BANGS
Banned
It's not that simple, but think about how much less racism there would be today in the West if the left hadn't been talking so much about it. They've really divided people who didn't have a racist bone in their body previously...
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Why did race relations deteriorate so much in the last decade? And how do we fix it?
- Thread starter pramod
- Start date
Social media has made the world way more hostile in my opinion. And that is also one of the main reasons these kind of debates went into such a direction. Social media exposes you do way more extreme views on all spectrum, political sides etc. And these extreme views get widely spread around. It can be just a few people but they are the loudest, the most vile and so these opinions and views are being used by the other side to manipulate other peoples opinion.
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Those darn leftists keep talking about race making it it impossible to ignore our own racism! Heathens!
BANGS just solved racism everyone. Who would've thought that racism and quantum physics are so alike to the point that they only exist when looked at
Edit: Also if all it takes for people to be divided about talking about race then I think its safe to say they were hateful in the first place and just holding it back
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Soltype
Member
America is a nation of immigrants, there's no real fiber weaving everyone together.
BANGS
Banned
No, it's because black people were taught they are victims, becoming resentful to white people. White people were taught they were racist even if they weren't racist, causing resentment to minorities. Neither of them were holding back hate, they were fooled into hating eachother...
If America was truly post racial as some of you think simply having a black President wouldn't have moved the pendulum in either direction no? One could argue that the reactions to Obama simply being President kinda proved that racism was still ever present in America, and that MLK and your civil rights act didn't fix everything.
Vicetrailia
Member
So black people don't experience racism?
Are you telling us a story about how you became racist? Because that's the only way this makes sense.
Holy shit. Far right loony bin talk here. Basically saying it's black people fault if a white person is racist lmao wow. And of course President Obama's fault . trump is only racist cause President Obama caused it.
BANGS
Banned
Most of us experience racism at some point in our lives. That doesn't make our nation racist...
BANGS
Banned
I mean the problem isn’t ‘Hey white boy, (yada yada yada), hey n-word(yada yada yada)’ its stuff at how even today it’s hard to get housing in certain neighborhoods:
https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...ng-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/
How incarceration rates unfairly target the poor and minorities:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...ration-problem-lets-start-at-local-level.html
How with all the talk of wage discrepancy the current leaders of the fight, white woman, actually beat women and MEN of minority groups.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ge-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/
and speaking of jobs, we all know about that one:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/18/16307782/study-racism-jobs
Basically if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a racist duck, lol. The fact that America has tried its best jedi mind trick that after Civil Rights there’s no ‘real’ racism and its just minorities asking for a handout is what brought us today. Similar to how during the Reconstruction period you would be hardpressed to find anyone explicitly admitting racism and that Jim Crow was voluntary and both blacks and whites liked the separation of races, lol
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Do you know anything about race relations in this country before 1964?
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Yeah but prejudice based on skin color for white people sure ain't as bad, as what colored folks go through. Both are wrong sure, but still there's far more racism and prejudice towards people of color in pretty much all strata of common life. Yes there's a lot of black people who are resentful of white people. But I understand why, you know? Is it wrong? Yes. They shouldn't hate. But I understand why they do.
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finowns
Member
I agree we are a nation of immigrants although most of us were born here but the idea that we have 'thin' culture (which is vague), we certainly have culture uniquely American, and no 'real fiber weaving everyone together' (also vague, are we not patriotic enough?) I disagree with.
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Super Mario
Banned
So you think Michael Brown, while attacking the officer, deserved what exactly? A hug?
Everyone seem to had such a big opinion when a man attacks an officer is killed. However, there is far less dialogue when an officer is killed.
People riot out because they've become enraged. Who has fed them the rage? Is it something they picked up on their own, or was it fed to them?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#
3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story.
4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers.
5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops.
Is this the inequality you were speaking of? Is it that the black offenders were more likely to attack the officer? Is it that a black cop is more likely to shoot a black man than a white officer? Is it that more black people kill cops than were killed by cops? We like to post statistics when they disproportionately affect black people, but only when convenient.
