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[BiGBoSSMk23]

Jesus. Has Zack Snyder fucked your moms or something?

The amount of personal hate this guy gets here is unwarranted.

Hahhahaah

Apparently .

I loved Watchmen, for the record.

The characters and themes are obviously too big for a 2 hour+ movie but it was good. Visually stunning as well.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I know he is a capable director. He made Dawn of the dead which had lot of good practical effects and less CGI spam. It was well written and directed. So I know he can still do good movies. I wonder if studios just force him to make movies the way he makes them now. Look at how the directors over at marvel are approaching their movies. They are doing great work over there with comic books (AoU wasn't very good though).

And they end up feeling like TV show two-parters.

 

[Currygan]

why do a lot of shit directors keep getting work? because their movies are a commercial success, see Bay

 

[Fezan]

Yup.. it's very similar.

Watchmen has a tone problem: a weird combination of sentimentality and aggressive machismo action.

Man of Steel has a tone problem: an idealistic superhero played as if it's a gritty melodrama.

You don't go wildly recommending these films to people, because there's something kind of "uncanny" about the experience.

That's why I say it's a simple result of the material not being suited for the basic sentiments of the director.

Well I think MOS had other problems. Only with few changes it would have been one of the best CBM ever.

Dont make kents cunts.
Change the dialogue a bit. Like instead of Maybe give a positive message like every life is precious no matter how small or insignificant it feels but do it in a way so that no one can hurt your loved ones etc. Well he was a farmer and gave him example of some plant or fertilizer shit .
Instead of destroying mans truck there should be a scene where the same truck driver was stuck in some accident and superman helps him.
Instead of just watching pa kent die he should have flown in tornado to save him but he dies giving him a lesson that you cant save any one .
Finally if he was caring about and saving civilians in the last fight it would have not made him a hero but also gave much drama to the scene and show how much he was pushed when he had to kill zod

 

[Nanashrew]

Problem with aggregate scores is that it's just a number and loses a lot of context to why something might get reviewed well, poorly or mixed. Many times you will not agree with the aggregate score, I loved Speed Racer and it was scored pretty low. However, I also do like some of the Wachowskis works. They're experimental, sometimes not coherent but at least there's some interesting things I can admire about them. Zack Snyder is more like a one trick pony, following the same story beats, tonal dissonance, often times a mess and very few redeemable factors. Outside of a couple, most of his works are mediocre.

You don't even have to use an aggregate score, I go by his history and I just know when I see BvS it will be the same old same old.

 

[MoG EclipsE]

I don't get it... Sure his movies are hated by critics (which I will never understand), but the audience likes them.

IMDB scores:

300: 7.8

watchmen: 7.6

Dawn of the Dead: 7.4

Man of Steel: 7.2

Owls: 7

Literally the only movie not very well received was Sucker Punch. Overall though, his movies are really well received by the audience. Who the fuck cares about the critics. That's why he keeps getting work.

 

[Speevy]

I don't get it... Sure his movies are hated by critics (which I will never understand), but the audience likes them.

IMDB scores:

300: 7.8

watchmen: 7.6

Dawn of the Dead: 7.4

Man of Steel: 7.2

Owls: 7

Literally the only movie not very well received was Sucker Punch. Overall though, his movies are really well received by the audience. Who the fuck cares about the critics. That's why he keeps getting work.

Here's the thing though. It's not like the critics have an ax to grind with him or don't know how to review comic book movies. They're well accustomed to handing out free passes to whatever video game CG-fest with vague social/moral/political implications.

He's just made some shit movies, and the critics don't like them. Critics are people too.

 

[riotous]

Ok... I love Bad Boys 2... but now i hear all these people talking so much shit about BvS and going by Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic as part of the argument...

BAD BOYS 2 HAS A 23% RATING. You are saying Bad Boys 2 is a good movie and BvS is shit... Opinions like this make me think I will actually enjoy BvS. Thanks for returning the hype.

Did you watch Bad Boys 2 when you were 12 and haven't since?

