You're missing some zeros there.
Why havent aliens landed yet on earth?
- Thread starter RustyNails
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You're missing some zeros there.
Clockwork5
Member
I would guess that it has something to do with the apparent impossibility of faster than light travel.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Can't survive the trip. Too long. 
RustyNails
Member
This is a good post and very curious perspective. Im gonna google those incidents.
Even the most pessimistic Drake Equation adds up to intelligent life elsewhere, but it doesn't solve the distance problem.
Breaking the laws of physics is not simply a matter of time and technological advancement before we figure it out. It has to be theoretically possibly before we can even start thinking about making it technologically possible, and that's the barrier that is looking insurmountable. It doesn't matter how smart you are, you can't overcome the impossible. Every experiment, every math theory, every shred of evidence is telling us that faster than light travel is not possible.
Of course we can keep trying, but if people are willing to accept that it might be possible, they should also be willing to accept that it might NOT be possible. Especially when everything we try is coming to the conclusion that it is indeed NOT possible. It's not being a pessimist or defeatist, it's being a realist.
I'm betting the odds are grossly in favor of humankind suffering a complete extinction event before we shake hands with an alien. It's not that we or they don't want to, it's because we can't.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Would you travel to some slums? If a race is so advance that it can travel space with ease, I doubt they'll bother with us.
Masquerader
Member
Maybe they just don't like us. To be fair, you'd be hard pressed to give an alien a positive, honest description of humanity.
MisterAnderson
Member
Because of the Fermi Paradox.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/the-fermi-paradox_b_5489415.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/the-fermi-paradox_b_5489415.html
DragonSworne
Banned
Only a human could think they could destroy the universe.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
I discount the idea that Aliens don't exist. The Universe is just too big for there not to be a planet that also had the ideal qualities for life.
So I see a few possibilities.
1) They have visited and may have been doing so for a long time.
2) FTL travel is impossible and we will never see Aliens.
3) They can't be bothered.
The idea that they couldn't find us seems foolish. We have the ability to recognise planets that may sustain life. A civilisation with FTL travel would surely have a more refined way to find CHZ's. Couple that with scanning for signs of civilisation, radio waves etc. and I'm sure they would find us were we of interest.
Even looking at our own planet, whilst the Dinosaurs were around for millions of years they didn't develop intelligence, but the changes in the earth that lead to their death also opened the way for mammals to thrive and thus become intelligent. Any similar aged planet could have seen mammals evolving millions of years earlier without the need to stay small and frightened due to other predatory animals. Imagine if the death of the dinosaurs occurred just 1 million years ealier, would our civilisation now be 1 million years further on? The idea that we are the first is just too arrogant and impossible in my opinion.
So I see a few possibilities.
1) They have visited and may have been doing so for a long time.
2) FTL travel is impossible and we will never see Aliens.
3) They can't be bothered.
The idea that they couldn't find us seems foolish. We have the ability to recognise planets that may sustain life. A civilisation with FTL travel would surely have a more refined way to find CHZ's. Couple that with scanning for signs of civilisation, radio waves etc. and I'm sure they would find us were we of interest.
Even looking at our own planet, whilst the Dinosaurs were around for millions of years they didn't develop intelligence, but the changes in the earth that lead to their death also opened the way for mammals to thrive and thus become intelligent. Any similar aged planet could have seen mammals evolving millions of years earlier without the need to stay small and frightened due to other predatory animals. Imagine if the death of the dinosaurs occurred just 1 million years ealier, would our civilisation now be 1 million years further on? The idea that we are the first is just too arrogant and impossible in my opinion.
Frosty Droid
Member
A little over a year ago io9 published an article titled, "11 of the Weirdest Solutions to the Fermi Paradox."
Launching a mission to explore the oceans of Europa for life could help give us an idea of whether or not The Great Filter is behind us.
Launching a mission to explore the oceans of Europa for life could help give us an idea of whether or not The Great Filter is behind us.
TOP SHOTTA
Member
Thank you and please do. Make your own conclusions, really. I have been interested in this topic - sort of as a back-burner gee-wiz kind of thing where I'd watch a documentary here and there - for awhile. But then about a year ago my interest piqued when I saw this and was awestruck, and read everything I could about it.
