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[The Futurist]

Full disclaimer, my parents are from Hyderabad, but I was born in America.

My whole life I've seen India as this distant place that my ancestors came from. I know about it as much as most Indians that were born in America know.

I've visited family over the years, but it has always been as a tourist.

My question is why India and Indian society get a pass for so many absolute extreme and barbaric things that are almost inconceivable?

We point fingers at middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia because they don't let women drive, Iran because they don't let women go to soccer games, or North Korea for brainwashing an entire population, but for whatever reason no one really says anything about India.

Why?

People there get lynched by mobs because the mob thinks they've eaten beef. A mob will literally break into a person's house and kill them in front of their family because they think they ate beef.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/india-modi-beef-lynching-muslim-partition/533739/

This isn't some one in a while thing. It happens far too regularly for the world to ignore.

The same goes for rape. Can you imagine a country where gang rape is some normal part of society?

Where a rape is reported every 15 minutes?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40404102?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.com/news/topics/a4741524-eaa1-451a-b5d1-98028e965367/rape-in-india&link_location=live-reporting-story

I could post a ton of links, but you can use google.

If anyone is wondering why this thought came to my mind, I'll tell you. This past weekend, I was at a dinner party and my uncle said someone sent him a video from back home of an attack on a woman. This wasn't something he was happy sharing and I honestly wasn't paying attention but he leaned over and showed me his phone. I thought it was some news clip of a security camera. It wasn't. It was a man in the mob filming the attack.

I watched maybe 5 seconds of it and I don't think I've ever felt anger like that in my life. It was a group of 15-20 men that had completely surrounded a woman. They were pulling her hair and beating her. I stopped watching. My uncle said at the end they poured gasoline on her and lit on fire. I don't know, I didn't watch.

You know what? Say whatever the fuck you want about the middle east, or how they treat women, but until the day when gang rapes, lynching over eating beef, or videos of murder are commonplace in arab/muslim countries, I think I'll take the driving restrictions.

I saw 5 seconds of that kind of violence against a single human being and it fucked me up this badly.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Population of billions of people + poverty + lack of infrastructure = controlled chaos.

I don't think India gets a pass per se, and a lot of folks know about it's problems with violence and rape and racism/patriotism, but they're also a progressing country in places that benefits the west, so some like to put a veil and act blind.

Not only that but the news/media is so propaganda-fueled that folks don't pay attention to it, and when your internal problems gets blamed on the neighboring countries, it's a hot potato.

 

[aeolist]

the american outrage machine only fires up if the victims of things like this are american or if they happen in countries we're working our way towards invading and/or bombing

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Probably cause India has a lot of influence on the world stage a lot of Indian people spread out through the world are self-delusional about how awesome they are.

Modern-day Indian culture is really shitty, especially when it comes to women. I dunno if it's from gender imbalance or puritanical attitudes run amock, but yeah, shit's fucked.

 

[Humidex]

OP, would you say it's become noticeably worse since Modi came to power? (in the sense that it's empowered certain sections of Indian society to act the way they do?)

 

[perfectchaos007]

Isn't child sex slavery pretty big there too?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Probably because it is not imposed by the government. Nobody is denying India has major problems, but at least it is not the aim of the national government to implement those terrible things.

 

[The Futurist]

OP, would you say it's become noticeably worse since Modi came to power? (in the sense that it's empowered certain sections of Indian society to act the way they do?)

I honestly don't know.

My extended family is always going on about Indian politics. I refuse to.

I just don't care at all.

 

[Wag]

Strategic military location which is also a "democracy".

 

[Scalpel Knight]

I'm not sure if they get a "pass" from society as we know it, but the culture there is very backwards, same as my place of origin. If the people (and thus, the law) there don't change their values as a whole then nothing will happen. I live in a very ignorant culture and it's the same thing, though on a lesser scale.

 

[faridmon]

No one is giving it a pass. Even Indians in India know that that country have fucked up things going on. The problem is its large population and country means that controlling its chaotic nature is a challenging prospect.

 

[Preezy]

I think the West (in general) don't kick up a fuss about the stuff that goes in India because India isn't seen as a potential threat to Western society in the way that the Middle East is. I think if Indian extremists started killing Western civilians or committing terrorist acts in the US or Europe then the stuff that goes on in the country would get a lot more media and governmental attention.

I agree though, India is a dumpster fire of religious retardation, social caste inequality, over population, pollution and extremist social views.

 

[Valhelm]

the american outrage machine only fires up if the victims of things like this are american or if they happen in countries we're working our way towards invading and/or bombing

To refine this a little bit, I think that because India is generally peripheral to US foreign policy (our main interest is preventing conflict with China or Pakistan), our media doesn't watch the subcontinent very closely and there are no state pressures to expose Indian wrongdoing.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I honestly don't know.

