing in April, but at a recent 7 p.m. show at the capital's Dahua Theater, all but about 30 of the more than 400 seats sat empty.
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How is it that a national heroine who helped defeat foreign invaders has had such a hard time winning over her own countrymen? The answer lies in a mix of culture clash, modern technology and old-fashioned protectionism.

Trying to shelter its domestic film industry from foreign competition, the Chinese government first released the animated adventure in late February, just after children had returned to school following Chinese New Year, the biggest holiday of the year. Because of China's lax enforcement of intellectual property rights, many kids had already seen the film on pirated video compact discs anyway.

But the most intriguing reason for the movie's poor reception is that some people here just don't think Disney's Mulan is very Chinese.

Filmgoers occasionally refer to the cinematic heroine as "Yang Mulan," or "Foreign Mulan" in Chinese -- while complaining that she looks either Korean or Western. Others say her character does not exhibit the same depth of filial piety as her literary predecessor.

"She's too individualistic," says a 45-year-old theater ticket-taker who gives only her surname of Liu. "Americans don't know enough about Chinese culture."

Hollywood movies are enormously popular among young Chinese. When trying to find common ground for conversation, Chinese and foreigners often resort to the language of film.

China, however, allows only about 10 foreign movies in each year, so most viewers here rely on pirated video versions that have been copied or shot in theaters outside the country with hand-held video cameras.

The results are often hilarious: Audience members cough audibly or stand up and block the screen. One pirated version of "Mulan" has its own built-in laugh-track of giggling children in what appears to be an American theater.

For film companies, though, the rampant piracy is maddening.

One day recently, Jack Valenti, chairman of the Motion Picture Association, stood along one of Beijing's busiest boulevards and haggled with vendors over pirated copies of the Adam Sandler hit "The Waterboy" and the "Jurassic Park" sequel "The Lost World."

"This makes me want to throw up," said Valenti, who was in town to lobby Chinese leaders for more market access and picked up the video compact discs for about $2.40 each to show his colleagues back home.

Despite their fondness for Hollywood films, many Chinese are wary of and a bit nationalistic toward foreigners' attempts to portray or define their country. Beneath the increasingly sophisticated veneer of cell phones and office towers in cities such as Shanghai and Beijing, China remains a fairly traditional society.

And this is where Disney's "Mulan" may have run into trouble. Some Beijingers say they found her too self-aggrandizing -- a no-no under China's Confucian culture, which emphasizes values of modesty and community.
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In the original tale, Mulan passes herself off as a man to join the army, protect her father from military service and bring honor to her family. In Disney's version, however, she is also trying to break the bonds of a patriarchal society in which she has no place. After she is unmasked, Mulan explains that she has come to fight not only for her family's glory, but for her own as well.

"Americans who have experienced the once-hot woman's liberation movement obviously have difficulties understanding Mulan's traditional behavior and why this story has spread so widely," a recent editorial in Shenzhen Panorama Weekly said.

Mulan isn't the only character in the film who doesn't espouse traditional Chinese values. Not surprisingly, some complain that Mushu, a jive-talking dragon whose voice is provided by Eddie Murphy in the film's English-language version, is just too American.

For instance, when Mushu accidentally smashes a sculpture that holds a much more powerful dragon who can help Mulan, he tries to cover it up. Hiding behind some bushes, Mushu dons the stone head of the dragon and pretends to be the great dragon himself.
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B

BronsonLee

Member
btw saying a movie bombed in China in 1998 means fuck all, we live in kickass new times where China can singlehandedly carry a film to the promised land
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
JPLMD said:
Yup because the Japanese are inferior, have to let the white man come and utilize his superior knowledge to beat down the enemy who is also using superior white man technology.

Because we all know white people are better.
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that part at least is kinda historically accurate
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
BronsonLee said:
btw saying a movie bombed in China in 1998 means fuck all, we live in kickass new times where China can singlehandedly carry a film to the promised land
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Yes, but you don't think there will be issues trying to appeal to both a Western audience and specifically a Chinese audience based off the original film that didn't appeal to Chinese audiences?
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
lightskintwin said:
Yes, but you don't think there will be issues trying to appeal to both a Western audience and specifically a Chinese audience based off the original film that didn't appeal to Chinese audiences?
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No because Disney's basically the master of making shit everybody likes and they're way better at it now than they were in 1998

Henkka said:
Huh. Don't the Chinese love Kung Fu Panda? Wonder what the difference is.
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KFP is lighthearted and in the case of KFP3 was China co-produced
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Henkka said:
Huh. Don't the Chinese love Kung Fu Panda? Wonder what the difference is.
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Kung Fu Panda is an original story made by Americans that uses Chinese culture. My guess is they can appreciate it for what it is.