Then that led to testimony from other pilots and that was where I came across the Iran incident and again went nuts researching it online and watching every scratchy vhs-converted thing on YouTube I could find. That Tehran incident is authentic as far as I am concerned. And despite skeptics saying it was everything from a storm to a satellite deorbiting and crashing somewhere over the Atlantic... I can't fucking manage to be convinced this was anything but a real encounter. And I am a Skeptic's Guide to the Universe fan and everything, and a fan of skepticism in general and that one... fuck. To me, that happened. It doesn't indicate faster than light travel, it doesn't represent paradigm-breaking stuff in terms of science. It represented an encounter with superior technology, and what our machines act like when presented with such superior technology and mastery of an environment. We tried to fire at it, and couldn't. We tried to chase it, we couldn't. It didn't harm us. This was a physical encounter between manned machines (F4 Phantom's - the cream of the crop at the time) and unmanned machines with better instruction sets. But, to me it was again just a drone. But a drone sent from another intelligence, sent to study the planet and perhaps secondarily, us. It's very exciting to me, especially after my quest to be proven otherwise and couldn't. I LOVE that JAL 1628 story but even that one I could sort of be convinced was a well-choreographed story. The Tehran incident - fuck I'll go to my grave believing that was a real encounter.
For what it's worth, even Brian Dunning from Skeptoid doesn't exactly do a good job of debunking it. In fact he seems rather taken with this incident, ultimately not reaching a conclusion either way in that podcast episode...
We'd probably worship them ,and regard them as beings sent to us to save us.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Jesus was an Alien
Let's say a race did land and there was no panic, most people adjust fine. Holy shit some of the conspiracy will be annoying as fuck. We already have an annoying vocal minority who doubt the moon landings, imagine how many people will blame this race for all the woes in the world.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
The Prime Directive
texhnolyze
Banned
They think that it's not worth it to travel to Earth. It's depleted already.
Something I want to point out actually:
That isn't necessarily true. It links to a paper from 2007. However, there is a view now that the evolution from simple cell to complex cell may have only happened once. That's once in 3.6 billion years. It could very well be the Great Filter
http://www.newscientist.com/article...-probably-evolved-only-once.html#.VFbl0vmsVgh
Of course then you have to go from complex life to intelligent life, which in terms of us, has only happened once.
Edit: Actually it is talking about multicellular life specifically which happened later.
william_557
Member
ok with your blessing we will arrive in 3 days...
"Prime Directive" is one of the theories postulated for the Fermi Paradox. Something similar is the "Earth as a zoo" theory. Basically, they're watching us and making sure no one impedes our natural development.
A good analogy to use in my opinion would be the uncontacted Amazon tribes. If you don't know, there are still tribes of natives in the Amazon rain forest who have never, in all the centuries since colonization, contacted Europeans or anyone descended from Europeans. They're still completely unaware of modern global civilization and don't even have any immunity to our diseases. Currently governments have decided to just leave them alone.
The problem with this theory though is the actual ability for anyone to keep anyone else from contacting such civilizations if that is in fact what Earth is. The Amazon tribes have already had frequent and even violent encounters with people like illegal loggers. A single rule-breaker among the aliens is all it would take to shatter the "Prime Directive" theory.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I think that there are probably aliens since there are so many stars and galaxies. But maybe they're so far away that they haven't had anything that's reached us yet.
With robots and 3D printers, people could send out smart things out really far. Because robots could print out new robots using things from planets and even stars. The robots could even make galaxies into robotic places with copies of us. And we could have nonillions of us out in space.
But it would still take a long time because of how many billions of light years the universe is... there are probably aliens that can do this. But they haven't made it here yet...
With robots and 3D printers, people could send out smart things out really far. Because robots could print out new robots using things from planets and even stars. The robots could even make galaxies into robotic places with copies of us. And we could have nonillions of us out in space.
But it would still take a long time because of how many billions of light years the universe is... there are probably aliens that can do this. But they haven't made it here yet...
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I believe the Earth is fully prepared for steak.
We're not like an uncontacted tribe in a remote area though - we're sending signals out with the intent of contacting other species that may be out there. We have theorised their existence, and we'd like to meet them. We send out exploratory vessels to map our surroundings and hopefully find other life, eventually.
In Star Trek, the prime directive is dealt with in strange, inconsistent and sometimes immoral ways. For example, it is apparently against the directive to interfere with a species that is about to go extinct due to a preventable disease or natural disaster, just because the Federation believes that strongly in not interfering with natural development (and because they're fucking assholes). Once they develop warp drive, regardless of how socially advanced or socially backwards they are, it's now appropriate to contact them.
A species of slimy, greedy, treacherous bungholes who stole a warp drive off a crash-landed space ship? Give them an invitation to the Federation! A species of benevolent, culturally people exploring their solar system in STL spaceships trying to escape a natural disaster that is going to wipe them out? LET THEM BURN.
So fascinating to read.
TOP SHOTTA
Member
Yes, kind of embedded in your post is the idea that we are, as a planet, SCCRREEAAMMIINNG to be found. At least in terms of frequencies, science and methods we know about, we are very very noisy. If there was a Earth 4 - 100'ish light years away, we'd know a shit ton about them.
