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[StoOgE]

Ugg, I get into this debate all the time with my stupid Republican coworkers. They allways tell me and the other liberal I work with (a lesbian) that homosexuality is a choice. I want to choke them every time and say "SO FUCKING WHAT?"

I mean, I dont see anything wrong with homosexuality at all, so why does it matter if someone chose to be gay or if they were born that way? I just dont get the argument, its not like its being a choice makes it wrong by default.. you have to actually prove there is something wrong with being gay before it being a choice would ever matter, but most of them seem happy to think that it being a choice is enough to make it wrong (nevermind that they would have to choose to be strait in this scenario).

FWIW, I dont think its a choice, but moreover I dont see why it matters. Which is what puzzles me because alot of liberals and gay people alike try to argue that it isnt a choice, that they were born this way. Why bother? Just look them in the eye, say that two consenting adults of the same sex decided to have intercourse, and ask them what the problem is with that exactly... it undercuts about 50% of their arguements against it (the other 50% being it just isnt natural and Jesus hates homos)/

 

[olimario]

I don't see why it does, either.
If people would just learn to treat others with love and respect the world would be a lot less fucked up. Elitism ruins shit for everyone.

 

[Slo]

Well, if they believe that Homosexuality is a sin, then it makes a difference (to them) if you're willfully sinning or if you are unable to help yourself. Voluntary or involuntary.

 

[demon]

I don't think a lot people necessarily genuinely believe it's a choice, but convince themselves of it because, as a "choice", it reveals something about the person's character and makes it much easier and more justifiable in their eyes to chastise the perpetrators of gayness. And that's what they want, because regardless of whether or not it's a choice, they hate and are scared of homosexuality.

 

[olimario]

Well, if they believe that Homosexuality is a sin, then it makes a difference (to them) if you're willfully sinning or if you are unable to help yourself. Voluntary or involuntary.

If those homosexuals don't claim Christianity, why should it matter to a Christian what they choose to do if it doesn't effect them?

 

[StoOgE]

If those homosexuals don't claim Christianity, why should it matter to a Christian what they choose to do if it doesn't effect them?

it would be nice, but alot of religious people (not restricted just to Christians) feel they have a duty to shove their belief system down other peoples throats... but outside of faith based beliefs, there isnt a good arguement against homosexuality. Which is why I think they try and go with the "its a choice" arguement because they think its somehow objective, but it really isnt.

 

[xsarien]

I mean, I dont see anything wrong with homosexuality at all, so why does it matter if someone chose to be gay or if they were born that way?

1) Because Bible-reading, God-fearing people put that book, which I'm convinced causes more problems than it solves, before human interests, which disgusts me.

2) "Hate the sin, love the sinner" looks great on paper, but it's not nearly as much fun as passing judgement!

 

[Pellham]

Well, if they believe that Homosexuality is a sin, then it makes a difference (to them) if you're willfully sinning or if you are unable to help yourself. Voluntary or involuntary.

So if people thought black people were inferior, that would be okay?
You can't get around discrimination, not even with a religious pretext

 

[Slo]

So if people thought black people were inferior, that would be okay?
You can't get around discrimination, not even with a religious pretext

Who's saying that?

 

[demon]

So if people thought black people were inferior, that would be okay?
You can't get around discrimination, not even with a religious pretext

Going back to the point I made, if homosexuality is a choice, that's a lot different than being born black.

 

[Suerte]

Alls I knows is the wang.

 

[Fragamemnon]

If you concede that there is a genetic factor in sexual orientation, you do two things:

A) Introduce the notion that God makes people who have a higher propensity to be sinners. While this is disputably already the case, homosexuality is a "special" type of sin to American protestants, especially evangelicals, because of the invoking of vivid sexual imagery and associated lifestyle choices.

B) Tear down the notion that a secular, permissive/licentious society fosters homosexuality by not better encouranging and enforcing Christian mores on the public as a whole. This is at the heart of their scare tactics-convince parents that, if not properly protected (read: homeschooled/private schooled, stay-at-home mom, Church-dependent upbringing) from that society, then they could very well CATCH THE GAY, and a good chunk of parents really don't want gay kids-no grandkids and some degree of enstragement is guaranteed. Not to mention the behind-the-back remarks from the Jones' as they slag your parenting skills because your kid is a homosexual.

The end result of this is simple-protecting the innocence of the unborn, demonizing secular society, tarring homosexuals as lesser humans, and establishing a pattern of victimization as good parents have their kids whisked away to homosexual by a godless society.

You'll note that the above points are the driving ideas behind theofacist/Dominionist thought in America, as advocated by all of our favorite kooky preacher wingnuts. Every social wedge issue is cast, if possible, along those following four points.

 

[King Jippo]

If it is not a choice to live a homosexual lifestyle, does that mean its a genetic or biological condition that could rightfully considered a disease treatable with medication?

