I mean, Nintendo was the absolute KIND of multi-platinume titles on the N64. I don't think they even have a game that's reached two million yet in the U.S.?? During the N64 days most games were 4 million +! It just seems like Gamecube gamers aren't buying that many games? Or Nintendo isn't giving the fans what they want? Just curious of everyone's opinion here...
Why has Nintendo's game sales been less than stellar on the Gamecube?
- Thread starter MrparisSM
- Start date
The lineup has more to offer: People are spreading their purchases out more, I think. I'm buying more games than I ever did for my N64. On the N64, everyone bought the same games, the OoTs, the Mario 64s, the Goldeneyes. EVERYONE. On the GC, there's more diversity, so not everyone buys the same thing.
The most obvious reason is, during the N64 era, they produced only one or two big games per year, and the hype surrounding them would reach astronomical levels, thus boosting their sales significantly. The company is taking a different approach now, making more games per year, and perhaps selling less product per game as a result. An argument can also be made that people are either losing interest in Nintendo brands, or gaining interest in shooting things.
I'm buying a lot more third party releases, and Nintendo's own stuff has either disappointed me in some ways or just isn't what I would want. When the N64 was out, multiplayer was huge for me, but I haven't played multi on a GC in nearly two years. I just don't do it now, so I have little desire to pick up any multiplayer games. And with a lot of rather direct sequels from games this generation or last, there are chunks of Nintendo's portfolio that I don't feel like rushing out for.
soundwave05
Member
1.) GameCube has a lower userbase than the N64.
2.) The game's are good but not of "masterpiece" level IMO like they were on the N64. You don't "need" to have Super Mario Sunshine or Zelda: The Wind Waker the way you needed to have Super Mario 64 or Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
3.) No 2D to 3D "wow" factor this time.
4.) They made some controversial changes to almost all their main franchises. They probably would have been better off just making new franchises with these new ideas. Nintendo isn't creatively bankrupt. If anything they tried to innovate too much with Mario/Zelda/Metroid instead of just giving people the usual upgrades with more visual polish/production value.
5.) People are not willing to buy another console just for Nintendo games. Most people who bought the N64 thought it would end up being like the SNES/NES before it (lots of games/variety). So Nintendo has not done a good enough job in surrounding their core franchises with enough support.
2.) The game's are good but not of "masterpiece" level IMO like they were on the N64. You don't "need" to have Super Mario Sunshine or Zelda: The Wind Waker the way you needed to have Super Mario 64 or Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
3.) No 2D to 3D "wow" factor this time.
4.) They made some controversial changes to almost all their main franchises. They probably would have been better off just making new franchises with these new ideas. Nintendo isn't creatively bankrupt. If anything they tried to innovate too much with Mario/Zelda/Metroid instead of just giving people the usual upgrades with more visual polish/production value.
5.) People are not willing to buy another console just for Nintendo games. Most people who bought the N64 thought it would end up being like the SNES/NES before it (lots of games/variety). So Nintendo has not done a good enough job in surrounding their core franchises with enough support.
captainbiotch
Banned
soundwave05 said:
Agreed. Plus a poor launch lineup. The no must have Super Marios or Zeldas or Goldeneyes is the real dealbreaker.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
beerbelly said:
Unfortunately, this is very true.
I think the sad reality these days is that gaming isnt a "nerdy" thing anymore. Back when Nintendo was in its prime it was selling those main franchises of theirs to gamers. In 2004 the term gamer is a hell of alot more diverse than it was back then.
Basically what I mean is, the industry is making far more money than it has ever made before. Games like Def Jam and NBA Ballers and stuff appeal to people that back when Mario and Zelda were out never really appealed to them. While the new Nintendo game sales are okay, compared to what all this "New Blood" is buying is overpowering it too heavily.
Basically what I mean is, the industry is making far more money than it has ever made before. Games like Def Jam and NBA Ballers and stuff appeal to people that back when Mario and Zelda were out never really appealed to them. While the new Nintendo game sales are okay, compared to what all this "New Blood" is buying is overpowering it too heavily.
One simple reason is, Gamecube has less than half the userbase the N64 had.
Also, they screwed over some of their biggest game's potential sales.
-Metroid had no multiplayer and many people hated its controls.
-Zelda was cell shaded.
-Mario Sunshine had a HORRIBLE ad campaign and the name didn't help much either.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed all three of those games but Nintendo didn't do themselves any favors in terms of sales when it comes to them.
Also, they screwed over some of their biggest game's potential sales.
-Metroid had no multiplayer and many people hated its controls.
-Zelda was cell shaded.
-Mario Sunshine had a HORRIBLE ad campaign and the name didn't help much either.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed all three of those games but Nintendo didn't do themselves any favors in terms of sales when it comes to them.
soundwave05
Member
I think another factor is the "kids market" actually isn't as Nintendo crazy as we were as kids.
When I was a kid, if a new Mario came out, word would spread like wildfire, and you'd get 200 kids marching straight home demanding their parents shell out the cash. I don't really see that happening with my younger cousins.
It's funny that people rate Nintendo as the "kiddy" company, I think really their loyal fanbase is actually probably in their 20s.