My extended family is always going on about Indian politics. I refuse to.

I just don't care at all.

And therein lies the problem that I explained. No one wants to pay attention to Indian politics as no one wants to look bad or say shit about Modi. Modi is your "average man become politician" story, and no one likes criticizing that. When Modi goes on stage, disses everyone and says "I bet the haters are gonna kill me, so here I am kill me!", it only gains sympathy from the crowd.

Nevertheless, every country has their own internal problems, India is just smart enough to convince the crowd it isn't there, and conceal it before the world starts noticing. Statistically 1% of Indians acting loco is still 1% even if you're comparing with billions of people.

 

[faridmon]

I think the West (in general) don't kick up a fuss about the stuff that goes in India because India isn't seen as a potential threat to Western society in the way that the Middle East is.

I agree though, India is a dumpster fire of religious retardation, social caste inequality, over population, pollution and extremist social views.

Can we be adults about this, please.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I wouldn't say I personally give it a pass, I just know very little about India post independence apart from the rose tinted rubbish you get from the films, the best exotic marigold hotel and stuff along those lines, so I don't wanna be ignorant about it.

 

[The Futurist]

I think the West (in general) don't kick up a fuss about the stuff that goes in India because India isn't seen as a potential threat to Western society in the way that the Middle East is.

I agree though, India is a dumpster fire of religious retardation, social caste inequality, over population, pollution and extremist social views.

I had completely forgotten about the caste stuff...

We don't have any perception of it here in America, but do not ever forget that India is a country that is still divided by a caste system. Where people are killed for marrying out of their own castes.

 

[Shadowhelper]

Imagine if a middle eastern nation practiced female infanticide. The scale Indians doe this is disturbing.

That's one of the main problems in India. Theres a 100 million missing women, due to the practice of female infanticide in India.

That leads to some of the extreme sexual violence, and it becomes the norm and part of societ. And I mean, killing female babies, is like kinda the height of sexism isn't it? But yea, because its not one of the countries we have deemed evil, we ignore it.

 

[JWiLL]

You know what? Say whatever the fuck you want about the middle east, or how they treat women, but until the day when gang rapes, lynching over eating beef, or videos of murder are commonplace in arab/muslim countries, I think I'll take the driving restrictions.

I totally agree with your post overall, but...they do these types of things and worse in many Arab countries. Women are murdered for "stepping out of line" all the time, even if that just means speaking to another man in passing.

I'd say "Google it", but it's not exactly pleasant reading.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

The occasional Gaf thread here about India should tell you that nobody gives India a pass for anything.

People just don't get to see it a lot in their media. Though I'm pretty sure everyone in Asia knows it has huge problems

 

[The Futurist]

I totally agree with your post overall, but...they do these types of things and worse in many Arab countries. Women are murdered for "stepping out of line" all the time, even if that just means speaking to another man in passing.

I'd say "Google it", but it's not exactly pleasant reading.

You're not wrong, and I'm absolutely not defending or denying those things in Arab countries.

It just doesn't happen anywhere near this level.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I totally agree with your post overall, but...they do these types of things and worse in many Arab countries. Women are murdered for "stepping out of line" all the time, even if that just means speaking to another man in passing.

I'd say "Google it", but it's not exactly pleasant reading.

Actually, in Arab/Middle East, it's more of a problem of raping men/boys than women.

 

[Preezy]

Can we be adults about this, please.

I didn't mean that in a childish way :/

Religion in India has people being killed for eating beef or touching cows. It has people being raped for bringing apparent dishonour on a family or village. How that doesn't display a level of societal retardation I don't know.

 

[Proelite]

India is a huge third world country so all third world problems will be multiplied. Let's see some statics per capita.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I would say another factor is that India also has a peculiar place in western culture as the icon of resistance to colonialism, and development as a post-colonial nation. Of democracy flourishing from beneath the boot of imperialism. I mean, most people in the west can't actually name an Indian political leader to save their life, but there's good odds they know who Gandhi is. For a lot of countries, the only person of note that'll get named is some infamous dictator - not so with India.

Combine this with centuries of cultural iconography of India as this great jewel of the east, and the cultural assumption about India defaults to positive, which not even other western nations are always afforded. People are inclined more to talk and think about more what India has achieved - its film industries, its democracy, its space program - than what it still has to work out the kinks for. Especially since the latter are very, very cultural issues that require at least some basic insight into where Indian society stands today, rather than a simple checklist of things it has that makes it kinda comparable to a western nation.

There's still some awareness though, and I think the profile of Modi has inadvertently raised these issues more than usual. I mean, I knew I wasn't exactly paying attention to the politics over the differing levels of support given to varying castes until last year.