Because that is the onl explanation for why you love it.

Sorry for being condescending but that movie is awful shite.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I see Zack is now getting the Lucas treatment. People are disgusting.

 

[Jigolo]

Zack Snyder isn't a shitty director, that's why he keeps getting work. Yes he fucked up BvS but he's an ok director

 

[yanipheonu]

He has a distinct style, great visuals, but desperately needs a good script or source material to fall on. His adaptations (300, Watchmen) are my personal favourites of his, but his more original stuff tends to miss story elements that would really have made the movie more than just pretty to look at.

Between the fairly infamous "kicking the girl through the roof unscathed" Sucker Punch scene, and some of the more awkward moments of Man of Steel (Pa Kent and the Tornado, Supes killing Zod) tend to stem from a script that's more concerned with visual setpieces and than consistency and establishing characters.

The "Star Wars killed more people than Man of Steel" side of Snyder that holds him back. He's convinced he knows what right for the movie, when it's entirely possible he's got things wrong. Bit more self awareness, maybe reading some books on better storytelling, and he'd be pretty awesome.

It's what annoys me about Snyder. He could be so much better with the right attitude.

 

[Wensih]

I've really enjoyed all of his films... I don't really get the hate for MoS.

 

[thepotatoman]

He's like an even more extreme Michael Bay. His storytelling skills are somehow even worse than Bay, but his action and spectacle skills are even better.

 

[thehypocrite]

The vitriol against this guy is totally insane.

.

There's a reason he gets work. Maybe studios executives should ask gaffers that know nothing about the industry how they should spend their money.

You guys are out of control with your ignorance and hate.

 

[AfroDust]

I don't hate the guy but I definitely think DC/WB would be wise to let him go as soon as they can and get a more capable storyteller behind the wheel of this franchise. I just saw the movie and while there a fleeting moments of absolute greatness, and the action is fun to watch for the most part, there was alot of questionable/straight up confusing editing choices and storytelling flubs that just made it a hollow behemoth of a film. I get bummed just thinking about how great this movie could have been.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

If Snyder gets a better editor and much more competent writers, he can do a decent job at directing. I would say he's a good visual director.

 

[starchild excalibur]

He did relatively well with Dawn of the Dead and 300, but had a downward slide up until he got his Man of Steel gig. Regardless of how you feel about Snyder, MoS is the type of film that would have done well in the box office regardless of almost anyone who directed it (save for maybe Uwe Boll or someone).

That movie was assumed to do (and ended up doing) well, so he got BvS, Justice League, etc.

I'm more interested in seeing how many more chances he'd have gotten had he been left to do less bankable franchises. He had a pretty downward slide for a few years (Watchmen - Guardians of Gahool - Sucker Punch).

He's a nice guy, but I'm not a fan of him as a director. He's the epitome of the worst parts of a music video or commercial director to me - all visuals, no story. And his visuals, with the exception of Dawn of the Dead, are so green screen-heavy to me that nothing feels like it actually exists in the world. But, hey, he got the deal with DC's superheroes so he's got his.

If Snyder gets a better editor and much more competent writers, he can do a decent job at directing. I would say he's a good visual director.

The director is the one that coalesces all the pieces though. And it's not like MoS was his first mediocre (to me, anyway) film. He co-wrote Sucker Punch. it was his brainchild and he still fucked that up. And he had great material with Watchmen, but the direction was poor in it. And say what you will about Goyer as a writer, but in the Q&A I attended with Snyder for MoS, Snyder said that he actively tweaked and changed a lot of MoS's story and Goyer's reaction was that he was fine with it.

He may not be an awful director, but there are many more talented people that could be helming $200m franchises than Snyder.

 

[thehypocrite]

Here's the thing though. It's not like the critics have an ax to grind with him or don't know how to review comic book movies. They're well accustomed to handing out free passes to whatever video game CG-fest with vague social/moral/political implications.

He's just made some shit movies, and the critics don't like them. Critics are people too.