TheSadRanger
Banned
This is a complex issue with many angles, I do think there is still hope though. From my own personal experiences I think that is still repairable.
I think that one of the reasons whites still have prejudice towards blacks is because of media portrayal in the local news, which I think also stems police brutality to a certain extent. Local news has a far more reaching impact than I think we realize. For instance, in Dallas a couple years back. There was a news story about black women stealing playstation controllers from Wal-Marts, this segment was given at least a couple of minutes and showed surveillance, etc. For stealing fucking playstation controllers. Yet in the same broadcast there was a story about a young couple where a woman took her fiancee to a Mavs game for his birthday, after the game they were walking outside in Victory Park and were both ran over and killed by a drunk TCU student. IIRC it was some rich white kid and they didn't even show his face and the segment was given barely anytime.
Over the course of time I started to notice this as a reoccurring trend, where if a black person does something wrong like steal playstation controllers. They're made out to be Bonny & Clyde. I think this has such a bigger impact than what we think, because I think that in the mind of someone that is racist, that it reassures theirs thoughts. If that person thinks that black people are bad or dishonest, then seeing the news and how it eschews things to one way confirms those thoughts in their mind.
This changed for a brief period of time during the Ethan Couch incident, but as soon as that blew over it was business as usual. This is only one aspect of the bigger issue of racism but I think it's a crucial one.
I think that one of the reasons whites still have prejudice towards blacks is because of media portrayal in the local news, which I think also stems police brutality to a certain extent. Local news has a far more reaching impact than I think we realize. For instance, in Dallas a couple years back. There was a news story about black women stealing playstation controllers from Wal-Marts, this segment was given at least a couple of minutes and showed surveillance, etc. For stealing fucking playstation controllers. Yet in the same broadcast there was a story about a young couple where a woman took her fiancee to a Mavs game for his birthday, after the game they were walking outside in Victory Park and were both ran over and killed by a drunk TCU student. IIRC it was some rich white kid and they didn't even show his face and the segment was given barely anytime.
Over the course of time I started to notice this as a reoccurring trend, where if a black person does something wrong like steal playstation controllers. They're made out to be Bonny & Clyde. I think this has such a bigger impact than what we think, because I think that in the mind of someone that is racist, that it reassures theirs thoughts. If that person thinks that black people are bad or dishonest, then seeing the news and how it eschews things to one way confirms those thoughts in their mind.
This changed for a brief period of time during the Ethan Couch incident, but as soon as that blew over it was business as usual. This is only one aspect of the bigger issue of racism but I think it's a crucial one.
Super Mario
Banned
Stepping aside from arguing back and forth with people on this subject, there is one line that comes to my mind when it comes to race relations that trumps everything else
I think all people still have to work on this one. Both political spectrums. Although, I do believe the right is closest to judging character. That is one of the biggest reasons I made that jump.
I think all people still have to work on this one. Both political spectrums. Although, I do believe the right is closest to judging character. That is one of the biggest reasons I made that jump.
Soltype
Member
There are too many strong subcultures in the US for it to have a real national identity.We still have people flying flags other than Old Glory.You could say Christianity was a main source of cultrue here, but that has changed drastically.
ipukespiders
Member
And it's not just race relations. We are given countless distractions in our day to day life and how much of it really matters? Cheering for sports teams, buying and consuming products for short term happiness. Needless bullshit.
And there is little we can do about it. Except maybe go build a cabin in the woods. Unplug from the machine.
The problem is that being a cop the idea is "If you feel you're in danger you can shoot someone" which is kind of a cop out (pun unintended, lol) with someone who's unarmed, partially subdued, etc. Like there's inherent danger in the job; I was talking to future LAPD over the holidays and he was saying how they asked him a question during classes where if a five year old has a gun what should they do and whoever deviated from 'pull your gun out, be prepared to shoot him asap' was 'wrong'. But it's like, the job has inherent risks; there's a problem where the rules of engagement for US citizens is less stringent then the rules of engagement in a warfare zone, lol. Cops death are in historic lows:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...illed-2017-hits-nearly-50-year-low/984477001/
But they drill into recruits that they must come home at all costs when...nah, lol. Your job is to serve and protect and that requires putting your life on the line, its literally part of the job description. Shooting a five year old because there's a chance he might shoot you kind of shows how screwed up policing has become where its less about community policing but just enforcing laws and 100% compliance with no focus on de-escalation.