What if all the cool alien planets with life are all huddled away on the other side of the galaxy? Bad-ass aliens just chill and planet hop between local worlds. Maybe they have all the resources they need, or maybe they are busy fighting wars between themselves. Earth is some anomaly all alone in some shitty far removed corner that nobody cares about.
Also, what if the level of human intelligence is rare among planets with life. One of the only reasons why we're here is because mammals were given a chance to thrive and evolve after the last mass extinction. Up until then evolution was caught in an upward race to become bigger and stronger (not necessarily more intelligent). Or what if it simply takes a really, long, long, time for creatures to evolve to the point where they can split the atom, contemplate infinity, and listen to the new Run The Jewels album. Maybe we're the first ones to get this far, and it's up to us to visit them...
Honestly, there are more reasons why it hasn't happened yet than why it should have.
Also, what if the level of human intelligence is rare among planets with life. One of the only reasons why we're here is because mammals were given a chance to thrive and evolve after the last mass extinction. Up until then evolution was caught in an upward race to become bigger and stronger (not necessarily more intelligent). Or what if it simply takes a really, long, long, time for creatures to evolve to the point where they can split the atom, contemplate infinity, and listen to the new Run The Jewels album. Maybe we're the first ones to get this far, and it's up to us to visit them...
Honestly, there are more reasons why it hasn't happened yet than why it should have.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
As long as we don't cancel their favorite show they wont invade us!
this might be the first UFO sighting I've ever read about that can't just be easily dismissed by thinking about it or doing a small amount of research.
I think treating it as absolute proof of extraterrestrials visiting earth is a bit presumptuous, though. It could also be a series of implausible coincidences and staggering incompetence by all parties involved like that skeptoid article suggests. Both explanations are highly implausible, so I'd sooner chalk this one up as a genuine mystery than as proof of aliens or the incompetence of the Iran military in the seventies.
For this there are the "We haven't been broadcasting long enough," "We're not listening properly," and "They're just too alien" answers.
There may very well be no one listening within 100ly. It's also possible everyone else in the galaxy is using some kind of more advanced communication standard we just haven't figured out yet. Our instruments also might not be sensitive enough. I also think we've vastly underestimated how different alien life would be. They may not be able to clearly understand our communication at all.
I think it can.
First of all, there's the mention on the wikipedia page that the night of the sighting was the same night as a big meteor shower.
But aside from literal explanations for all of the things that people claim to have seen in that time, we have logic.
Logically, we know every human wants there to be something more to life.
People fill this desire with lots of beliefs that aren't true, but that they want to be true so badly that they will reject anything that doesn't confirm their beliefs, and will even fabricate memories/beliefs to prove to themselves that things are true.
So let's extend that to "UFO sightings". Everyone wants to believe in them. Everyone gets excited at the thought of aliens not only being 100% proven, but having actually visited us in some way. People get even more excited at the idea that "they were the ones to discover proof of aliens!".
But let's face it, "UFO" Sightings make very little to zero sense.
Let's just pretend for a minute that every "UFO sighting" is 100% real, and actually happened.
Why would an alien race send a flying object to Earth? Seriously. Try to find a single reason that holds up under scrutiny.
Possible reasons to send a (U)FO somewhere;
1.) To carry your own race to that location
This is just straight up obviously false. No alien has actually landed on Earth (at least not in recent history...though I don't believe that the pyramids are beyond explanation), so all of these "real" UFOs weren't carrying aliens to our planet.
2.) To gather information
This might seem reasonable if you don't think about it, but after thinking about it it makes no sense either.
First of all, if UFOs were here to gather information - what information could they get by just flying through Earth rapidly and disappearing before anybody could ever get a real photo or any kind of proof they were ever here? Realistically the only information a machine could take in by flying in illogical patterns at ridiculous speeds would be photos (assuming the motion blur wouldn't be an issue). And if they were taking photos, why would they fly in such ridiculous ways? Wouldn't they fly around the entire Earth in a calculated manner, taking photos of everything? And couldn't they just take photos from out in space? We can already take photos of Earth from in space, so why would an alien UFO need to actually enter Earth's atmosphere just to take photos?
What purpose would these photos serve to an alien race? If they have the capability to send spacecraft to Earth, they can send spacecraft to millions of other planets, too.
If they can go to millions of other planets, why would they come all the way here, to Earth, and then only take a few photos and then fly off?
And then, why would these craft be designed and programmed in such a way that they can be seen by the naked eye of animals, but yet they do not in any way shape or form seem to want to be seen (except for the fact they they supposedly can be seen, quite easily)?
3.) To communicate with us
The fact that all these "UFOs" are so easy to see that anybody can see them with their naked eye implies that they want to be seen. If they want to be seen, that must mean they're trying to communicate something to us. But, really now, if this alien race is so intelligent that they're sending spacecraft across the universe, don't you think they could communicate something more intelligent than "hey here's a really fast moving object that's only going to appear very briefly for a select few people to see, and then it will disappear without leaving any actual evidence it was ever here".
