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[systemfehler]

Student behind schedule: 50€/month for health insurance, used to be 25€ but that support funding was cut.

Unemployed person who doesn't want to work: actually gets money paid and free health insurance.


The system in Austria is easily abused by people visiting doctors, hospitals for fun and afterwards go free to a health spa because they got a prescription by a friend. This is like paid holidays and combined with people going to a hospital because of everything and ordering every test - hell even going to the emergency center at hospital with a cold is free here.

That needs to change or future generations won't be able to have sufficient health care without being ruined. I personally would pay a premium tax or solidarity fee when I start a fulltime job with a good wage to support others (health care, education, etc.) if the system would be less corrupt and abused. Nah rather spend the money to bail out banks until they can get massive profits again. Yay demoCRA(Z)Y

 

[demolitio]

I think the system can be greatly improved, however the basis works fine - charge for beauty, non-essential procedures, life-saving ones should be free. It's not your fault you got cancer, or disease that cannot be cured easily. Could happen to everyone, so it is fair for everyone to pool resources together.

They ARE free if you can't afford it. My alcoholic uncle got 2 free surgeries because he couldn't pay the bills and had no insurance. The hospital will just write it off and charge everyone else more to cover it which is why MRI's and other tests are so much more expensive at a hospital than at any of their competitors. Basically they get what they can from people who can pay and cut their losses on others.

I've had plenty of shit written off even with insurance by filling out an aid form and they covered the whole cost until my deductible is met.

Not saying you aren't right, but it does exist right now and my aunt is actually one of those people. They know they aren't getting much money for her cancer treatment but they aren't going to stop helping her. There's a lot of problems to be fixed, but there's also a lot of exaggerations about it because they sure as hell didn't let my aunt die and they didn't kick me out for not paying right away and even suggested the aid form to me.

Like mentioned above, I'd love the idea of perfect healthcare but it's something that'd take a lot of time to work out to stop abuse. The quick-fix bill isn't the answer on many levels.

 

[dc89]

I had an MRI three weeks ago, and it was free.

Yes, I live in the UK. Never had any issues with the NHS whatsoever, and have never EVER had to pay for any operations or treatment before in my life, apart from the measly £7 standard fee for prescriptions.

THIS! The NHS saved my mums life from cancer. And the same for my Nan who has sadly since passed on.

The NHS needs work, some things are not right with it but it really is a great thing.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I have great insurance in the Netherlands,

295 a month including dental for both me and my fiance, which work pays (but they pay it before tax) generally I pay roughly half of that amount to be insured. So around 1800 a year for 2 people with one of the highest grades of insurance. I realise that's a work benefit, but I still think it's better than whats going on in the states.

Also although it's privatised, people are forced to have it.\

Literally everybody in America that refers to 'Obamacare' in a negative fashion is a terrible person at heart. It's absolutely crazy thinking 'fuck poor people they should have go insurance like me'. It doesn't even benefit you to think like that, it negatively impacts your bills, the quality of life in your environment... pretty much everything. It's simply wrong, on every conceivable metric.

The Dutch system seems to make some sense. From what I can figure, you pay for about half your healthcare costs through payroll taxes that employers pay which goes into a fund controlled by the government and the other half is through premiums to insurance plans that everyone obligated to have (with those plans being something your employer can potentially negotiate a better rate for). Also insurers can't impose deductibles and co-pays, which makes a lot of sense but sounds so radical in the US.

It bugs me that there are better solutions but we don't have any way of introducing them in the US.

 

[squidyj]

Eww what in the hell?

I'll keep my system, thanks. I'm not going to have trouble getting medical insurance with my career anyway.

Here, allow me to fight bullshit with statistics.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2011000/chap/h-s/tbl/tbl12-eng.htm

Nearly half of all specialist referrals occur in less than a month. Only 15% take longer than 3 months.

 

[Castor Krieg]

They ARE free if you can't afford it. My alcoholic uncle got 2 free surgeries because he couldn't pay the bills and had no insurance. The hospital will just write it off and charge everyone else more to cover it which is why MRI's and other tests are so much more expensive at a hospital than at any of their competitors. Basically they get what they can from people who can pay and cut their losses on others.

