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[jgkspsx]

God this is a dumb thread. But...

is the DS screen pressure sensitive? all those pics look like B&W. Even a bottom of the barrel graphics tablet has 256 lvls of pressure sensitivty these days.

You ever tried to write on a bottom-of-the-barrel graphics tablet with your finger? What you'll notice if you do is that graphics tablets aren't touch- or pressure-sensitive. The "pressure sensitivity" is measured by the pressure exerted on the "lead" in the stylus, which -- unlike for PDAs or the DS, which both use plastic rods -- is stuffed full of electronics.

The DS's touch screen is sufficiently sensitive and not really any different from any PDA screen I've used recently. There are developers out there who don't know how to use it (Hey there Mitchell!), and developers who (more or less) do (iNiS, Namco, Konami, etc.), but that's the developer, not the system. The touchscreen is just about the only piece of technology in the DS (OK, and the battery/power management and the wireless) that is unimpeachably modern. So, yeah.

Just an observation, but it sure is a shame that all these PSP emulator programmers seem to be ditching their work after the first semi-halfway-playable version is out. Compatibility for the two most essential ones (NES and Genesis) is dire. The majority of the ones out there are totally half-assed "I wuz first" stuff like the abysmal Lynx emu and the OK but totally unconfigurable and tiny MS/GG emu. I wish these people would publish their code so once their egos are sufficiently stroked and they drop out, more reliable, careful people could finish the jobs. Yep.

 

[jarrod]

sorry but im still waiting for the ds to make games lik tobal n2,vagrant history,gran turismo i dont see the ds as a improved psone

Well... it did take PSone 3.5 years to start producing games on that level. Side by side with comparable launch fodder like Ridge Racer, Toshinden or King's Field, stuff like Mario 64 DS or Feel the Magic look absolutely stunning.

 

[borghe]

Last check, there were like 10 DS games with a gamerankings over 80% and 9 PSP games.

13 DS vs. 9 PSP (games with 5 ratings or more)

another way to look at it is that 9/39 (23%) PSP games are over 80% while 13/49 DS games (26%) are over 80%.

 

[GitarooMan]

13 DS vs. 9 PSP (games with 5 ratings or more)

another way to look at it is that 9/39 (23%) PSP games are over 80% while 13/49 DS games (26%) are over 80%.

Did you count the three Nintendogs as one or three? Just curious, cause I got counted them as one, the DS count may be 11 now I don't know. The point is still valid I think

 

[Flo_Evans]

God this is a dumb thread. But...


You ever tried to write on a bottom-of-the-barrel graphics tablet with your finger? What you'll notice if you do is that graphics tablets aren't touch- or pressure-sensitive. The "pressure sensitivity" is measured by the pressure exerted on the "lead" in the stylus, which -- unlike for PDAs or the DS, which both use plastic rods -- is stuffed full of electronics.

The DS's touch screen is sufficiently sensitive and not really any different from any PDA screen I've used recently. There are developers out there who don't know how to use it (Hey there Mitchell!), and developers who (more or less) do (iNiS, Namco, Konami, etc.), but that's the developer, not the system. The touchscreen is just about the only piece of technology in the DS (OK, and the battery/power management and the wireless) that is unimpeachably modern. So, yeah.

Just an observation, but it sure is a shame that all these PSP emulator programmers seem to be ditching their work after the first semi-halfway-playable version is out. Compatibility for the two most essential ones (NES and Genesis) is dire. The majority of the ones out there are totally half-assed "I wuz first" stuff like the abysmal Lynx emu and the OK but totally unconfigurable and tiny MS/GG emu. I wish these people would publish their code so once their egos are sufficiently stroked and they drop out, more reliable, careful people could finish the jobs. Yep.

bah! I just looked at mine, you are right. This brings into question though, why didn't nintendo include a pressure sensitive pen? The DS already has wireless built in to comunicate with it, and it could be charged by inserting it into the slot. The additional gameplay this could add should be obvious. I guess they figured kids would be stabing thier DSs and breaking them or something.