 

[Deleted member 4784]

What you should do is tell them that Christianity is a choice; that will shut them up. :lol

 

[teh_pwn]

Yeah, some of the holier than thou religious people fight against it because their teachings say it's a sin. (and they conveniently forget the teachings not to judge)

However, if homosexuality is genetic, then that would say that god is pre-damning certain people. It's real discriminatory, like being racist against blacks because they're black.



I don't think it's a choice. I never made a decision to be hetereosexual. And recent studies are finding that gays are different in that gay men are attracted to male sweat much like females are.

 

[borghe]

I have always believed in my mind somewhere that it isn't a choice.. it is genetic programming. I have believed this because if it were a choice, I can't understand why people would choose it. My belief is that it IS a deviant lifestyle if it is a choice, the same way someone is able to fuck pigs or kids or shit on each other as a choice. Just because you can make the choice doesn't make the choice right.

If it is in fact not a choice but a genetic or otherwise predisposition, then that changes it. If it can't be "helped" but is just in fact how someone is, then it certainly doesn't hurt anyone.

I know others won't agree with me, but those are my two cents. I hate homosexuality but not homosexuals. People are people and what you do is your own business. I still respect everyone the same and treat all equally. Just don't ask me my opinions on it and you need never know.

 

[whytemyke]

if you can make it so that homosexuality appears as a choice, you don't have to accept practicing homosexuals as a legitimate group. You can feel free to discriminate them at will, because its their fault for not conforming to the societal norm. This is the same reason you don't have to accept Goths or Fat people... it's their choice to be what they are, and if you don't like it, you can hate it without feeling like you're being close minded. They brought it on, its their fault, and they shouldn't put you into a position to accept it or not.

Not saying this is right. I'm just taking a stab at why people try to blame homosexuality as a choice.

 

[darscot]

I think the real problem is that people see it as deviant or wrong. I could care less if you choose it or not. There is nothing wrong with it. There are parts of being gay that soudn pretty good to me. I don't really think it's a choice for the sole reason as there have been times in my life were I had wished I could make that choice. Also I am pretty damn sure all men have considered it on some level. I personally find men far easier to deal with then women. During my twenties the idea of having to spend time with a women for anything other then sex was a nightmare. I often though shit life sure would be sweet and a fuck of alot easier if I found men sexually attractive. Anyone that tells me they've never been out with a girl thinking why am I putting myself through this just for sex, I would much rather be out with the guys is a liar! If your gay you get your cake and eat it too.

 

[karasu]

eh, all sexual behavior is a choice. It shouldn't even matter. Even if you believe it's a sin, God gave people free will so they can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they arent hurting anyone. If the Bible is full of his laws, they're laws that he doesn't force anyone to submit to. Morons don't realize that so they fight about who is doing what, as if they'e somehow perfect.

 

[Phoenix]

From all the listening I've done to the debate it kinda goes like this:

If it is a choice->then it is a medical/psychological problem that can be fixed->Gay people are just mentally disturbed->They don't deserve anything or special marriage rights

The people trying to push it as a choice seem to think that if people choose it then these people just need to be fixed, or come to Jesus and get fixed as a result.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

i don't remember choosing to be straight, so i don't see how homosexuality is a 'choice'.

 

[Father_Brain]

If it is not a choice to live a homosexual lifestyle, does that mean its a genetic or biological condition that could rightfully considered a disease treatable with medication?

There is NO SUCH THING as a "homosexual lifestyle," any more than there is such as a straight lifestyle. It may not be what you meant, but the implication of the idea of a monolithic "gay lifestyle" is that gays are pathologically promiscuous. This conforms to reality about as much as would the assumption that there is an "African-American lifestyle" consisting of singing spirituals while eating watermelon and fried chicken.

 

[SuperPac]

If it is a choice then when do straight people make that choice? I don't know any guy that woke up one day and said, "from today on I'm attracted to women! Vaginas only from now on!" You're attracted to who you're attracted to, be it same sex or opposite. Because society (generally) doesn't look very kindly on homosexuality, it forces many people to hide it or deny it or not talk about it -- maybe for many years. Then when they decide to accept it or come out with it, then that is their "choice." But I don't think anyone who is gay can say that their path was a conscious choice at any one point. Because yeah, why would anyone choose potential grief from family/church/friends/etc.?

And if you believe in the Kinsey scale, sexuality is not cut and dry -- it is a line upon which there are many points of attraction.

 

[maharg]

Just point out that Christianity is a choice and watch them froth at the mouth for a change.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Why can't it be both?

 

[demon]

Why can't it be both?

Considering the nature of sexual attraction, the burden of proof lies upon those who believe homosexuality to be a choice.

 

[Brannon]

I wonder if this takes into account the legion of homosexual animals in nature.

 

[Chony]

Why is it that when someone is introduced as gay, then the introducee always says they have a gay friend, and the two should hook up.

This never happens with heterosexuals. When I am introduced to someone, they introducers never say "Hey, I have a hot lady friend you should hook up with."