If only you were right, but you aren't. He has made good and great movies, he did failed with Sucker Punch and the results attest to that, but this overly vindictive and personal crap on a person you don't even know is fucked up.

It's like the fucking internet doesn't get that piling hate and shit on people can have negative consequences and outcomes. People are taking and making this too personal.

 

[starchild excalibur]

If only you were right, but you aren't. He has made good and great movies,

Opinions n' all that. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.

The best movie Snyder has made to me is Dawn of the Dead, and I remember watching that and thinking it still paled in comparison to 28 Days Later which came out around that same time.

300 had the potential to be a great film, but the over-reliance on green screen, slo-mo, and CG/floaty blood tarnished any grittiness the film may otherwise have had. It all felt so god damn fake despite its oozing of masculine bravado on the surface.

Watchmen had one good scene in it: the Dr. Manhattan origin montage. Billy Crudup was easily the best directed actor in that. Jackie Earl Haley was doing a McGruff snarl all the way through, Malin Ackerman was just awful, and again the film suffered from looking cheap due to its over-reliance of green screen.

Didn't see Gahool, so maybe that one was awesome. Don't know.

Sucker Punch was just awful all around. I don't want to bother articulating how and why since most people agree.

MoS had a charmless Superman, rubbery CG body double fight scenes, and a lack of soul (again, to me) overall.

You can argue that he's had good and great films and I'll argue that he's had okay and mediocre films. But at the end of the day, the reason he has his current gig probably has a lot to do with a combination of the rep he still has from 300, a good pitch for his vision of Superman, and because he's probably well liked as a person.

The Wachowski sisters haven't had a bonafide hit since their Matrix saga and they've gotten carte blanche time and time again to spend a lot of money in the service of making box office bombs. It'd be fair to argue that while the first Matrix was a well-done film, based off their track record they aren't really good filmmakers. Yet they still keep getting funding.

 

[Ascenion]

The real question is why he keeps getting superhero films. Zack is an okay director and a visual mastermind. Dude just doesn't get superheroes. I know this, he knows it, we all know it. Watchmen, Man of Steel and now BvS all have damning flaws in some way. Watchmen less so than the others. I'm not sure how much of that is his fault though. David Goyer is shit tier at this point without Nolan to clean up his messes and Zack isn't a plot guy. His non-adaptations kinda make that obvious. Superman isn't a gritty character and I'm not sure why they keep trying to force that. BvS proves this again. Batman works well in the film yet again however Supes is the problem, pretty much anything tied to him in the film is a problem. But Snyder on the whole is okay.

 

[vio]

Because he is not even close as bad as Uwe Boll is. His movies make money too. There are way worse directors out there keep getting work .
Neogaf is a Snyder hate train these days, fucking weird.

I was wondering how would Tim Burton`s Batman get accepted if it was made today. So different, those horror fairytale visuals, all those changes to comic.

 

[munchie64]

Because he is a white male probably has something to do with it. Because he's in with Warner Bros. is probably another part.

 

[Sojgat]

Thanks for the insight. There is zero wrong with what I said. Snyder doesn't even have the fundamentals of storytelling much less an understanding of these characters down. You enjoy the movie? Fine. All that implies is that you enjoy his movies.

You think there's zero wrong with it because you haven't fully thought through what you've said or how pompous it sounds.

You're right that a like of something does not equate to a measure of quality. Conversely, something not conforming to your sensibilities doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, just that you don't like it. Saying that Snyder makes good movies is not some "off the charts" opinion. It's a thought that can be reasonably expressed without requiring a lesson in how it should be phrased.

IMO he actually has made some good (not great) movies. He definitely seems to lack in the storytelling department, but his movies do have other strengths.

 

[Sojgat]

I never mentioned my sensibilities or how anything not tuned to it didn't equate to being bad.

And yes, saying Snyder makes good movies is stupid.Saying he makes movies you enjoy is an entirely different matter.

You're still doing it, lol.