As I understand the idea here is everyone should get medical care, even if they are the worst human beings. That's a HUMANITARIAN thing to do, as opposed to "bad luck, go die" things we had in Middle Ages. Ofc at the same time USA does not provide medical care for all its citizens...

 

[demolitio]

As I understand the idea here is everyone should get medical care, even if they are the worst human beings. That's a HUMANITARIAN thing to do, as opposed to "bad luck, go die" things we had in Middle Ages. Ofc at the same time USA does not provide medical care for all its citizens...

All my point was that people can get shit for free, but thanks for throwing some sensationalist assumption into it. So really, all I was saying is that it's very possible and easier than most make it out to be as I've gotten things done for free too.

I guess by making that point automatically meant I 100% disagreed with you and want my uncle to die because the Middle Ages is cool. No one said not everyone should get treatment, but all I said was that you CAN and most people like my uncle do which is why it's so expensive at a hospital in the first place...An overhaul is needed, but that doesn't mean free is impossible RIGHT NOW.

I guess I'll continue to pay the French price for an MRI here in America but most people skip over that point too since hospitals are all that exist here apparently. Besides, the 10 other options within 15 miles of me of course...What do I know only having 20+ in 3 years though?

Edit: Actually, the hospital actually wrote us out a check for money we already sent in one time which shocked the shit out of us. In a competitive market, your choice is everything and sometimes that means driving an extra mile out but will save you in the long run. Should it be this way? No. Does that mean there isn't good going on? No. The pharmaceutical companies should be the first thing to address.

Hell, there's no cure for my problems yet they still don't throw me to the curb. There are some major problems with the system but there's a ton of exaggerations in here too.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

The NHS needs work, some things are not right with it but it really is a great thing.

It should be pointed out to non UK residents of this forum that we in the UK do have a choice when it comes to healthcare, that is, there is a fully functioning private health industry for you to opt into if you have the money, or provided by an employer.

The idea that we live in a take it or leave it, socialist hell hole of state medicine is a complete myth.

In fact one of the great outcomes of having the best of both worlds is that if the NHS cant provide the required treatment within the mandatory time limits, they will get a private clinic to provide treatment, with the NHS picking up the bill. This tends to be for non life threatening conditions only, because if you have such a serious condition you jump to the top of the queue so to speak and will be seen and treated as soon as necessary.

I don't see why America cant have such a system..the only thing stopping it are vested interests in big business.

 

[GroteSmurf]

I have to say. I bitch alot about the taxes in the Netherlands but still I wouldn't want to change our healthcare system.
I pay around 250 euro a month which includes healthcare for my wife and my son. Next to that i have a own risk (eigen risico) fee of 200 euro per year. I have to pay that in the first months of the year because of my Crohn medicine.

But I didn't pay anything else for my 6 weeks hospital visit, MRI, catscan etc.
Because I used prednison i got a side effect called Avascular necrosis, which basically means your hip joint crumbles away because it doesn't get any blood anymore.

It hurts like hell and I was cripple for a year before they found out what was wrong with me. In the end I needed a total hip replacement. Costs? Nothing....

Not sure how much I would've paid in the US (if any) but I just like to give my support to universal health care

/Netherlands

 

[Kurtofan]

Is your treatment costly ? Mine is so cheap. Something like 3 euros every month. But whenever I need to go to hospital (every 3 month) it would cost me an arm and a leg.

Some people say that I'm ruining the system. I don't think so. I'm not abusing it. I'm doing my part (taking the subway for appointment, not asking for taxi + coverage, etc...)

Well kind of yeah, every two months I take my treatment of Remicade at the hospital for my Crohn's disease and Remicade costs 1100 dollars per vials, and a dose is about 2 or 4 vials depending on the weight.
So yeah I kind of feel bad, but I never wanted to be sick in the first place anyway.
Remicade is a last measure treatment for a Crohn's disease that goes awry.I am very grateful for the state coverage, since there's no way I would be able to afford it without it.

 

[Subprime]

This shit still baffles me.

