Who is the greatest Videogame music composer of all time?

ok i wrote the word "movie-like" i guess lol

I think we dig gaming music almost the same way. Better composition is indeed POSSIBLE because nowadays you have more options. I know there was some very bad soundtracks in NES times but you know, back then, when a title was standing out you knew about it. There was less games for a start. Today, it's hard to play everything or just fall on great soundtrack on luck. Today we have the technic but it doesn't bring more talent.
Logically there must be more good composers out there than before but from a one person stand point, it's like i fall on more bad stuff.

If i take a parallel with real music, for me it goes the same; the more i listen to music, the more i notice there's bad stuff out there. Then i suppose that gaming music is just as good as before and it's maybe just our tastes evolving.

I'm also out of luck i guess, most soundtrack you just mentionned i didn't heard!!
 
My nominees:

Graeme Norgate - Blast Corps, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini, Timesplitters, Timesplitters 2...

Alexander Brandon - Tyrian, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex...

Yuzo Koshiro - Yuzo's been mentioned enough times in this thread that I think everyone knows what he's done.
 
dark10x said:
Really? It must be VERY different from the original then, eh?
The big difference is that the music is not so laid back and has a stronger melodic drive to it, similar classic Kondo stuff. Unfortunately, most of the samples are similar to the original, so people who aren't particularily happy with Nintendo's midi style approach won't be moved. But if you can get beyond that, there some very good compositions. I particularily like the theme for the Wistful Wins area of the game--it has a menancing chord structure married to a sad/lonely type of melony. It's darker and moodier than anything I remember from the first Pikmin, which I think is very appropriate for the last leg of the game.
 
Saori Kobayashi - Panzer Dragoon Saga/Orta

Mega Man 2 had one of the greatest soundtracks to a game, but it was done by multiple people. Same with NiGHTS.
 
I'm sure Jesper Kyd is from the Amiga demo-scene days, can't remember what group he was in though. Anyone remember?

There was *loads* of good music in Amiga demos.

Edit: Did some digging, he was member of Silents/TSL in the Amiga demo-scene days, and did the music to some classic demos - Global Trash, Hardwired ... I ripped the mods to them, great tunes! :D

His website is www.jesperkyd.com
 
Squeak said:
Follin and Jeroen Tel are equally good, they have quite different styles but when it comes to overall greatness of their work they are equals.
If you need convincing take a listen to the following tunes:

No, i don't need convincing :) i love Jeroen, but i think tim follin has a more 'personal' style and more creativity.
 
dark10x said:
Ah, that's kind of what I thought. That's the thing, though, each generation of game music had their own problems. You say that too many soundtracks are "movie-like" today, but there were other different problems with many soundtracks back in the NES era. They were not all catchy, high quality music...

I'll toss out a few examples of what I really enjoyed as of the "CD" generation that I believe go above and beyond what could possibly have been achieved during the older generations but also remain unique and interesting. "Movie like" isn't how any of these could be described...

Katamari Damashii, Jet Set Radio, Breath of Fire V - Dragon Quarter, Beyond Good & Evil, Star Ocean 3, REZ, Silent Hill series in general, Soukaigi, Baroque, AZEL - Panzer Saga, Evil Twin, Gitarooman, Gungrave, Berserk, Napple Tale, Unlimited SaGa, Hitman Contracts, ICO, Klonoa 2 (especially the Wahoo Stomp), PSO, Ridge Racer Type-4, Shadow Hearts 2, Voodoo Vince, Guily Gear XX, Crimson Sea, Drakengard, Contra SS, Halo, Ecco the Dolphin CD through DotF, etc. etc. etc.

How many of these have you listened to? I mean, really listened to? There is such a wide range of expressions to be found within those titles. When someone lists NES music, on the other hand, you'll find some SERIOUSLY catchy tunes in there...but they can only achieve so much. They stand out due to composition...but those soundtracks above can stand out due to composition, arrangement, and a variety of other factors. I just feel that you can achieve so much more with today's options, but it takes plenty of talent to achieve that...just as it did during the olden days.

So, really, game music has not degraded. It has changed, but just as there was crap 15 years ago...there is also crap today. It's up to you to seek out the cream of the crop.