Mulan is a Chinese legend so Americanizing something that's so Chinese through and through is extremely apparent and distracting to Chinese audiences.

At least that's my take based off of that article.
 
P

Prototype

Member
If by "Avalanche of backlash " he means people will write angry sounding articles online about it for a few weeks before everything collectively stops giving a shit and moved on then, yes, there will be an "Avalanche of backlash"

I see where the author is coming from and his criticism is fair - the movie sounds very by the numbers Hollywood as it stands right now. Sticking closer to the original animated film would make the movie better for a number of reasons, but no one should be fooling themselves into thinking that after a little while people won't just forget about it all and find something new to be angry about.
 
H

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
border said:
Does this guy understand what a spec script is? You might as well fire up your outrage over fan fiction.
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Well, if this outrage helps in any way to keep the final script in check with casting, it could have a positive effect.
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
That plot sounds really dumb. Disney can do way better than that. Come on now.

I don't mind the part going to a Chinese actress tbh. It is set in China. It would be nice if more Asian Americans showed up onscreen but having Asians is the next best thing.

I still wouldn't pay to see a movie with that story though. Just adapt Mulan.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
lightskintwin said:
Yes, but you don't think there will be issues trying to appeal to both a Western audience and specifically a Chinese audience based off the original film that didn't appeal to Chinese audiences?
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I'm going to speak for myself here.

Personally, I love Mulan. She kicks ass and gives men a run for their money. She's inspirational for women too. If China doesn't like the fact that she did shit for her own self-worth and respect, then I guess I prefer the Western version.
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
lightskintwin said:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-developing-live-action-mulan-784892

March 30th 2015


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disneys-live-action-mulan-gets-934976

October 4th 2016



So we know the spec script is going to be used as a jumping off point and is being rewritten by two new writers. An Asian American read the spec script and leaked it to Angry Asian Man's blog. We have no idea what changes they're going to make or rewrite, only that the spec script that's being used had a White male lead. Should this Asian American have not been concerned and kept quiet, waited, and just assumed Disney would've did the right thing and completely write out that part?
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The bolded is most troubling because you are using something that has gone through changes and is out of date.

There's no real answer to what you pose because now Disney is damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're assuming ill will based off a spec script which just shows you don't understand the process. For all we know the spec script could have been well written but the story was meh and they wanted the writer's talent. There's many reasons why a studio would buy one of these and to assume the worst of it, when Disney is quite forward with its diversity atm, is just odd. Like, I get the history of Asians in Hollywood and it's great to stay vigilant but at a point there's too much vigilant and people should wait for something a bit more concrete than a spec script that admittedly has gone through rewrites.
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Cobalt Izuna said:
I'm going to speak for myself here.

Personally, I love Mulan. She kicks ass and gives men a run for their money. She's inspirational for women too. If China doesn't like the fact that she did shit for her own self-worth and respect, then I guess I prefer the Western version.
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Which is why I can understand the person's argument about casting Asian Americans and adapting Mulan as is.

Subpar Spatula said:
The bolded is most troubling because you are using something that has gone through changes and is out of date.

There's no real answer to what you pose because now Disney is damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're assuming ill will based off a spec script which just shows you don't understand the process. For all we know the spec script could have been well written but the story was meh and they wanted the writer's talent. There's many reasons why a studio would buy one of these and to assume the worst of it, when Disney is quite forward with its diversity atm, is just odd. Like, I get the history of Asians in Hollywood and it's great to stay vigilant but at a point there's too much vigilant and people should wait for something a bit more concrete than a spec script that admittedly has gone through rewrites.
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Bringing it to attention is not making an assumption. I have no idea where they're at or what they're using only that the original spec script had a white male lead which is already problematic in and of itself. Everybody else is making an assumption. I think your idea that Asian Americans in the industry should remain quiet and hope for the best is odd.
 
T

Trike

Member
lightskintwin said:
These 2 posts shouldn't be ignored in regards to Asian American casting:





pHands link:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-05-03/features/9905030250_1_disney-s-mulan-sui-dynasty-chinese
Click to expand...

Doesn't have anything to do with what I posted. I am aware that the movie didn't do well in China. I just don't think that means that we can't have a Chinese actress as Mulan, and I think dismissing the casting opportunity because Mulan didn't fare well in China makes no sense.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
Is there something to back up his claim? That script sounds unbelievable so I'm having trouble buying the idea that the movie will be not actually about Mulan
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Trike said:
Doesn't have anything to do with what I posted. I am aware that the movie didn't do well in China. I just don't think that means that we can't have a Chinese actress as Mulan, and I think dismissing the casting opportunity because Mulan didn't fare well in China makes no sense.
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Your post came across reinforcing that person's argument. LOL My bad.