 

[Shadowhelper]

Modi is the biggest indictment against Indians, imo. The man lead mobs that killed tens of thousands of innocent people, and a hundred thousand rapes. The mans the indian Hitler. Was banned from America and the EU before he became leader.

And this is a country that practices female infanticide. Its this cultural practice that leads to there being not enough women, and too many men, which leads the unseens sexual violence in India, but the attitude of female infanticide obviously also further enables the sexual violence.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Big country, big challenges. Last I checked it was also a democratic country with a fully functioning judiciary, police, and independent media.

"Gangrape is normal". Give me a break lol.

 

[slit]

Can we be adults about this, please.

You're reading that wrong.

 

[wandering]

I'm not trying to defend India's status quo, but some of the comments in here are pretty startling.

 

[Preezy]

I'm not trying to defend India's status quo, but some of the comments in here are pretty startling.

Please be specific.

 

[Messofanego]

India definitely doesn't get a pass with me, just like my home country Pakistan doesn't get a pass with the homophobic and transphobic attacks.

There's a good documentary on the Gulabi (pink) Gang (by Al Jazeera) who work to rid misogyny and attacks in rural India.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It doesn't get any pass, check stories in any major US newspaper over the last few years related to India. Lots of negative stories.

But it also is a country with full democracy at State and national level which has held peaceful elections since Independence. There is an independent judiciary also.

In most cases people realize that there are problems, it will always have problems did to it's population. They aren't hidden. But it is also working towards solving it.

 

[smisk]

It is weird. I was reading about the riots the other week after a religious leader was convicted of rape. It was apparently very violent and a couple dozen people ended up dying (mostly shot by the military) yet it barely registered over here. Meanwhile the much less violent marches in the US are in the headlines for weeks.

 

[siddx]

I'm not Indian but I was born there and I try to keep an eye on how the nation is going just because I feel some form of connection to the nation. And yeah...it's concerning how much ignorance and mob rage controls people's lives there. I have a lot of friends who live there who are constantly frustrated and upset by the fuckery going on with corruption, violence against women, racism and islamaphobia, and religious idiocy used to justify so much of it.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

Combine this with centuries of cultural iconography of India as this great jewel of the east, and the cultural assumption about India defaults to positive, which not even other western nations are always afforded. People are inclined more to talk and think about more what India has achieved - its film industries, its democracy, its space program - than what it still has to work out the kinks for. Especially since the latter are very, very cultural issues that require at least some basic insight into where Indian society stands today, rather than a simple checklist of things it has that makes it kinda comparable to a western nation.

Was going to say something like this but you did a better than I was going to.
My girlfriend really wants to go to India someday and explore but I am dead set against it. There's definitely a lot of hype for the positive parts of India and those positive parts culturally seem to come up more in popular culture than the negative.

I've heard Nepal is like a better version of India to go to and yet no one really talks about it as a destination, that cultural cache that India has is a huge part of the problems you've listed

 

[Akuun]

It really shouldn't get a pass. A lot of things that happen there are reprehensible and should be more widely condemned.

It's just that it's not front and center in North American media because they're always busy talking about other stuff, so a lot of people around here simply don't hear much about it.

My girlfriend really wants to go to India someday and explore but I am dead set against it. There's definitely a lot of hype for the positive parts of India and those positive parts culturally seem to come up more in popular culture than the negative.

There was a blog post I saw a while back from a girl who visited India, where she highlighted both the great things about it along with the shocking amount of sexual harassment she had to deal with while she was there. She got PTSD from the amount of harassment she had to endure. It was really hair raising to read.

Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1023053

 

[4Tran]

The two main reasons are that India is a democracy and that it is seen as the counterbalance to a rising China. It's a blind spot in the West to be extremely generous to countries that are seen as democracies, and so India is thought of as "known" and "safe" without much thought given to it. China is often portrayed as a vaguely malevolent power so a lot of things about that country, border disputes, pollution, corruption, etc. are heavily scrutinized. India is the "good" counterpart to China and is often spoken of as being similar in development. Since it's one of the good guys, negative stories are less sexy to report on so we hear about it less often.

It doesn't get any pass, check stories in any major US newspaper over the last few years related to India. Lots of negative stories.

But it also is a country with full democracy at State and national level which has held peaceful elections since Independence. There is an independent judiciary also.

In most cases people realize that there are problems, it will always have problems did to it's population. They aren't hidden. But it is also working towards solving it.

The pass is less that the stories are completely ignored but that they're not given much attention. The general public is going to know very little about India as a result.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

It really shouldn't get a pass. A lot of things that happen there are reprehensible and should be more widely condemned.

It's just that it's not front and center in North American media because they're always busy talking about other stuff, so a lot of people around here simply don't hear much about it.