 

[borghe]

you are correct. I counted them as three.

damn it. :lol

 

[Taichu]

http://pcworld.about.com/news/May122004id116109.htm

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

Well... it did take PSone 3.5 years to start producing games on that level. Side by side with comparable launch fodder like Ridge Racer, Toshinden or King's Field, stuff like Mario 64 DS or Feel the Magic look absolutely stunning.

Just received.. spongebob voor NDS.

Looks pretty good, even for a mediocore product like spongebob.
btw, did you see pics of the square-enix game mario 3 vs 3 basketball for NDS?

 

[Drinky Crow]

wtf is "refreshing". were y'all really THAT bored with gaming?

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

wtf is "refreshing". were y'all really THAT bored with gaming?

I was.. been there, done that feeling... now it's gone. I got myself a fine NDS with some fun games. You should try it once!

 

[jgkspsx]

This brings into question though, why didn't nintendo include a pressure sensitive pen? The DS already has wireless built in to comunicate with it, and it could be charged by inserting it into the slot. The additional gameplay this could add should be obvious. I guess they figured kids would be stabing thier DSs and breaking them or something.

I should note that you can actually calculate the pressure exerted on the touchscreen the DS uses. It's not 256 levels of precision nor is it accurate (nor is it a good idea to press hard enough!) but you can do it.

The reason Nintendo didn't do that -- the reason no PDA or tablet PC has a pressure-sensitive pen -- is that the technologies are different. Graphics tablet technology is very likely incompatible with current LCD technology -- the LCD (and backlight) would have to be between the sensors/power grid and the stylus after all. The technology used in graphics tablets is also rather expensive. (My Wacom cost $300.)

Also, the DS would be twice as thick as it is

All things considered, the DS touch screen is fairly unobjectionable, n'est-ce pas? HTH!

 

[Acosta]

Well, if you want an opinion, DS is not an attractive piece of hardware, no matter how much do you like its games.

It´s not about specs of functionality, that type of mags doen´t cover DS because is not a sexy piece of hardware, so they find uninteresting to speak about it (I know it first hand).

An Ipod, a VAIO or a PSP are sexy, DS is not.

It´s only about the aspect. I don´t get why are you speaking (again) about games and touch screens.

 

[xavean1]

wtf is "refreshing". were y'all really THAT bored with gaming?

THAT bored? Do you mean, bored enough to try something new? Yes.

 

[terrene]

Paladin for the win!

Not really.

Ever used a Tablet PC? Not the first gen ones from a couple years back, like, one made this year? You don't even have to touch the screen with the stylus for the cursor to follow it, and when you do, the fucking computer knows where you are.

Touching anything smaller than a unit in Advance Wars is pretty sketchy business on a DS. Sorry.

 

[borghe]

wtf is "refreshing". were y'all really THAT bored with gaming?

bingo.

how many times can you play GTA? How many times can you play 3D Madden? And yes before you can ask, how many times can you play a Nintendo 3D platformer? When you've been playing games since well before flipping the score in megamania on the Atari 2600, after over 25 years of gaming you really hit a been there done that brick wall.

Atari 2600 brought video games to the home. NES brought the early arcade experience to the home. 16 bit brought the modern arcade experience. 32-bit ushered in 3D gaming. Where have we gone since then? Since the introduction of 3D as the primary mode of graphics in video games we've pretty much stagnated. Sure we've seen a few new gameplay designs or new takes on old gameplay types, but for (soon to be) three generations video gaming has hit the ultimate rut. Racing games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. Football games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. FPS games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. If even only 5 different Rev/DS games come out in any given year, those will be the 5 guaranteed to get my dollars, because those will likely be the 5 where I am not using the same controller from the last 3 gens doing the same or simmilar type of gameplay from the last three gens. Modern day games were fun and fresh when they first premiered 10 years ago. :\

 

[xavean1]

In what case? I've never had any problems with the thing not being accurate enough. Give a game as an example. Certainly not AWS?