 

[Apt101]

I'm not surprised that he gets work, period. I'm just surprised that he got to helm big budget movies after Watchmen, his stupid owl movie, and Sucker Punch flopped.

Ah, I took a swing by IMDB - he's a producer for all of the upcoming DC movies, so he's pitching in some of his own money. Must have earned him a lot of influence with Warner. Still, surprising.

 

[HowZatOZ]

It's warranted.

Not content with the mediocrity lent to numerous film adaptations, he shat out the worst film of the year and destroyed two iconic heroes simultaneously.

He may have just destroyed Ben Affleck's career too. I'm not sure.

Now that's some serious hyperbole if I've ever seen it.

He's a fine director and clearly people like his movies enough to warrant him more movies to work on. Hollywood is pretty quick to throw the towel on those who don't do well.

Also the vitriol directors get on this board is hilarious and sad. It's quite clear he's a fine director, despite the opinions on many of his movies both critical and audience wide.

 

[Sojgat]

We'really not talking about my sensibilities. Lol. Your strawman won't work not matter how hard you pretend to. We never discussed my sensibilities. You did.

There is no strawman here.

Snyder doesn't even have the fundamentals of storytelling much less an understanding of these characters down.

^ I agree with this, but it's still only an opinion.

You don't like his creative choices, they don't line up with how you would like things to be done. Correct? The story should be told in a different way, the characters presented as you would like. Your sensibilities (the kinds of feelings that you have when you hear, see, read, or think about something) and Snyder's do not conform with each other.


Getting back to your original post in response to XBP saying Snyder made good movies:

A better phrasing would be "I don't know whether he makes good movies or not, but I find myself enjoying them." There is nothing wrong with that. Saying he makes good movies is off the charts

^This is really condescending.

You're telling someone else that they don't understand their own opinion, instructing them on a "better" way of phrasing what is actually your appraisal of their opinion, and then simultaneously berating said opinion while presenting your own as fact.

It just bugged me, so I made a little dig at you. I honestly didn't think it would get this drawn out.

 

[KonradLaw]

He makes pretty movies and seem like a dude who won't try to change anything in the script.
Snyder is a dude who can take a script you give him and make it look pretty on screen. That's it.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I'll give Snyder a little credit for making some great looking movies and Dawn of the Dead was a good, fun movie, for a remake of a classic anyway but he really needs to work with some better writers because his movies are always style over substance.

 

[SystemBug]

For what its worth he's a great visual director.

 

[EGM1966]

Well, despite never making a great film and making more than a few mediocre ones remember:

His films tend to be profitable
He's competent managing production of genre films with effects
He's solid with action (although he can suck at it too)
He's decent with composition (he's not, for the record, an amazing visualist as some enthusiastically claim)

That makes him a fairly solid if uninspired bet for a genre action/SF/fantasy film and of course his agent and himself will be campaigning as such.

Given that studios ultimately care more about revenue/profit than reviews and aclaim, particularly for genre movies, it's easy to see why he gets work.

 

[True Savior]

He's a competent visualist.

 

[Novocaine]

Probably the same reason Bay still gets work. I have no fucking idea why.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It's so funny to hear people talk shit about 300 considering how this very board was kissing that movies' ass when it came out and calling it the future of moviemaking.

 

[insanekyo]

I think Zack Snyder is the least of our problems when it comes to bad hollywood directors. He's just currently under the hot seat from critics for BvS.

I went to a thursday night showing and people at our show actually clapped at the end. Something tells me this movie will be more for fans then critics, as it usually is with a lot of genre films.

 

[Schlomo]

People hate Watchmen now? I'd take a film like that over another Marvel movie any day.

 

[Timbuktu]

I guess he keeps to budget.

 

[Chariot]

Jesus. Has Zack Snyder fucked your moms or something?

Worse. He fucked fictional, drawn characters I care about.

 

[Dennis]

Most of his films are financially successful even if they aren't critically acclaimed I think.

 

[KonradLaw]

Probably the same reason Bay still gets work. I have no fucking idea why.