There was a blog post I saw a while back from a girl who visited India, where she highlighted both the great things about it along with the shocking amount of sexual harassment she had to deal with while she was there. She got PTSD from the amount of harassment she had to endure. It was really hair raising to read.

Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it.

Yeeesh, yeah I definitely couldn't deal with that even as a witness can't imagine what it was like for her.

 

[RustyNails]

The beef vigilantes are just like Taliban thugs.

 

[VeeP]

India gets a pass for many reasons.

One, it's a young country that was fucked over by the British, and it's a huge country. A billion people in a huge land, with different beliefs, languages, etc.

Two, it's not really a focus of the American media. Countries like Pakistan, China, North Korea, Russia are.

Third, the India government does a good job with its propaganda and spinning. They make you think figures like Gandhi were amazing, or that India is a jewel of the east.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I've seen no evidence that India "gets a pass"; not here, not in the media, and not in real life. It's justifiably called out for its outrages on a regular basis, just like China or other high-profile developing countries.

The general population (here in Canada, at least) don't know details of the country's current events and trends, but then, they don't know those about most countries.

 

[Melon Husk]

Unlike China, India isn't perceived to have their shit together in general. Central Africa gets a free pass too. Could be also due to distant foreign relations.

 

[Noirulus]

First of all, India hardly gets a pass. Anytime something happens in India, people come out of the woodworks and become extremely critical. I've even seen similar incidents in different parts of the world that are glossed over by the international media, yet if something terrible happens in India it's ALWAYS in the spotlight.

You were born in America but your parents are from Hyderabad. I was born in Hyderabad and raised in Canada.

I can tell you without a doubt that your preconceived notions based on a few articles are wrong. Gang rape is a part of the culture? Wtf are you smoking? You've clearly never stepped foot in India or at least not spent a significant amount of time there. Gang rape happens fucking everywhere in the world, it's not something specific to India. Evil people are everywhere. For the most part India is a safe place.

In a country of 1.2 billion people, there are bound to be bad apples. And it's great that whenever something significantly bad happens, the indian media absolutely fucking beats the shit out of it on air for days on end and shows the events that transpired. What does this mean? That these events happen, but they're isolated and rare.

 

[Keri]

I don't think India is getting a pass. There has been plenty of recent attention on the rape epidemic in India and a lot of discussion about avoiding tourism in that area, because of the risk of gang rapes. I think I've posted multiple times, in threads about India, about how I'd personally never visit.

I also just saw a news article about parents travelling from India, to help their son beat his new wife, although I can't remember if they traveled to the U.S. or Canada. I feel like the awful aspects of Indian culture are pretty well known...except the acts of murder over suspected beef eating. I'd not heard of that before.

 

[AuthenticM]

It doesn't. Every time a fucked up story from India surfaces, everyone condemns it.

 

[MikeyB]

I can tell you without a doubt that your preconceived notions based on a few articles are wrong. Gang rape is a part of the culture? Wtf are you smoking?

You might be right avout gang rape, but marital rape definitely seems to be part of the culture.

 

[shaneskim]

I'm glad my grandad chose to leave that dumpster fire. Cheers pops

India gets a massive pass, if it were Muslim majority it'd be up there on the hit list.

The intolerance of minorities and treatment of women is disgusting.

 

[Lumyst]

The two main reasons are that India is a democracy and that it is seen as the counterbalance to a rising China.

On this point, a few weeks back I was watching CGTN and a Chinese official pointed to India's problems and reminded viewers that India is the largest Democracy in the world. A agree with you that there does exist a feeling in the US that India is not malevolent and China is.

 

[Sirpopopop]

There are many non-western countries that get a "pass" in Western media precisely because they aren't a threat to western interests.

Look at the poster in this thread shitting on India & then talking about Nepal as some sort of better alternative.

While Modi was doing his shit in Gujurat, there was a brutal civil war in Nepal.

Nepal is still recovering from the 2015 earthquake with the vast majority of homes not even being rebuilt.

Marrying children is still a practice there.

However, there isn't going to be much publicity of these problems. Coverage yes, publicity no. There are a wide variety of topics to cover & the ones that are going to get the most attention are the problems most likely to affect viewers or problems that countries like the viewer's country are going to experience. Easier to prioritize those than problems in a country thats problems are largely "internal."

 

[Devil]

I don't think it is because of their influential status - China and Russia get a lot more flak and are a lot more influential.

It may be because India's society is extremely complicated to judge. An outsider might feel overwhelmed by trying to understand which groups hate which etc.

But it is indeed strange how little is talked about what an asshat the current Prime Minister Narendra Modi is. Being a figure behind one of the most violent ethnic murders and all. He was even forbidden to enter the US for what he allegedly did. That topic went away like the day after he was elected. The BJP is a hindu nationalist party and no one cares..