 

[jgkspsx]

Ever used a Tablet PC? Not the first gen ones from a couple years back, like, one made this year? You don't even have to touch the screen with the stylus for the cursor to follow it, and when you do, the fucking computer knows where you are.

I haven't used any tablets with an active stylus, no. Cool, thanks for the tip.

Oh dear, Wikipedia says the magnetic position digitizers aren't quite as accurate as traditional touchscreens since the electronics in between cause interference.

Many tablet PCs use a Wacom digitizer, which delivers pen-position input to the computer at a fast rate. Tablets with these digitizers project a small magnetic field above the screen that interacts with electronics in the tablet's stylus. The user therefore is able to rest their hand on the screen without affecting the image or mouse pointer; only movement of the stylus affects the mouse pointer. However, due to interference from the electronics within a tablet PC, virtually every model of tablet PC suffers from "jitter." Jitter makes it impossible to accomplish two tasks: slowly draw long, straight lines and more importantly, write small characters on the screen. UC Logic and Finepoint make similar digitizers.

Ah well. I suppose the tradeoff of being able to rest your hand on the screen while writing is worth it.

 

[SaucerEyedMurder]

Techies like the PSP because they like fixing things and the PSP's shoddy quality promises a veritable feast of fix-it opportunities.

They also thoroughly enjoy overpaying so paying $250 for a poorly built portable Dreamcast Plus that's incapble of running a nice looking 3D game is like a dream come true.

 

[Triumph]

Techies like the PSP because they like fixing things and the PSP's shoddy quality promises a veritable feast of fix-it opportunities.

They also thoroughly enjoy overpaying so paying $250 for a poorly built portable Dreamcast Plus that's incapble of running a nice looking 3D game is like a dream come true.

Did you cry when the N64 lost out to the PSX?

 

[GitarooMan]

Sure we've seen a few new gameplay designs or new takes on old gameplay types, but for (soon to be) three generations video gaming has hit the ultimate rut.

I don't get why all of a sudden games are stagnant. IMO, the PS2/XBox/GC has a fantastic variety of games. It's like saying I'm sick of movies because every movie is the same or I'm sick of music because all music is based on old music. You make an argument that NES/SNES were somehow different but SNES/Genesis era were very much the same games as NES with better graphics. To me control has pretty much been the same too back to the NES (with some advancements like analog), it's advancement in graphics and gameplay that have driven the industry. To me, HD gaming is very exciting. I guess my point is I don't see how these last gens are any less innovative then previous ones...

I'm still waiting for something to come along and show me why gaming needs a change.

This is sort of my point as well..I'm surprised many on this board seem so jaded about gaming, to me the amount of quality games has never been higher...

 

[SaucerEyedMurder]

Did you cry when the N64 lost out to the PSX?

I skipped the last console gen cuz the graphics were atrocious. And isn't using Thompson's alias a bit cliche at this point in time? Oh well, at least you didn't use Neo.

 

[Flo_Evans]

bingo.

how many times can you play GTA? How many times can you play 3D Madden? And yes before you can ask, how many times can you play a Nintendo 3D platformer? When you've been playing games since well before flipping the score in megamania on the Atari 2600, after over 25 years of gaming you really hit a been there done that brick wall.

Atari 2600 brought video games to the home. NES brought the early arcade experience to the home. 16 bit brought the modern arcade experience. 32-bit ushered in 3D gaming. Where have we gone since then? Since the introduction of 3D as the primary mode of graphics in video games we've pretty much stagnated. Sure we've seen a few new gameplay designs or new takes on old gameplay types, but for (soon to be) three generations video gaming has hit the ultimate rut. Racing games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. Football games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. FPS games with prettier graphics and the same gameplay and controls. If even only 5 different Rev/DS games come out in any given year, those will be the 5 guaranteed to get my dollars, because those will likely be the 5 where I am not using the same controller from the last 3 gens doing the same or simmilar type of gameplay from the last three gens. Modern day games were fun and fresh when they first premiered 10 years ago. :\

you know people would take you alot more serouisly if your post was true at all.