I guess its sorta like how when I was a kid I really didn't like Walt Disney for Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck ... I liked them for The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, which were new properties.
When I was a kid, if a new Mario came out, word would spread like wildfire, and you'd get 200 kids marching straight home demanding their parents shell out the cash. I don't really see that happening with my younger cousins.
It's funny that people rate Nintendo as the "kiddy" company, I think really their loyal fanbase is actually probably in their 20s.
I guess its sorta like how when I was a kid I really didn't like Walt Disney for Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck ... I liked them for The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, which were new properties.
Donkeypuncher
Banned
Soundwave nailed it.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
this is what happens when anything goes mainstream. Mainstream = awful. There are reasons why crap music/movies/games sell when good ones don't.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally I chalk it up to smaller userbase and there being more actual games to choose from. I mean, Cruisin' USA sold a lot on the N64. Was it teh awesome? Hell no! There was nothing else to buy!
I just... can't buy this standard and pat explanation about how it's just that the games are all worse and aren't as "polished" as the N64 games. Taste in games may be subjective, but it just seems ludicrous - Super Mario Sunshine and Zelda: The Wind Waker are some of the most polished (in EVERY sense of the word) games I've ever played. The Metroid Prime games practically define polish. Even the "lesser" games are highly polished. Luigi's frickin' Mansion is more polished than most games from anyone else. The only real problem as I see it, is the shock-value of the 3D leap isn't there. But it's not like Nintendo can do anything about that... what, invent 5-dimensional games?
It seems the fans come up with all kinds of suspect sounding excuses that are just a bit too vague or capricous. The new games are in some way not as polished. They're too innovative and a water pack destroys Super Mario utterly and completely. They don't do anything new/they make too many new weird franchises and spin-offs (at the same time, apparently).
IMHO, I think the bottom line is a lot more practical and clearly visible in looking at public trends which can be demonstrated. More gamers and the mainstream are entranced by stuff like GTA today. The market is not the same; 7 years ago for all that the Playstation was taking off, it wasn't the monster mindshare lock it was today. Nintendo still had legions of people who owned the SNES waiting for the amazing new 3D Mario and Zelda.
Though personally, if it is indeed largely Nintendo making a bigger and more diverse line-up and selling somewhat fewer units per game due to it, I'm all for it. The N64 era was a vast disappointment for me - here was the amazingly creative Nintendo, and they only made a handful of titles, however good they were. So much they could have made, but never bothered. Regardless of public popularity, I still feel the Gamecube era has been handled a lot better with regards to 1st party software.
I just... can't buy this standard and pat explanation about how it's just that the games are all worse and aren't as "polished" as the N64 games. Taste in games may be subjective, but it just seems ludicrous - Super Mario Sunshine and Zelda: The Wind Waker are some of the most polished (in EVERY sense of the word) games I've ever played. The Metroid Prime games practically define polish. Even the "lesser" games are highly polished. Luigi's frickin' Mansion is more polished than most games from anyone else. The only real problem as I see it, is the shock-value of the 3D leap isn't there. But it's not like Nintendo can do anything about that... what, invent 5-dimensional games?
It seems the fans come up with all kinds of suspect sounding excuses that are just a bit too vague or capricous. The new games are in some way not as polished. They're too innovative and a water pack destroys Super Mario utterly and completely. They don't do anything new/they make too many new weird franchises and spin-offs (at the same time, apparently).
IMHO, I think the bottom line is a lot more practical and clearly visible in looking at public trends which can be demonstrated. More gamers and the mainstream are entranced by stuff like GTA today. The market is not the same; 7 years ago for all that the Playstation was taking off, it wasn't the monster mindshare lock it was today. Nintendo still had legions of people who owned the SNES waiting for the amazing new 3D Mario and Zelda.
Though personally, if it is indeed largely Nintendo making a bigger and more diverse line-up and selling somewhat fewer units per game due to it, I'm all for it. The N64 era was a vast disappointment for me - here was the amazingly creative Nintendo, and they only made a handful of titles, however good they were. So much they could have made, but never bothered. Regardless of public popularity, I still feel the Gamecube era has been handled a lot better with regards to 1st party software.
Casual consumers tiring of the Nintendo "brand" franchise extensions (Mario, Zelda).
Gamecube has only 15,000,000 consoles sold and only one and a half years left; as opposed to 30,000,000 overall for N64. Casual consumers have even less interest in Nintendo.
And soundwave05 said it best:
"People are not willing to buy another console just for Nintendo games. Most people who bought the N64 thought it would end up being like the SNES/NES before it (lots of games/variety). So Nintendo has not done a good enough job in surrounding their core franchises with enough support."
The third party support is atrocious, and the vast majority of casual consumers don't want to put their weight behind Nintendo franchise extensions if they don't have alternatives.
Gamecube has only 15,000,000 consoles sold and only one and a half years left; as opposed to 30,000,000 overall for N64. Casual consumers have even less interest in Nintendo.
And soundwave05 said it best:
"People are not willing to buy another console just for Nintendo games. Most people who bought the N64 thought it would end up being like the SNES/NES before it (lots of games/variety). So Nintendo has not done a good enough job in surrounding their core franchises with enough support."