On your points
4)Not sure why this matters? If the perpetrators are also minorities it means that it can't be racist because minorities can't be racist? I mean it's such a thing it even gets made fun in movies, lol
5)On the stats of blacks killing black officers (are we saying officers are right to be more fearful of blacks=higher rates?) Ive got contrary stats:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...likely-to-kill-police/?utm_term=.9d85b6e4efb1
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deadscreensky
Member
Yeah, the myopia by some people here is crazy. If you don't think America had massive problems with race back in the 90s (and the 80s, and 70s, and...) you're just being ignorant.
Here's an especially easy example. It says a lot about you if you think America was hunky dory for minorities 30 years ago. All that means is you were okay with ignoring what was actually happening.
Anyway, it's obvious that Obama's election pushed a lot of racist people into giving up their dog whistles. Tearing off that band-aid was important, but we're a long ways from seeing any real healing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
This is the second time you've used the meme, and the second time the person you replied to
That source is utter trash. Its first point is to act as if white people dying more often than black people from police violence means anything other than "white people are a greater percentage of the population." And look at this text. "more likely to be killed by a black." I mean shit.
Can't you find a better source than that? I mean, the person they're quoting is a person who said this:
"you cannot be an Islamic terrorist unless you're a member of the Muslim faith" as a justification to profile Muslims.
That source is utter trash. Its first point is to act as if white people dying more often than black people from police violence means anything other than "white people are a greater percentage of the population." And look at this text. "more likely to be killed by a black." I mean shit.
Can't you find a better source than that? I mean, the person they're quoting is a person who said this:
"you cannot be an Islamic terrorist unless you're a member of the Muslim faith" as a justification to profile Muslims.
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AquaticSquirrel
Member
I think that MLK quote is a great ideal to strive towards. Unfortunately I don't think America or anywhere else is there yet.
As for the American Right being closest to judging character over race I feel like that is a fairly drastic distortion of reality. I'm not going to assume that you are being dishonest because that is how the forum was in the past. I do in a strange way understand the angle you are trying to come at this from. I think what you are trying to say is that at the moment identity politics has taken center stage in a lot of left to extreme left ideology. So in that respect I can understand if you feel that in comparison the right seems to talk/care less about it.
I think that this kind of thinking is really missing the forest for the trees. I'm not trying to demonize everyone who is right leaning but if you look at both history and now you can see that the right definitely cares a lot about someone's skin colour more than their character. There is a reason that the Republicans/Tea Party are caricatured as racist to the bone and it's not exactly too far from reality.
I mean putting aside the civil war, confederacy/flags, police shootings/treatment of minorities and the southern strategy just to name a few: During Obama's presidency the republican party childishly stonewalled and blocked every initiative he tried to implement mostly because he was a black man that was president. Then of course things like white nationalism is a movement that is associated with the right etc...
I feel like to state what you have is a blatant misreading of both history and current events and I would have to assert that I think it is factually incorrect.
StrategyFan
Member
it's not a new issue
but seeing people react to a black guy in the white house for 8 years is new
politics being a team sport and having one team captain be an openly racist shithole is also relatively new
race relations will magically improve if the right chooses not to align itself with racists for the purposes of political unity. if they can't even start from the premise of treating people equally, they can't really expect to have much credibility about anything
but seeing people react to a black guy in the white house for 8 years is new
politics being a team sport and having one team captain be an openly racist shithole is also relatively new
race relations will magically improve if the right chooses not to align itself with racists for the purposes of political unity. if they can't even start from the premise of treating people equally, they can't really expect to have much credibility about anything
TheSadRanger
Banned
Well I'm not trying to put words into the OP's mouth, I think he's mainly referring to the media portrayal of race relations to a certain extent and every day interactions with other people. The problem, the line is more obfuscated these days which is what's new about it that you were referring to. There's no clear cut "men in white sheets" as an enemy. The white sheets are off and those people are among us. Which can lead to confusion as what to do exactly and how to move forward.