Racing games control the same as the 32 bit era? DFP says hello. HL2 is the same FPS as doom with prettier gfx? could of fooled me. Football games? who even cares about football games?

I mean yeah there is alot of trash out there, but that has always been the case. Nostalgia seems to wipe out all the clones and crappy liscened games of yesteryear. You seem to genuinly want new experiences, but tell me does controlling mario64 with a new input device make it a new experience? Not to discount the original games on the DS, but some of you are acting like a new input device suddenly makes the games original and more fun. I worry that the rev will be more of the same... 'oh look! its super mario brothers! but I make mario jump by waving the controller instead of pushing a button! OMG TEH INOVATION! THIS IS TOTAL LEIK REFREASHMENT!"

???

anyway enough derailment, tech mags don't cover the DS because it is not new tech. duh.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A serious and non-trolling response to this thread's initial post:

Becuase those editors always look at things when they are new, and whent the DS first came out, its offereings were pretty lame.

The DS's weak launch put a dent in it's chances of being Gadget of the Moment. But so what?



EDIT: Now that I've read the whole thread, I expect this post to be ignored, since it doesn't further or hinder the agenda of fanboys of any system.

 

[Triumph]

I skipped the last console gen cuz the graphics were atrocious. And isn't using Thompson's alias a bit cliche at this point in time? Oh well, at least you didn't use Neo.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

And I've been Raoul Duke on this forum since before the good Dr. offed himself.

 

[kaching]

I don't understand what the games debate has to do with the question. Or touch sceen sensitivity either.

It's just not that interesting/expandable from a tech perspective unless you're a game maker. I'm not sure it's as interesting as some make it out to be from that perspective either, but if it keeps up the 2D gba train, yay!

Never has it felt so right to invoke someone's tag as it does now: FLAWLESS VICTOLY!

 

[Squeak]

Because the DS hardware is painfully archaic and about as interesting as banging two rocks together to a fan of technology?

I own 9 PSP games and 3 DS games, so the DS is pretty much a wash for decent gaming, too. How you fruits can start flipping your bulging babyfat little wrists over crap like Animal Crossing totally blows my mind. Have you considered asking your doctor for manual assistance in forcing your (presumed) testicles to descend?

Oh you so big and manly drinky! You own psp, the ultimate potency enhancer since ground rino horn!

People who can't see the obvious aesthetic qualities in AC and the fun potential, are IMO just plain and simple stupid.
Even if you don't dig the style or the gameplay, you have to admit it is VERY polished in the visuals department and the potential of an online communication game it vast to say the least.

 

[jgkspsx]

EDIT: Now that I've read the whole thread, I expect this post to be ignored, since it doesn't further or hinder the agenda of fanboys of any system.

Of course it will! This is GAF!

 

[the year 20XX]

This thread turned out well. The original question was kind of interesting, but was unfortunately a perfect means to go into CONSOLE WAR!!!!!!

huh, good god, y'all

 

[shuri]

 

[APF]

A serious and non-trolling response to this thread's initial post:

Becuase those editors always look at things when they are new, and whent the DS first came out, its offereings were pretty lame.

The DS's weak launch put a dent in it's chances of being Gadget of the Moment. But so what?

Since we're talking about tech journalists/gadget freaks as opposed to people focused on games, I think it's more because neither the DS' feature set (dual screens, touch screen, microphone) or its graphical capabilities represent new or cutting-edge technology (wireless capability was the only "new" integrated tech, but where is the online service? where is downloadable content, software updates, or web browsers, etc? I'd kill for a DS-based RSS reader, or at least a web-based aggregator optimized for the DS, but you can't even online Pictochat). The focus on the time was on how bizarre and gimmicky the two screens were, and how likely it was that the DS would go the way of the Virtual Boy. In contrast the PSP is a beautiful, high-end piece of tech that you can watch movies with and play games with "this gen"-level graphics on. These are people interested in the technology.