I will also say that being "movie like" hardly means that the music within is actually generic. There are plenty of high quality movie-like scores available today that certainly don't come off as generic. If anything, it's yet another genre that wasn't entirely possible in the olden days. It can be over-used, of course...


You make some good points, but I do think most music sucks today. Thinking back on it, most music sucked on games in the past as well, but as I am a huge 2D whore my nostalgia probably clouds that a little bit.

One thing that always pisses me off though is how it seems like the music of games is an afterthought. Honestly, music has way more of an impact on me then graphics, but this might not be true for most gamers and it sure has hell doesn't impact sales the way graphics do. I mean it is always nice to have everything be perfect, but you get over the graphics within the first 15 minutes you boot a game and focus on the gameplay, but the music will stay with you the entire time you play the game and IMHO it has a much bigger effect on your enjoyment of a game. This doesn't apply to all games of course, but for anything outside of sports, racing, or some sort of simualtion I think it holds true.
 
dark10x said:
Wait, is the Tim Follin being discussed here the same Tim Follin responsible for the recent Ecco soundtrack?

Yeah, it's the same guy. He was not in his best shape when he composed Ecco's music, though. Still one of the best soundtracks i've heard this generation, but not quite up there with his tunes for Amiga and C64: Led Storm, Bionic Commando, Black Lamp (c64 only) Ghouls'n'ghosts, Agent X2 (c64 only)...Back in the days i used to buy every game he composed the music for, in every available version.
I thought he kinda sounded like Rick Wakeman at times.
 
Jeremy Soule
Jesper Kyd
Clint Bajakian (head of lucasarts music department, did some amazing soundtracks like Outlaws, Grim Fandango, etc...)
 
I just think it's harder for game soundtracks to stand-out now, compared to the 8-bit and 16-bit days. Back then there was a very distinct technical difference between the shite music and the good. Now everything is basically CD quality, it just comes down to taste.

The more offbeat stuff like Jet Set Radio and Katamari can still make you sit-up and take notice. And they are great soundtracks. But it's nothing though compared to hearing say Thing On A Spring, Monty On The Run or the Ocean Loader music for the first time on the C64. That was hearing something you'd never heard before. Similar things happened on the Amiga with samples.

Musicians could repeatedly raise the bar back then, they were in new territory.
 
It's a tie between chrono trigger dude and earthbound dude (and yeah crazily enough, that's their real names).
 
I have never heard of this Ron Hubbard guy ... I got the SID pack and there's a trillion tracks in there and I don't know where to start. More specific suggestions, please.

The C64 was before my time, and I'm 24, so I'm sure there's a lot of people out there unfamiliar with this guy. Educate, don't eduhate!

EDIT: Also, I know it's hard for you Europeans to fathom, but shitnoone had a C64 or Amiga in the States.
 
JC10001 said:
Whoever the hell did Megaman 2's music.

Yoko Shimomura (Street Fighter II, Front Mission, Mario RPG, etc)

Those are also two good picks (well, whoever did the music for Megaman 2-- great soundtrack).


And drohne, how can you like the Streets of Rage intro music better than the primary boss music? Especially considering that the intro tune is a complete ripoff of Enigma's "Sadness"-- thank God that videogames were under the radar more back then or Sega might've been sued. :D


And also Hip Tanaka, now that I know he did the score for Metroid (and I assume Super Metroid?). Incredible stuff in there, particularly in SM.


And also, whoever the heck did Castlevania 4's soundtrack-- man was that great. Some of my all-time favorite tracks are on there, and it was really innovative to boot.
 
Koji Kondo (like I said earlier) is just freaking awesome, but I forgot about Hip Tanaka (god, I love that name...why can't I have a cool, beatific nick like that IRL), and how much I love the Earthbound soundtrack.


Also one more. Whoever the hell did the Space Harrier and Space Harrier II soundtracks. Those songs just make me want to play on, man!
 
Overall, I'd say Koji Kondo is greatest vidoegame composer. But here are few others that I've really liked:

Jun Ishikawa: Fountain of Dreams - Kirby Super Star (SNES)

Hajime Hiraswaw: Planet Corneria - Star Fox (SNES)

David Wise: Aquatic Ambiance - DKC (SNES)
 
JJConrad said:
David Wise: Aquatic Ambiance - DKC (SNES)

Why does everyone like the DKC water theme? Seriously ... what's special about it? I'm not making fun of people or being sarcastic. I just can't hear anything interesting about it at all.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
Why does everyone like the DKC water theme? Seriously ... what's special about it? I'm not making fun of people or being sarcastic. I just can't hear anything interesting about it at all.