Yet crosses are still being burned in some states, especially in some of southeastern states. Left as a sign of hatred to invoke fear into people. except these people aren't registered as a member of the KKK or anything like that. They might have the hoods on but they take them off and work as accountants, go to PTA meetings.
It's a lot more subversive that makes it more difficult to fix and it usually involves people in power. For instance I'm a white guy and at various work places I have seen institutionalized racism. Not hiring blacks, borderline racist talk in the break room, that sort of thing. I've seen this in companies that have twelve people working for them with about $5 million in yearly revenue to companies with well over 200 employees with $500 million in revenue. I looked around at some of these places wondering "why is everyone else working here white?" It's like they just don't fucking hire black people. Also not too joke, but I think this also becomes apparent when you notice companies that aren't racist in hiring, you'll notice that it seems like every black in person in town works there. Which is partially probably kinda true since there's a lot of companies with racist hiring practices that wouldn't hire them.
It's also rough because as an individual it's hard to call out, especially if your just a bottom level employee. For myself as an individual I wondered "what the hell can I do about this? I'm not in any position of power". It's also tough because people are slick about it, for hiring they can just deny it saying they hire "the best candidates". They keep that shit on the down low. The other issue is I don't think anyone really knows how much this goes on and if it is or isn't as bad as we think.
Sorry for rambling, just kind of my thoughts about some of the issues. With one of the big issues of blacks being denied jobs because of skin color. Which causes such a huge ripple effect.
Race relations didn't get worse so much as more and more non White people are speaking up, and doing so via more channels - channels that make it harder for them to be ignored. Non White people have always been shit on, but the vast majority of White people rarely ever put much thought into it because it virtually never affected them. Now that it's being brought to their attention so many of them are acting like things have gotten worse.
NO!
Things haven't gotten worse!
Y'ALL JUST BEEN FUCKING [WILLFULLY] OBLIVIOUS TO IT ALL THESE YEARS!!!
It can be compared to the #metoo phenomenon, where we're starting to FINALLY see a cultural shift where more and more women are speaking up and taking a stand against the shit that so many of them have been putting up with since.... forever?
NO!
Things haven't gotten worse!
Y'ALL JUST BEEN FUCKING [WILLFULLY] OBLIVIOUS TO IT ALL THESE YEARS!!!
It can be compared to the #metoo phenomenon, where we're starting to FINALLY see a cultural shift where more and more women are speaking up and taking a stand against the shit that so many of them have been putting up with since.... forever?
Reminds me of "Why can't we go back to the days when America was great and coloured people didn't get all uppity because they knew their place?
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Punchpudding
Member
I agree that within the last decade, tensions have been uncomfortably high; but I think inequality in wealth and achievement plays a bigger role than sensational new stories.
I'd be interested to hear thoughts on the achievement gap (graphs grabbed from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States).
Math:
Reading
Doesn't it look like the achievement gap was gradually closing up until the late 80's early 90's? Do you think the US would look different if the gap had been closed (the wealth gap is a different story but related)? Instead, achievement not only stopped increasing, it actually decreased; the gap festered for a few more decades which I think contributes somewhat to the situation today. Any thoughts on why and how?
I'd be interested to hear thoughts on the achievement gap (graphs grabbed from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gap_in_the_United_States).
Math:
Reading
Doesn't it look like the achievement gap was gradually closing up until the late 80's early 90's? Do you think the US would look different if the gap had been closed (the wealth gap is a different story but related)? Instead, achievement not only stopped increasing, it actually decreased; the gap festered for a few more decades which I think contributes somewhat to the situation today. Any thoughts on why and how?
MWS Natural
Member
Is this one of these New-GAF threads? Holy shit...it's like the forum took 10 steps back.
In 2018 will all the facts, studies, evidence that we have available if you don't believe black people suffer disproportionately from systematic racism in America you are either willfully ignorant ignorant at best and racist at worst.