 

[-viper-]

It should be pointed out to non UK residents of this forum that we in the UK do have a choice when it comes to healthcare, that is, there is a fully functioning private health industry for you to opt into if you have the money, or provided by an employer.

The idea that we live in a take it or leave it, socialist hell hole of state medicine is a complete myth.

In fact one of the great outcomes of having the best of both worlds is that if the NHS cant provide the required treatment within the mandatory time limits, they will get a private clinic to provide treatment, with the NHS picking up the bill. This tends to be for non life threatening conditions only, because if you have such a serious condition you jump to the top of the queue so to speak and will be seen and treated as soon as necessary.

I don't see why America cant have such a system..the only thing stopping it are vested interests in big business.

Indeed. It's excellent.

I'm thankful the health practitioners in the United Kingdom actually care about saving lives rather than squeezing every last pence from the patients.

It's a shame the current government has passed through the health bill which allows the NHS to uptake 49% private clinics. It's a fucking joke. The NHS is a service funded by the public and now they expect us to have spaces for cunts who want to pay money?

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I still can't believe people in a first-world country are dying, because they can't afford going to the hospital.

I really don't hope I have to move to USA in the future.

 

[antipod]

If you americans can afford to buy iPads you can afford the healthcare.

 

[jorma]

If you americans can afford to buy iPads you can afford the healthcare.

On that note, it's sort of odd that pretty much everything is cheaper in america compared to europe - except for health care and education.

 

[frankie_baby]

seriously america just pay a little tiny bit more tax nationalise the hospitals and have your own NHS, seriously within 18 months you'll all wonder what the fuss is about and think it should've been done 60 years ago

 

[antipod]

On that note, it's sort of odd that pretty much everything is cheaper in america compared to europe - except for health care and education.

The difference is that in most other things the market sets the prices after how much you can afford.

With the healthcare, as I understand it (since I'm european and have just read about it), the market sets the prices after how much the insurance companies can afford to pay.

 

[JGS]

If you americans can afford to buy iPads you can afford the healthcare.

Most of us can afford healthcare or at least the insurance premiums (Who are the good guys in the article interestly).

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I'm in the US and had an MRI of my knee about a month ago. total was $4024 before insurance deductions. I think I'm still going to have to pay about $1000 once I get my final bill.

Did you take an arrow to the knee? And $1000 for an MRI? Goddamn. I'm glad I live in such a godless communist shithole as Norway.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

The Dutch system seems to make some sense. From what I can figure, you pay for about half your healthcare costs through payroll taxes that employers pay which goes into a fund controlled by the government and the other half is through premiums to insurance plans that everyone obligated to have (with those plans being something your employer can potentially negotiate a better rate for). Also insurers can't impose deductibles and co-pays, which makes a lot of sense but sounds so radical in the US.

It bugs me that there are better solutions but we don't have any way of introducing them in the US.

It seems pretty good and everything is covered pretty much. People can afford to be a bit dim about what you're covered for. My girlfriend is from Peru and I wanted to switch her to my insurance, but her father was extremely concerned and wanted to know things like 'upper limit for cover' and so on.

Nobody knew what I was talking about, I didn't know what I was talking about and eventually someone said 'the doctors have to fix you or they can't fix you and you die from it'

Seems like a good system. Evenutally the HR lady said 'here's the health care book' which has all the stipulations for cosmetic surgeries and whatever but aside from that, if you're sick you get treatment. you do have a 220 euro 'own risk' amount that per year you will have to pay. If medicines fall out of cover or something, you will have to make up a percentage of it or something. I just budget for having to spend 220 a year on health (apart from payroll) If I get a bill for lower than 220 euro at the end of the year, I pay it and go get steak with the change.

Dental is a little different and has definite grades, with higher 'own risk' amounts and things.

 

[oneils]

lolwut? Why would anyone in Canada spend almost 5k per year on health care?

The only health care I've paid for in Canada is massages and chiropractic care. Both of which are covered at 75% by my work insurance policy though, so even then I only pay a couple of hundred per year.

Also, I thought they also had free health care in Europe?