I understand both sides of it. I think Disney is more concerned with the Chinese market than Asian American representation though.
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
lightskintwin said:
Bringing it to attention is not making an assumption. I have no idea where they're at or what they're using only that the original spec script had a white male lead which is already problematic in and of itself. Everybody else is making an assumption. I think your idea that Asian Americans in the industry should remain quiet and hope for the best is odd.
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But the OP doesn't really explain much about the situation or even what a spec script is. The details that matter like what a spec script is and the fact it's gone through rewrites is more than enough to hold off for a moment.

It's not problematic if a spec script has some questionable ideas because, well, they're used as framework or just for the idea or certain ideas. It's why it's been said the script has gone through rewrites. I would be with you if the script was the same as it was when bought but it isn't. It's assuming ill will based off information that's quite outdated.

I don't get why you believe I said Asian Americans should be quiet. I never said that but you need something more than an outdated spec script. Which is quite fair since, well, they tend to go through numerous rewrites.

DOWN said:
Is there something to back up his claim? That script sounds unbelievable so I'm having trouble buying the idea that the movie will be not actually about Mulan
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The only thing is the script which has been said to have gone through rewrites. The person in the OP doesn't know what those rewrites are and is going off old information.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
DOWN said:
Is there something to back up his claim? That script sounds unbelievable so I'm having trouble buying the idea that the movie will be not actually about Mulan
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There are people in the industry who have confirmed they read the script.
 
H

Harmen

Member
This makes no sense to me if true, Disney has been shown to have no problems investing in major films with minority leads these days.
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Subpar Spatula said:
But the OP doesn't really explain much about the situation or even what a spec script is. The details that matter like what a spec script is and the fact it's gone through rewrites is more than enough to hold off for a moment.

It's not problematic if a spec script has some questionable ideas because, well, they're used as framework or just for the idea or certain ideas. It's why it's been said the script has gone through rewrites. I would be with you if the script was the same as it was when bought but it isn't. It's assuming ill will based off information that's quite outdated.

I don't get why you believe I said Asian Americans should be quiet. I never said that but you need something more than an outdated spec script. Which is quite fair since, well, they tend to go through numerous rewrites.

The only thing is the script which has been said to have gone through rewrites. The person in the OP doesn't know what those rewrites are and is going off old information.
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I get what you're saying, but the problem is they don't know what has changed so they're making sure that in fact the white character is completely written out just in case. Do you understand that reasoning?
 
I

ishibear

is a goddamn bear
This is really becoming a problem. There's no way this should be as commonplace as it has become.

First Avatar gets whitewashed, then GITS now Mulan, one of the most beloved Disney heroines gets an entire story overhaul simply to plug an unnecessary white guy into the story.

Why does Hollywood keep thinking this is acceptable to whitewash Asian roles or the plot? Why?
 
L

LookAtMeGo

Member
They did it for halloween costume purposes :p

Thats pretty wack though. Would be a bad move if they stuck with the white person for the role IMO.
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
lightskintwin said:
I get what you're saying, but the problem is they don't know what has changed so they're making sure that in fact the white character is completely written out just in case. Do you understand that reasoning?
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I get that. But you can probably see how skewed this is towards there for sure being a white male lead. Heck, people in this thread already believe it to be true. I find it scary that the general audience knows more about an unfinished script and who's being cast before it's even really started.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
BronsonLee said:
Yeah I'll believe it when I see the actual script
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Pretty much my thoughts, if this were any other company I wouldn't doubt it for a second, I really don't see Disney doing this. Even if they bought a script like this, I doubt them actually putting it into production with a white male lead when they made the original animated film without one, and it was quite revered.

If they do it'll be such an insulting miscalculation that they deserve whatever raking across the coals to come their way.
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Subpar Spatula said:
I get that. But you can probably see how skewed this is towards there for sure being a white male lead. Heck, people in this thread already believe it to be true. I find it scary that the general audience knows more about an unfinished script and who's being cast than the creators.
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If Hollywood didn't have issues of white savior narratives, framing culturally ethnic stories around white protagonists and perspective, whitewashing in general, cultural appropriation, and Asian american representation, then this outrage over an unfinished script may never have happened.

It's always amazing how people continue to construct their arguments in a vacuum, as if there isn't any context to any of this. This is merely a symptom to a much larger problem Hollywood has had.
 
F

FinaruDensetsu

Member
The notion that mainland Chinese audience will only care if the actress is from China is completely false. It's never been true in any industry where talented Chinese people can get notoriety.

Go see how popular Jeremy Lin is in China and Taiwan despite being a Taiwanese-American NBA player who barely speaks Chinese.

Chinese people want to see Chinese people in Hollywood regardless if they are Chinese or Chinese-American.
 
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