 

[Beowvlf]

What I don't understand is why some Nintendo fans believe the DS is "sooooo innovative"; for a system that supposedly boasts an all-new, super unique control scheme, it's pretty interesting that, if one disregarded the dual screens, 90% of the games could easily be ported over to the PSP with a slight tweak to the controls.

Thus IMO the two screens are more 'integral' to the individuality of the DS, and I don't what you guys think, but we've STILL yet to see a developer make use of them for more than anything but mere convenience.

And IMO, the PSP's current lineup is much better than the DS', but the DS undoubtedly has a more diverse upcoming lineup. Hopefully Sony will make some more announcements through to the end of the year to spice up this handheld battle even more.

 

[the year 20XX]

So, if you changed the screen layout, you could play DS games on the PSP if you changed the controls?

On an anti-current-DS-development note, I'm already tired of map screens. I mean, sure, Castlevania can have them, but Kirby didn't really need to.

 

[JavyOO7]

I didn't buy a DS. I traded a GeForce FX 5200 PCI card for it. I got ripped off.

I'll probably ditch it after I finish Castlevania, unless someone reassures me that New Super Mario Brothers won't suck. I don't get the boner some of you do for non-games like Animal Crossing and canned puppy animations, so a future where me and the DS spend any quality time together looks pretty dim.

Atleast try Ouendan before you trade it away again.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I did, and I hated it. Wacky jappy content largely offends me, especially Japanese music/rhythm games. When the soundtrack wasn't raping my eardrums, the stupid onscreen (ZOMG SCHOOLYARD PUNKS ACTING ZANY!) antics were raping my Western sense of humor, and the high-speed touchscreen antics required for later levels were raping my carpal tunnel syndrome.

If you simply aren't amused by it; and if you don't like any rhythm game not titled Frequency or Amplitude; and ESPECIALLY if you hate J-rock/J-pop, Ouendan is a huge fucking wash. The otaku kooketeers around here can keep it.

 

[Apenheul]

Exactly who are meant by 'techies'? I think most lowlevel programmers (lowlevel doesn't mean shitty, it means you are working very close to the hardware) prefer DS, most highlevel programmers (highlevel doesn't mean cool, it means you have more abstraction (lib/api)) choose PSP. Designers choose DS, critics choose PSP. Nbots choose DS, Sony fanboys choose PSP. Xbox fanboys wander why anyone cares

 

[mattiewheels]

Thus IMO the two screens are more 'integral' to the individuality of the DS, and I don't what you guys think, but we've STILL yet to see a developer make use of them for more than anything but mere convenience.

i'm still trying to figure out if there's a killer app way to use that second screen. is there? any ideas folks? cause i'm thinking most games are just gonna use it to put a pretty picture on while i'm playing whatever on the bottom screen.

 

[monkeyrun]

i'm still trying to figure out if there's a killer app way to use that second screen. is there? any ideas folks? cause i'm thinking most games are just gonna use it to put a pretty picture on while i'm playing whatever on the bottom screen.

did you play any DS games ever ?

 

[CO_Andy]

Lordy, lord. My thread has turned into a war zone... STORM THE FRONT!

The DS has come a long way from the doom & gloom everyone speculated.

 

[mattiewheels]

yeah. have you played one that made perfect use of the top screen? what game?

i'm just interested in hearing better ideas than what i've seen implemented so far. i wish developers weren't so lazy.

 

[koam]

I didn't buy a DS. I traded a GeForce FX 5200 PCI card for it. I got ripped off.

I'll probably ditch it after I finish Castlevania, unless someone reassures me that New Super Mario Brothers won't suck. I don't get the boner some of you do for non-games like Animal Crossing and canned puppy animations, so a future where me and the DS spend any quality time together looks pretty dim.