That is the per capita cost of health care in Canada. It is paid for by your taxes. Obviously health care providers get paid. It is to the tune of approximately 5k person. Paid for by taxpayers.

 

[speedpop]

This shit still baffles me.

You and I both.

 

[Open Source]

I'd be interested to compare how much spending per capita is on specialist care across the various countries. I'd bet that this is a major driver of additional cost.

Anecdotally, the US has the best specialists, and rich people often come here from other countries to ensure they get the best treatment. The extremely high salaries for specialists serves to attract talented doctors from other countries. However, medical outcomes don't indicate that care is better here than elsewhere.

The United States also has significant demographic differences from other countries like the Netherlands and Denmark. Those countries are much more homogeneous and thus do no have to impose as drastically inequal a cost burden to achieve universal coverage.

I'd also like to see things like staffing numbers for other systems (nurse to patient ratios, etc.) and the salaries that the staff earns.

Finally, people in other countries sue the hell out of their doctors a lot less, resulting in lower legal costs and (perhaps more importantly) less defensive medicine.

 

[Dash27]

It should be pointed out to non UK residents of this forum that we in the UK do have a choice when it comes to healthcare, that is, there is a fully functioning private health industry for you to opt into if you have the money, or provided by an employer.

The idea that we live in a take it or leave it, socialist hell hole of state medicine is a complete myth.

In fact one of the great outcomes of having the best of both worlds is that if the NHS cant provide the required treatment within the mandatory time limits, they will get a private clinic to provide treatment, with the NHS picking up the bill. This tends to be for non life threatening conditions only, because if you have such a serious condition you jump to the top of the queue so to speak and will be seen and treated as soon as necessary.

I don't see why America cant have such a system..the only thing stopping it are vested interests in big business.

So I'm assuming all the good care givers are in the private sector. And who sets the distinction of "mandatory time limit" and "required treatment"? Doctor, patient or NHS? Can the private care givers set their costs? I highly doubt it if the government is picking up the tab, so not sure how it's private.

If you feel like the care is not able to be provided soon enough, can you just go to a private clinic or do you need to get someone to sign off on that?

US system is not great but the socialized doesnt sound much better.

 

[travisbickle]

This shit still baffles me.

Santorum said it himself:

"Fact is, we need companies to have incentives to make drugs. If they don’t have incentives, they won’t make those drugs. We either believe in markets or we don’t.”

If we don't let companies make profits from ill/terminally ill/dying men, women and children they're not going to make any drugs, fact. Do you believe in the markets?

So I'm assuming all the good care givers are in the private sector.

Why do you assume this?

 

[Diprosalic]

I just paid $40 for a nasal allergy spray that will only last me 2-3 weeks..and that's AFTER my prescription insurance. Fuck U.S Healthcare.

i used thousands of dollar of well Diprosalic for free. fuck yeah.

 

[PumpkinPie]

THIS! The NHS saved my mums life from cancer. And the same for my Nan who has sadly since passed on.

The NHS needs work, some things are not right with it but it really is a great thing.

Agreed. The NHS also do a yearly prescription charge, which means that you can pay £110 and get as many things as you like in a year. It's good for me as I need to take all kinds of potions.

 

[Crazylegs]

All of the "YAY CANADA!" people are neglecting to mention that, while not having to pay for MRIs or visits to specialists or other such procedures, there's a very real risk of dying of old age while on the waiting list.

Seriously, it can take forever. Forever. No one ever seems to mention that part!

This is true, but depends on where you live (and even who your doctor is). I live in SW Ontario and the wait for non-emergency MRIs can be a few months. But if I want to travel a few hours north, the wait can be, like, a week.

The Canada comparison here is complicated. Our healthcare system is heavily subsidized by taxes, so that - in combination with government-set pricing - drives down the out-of-pocket expenses. And, of course, there is much angst over whether our tax system can adequately support healthcare and whether our healthcare system can adequately support the taxpayers - especially as the Boomer demographic ages and puts stress on the system.

As for the out-of-pocket expenses in Canada... again, this depends on which province you live in. Here in Ontario, we pay for anything dentistry-related. We also pay for optometrist (OHIP pays for a checkup every 2 years), RMT, chiro, drugs, etc. etc. There is a lot that OHIP does not pay for, so we either pick up the costs ourselves or we have employer health plans.