Pain & Gain is enough to make Bay's whole career be worth it.

 

[Osahi]

Because peopple like his movies I guess?

I have only seen 300 and Watchmen from him. And I hated 300 (can't understand all the love this movie gets. It is boring as fuck and the visual slowmo style is only 'cool' for like 5 minutes, then it becomes tiring and a bit later pure self-parody). I did like Watchmen though. That movie had many flaws, but had a lot of great moments too. I think the brilliance of the source material helps a lot.

Not a fan of Superman, so I skipped Man of Steel (imo Superman is a really boring superhero, and I hated the brooding look of that film too, based on the trailers). As I like Batman a lot I wanted to give BvS a chance, but after all the negative buzz I can think of better ways to spend 2,5 hours and ten euros.

 

[Poona]

Not a fan of Superman, so I skipped Man of Steel (imo Superman is a really boring superhero, and I hated the brooding look of that film too, based on the trailers). As I like Batman a lot I wanted to give BvS a chance, but after all the negative buzz I can think of better ways to spend 2,5 hours and ten euros.

Wasn't there negative buzz on The Good Dinosaur as well? yet you have some sort of appreciation for that by the look of your avatar. You may find you enjoy BvS too.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Same reason Michael Bay keeps getting work, but I think these Hollywood folk mistake the bankability of the franchises they helm for the bankability of the directors.

But at least Bay has had Bad Boys 2, The Rock and Pain & Gain as good movies

You mean Bad Boys 1.

It's so funny to hear people talk shit about 300 considering how this very board was kissing that movies' ass when it came out and calling it the future of moviemaking.

Yeah, definitely some revisionist history shit going on in that respect.

 

[blackdevil]

-He is a bad writer imo.
-Loves to spam bad CGI and slow motion crap.
-studios force him to spam slow motion and CGI combined with garbage dialogue

1. He didnt write this, did he?
2. spam bad CGI? is he sitting behind the PC working on CGI now too? jesus...
Was there slow motion in Man of steel?
3.studios force him to "spam slow mo and CGI"... what is this crap? is this all you can come up with?

I have the feeling Snyder gets shit for the dumbest reasons.

 

[Octavianus]

Dude Zack Snyder films have all relatively been pretty great.

Dawn of the Dead
300
Watchmen: Director's Cut

Have all been great.

 

[Blastoise]

300 is a legit modern day masterpiece. 5/5

Watchmen by Snyder was probably the best we could get from a Watchmen film. 3/5

 

[Orbis]

Man of Steel was okay at best, nothing special and had some flaws. But enjoyable nonetheless.

I can't say I really like any of his other films (to be honest I haven't paid much attention to them or seen half of them) but I thought BvS was decent. It was all over the place at first but I thought it worked overall and I enjoyed it. Compared to Age of Ultron, which wasn't all over the place but was actually quite unenjoyable. It was poor enough to slightly put me off the MCU but I'm sure Civil War will fix that.

 

[Monocle]

Man of Steel was okay at best, nothing special and had some flaws. But enjoyable nonetheless.

I can't say I really like any of his other films (to be honest I haven't paid much attention to them or seen half of them) but I thought BvS was decent. It was all over the place at first but I thought it worked overall and I enjoyed it. Compared to Age of Ultron, which wasn't all over the place but was actually quite unenjoyable. It was poor enough to slightly put me off the MCU but I'm sure Civil War will fix that.

I thought it was solid. Humor and action were on point. Ultron was great. The Hulkbuster was great. The Vision was great. Well paced too. And as always (in Marvel movies), the tone felt right. Not like DC's grimdark weirdness.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I can understand people not being into 300 or Watchmen (considering some of the changes that were made in the adaptation), but Dawn of the Dead was a legit great film. I've seen people on this board rag on that film for 12 years now and I still don't understand it. Love that film.

 

[blackdevil]

I can't say I really like any of his other films (to be honest I haven't paid much attention to them or seen half of them).

this thread keeps on giving....