Dude just #alllivesmatter'd racism? This is the 'other side" of discussion that Evilore wanted to badly?
In 2018 will all the facts, studies, evidence that we have available if you don't believe black people suffer disproportionately from systematic racism in America you are either willfully ignorant ignorant at best and racist at worst.
Fnord
Member
America has become more tribal than I have ever seen it. It's not just race, it's pretty much everything. The tenor of discourse in the country has become, "If you're not with me (and with me 100% with no grey areas allowed), you're against me. And not only are you against me, you're basically a sub-human POS that doesn't deserve to breathe the same air as me and the people that agree with me." That attitude feeds on itself. More moderate people get caught up in it and, if they're going to be equated with Nazis or Socialists just because they don't march in lock step with everything that people on the far end of either spectrum hold dear, then they're going to get their backs up and become defensive. Whether it's disagreeing with presidential politics (I noticed that some commenters were asking for citations about this, and I don't have the wherewithal at the moment to take on that excursion, but it definitely existed - if you disagreed with a policy that Obama put forth, the only conceivable reason was that you were a racist) or movies (don't like Ghostbusters or The Last Jedi? Clearly you're a Nazi racist/sexist, etc...), the country seems to be pulling itself apart from by the far extremes. What I'm hoping is that perception isn't reality. That what we're seeing is simply access to social media being covered by the media because it drives ratings and that things aren't actually as bad as they seem. I'm on the fence, though.
finowns
Member
New Ghostbusters is terrible. The old one is still good.. so the new one is bad and unnecessary. Also, new Star Wars is crap. The media is just as tribal you know which side FOX has chosen and same with MSNBC, I don't know how we are going to fix that, they make too much money.
Airola
Member
Things have escalated because of social media.
Buzzwords spread unbelievably fast and to make people recognize you are on the right side of the argument you can just add a couple of hashtags to your tweet and people like you can pat you on your back.
Being in the side of a minority is a commendable act in general. Being in the side of someone who has been kicked down is generally a good thing to do. But in social media you can so easily imply to people that you are a good person by just a short one sentence message added with the current hot hashtag. People like to be seen as a good person. Social media allows to say it fast and easy. If helping a person in need isn't enough, you can boost your goodness by being vehemently against something. Being against something is seen as being for something else. And social media allows fast ways to let everyone know how much against you are something so that it will be absolutely clear that you are a good person.
People on the left side of the issue think they are good. People on the right side of the issue believe they are good. People on the center of the issue believe they are good. When everyone wants to tell everyone else that they are good, and when social media makes it unbelievably easy, what else can happen than people becoming more divisive than ever.
Social media has also been integrated so deep into news media that a bunch of tweets escalate into news and news escalate into tweets and those tweets escalate into more news and those news escalate into more tweets. And then both the tweets and the news are aiming to be morally on the right side. The tweets and the news both try to take a moral stand. And the news try to please the people who tweet. And the tweets try to be taken as seriously as the news. It's a mess.
The problem OP writes about is not necessarily even about race. It's just that race is a thing you can have a loud opinion about.
Buzzwords spread unbelievably fast and to make people recognize you are on the right side of the argument you can just add a couple of hashtags to your tweet and people like you can pat you on your back.
Being in the side of a minority is a commendable act in general. Being in the side of someone who has been kicked down is generally a good thing to do. But in social media you can so easily imply to people that you are a good person by just a short one sentence message added with the current hot hashtag. People like to be seen as a good person. Social media allows to say it fast and easy. If helping a person in need isn't enough, you can boost your goodness by being vehemently against something. Being against something is seen as being for something else. And social media allows fast ways to let everyone know how much against you are something so that it will be absolutely clear that you are a good person.
People on the left side of the issue think they are good. People on the right side of the issue believe they are good. People on the center of the issue believe they are good. When everyone wants to tell everyone else that they are good, and when social media makes it unbelievably easy, what else can happen than people becoming more divisive than ever.