Something I've always wondered about is the cost of innovation. In the U.S. the costs are higher for healthcare, of course. But, if I have the money, I can get access to just about anything I need. Example - I can cross the border into the U.S. and get an MRI with just a few days notice (not possible in Canada). Because there are profits to be made in the U.S., I think this drives more innovation and a larger supply of available services. If you need to see a Specialist, you can probably arrange that quickly.

In Canada, it always feels like there is never enough services to go around. MRIs take forever, some surgery waiting lists are very long, you can wait months to see a Specialist, etc. etc.

Somehow, the better answer needs to strike a balance between the 2 systems. Some in Canada call that the dreaded 2-tier health system (which we already have to some degree).

 

[MaddenNFL64]

We all know our system in the U.S sucks, the question is, when will it change?

Single payer universal healthcare. Seems like the right call, but it's so hard to do in our country. So many damn people who don't get it.

It's gonna happen one day right? I mean, it seem inevitable, but it's sure taking its sweet time.

 

[Open Source]

Santorum said it himself:

"Fact is, we need companies to have incentives to make drugs. If they don’t have incentives, they won’t make those drugs. We either believe in markets or we don’t.”

If we don't let companies make profits from ill/terminally ill/dying men, women and children they're not going to make any drugs, fact. Do you believe in the markets?

Could help explain why over 60% of new drugs are developed in the US. In other words, we have higher prices because we're subsidizing innovation for the rest of the world. We're also subsidizing supply, because other countries implement price controls. Great for them, of course, but it means prices here have to go up to maintain the same revenue and thus the same R&D spending.

You see this in the lack of new antibiotics being developed. We desperately need them, as resistant strains have begun to proliferate. Problem is, there's no money, here or globally, in antibiotics.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

So I'm assuming all the good care givers are in the private sector. And who sets the distinction of "mandatory time limit" and "required treatment"? Doctor, patient or NHS? Can the private care givers set their costs? I highly doubt it if the government is picking up the tab, so not sure how it's private.

If you feel like the care is not able to be provided soon enough, can you just go to a private clinic or do you need to get someone to sign off on that?

US system is not great but the socialized doesnt sound much better.

Sigh...you just don't get it do you, and TBH i doubt you ever will, oh well your loss.

 

[JGS]

Did you take an arrow to the knee? And $1000 for an MRI? Goddamn. I'm glad I live in such a godless communist shithole as Norway.

God has nothigng to do with it. He has a crappy healthcare plan (Not really, just a high deductible one). My one MRI ever done was 50 bucks. For some reason MRI's are the health standard when discussing costs. The travesty is that they would charge an uninsured person more money than the insurance company.

I wonder why salary isn't discussed as much since it takes up a huge chunk of the price and the US is assumed to pay more for services in the scant few locations where it's even mentioned in comparison to other nations. Is it because ther countries do tend to pay the same or more?

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

We all know our system in the U.S sucks, the question is, when will it change?

Single payer universal healthcare. Seems like the right call, but it's so hard to do in our country. So many damn people who don't get it.

It's gonna happen one day right? I mean, it seem inevitable, but it's sure taking its sweet time.

That's a good question, and there's already enough politics in the system here in the US. Wonder what the Supreme Court will say in June?

 

[frankie_baby]

Could help explain why over 60% of new drugs are developed in the US. In other words, we have higher prices because we're subsidizing innovation for the rest of the world. We're also subsidizing supply, because other countries implement price controls. Great for them, of course, but it means prices here have to go up to maintain the same revenue and thus the same R&D spending.

You see this in the lack of new antibiotics being developed. We desperately need them, as resistant strains have begun to proliferate. Problem is, there's no money, here or globally, in antibiotics.

actually its not that there's no money in antibiotics its just that there is more money in "lifestyle" drugs so thats where the drug companies put their research money, which is why medical research and pharmacuticals should probably also be socialised

 

[Combichristoffersen]

God has nothigng to do with it. He has a crappy healthcare plan (Not really, just a high deductible one). My one MRI ever done was 50 bucks. For some reason MRI's are the health standard when discussing costs. The travesty is that they would charge an uninsured person more money than the insurance company.