Sacrilege! Release the hounds! :D


That's one of the greatest themes ever imo. So serene.
 
I'll do some of the Western guys.

Stuart Chatwood - Prince of Persia
Christophe Heral - Beyond Good & Evil
Steve Henifin - Blood Omen, Eternal Darkness
Robin Beanland - Jet Force Gemini, Conker 64
Jeremy Soule - Morrowind, Neverwinter, etc.
Mark Morgan - Planescape Torment

And that Factor 5 guy, Chris Huelsbeck, he did some amazing stuff before he was relegated to doing Star Wars music for games only.
 
Wyzdom said:
ok i wrote the word "movie-like" i guess lol

I think we dig gaming music almost the same way. Better composition is indeed POSSIBLE because nowadays you have more options. I know there was some very bad soundtracks in NES times but you know, back then, when a title was standing out you knew about it. There was less games for a start. Today, it's hard to play everything or just fall on great soundtrack on luck. Today we have the technic but it doesn't bring more talent.
Logically there must be more good composers out there than before but from a one person stand point, it's like i fall on more bad stuff.

If i take a parallel with real music, for me it goes the same; the more i listen to music, the more i notice there's bad stuff out there. Then i suppose that gaming music is just as good as before and it's maybe just our tastes evolving.

I'm also out of luck i guess, most soundtrack you just mentionned i didn't heard!!

Well, my friend, I have but one suggestion for you...

Get involved in the game music community! Seriously! A lot of the best music I've heard was first heard in soundtrack form. In many cases, the music I might have heard prior to the release of a game will drive me to check out the game. All of those soundtracks I listed are top grade stuff and you should check them out. I think you might just be ultra suprised by how incredibly good a lot of it is. I can now see why your opinion of modern day game music was not incredibly high. You've simply missed out on the best of the best!

Start by joining up at www.gamingforce.com and get on the forums. Don't just jump right into the FTPs and start downloading or something, but really get in there and look through discussions. You'll find all kinds of good stuff you may never have heard of...

Heck, they are hosting another music contest (the second this summer). This time, we are voting on the best RPG battle tracks. I had heard most of the music prior to the contest, but found myself shocked and suprised by a track from a game known as "Neorude II". It is always a pleasant suprise to find new game music that you've never heard of before.

I mean, looking at that list I posted, one of my favorite soundtracks on there comes from a game I have never even SEEN before. Soukaigi was composed by Hiroki Kikuta of Seiken Densetsu 2 & 3 fame (Secret of Mana). It is, in my opinion, the finest work he has ever done. It was also created entirely with real instruments. No synth here.

That is the kind of thing you need to search for. Of course, if you aren't interested in just hearing the music...I guess you'll be missing out. Plenty of games have shit music and, sadly, many of those games are very popular.

I challenge anyone who claims that game music these days sucks to take a look at some of this stuff...

From my last post...

Katamari Damashii, Jet Set Radio, Breath of Fire V - Dragon Quarter, Beyond Good & Evil, Star Ocean 3, REZ, Silent Hill series in general, Soukaigi, Baroque, AZEL - Panzer Saga, Evil Twin, Gitarooman, Gungrave, Berserk, Napple Tale, Unlimited SaGa, Hitman Contracts, ICO, Klonoa 2 (especially the Wahoo Stomp), PSO, Ridge Racer Type-4, Shadow Hearts 2, Voodoo Vince, Guily Gear XX, Crimson Sea, Drakengard, Contra SS, Halo, Ecco the Dolphin CD through DotF...

...and even more...

ANUBIS Zone of the Enders. Contra SS, Elemental Gearbolt (INCREDIBLE - A MUST HEAR), Gradius V, Kessen II, Lost Child, Magna Carta - The Phantom of Avalanche, Megaman Network Transmission, Baten Kaitos, Ollie King, Outcast, PRIMAL, Rygar, Soul Blade, Tenchu, TOBOL #1, Vib Ribbon, Xenosaga II, Rayman and Ys VI.