What is up with that?

 

[Warm Machine]

Dude, people can't agree on what console is better and feel that their console of choice is right for everyone. If we can't decide on something as miniscule as what console to play we're never going to settle on sexuality or religion.

 

[gofreak]

I'm not even going to read any of the posts in this thread. Doing so would probably just upset me (some of them). I will just say this much:

1) I didn't choose to be gay.

2) Unless you're gay, it's not your experience, and you can't comment credibly on whether it's a choice or not.

 

[Ryo]

Jebus.. I feel sorry for anyone thinking homosexuality is a choise. It's like "Oh.. I don't like breathing, so I choose not to! That'l work out great!"

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Well, if they believe that Homosexuality is a sin, then it makes a difference (to them) if you're willfully sinning or if you are unable to help yourself. Voluntary or involuntary.

Yeah, it makes them look like a bunch of clansman if they end up picking on people who can't help it. Which they do, BTW

 

[909er]

DEAR ABBY: In a recent column you advised the mother of a girl who had confided that she is gay and wants to come out, that homosexuality has "nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with genetics." You need to retract that statement. If you do not publicly admit your error, I will know you are a mouthpiece for the gay and lesbian crowd. -- LEONARD IN LYNCHBURG

DEAR LEONARD: If I did not believe with all my heart that what I wrote is true, I wouldn't have put my thoughts on paper. Homosexuality is simply a variant of sexual orientation. Those who claim it is "unnatural" should direct their attention to Dr. Joan Roughgarden, a biologist at Stanford University with a Ph.D. from Harvard, who states that more than 300 vertebrate species have been found to practice homosexuality. (A visit to any zoo might confirm it.) And while one gene may not be responsible for this variant, Italian researcher Andrea Camperio-Ciani of the University of Padua notes that research findings point to there being more than one "gay gene," and that the genetic factors linked to homosexuality in men are also linked to increased fertility in women.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucda/200505...ainclotheswanttoblendintothebackground/nc:793

I hate these whackos. Is Lynchburg a real place or is he implying what he plans to do to homosexuals?

 

[galeninjapan]

What you should do is tell them that Christianity is a choice; that will shut them up. :lol

LOLOLOlolLOLo YOu are Teh Funniest man alive!!!11!1! Tim Allen better keep an eye on you are funnies!

 

[Phoenix]

Why is it that when someone is introduced as gay, then the introducee always says they have a gay friend, and the two should hook up.

This never happens with heterosexuals. When I am introduced to someone, they introducers never say "Hey, I have a hot lady friend you should hook up with."

What is up with that?

You have some weak ass friends is all

 

[galeninjapan]

I wonder if this takes into account the legion of homosexual animals in nature.

Legions? Where the hell do you live.



It's probably something like this. Some people prefer it up the butt more than others. Whether they act on it or not is a choice. Truthfully very few people care if someone is gay or not. People start to care when gay people try to marry, adopt etc... I think the whole issue is a complicated one and everyone has to be Civil about it, and I think we can all reach a conclusion that suits the greater good.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Let's be honest here for the most part we are talking about gay men, we don't give a shit about gay women. Even the dykey ones. They just get caught up with the gay men.

 

[Dilbert]

It's probably something like this. Some people prefer it up the butt more than others. Whether they act on it or not is a choice. Truthfully very few people care if someone is gay or not. People start to care when gay people try to marry, adopt etc... I think the whole issue is a complicated one and everyone has to be Civil about it, and I think we can all reach a conclusion that suits the greater good.

what the

 

[Alyssa Hu$tle]

An excellent point - who cares if it is genetic or not? What difference does it make?

But that is to people like you and me who don’t judge or devalue or who are threatened by people that are gay.

I think people care when they are ashamed of it - a parent whose child is gay for example… “where did I go wrong?”… “Is it my fault he/she turned out this way” … if you make it genetic, it takes the blame away from them. Similarly to friends/co-workers etc…”he/she was born that way, it wasn’t his/her fault, so I am not a bad person if I like this person as a friend, it’s not like they chose to be this way”.
Often because of their upbringing, gay people themselves will care. “It’s not my fault I am this way, I was born like this, I am not a bad person” rather than just feeling comfortable with being who they are and accepting it for whatever reason.

My opinion on the topic - I think it is a combination of both. I think sure, you can have a genetic disposition to being that way,. But I also think environment can have a part to play as well.

Example. If I may generalise, most men are either “titts, bum or leg” men., in that one of these is a particular turn on when they are checking out chicks. Now, if you survey the guys who profess to fit into one of these categories and ask them to think back at the very first thing that really turned them on when they are a kid… the first full on sexual thought they can remember… it will usually correlate with some kind of exposure to titts/bums/legs (maybe on TV, maybe in real life, no matter). This was not genetic programming, rather it was environmental imprinting.

So I think it can be either, or, or both. But really, who the fuck cares? We are all people.