The third party support is atrocious, and the vast majority of casual consumers don't want to put their weight behind Nintendo franchise extensions if they don't have alternatives.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Amir0x said:
goes back to LOZ WW. Chib Link doomed the GC. You know that. I know that.
^___ Link the GC doomer.
captainbiotch
Banned
A lot of the Nintendo games may be polished in graphics, presentation, sound, and whatnot but are lacking in mechanics, camera, objectives etc. As for third party support, I think Nintendo tried pretty hard to get it, but then messed it up with their lack of console selling ability, anti-online/connectivity philosophy, and some basic poor hardware decisions. They did a lot better in that regard than last gen at least. I do believe Iwata is wising up to these things, and has a pretty good chance of turning it around next generation. But who knows, I'm not a big fan of speculation 
ironichaos
Member
You sound pretty assured of something that has no tangible data to support it one way or the other. Although you do have some good insight and comments to offer now and then, your trolling of Nintendo threads is becoming quite irritating.
Didn't we just discuss the same exact thing here: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=25856? A new day on GAF, a new topic about Nintendo.
is it actually true that nintendo produces more gamecube games than they did n64 games? ead ninja had a list of ead's output some time ago, and that didn't seem to be the case. perhaps they're publishing more games by outside developers, but that doesn't explain the diminished quality and scope of their own console games.
and if mario 64 and ocarina of time felt impossibly new, most of nintendo's gamecube games feel five years old the day they come out. nintendo haven't discovered physics, ai, or narrative. their soundtracks are indifferent, and they're often unconcerned with visual style. that's not to say that games should all be modern -- my favorite games are still 2d shooters -- but it's still alarming how thoroughly regressive nintendo's current output is. it's as if they expended all their creative capital on mario 64. or as if the experience of developing those n64 games was so intense that it arrested their growth. i'm skirting around a phrase.
and if mario 64 and ocarina of time felt impossibly new, most of nintendo's gamecube games feel five years old the day they come out. nintendo haven't discovered physics, ai, or narrative. their soundtracks are indifferent, and they're often unconcerned with visual style. that's not to say that games should all be modern -- my favorite games are still 2d shooters -- but it's still alarming how thoroughly regressive nintendo's current output is. it's as if they expended all their creative capital on mario 64. or as if the experience of developing those n64 games was so intense that it arrested their growth. i'm skirting around a phrase.
Gaming has changed and has left Nintendo in the dust. They overworked Miyamoto on the N64, and they've done it again on the GC. Ignoring the stupid controller layout which makes most average games unplayable (overstatement, but it does make simple chores more laborious), the games just can't match the offerings from the 3rd party competition anymore. Games are much more complete and feature-rich these days. Nintendo needs to get with it. That said, there's still Wind Waker, but the other franchises seem to have gone down. Mario Sunshine is the worst game in the series IMO. Metroid Prime is mostly forgettable thanks to the controls, but also b/c it turned Metroid into an FPS. Kinda lame. Instead of just recycling the same characters over and over in different game scenarios, they need to create new franchises and adopt new game design concepts...like story. PEACE.
gamergirly
Member
TheGreenGiant said:goes back to LOZ WW. Chib Link doomed the GC. You know that. I know that.
^___ Link the GC doomer.
Over 3.5 million for what is widely viewed as a Zelda cartoon IS pretty good. It is over 3 times as much as what Fable sold. Just a small portion of what the 2005 Zelda game everybody wants will sell. Just look at it this way, if Wind Waker doomed the GC, Zelda 2005 will definitely save it
:lol
SantaC
Member
As someone said, the wow factor isn't there anymore. SMS and WW are still good games, but doesn't have the impact a new game had before.
This doesn't only apply to nintendo though, I think alot of games on Ps2 and xbox today are just more of the same, and just stale. The difference is that they do a better job marketing and hyping their games than Nintendo do.
This doesn't only apply to nintendo though, I think alot of games on Ps2 and xbox today are just more of the same, and just stale. The difference is that they do a better job marketing and hyping their games than Nintendo do.
FortNinety
Member
human5892 said:
I have to agree with this statement. Pretty much hit everything on the head perfectly.
drohne said:
I don't think I've ever seen anything I disagree with more. "Haven't discovered physics" They created realistic water for Super Mario Sunshine that responds to physical properties in a way it hasn't done in any other game.
"AI" - Name games with better AI. I dare you. NO ONE does good AI. Their AI is almost always suited to the gameplay at hand. Pikmin and its sequel being excellent examples of creating natural behaviors for enemies that allow the player to come up with multiple solutions to defeat them.
"Narrative" - Metroid Prime and its sequel. Eternal Darkness.
"soundtracks are indifferent" - Once again, Metroid Prime and its sequel.
"unconcerned with visual style" - Pikmin, Wind Waker and the Metroid games have more visual style in the first five seconds of gameplay than just about anything on other systems!
I think you're way off base. Either that or you're simply not playing Nintendo's Gamecube games anymore and you're just trolling. I'm thinking it's the latter...