That even fails to include a lot of the other soundtracks that people always denote as classics. If you find that you have not heard many of those soundtracks, stop cheating yourself and go take a listen. Game music today is better than it has ever been, but you have to look harder than ever. A great game does not always mean great music (sadly).
 
I also want to note, whoever did Star Ocean 3, did a pretty damn good job.

Just wanted to mention that cause I'm playing that game right now.
 
Yuzo Koshiro (Streets of Rage, Actraiser, Beyond Oasis)
Ryo Yonemitsu/Falcom Sound Team JDK (Ys series)
Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono Trigger, Shadow Hearts, Xenogears/saga)
Hiroki Kikuta (Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3, Soukagi) - though where is this guy?
Yoko Shimomura (Live A Live, Mario RPG)
Motoi Sakuraba (Tales, Star Ocean, Shining Force 3, Golden Sun, Mario Tennis)
Nobuo Uematsu (you should know this by now!)
 
The SID gods:

Tim Follin
Rub Hubbard
Chris Hülsbeck


On the japanese side of things...

Yasunori Mitsuda
Koji Kondo
Hiroki Kikuta

Special mention for David Wise. This guy kicked ass during the NES days.
 
Heh, I did not realize until recently that Chris Hülsbeck was responsible for the soundtrack to Extreme Assault on the PC...

I wonder if he has done anything else beyond that?
 
Huh... none of you guys mentioned these two, which are favorites of mine:

Iwadare Noriyuki - Lunar games, Growlanser games, Grandia games, lots more
Matsuura Masaya - Parappa games, UmJammer Lammy, Vib Ribbon, Mojib Ribbon, etc

and throw another vote for Kanno Youko.

dark10x said:
Well, I didn't want to mention those two as they do not typically compose music for games...but if we could include them, both would sit at the top of my list.

Yoko Kanno is one of my favorite composers of all time. Her music displays more variety than just about any other composer I've EVER encountered...and all of it is generally REALLY good.

That's not true at all... Kanno STARTED her career on video game music. She composed the soundtracks to many SFC KOEI games like Uncharted Waters, Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, etc.

One CD that may still be in print is this one -

koeigmw.jpg


But her best video game work is definitely:
B00005HLU7.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
B00005HNJ9.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
 
That's not true at all... Kanno STARTED her career on video game music. She composed the soundtracks to many SFC KOEI games like Uncharted Waters, Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, etc.

Heh, that's true. I happen to have some of her older game music albums, actually. I did not realize that her career started with game audio, though. That's interesting...
 
Dark, i prefer to hear game music in the game. The music is so an important part of a game for me that just listening the music alone doesn't cut it. I have to judge it WITH the game. I look back at music alone AFTER i play a game though. And i also like remixes and covers = i'm always on "overclockedremix.org" ;)
 
Wyzdom said:
Dark, i prefer to hear game music in the game. The music is so an important part of a game for me that just listening the music alone doesn't cut it. I have to judge it WITH the game. I look back at music alone AFTER i play a game though. And i also like remixes and covers = i'm always on "overclockedremix.org" ;)

I generally do as well, but sometimes, there is no other option. I mean, games like Soukaigi and Unlimited SaGa are not something I'd play, but the soundtracks are godly. Why miss out of them?

The point here is that you really can't claim that game music is poor overall if you lack experience. I mean, if you are limited to playing games with poor music...you would likely form the opinion that game music sucks. I'm quite a fan of the stuff, I must admit, so I hear almost all of the good stuff.

Like I mentioned before, if you were a hardcore Nintendo fan and pretty much stuck to Nintendo games on the GC, you might be thinking that game music sucks these days when, in fact, the problem lies with the games being played.
 
About time someone mentioned Two Five from the LUNAR games, Noriyuki Iwadare and Isao Mizoguchi. Their compositions really captured the whole range of emotions that gets expressed in the drama of an RPG.
 
Lazy8s said:
About time someone mentioned Two Five from the LUNAR games, Noriyuki Iwadare and Isao Mizoguchi. Their compositions really captured the whole range of emotions that gets expressed in the drama of an RPG.