Obviously God has nothing to do with it, I was joking about the perception some Americans have of Europe (and Scandinavia in particular) as a communist shithole that hates religion, democracy and freedom

 

[Bleepey]

So I'm assuming all the good care givers are in the private sector. And who sets the distinction of "mandatory time limit" and "required treatment"? Doctor, patient or NHS? Can the private care givers set their costs? I highly doubt it if the government is picking up the tab, so not sure how it's private.

If you feel like the care is not able to be provided soon enough, can you just go to a private clinic or do you need to get someone to sign off on that?

US system is not great but the socialized doesnt sound much better.

1) No often the private sector uses the same NHS doctors and hospitals
2) governemtn policy. If someone hs been waiting x amount of time for elective surgery and it has taken too long they can go private courtesy of the NHS i think
3)Required treatment is determinded by the doctor and or NICE(drug and treatment rationing body)
4) The private sector can set its prices and they area llowed to discriminate. so if you have a disease like NHS that's a preexisitng condition they won't cover.
5) I think the private sector picking up the tab is in rare cases so they can set their prices sky high,. it will just mean no one will subscribe to it, they can just go on the NH which covers about 90% of the healthcare needs
6) You can go private at your discretion. GPs see private and NHS patients, there are solely private clinics. Hell one of the most notable streets in the world for private medical practice is found in London
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley_Street

Could help explain why over 60% of new drugs are developed in the US. In other words, we have higher prices because we're subsidizing innovation for the rest of the world. We're also subsidizing supply, because other countries implement price controls. Great for them, of course, but it means prices here have to go up to maintain the same revenue and thus the same R&D spending.

You see this in the lack of new antibiotics being developed. We desperately need them, as resistant strains have begun to proliferate. Problem is, there's no money, here or globally, in antibiotics.

You have high prices because your prices are set by the invisible hand and cos your government refuses to flex its muscles. You waste a shit tonne on advertising, administration and other areas. I spent too much time on this post but when ready i will be more than happy to source and rebut everything you say.

 

[OneFiftyOne]

How do the "free market makes everything cheaper and better" types explain the US healthcare system and it's immense cost and waste?

Where's the 'free market'? Where's the freedom?

I don't see a free market in this country, but a incomprehensibly huge, bloated, and corrupt political complex. The ones who pay for it sure aren't the ones who get the benefits of it.

 

[Phonomezer]

It's crazy how freeing it feels to not have to worry about medical stuff. There's been so many times where I've gotten a crazy amount of tests done and it was all great and free and it's just a burden I'm glad I don't ever have to worry about.

Taxes aint no shiteee.

Yep. Something I don't have to worry about where I live too. I hobbled out of the hospital last year with an armful full of free shit and drugs from the hospital after fucking up my leg. No bill. Felt good.

 

[el retorno]

Question how do health systems work in Europe for students studying there?

I might be studying in France, Germany or the UK as a graduate student. If I have a job and pay taxes (depending if that's allowed on my visa) do I get acess to a cheaper system or do I have to have private?

I studied in spain a few years back but I couldn't work and had to have private insurance.

Also if I were to transition to a work visa how would that work?

I'm playin to studying and maybe work in Europe (not fleeing the US BTW) and was just wondering.

That's a good question, and there's already enough politics in the system here in the US. Wonder what the Supreme Court will say in June?

It's not looking good.

 

[Nemo]

Had a free MRI last week, on my request, when it wasn't necessary. Just wanted one for memoralia

 

[Joni]

All of the "YAY CANADA!" people are neglecting to mention that, while not having to pay for MRIs or visits to specialists or other such procedures, there's a very real risk of dying of old age while on the waiting list.

In Belgium the wait is about 1 week if it is not urgent. With urgent procedures you go immediately. I did once have to wait a full two weeks for a completely non-urgent visit to a specialist. I could have died.

 

[Bleepey]

Question how do health systems work in Europe for students studying there?