So I guess that's one game more than the PSP

 

[CO_Andy]

Exactly who are meant by 'techies'?

I guess the tech enthusiasts in these non-gaming magazines.

 

[Comfort_Eagle]

Such a hard question. Damn this is a hard question.....OR NOT

 

[Drensch]

Drohne, check.
Drinky, check.
Raoul, check.
Terrene, check.

Do you guys get a talking points fax when a Nintendo thread is posted? Who is the nintentroll's Karl Rove?

 

[DDayton]

Do you guys get a talking points fax when a Nintendo thread is posted? Who is the nintentroll's Karl Rove?

Tommy Tallerico?

Or maybe it's that guy down the street... the one wearing a cardboard box for a hat.

 

[Harmonica]

Man this thread has sickened me at some points. Look at my post history and you'll see I obviously am a fan of the DS, and have a bias towards it, but I own a PSP as well, and some of this tech shit against the DS is fucking ridiculous. I can't imagine anyone truly being able to call the DS a piece of shit with Meteos, Castlevania, Advance Wars, or Kirby Canvas Curse in it. I've had more fun on my DS this year than on any other system, and I happen to be a graphics whore.



The DS is just so goddamned fun.

 

[Spastic Colon]

Man this thread has sickened me at some points. Look at my post history and you'll see I obviously am a fan of the DS, and have a bias towards it, but I own a PSP as well, and some of this tech shit against the DS is fucking ridiculous. I can't imagine anyone truly being able to call the DS a piece of shit with Meteos, Castlevania, Advance Wars, or Kirby Canvas Curse in it. I've had more fun on my DS this year than on any other system, and I happen to be a graphics whore.



The DS is just so goddamned fun.

I hate to see what happens if you see a picture of a child with its arm hacked-off if this thread has sickened you at some points.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Really? Is Advance Wars DS really that much more fundamentally fun than Advance Wars 1&2 on the GBA? Is DoS just that more fundamentally fun than Aria of Sorrow? Canvas Curse moreso than Magic Mirror? Meteos moreso than, well, every other addictive puzzle game out there with standard controls, like Lumines or Puzzle Fighter or Magical Drop? Cuz I ain't seein' it.

 

[Spastic Colon]

Really? Is Advance Wars DS really that much more fundamentally fun than Advance Wars 1&2 on the GBA? Is DoS just that more fundamentally fun than Aria of Sorrow? Canvas Curse moreso than Magic Mirror? Meteos moreso than, well, every other addictive puzzle game out there with standard controls, like Lumines or Puzzle Fighter or Magical Drop? Cuz I ain't seein' it.

QFT!

Show me the DS game that would be unplayable or just a pale shadow of itself without the stylus involved.

And if you say Nintendogs.......well, please say Nintendogs actually. :lol

 

[_PsiFire_]

I didn't buy a DS. I traded a GeForce FX 5200 PCI card for it. I got ripped off.

I'll probably ditch it after I finish Castlevania, unless someone reassures me that New Super Mario Brothers won't suck. I don't get the boner some of you do for non-games like Animal Crossing and canned puppy animations, so a future where me and the DS spend any quality time together looks pretty dim.

Yeah, and trade it in for the next Castlevania handheld game...

OHHH YEAH.. That's coming out for the DS as well.. PSP am cry.

 

[Jado]

QFT!

Show me the DS game that would be unplayable or just a pale shadow of itself without the stylus involved.

And if you say Nintendogs.......well, please say Nintendogs actually. :lol

Actually, Meteos. It has standard button controls and it just doesn't work without the stylus. Yea, it is no more addictive than some other puzzle games out there but at least it plays different to begin with. Otherwise people would be calling it a clone of "x" puzzle game. That games like Meteos should not exist because they're merely "different and good" rather than "different and superior to everything else" is just absurd.