I generally love Iwadare's, but I never could get into the actual Lunar music used during the game. I've only played the PSX and SegaCD versions of the Lunar titles, and both of them had low quality music in general...but I DO have a number of high quality Lunar tracks on my PC. Could those have originated in the Saturn version of Lunar? The SegaCD situation makes sense, but I just don't understand why the PSX version uses such low quality music. You could do so much more with the PSX sound chip...
 
dark10x said:
I generally do as well, but sometimes, there is no other option. I mean, games like Soukaigi and Unlimited SaGa are not something I'd play, but the soundtracks are godly. Why miss out of them?

The point here is that you really can't claim that game music is poor overall if you lack experience. I mean, if you are limited to playing games with poor music...you would likely form the opinion that game music sucks. I'm quite a fan of the stuff, I must admit, so I hear almost all of the good stuff.

Like I mentioned before, if you were a hardcore Nintendo fan and pretty much stuck to Nintendo games on the GC, you might be thinking that game music sucks these days when, in fact, the problem lies with the games being played.

Well, i always did that. And pretty sure i still play the same percentage of games that are out then back then. Oh maybe not? I should study numbers about that. If i play the same average number of games than before compared to what is coming out and i still feel that the music is getting poorer, it would mean to overall quality is going down.

I think there's more games now so i play less games compared to the total existing. Logically i would be supposed to fall on the same percentage of good stuff in the games i play but i feel otherwise.
I think it may me my tastes for music becoming more exigent with experience. I listen to a freaking load of music and it's easy to bore me if you show me something i've heard 100 times...

So the question is still pending!!! Does the music in gaming right now REALLY is getting poorer? lol
 
Wyzdom said:
Well, i always did that. And pretty sure i still play the same percentage of games that are out then back then. Oh maybe not? I should study numbers about that. If i play the same average number of games than before compared to what is coming out and i still feel that the music is getting poorer, it would mean to overall quality is going down.

I think there's more games now so i play less games compared to the total existing. Logically i would be supposed to fall on the same percentage of good stuff in the games i play but i feel otherwise.
I think it may me my tastes for music becoming more exigent with experience. I listen to a freaking load of music and it's easy to bore me if you show me something i've heard 100 times...

So the question is still pending!!! Does the music in gaming right now REALLY is getting poorer? lol

It depends on your choice of games! That's the problem! A lot of the best music in gaming today originates in less popular/niche titles. That was not really the case during older generations. The best music during those time periods typically was found in the more popular titles...

That's why I use the Nintendo example. If you've been playing Nintendo games all this time, you would probably feel that music is getting worse as older Nintendo games have had better soundtracks than most of the recent titles.

Some popular games simply have really bad music. Jak and Daxter, for instance, has been a pretty popular platform series...but like the Crash titles, the music is COMPLETE JUNK. You have niche games like Katamari Damashii, JSRF, and Klonoa 2 pumping out GREAT soundtracks while popular titles like Jak and Daxter or Mario Sunshine suffer from generic, boring music. Then you start looking at other popular "casual" games, and you generally end up finding either licensed music or generic garbage. That's how times have changed. The best music in the industry is often found in under-appreciated titles...

Looking at my list above, could you tell me which soundtracks you have NOT heard? I would like to see just what you have missed...
 
dark10x:
I generally love Iwadare's, but I never could get into the actual Lunar music used during the game.
The music throughout the game reflected the characterizations of the heroes and villains very well, yet it went beyond just the expected by conveying the deeper contexts that fleshed out the multi-dimensionality of the scenes. At the end of Lunar 2: Eternal Blue when Hiro must ascend the Blue Spire to make the impossible journey, the musical piece is both rousing to reflect Hiro's daring yet also cautionary to emphasize the uncertainty of his fate.
You could do so much more with the PSX sound chip...
The PS's sound chip, and the PS2's sound hardware by extension, are pretty simplistic compared to the Saturn's and Dreamcast's respectively. Their sound chips support... just the reverb effect. Saturn and Dreamcast use successive generations of fully-featured chips specialized by Yamaha.
 
The PS's sound chip, and the PS2's sound hardware by extension, are pretty simplistic compared to the Saturn's and Dreamcast's respectively. Their sound chips support... just the reverb effect. Saturn and Dreamcast use successive generations of fully-featured chips specialized by Yamaha.

That may be so, but they were used far more effectively...

Most Dreamcast games sound just terrible, though most of it lies in the fault of poor compression. Scratchy, almost mono sound was very common on both Saturn and Dreamcast. Was this a disc space issue?