I might be studying in France, Germany or the UK as a graduate student. If I have a job and pay taxes (depending if that's allowed on my visa) do I get acess to a cheaper system or do I have to have private?

I studied in spain a few years back but I couldn't work and had to have private insurance.

Also if I were to transition to a work visa how would that work?

I'm playin to studying and maybe work in Europe (not fleeing the US BTW) and was just wondering.


It's not looking good.

You'll be covered by the NHS if you are a student.

 

[Huff]

Not that it justifies the prices, but many american's bring some of it on themselves when dealing with medications and prescriptions.

People will refuse to use a generic med when a brand name is available. It's baffling. TV advertisements probably contribute to this attitude. Majority of the time, they are the exact same drug, and using generics can save big money.

 

[Little Old Man]

THIS! The NHS saved my mums life from cancer. And the same for my Nan who has sadly since passed on.

The NHS needs work, some things are not right with it but it really is a great thing.

It should be pointed out to non UK residents of this forum that we in the UK do have a choice when it comes to healthcare, that is, there is a fully functioning private health industry for you to opt into if you have the money, or provided by an employer.

The idea that we live in a take it or leave it, socialist hell hole of state medicine is a complete myth.

In fact one of the great outcomes of having the best of both worlds is that if the NHS cant provide the required treatment within the mandatory time limits, they will get a private clinic to provide treatment, with the NHS picking up the bill. This tends to be for non life threatening conditions only, because if you have such a serious condition you jump to the top of the queue so to speak and will be seen and treated as soon as necessary.

I don't see why America cant have such a system..the only thing stopping it are vested interests in big business.

Both sum up the NHS very well. Its a setup which does need continuous change as it is a country wide system which is itself constantly changing due to the ever evolving nature of medicine. It isn't perfect, but it fits most of the criteria you would want from an ideal health system (most of all free at the point of delivery, total coverage, high funding levels, some private sector involvement (though I don't think the latest reforms are the answer)).

It has saved my life very recently and of many of my family, and continues to provide me with first class support and medicines (Crohn's GAF represent!). I can't even begin to contemplate how much my treatment has and continues to cost. Plus, due to other circumstances, if what had happened to me occurred in the US, we would have had no health cover.

Speaking of which, we should have a OT thread on Crohn's!

 

[ronito]

Not that it justifies the prices, but many american's bring some of it on themselves when dealing with medications and prescriptions.

People will refuse to use a generic med when a brand name is available. It's baffling. TV advertisements probably contribute to this attitude. Majority of the time, they are the exact same drug, and using generics can save big money.

I don't get that.

But also sometimes you just aren't told. I remember once I went to pick up a perscription and the pharmacist was like "We were out of this so we gave you the generic from." I was like "WTF?! I've been having this filled here for a YEAR and you tell me NOW that there's a generic form?!!" I was livid.

 

[Huff]

I don't get that.

But also sometimes you just aren't told. I remember once I went to pick up a perscription and the pharmacist was like "We were out of this so we gave you the generic from." I was like "WTF?! I've been having this filled here for a YEAR and you tell me NOW that there's a generic form?!!" I was livid.

There is a negative association that comes with the term generic that comes from word of mouth, advertisements, and doctors being wined and dined by pharm reps.

Another thing I've learned is that many times pts will come into a doctors office and demand a certain med (probably because they assumed they had a condition based on TV/internet) and doctors will just write a prescription. Easy way to please a patient and keep business even without much of a diagnostic process and determination of whether the pt needs that med. Because the pt "knows" they have a problems, they'll just go to another doctor to get the script if this doctor doesn't give them one.

Pharmacists can try to inform pts but having someone willing to listen is not a common trait.

People are also unwilling to change prescriptions to a generic if they've been on a med for a while, because hey it works and why mess with a good thing. I guess thats their choice if they want to pay a premium.

 

[AgentP]

As an American with good medical insurance I'm embarrassed by our system. It rewards emergency care, everything is tied to our jobs making career changes potentially dangerous and catastrophic stuff can ruin families in a heartbeat. We nationalize so many things that we find important, but our basic health is controlled by people with profit in mind, not health. Sad.