Social media has also been integrated so deep into news media that a bunch of tweets escalate into news and news escalate into tweets and those tweets escalate into more news and those news escalate into more tweets. And then both the tweets and the news are aiming to be morally on the right side. The tweets and the news both try to take a moral stand. And the news try to please the people who tweet. And the tweets try to be taken as seriously as the news. It's a mess.
The problem OP writes about is not necessarily even about race. It's just that race is a thing you can have a loud opinion about.
Fnord
Member
I was watching the news or some clip from the news (don't remember exactly) a few weeks ago and they introduced some story about something with very few details and then immediately went into reading posts on their Twitter feed about the story (which they had previously tweeted about). My eyes rolled so far into the back of my head I could see my brain (and I'm pretty sure it was oozing out of my ears). It's one thing to get eyewitness reaction to a news story. It's another thing entirely to just start "reporting" on the social media postings of random people as though it's news. This will burn itself out at some point, won't it?
Airola
Member
Hopeful it does, afraid it doesn't.
The Fairness Doctrine being reinstated, for one
You need to be living in an alternate reality when elected officials say shit like this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-genetic-susceptible-marijuana-a8157916.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/23/donald-trump-carl-paladino-michelle-obama
http://abc27.com/2016/09/30/west-york-borough-council-calling-for-mayor-to-resign-over-racist-posts/
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TheGraykid
Member
I think that's a really reductive thing to say that ignores both what minorities have thought for decades, and decades of pretty well-documented acts of systematic and individual racism.
Who is teaching black people that they are victims??
Haven’t you seen videos of police brutality, documentation of injustice in the law and prison system, injustice in housing, education, even down to things like being rejected for a job application because of the applicants name.
Black people are treated like shit in America and a lot of other places around the world quite frankly, I don’t think your nonsensical comment about anyone needing to teach them anything makes sense.
Super Mario
Banned
This thread gives you all the proof you need why race relations haven't improved. We still aren't even close to agreeing on anything.
As a (mostly) conservative, people actually believe I didn't like Obama's policies just because he is black. Never mind that I was a strong Obama supporter who voted for him in the past 2 elections. Since I didn't like the way things ended up under him, that unequivocally makes me a racist.
As a (mostly) conservative, people actually believe I didn't like Obama's policies just because he is black. Never mind that I was a strong Obama supporter who voted for him in the past 2 elections. Since I didn't like the way things ended up under him, that unequivocally makes me a racist.
BANGS
Banned
Oh look, a bunch of data that doesn't prove racism at all. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome. "If it walks like a duck", huh? How ironic...
This is America, this is capitalism. The only color anybody really gives a shit about is green. Pretending anything else is a factor is downright disingenuous...
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/
BANGS
Banned
And what data are you using to determine this?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If Green is the only color people cared about, then why did ALL major league sports ban black people from playing in professional sports in America?
BANGS
Banned
Because back in those days most people were racist and didn't want to pay to see games with black people playing. But a very long time ago they saw there was a market for these players based on their skill and for the past many decades black athletes are among the top paid and most represented athletes in this nation.
It's the same reason you don't see many 5' tall jewish guys playing in the NBA, there's no market for that...
Zog
Banned
You need to stop living in the past.
Exactly! Why should America ever care about equality if there’s no money in it? Desegregating schools, etc, no real money in it. Generally Americans are pretty indifferent to the suffering of others that are seen as ‘not their tribe’ as altruistic as they fool themselves into thinking they are. There’s really no motivation not to be racist. Of course you can’t burn crosses, thats bad PR. But ensuring that your people get taken care of first. Like when there’s expose’s that show municipalities fine/tax minorities unfairly, its a relatively easy sell that its a good thing to middle American because they are poor and deserve it because they were too stupid to not be poor (which is what Americans think of the world).
Also that link you sent was...well interesting to say the least. Off the rip even tho it said the contrary if you’re a teen and want to move to the middle class, abort that future baby asap and flush it down the toilet. Teenage pregnancy is a huge signifier for poverty, why would you want it? You can debate if said abortion is murder or not, but to say ‘hey keep it, it will teach ya responsibility and thats how you get out of the ghetto?’ lol. Born again stupidity
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