Did the Dreamcast/Saturn handle music in a similar fashion to the PSX/PS2? While many games used pre-recorded audio, a lot of suprisingly great sounding games do not. Chrono Cross, Xenosaga, Onimusha, Breath of Fire V, etc. all sound amazing...but all of them use very little space. The acronymn "PSF" was assigned to this type of audio when a plug-in was created for the PC...

Dreamcast games that didn't use pre-recorded audio tended to sound pretty poor. Most of Shenmue's music sounded like a cheap wavetable, for example...and couldn't even begin to approach the quality of stuff like Chrono Cross. Also, a lot of DC developers seemed to have had difficulty with the sound chip. There were a LOT of audio related glitches in earlier DC titles, for example.

Do you have any details on that sound format? It isn't like XA or WAV or anything, where you have pre-recorded files that are simply being played back. Do they simply use samples or something? Perhaps the sound chip is less advanced, but the sound is produces is, in general, very good. What is it about the Saturn and Dreamcast sound chips that make them so impressive? Is this a case where you have something impressive but it is never used properly? I've even heard many people make claims that the Saturn hardware was more powerful than the PSX when rendering 3D. It's hard to know who to believe...
 
dark10x said:
Start by joining up at www.gamingforce.com and get on the forums. Don't just jump right into the FTPs and start downloading or something, but really get in there and look through discussions. You'll find all kinds of good stuff you may never have heard of...


Thanks for the hint, I just registered there.
 
dark10x said:
Are you suggesting that Japanese composers have no place then? Sounds like a rather biased remark to me. I don't believe anyone suggested that nominations need be limited to composers from a specific region...except you.

Anyways, some top nominations...

Masashi Hamauzu
Jesper Kyd
Yasunori Mitsuda
Motoi Sakuraba
Akira Yamaoka
Marty O'Donnell
Hitoshi Sakimoto
Richard Jacques

This is a funny ass reply.
 
dark10x,
Was this a disc space issue?
Shenmue has spoken dialogue for multiple forms of every question asked and response/comment made, so disc space was definitely the issue there.
Most of Shenmue's music sounded like a cheap wavetable, for example...and couldn't even begin to approach the quality of stuff like Chrono Cross.
For Shenmue, the disc drive is tied up having to stream new characters and animation in for the dynamically progressing world. The sound chip is then left to generate the whole array of audio sources where it composes the moody background music and layers on a whole other song simultaneously from the street jingles that play outside the Tomato conevenience store and during Christmas (and Tom's cassette player) while also mixing in all of the local audio and all of ambient sound effects.

Can't say regarding PlayStation audio formats.
I've even heard many people make claims that the Saturn hardware was more powerful than the PSX when rendering 3D. It's hard to know who to believe...
What constitutes "power" is entirely related to the kinds of tasks being considered. The Saturn had areas of more flexibility and performance, but it was spread among a convoluted orchestration of separate processors which only a handful of games like Virtua Cop 2 and NiGHTS (and Saturn Shenmue) juggled effectively.
 
JackFrost2012 said:
I have never heard of this Ron Hubbard guy ... I got the SID pack and there's a trillion tracks in there and I don't know where to start. More specific suggestions, please.

The C64 was before my time, and I'm 24, so I'm sure there's a lot of people out there unfamiliar with this guy. Educate, don't eduhate!

EDIT: Also, I know it's hard for you Europeans to fathom, but shitnoone had a C64 or Amiga in the States.
IMO Rob Hubbard is a tiny tad overrated. Sure he was the one who pretty much single-handedly made videogame music worth listening to, and he has done some amazing pieces, but the quantity of those pieces are not exactly overwhelming, and they are not of quite the same technical quality of some of the other C64/Amiga composers.
That said, the following Rob Hubbard tunes are unmissable:

Commando
Crazy Comets
Delta
I-Ball
Kentilla
Lightforce
Master of Magic
Sanxion
Shockway Rider
Star Paws
Thing on a Spring
Thrust

Remember as with everything else, ninety percent of what comes out is sh*t, but with the C64 the amount of music that was/is made for it is so enormous, that there is a huge amount of good stuff among the bad. So don't be discouraged if you have to sift through a lot of blanks.
 
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