I really don't see any other possible reason why a UFO would visit Earth, at least not in the way these supposed UFOs have visited.
All UFO sightings in the end just come down to humans wanting to have seen a UFO in my opinion.
When you read witness testimonies, you never hear people say anything reasonable like "well, I saw something, and I don't know what it was. It seemed kind of different from anything I've ever seen before, but I'm not going to assume it was an alien device just because I don't personally know what it was".
Witness testimonies are always like "IT WAS 100% AN ALIEN AND I'M COMPLETELY SURE AND NOBODY CAN TELL ME THAT I DIDN'T SEE A UFO THAT DAY!!!". Ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but in witness testimonies it's always obvious that the people have already made up their minds 100% that they saw a UFO, which leads me to believe that aren't actually thinking realistically, and are just thinking what they want to believe is true. Why is it that the UFOs people "see" are always very similar to the ones people imagined in science fiction stories/movies/comics/etc.? Doesn't it seem likely that these sighting are as imaginary as the material they're based on?
In the end, why is it that nobody has ever, in any way shape or form, produced actual evidence of these UFOs? Why can nobody ever capture a photo, even though tons have "tried"? Why do none of these "UFOs" actually do anything, except for magically appear one day and the magically disappear? Why is it that every "UFO" story has as much credibility as a sighting of bigfoot or the lochness monster or werewolves?
Like I started off with, I want to believe aliens have visited Earth as much as anybody else. But I don't, because I know that humans are fallible, and are capable of completely believing things that are 100% made up, even things that they themselves made up. I also know that confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
So far out of all the "sighting" stories I've read I still haven't read any that actually make sense. Every one I've read so far has sounded like "person thinks they saw something cool - person assumes it was an alien device" or "multiple people might have seen something cool, some other people might have seen something else, somebody else says they saw it too, and all of a sudden the US government is involved (they must be hiding proof of aliens!)". Never have I read a story where there was actual, concrete evidence. All I've ever read about are series of coincidences and witness "testimonies".
So I can say that maybe for other people these stories hold up, but they do not hold up for me and I don't think they ever will.
that1dude24
Member
we're probably their descendants
Look, I'm not saying it was aliens but it was al--
no wait. I'm really not. I just think this is like the d.b. cooper case. Just like how no one has been able to credibly explain what the hell happened to him, doesn't mean he put two fingers on his forehead and teleported away. It just means no one has been able to explain what the hell happened. And I think this tehran story is the same. Like you said -- it's not actually proof of alien life because there isn't any concrete evidence. But, much like the D.B Cooper case, it is a mystery. You don't need to open your mind to occult woowoo to classify it as that, lol
I really do not want to sound arrogant here, but I hope you understand that your point of view left the field of critical thinking at the bolded part.
Confirmation bias is indeed strong. It is so strong that when a "skeptic" can say with a straight face that "I am right, you are wrong, every single UFO sighting has been either air balloons OR lies OR stupidity OR fabricated" , it shines through it. You already reached your conclusion by saying that it is pretty much impossible, and if stuff like "the whole town hallucinated it", "eh, it was meteor shower, and incompetence, and random loss of aircraft control, I guess" can be used as logical and sound....well, then there is a problem with biases, clearly.
UFO Skeptics have a checklist. You see, it HAS to be something.
- Meteor?
- Balloon?
- Just a US aircraft?
- Witnesses lying
- Witnesses dumb
- Witnesses hallucinating
- Witnesses wanting attention
- Witnessess mass hallucinating (if it is 100+, yeah, then 100+ witness hallucinating!)
- Error in equipment
- Coincidental error in multiple equipments
- A combination of all the above
Skeptics like that do not show an unbiased point of view. They already know that they have to reach the "it is false" state, and they use their own confirmation biases to pick their tools to help them "dismiss" it.
We could say with a straight face "there are many unexplained cases where we DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT WAS EXTRATERRESTRIAL OR SOMETHING ELSE". This is unbiased. Biased version is "nah, yeah, lack of evidence means evidence to IT NOT BEING TRUE.".
The moment the mass dismissals start happening is the moment it leaves the area of critical thinking and enters the realm of confirmation bias.
Gabotron ES
Member
No.
We really haven't been here for that long though. They might not even know we are here for another 1000 years, by which point we might all be dead.
It's possible that a billion years ago a survey craft flew past and went "do not want". But that race could be dead by now, or might have just consigned it to the rock pile not worth bothering with.
It's far more likely that earth has been visited at some point in its long history by some kind of alien (since the planet is so old) than it is that no intelligent life can exist in the entire universe because it hasn't said "hi" yet.
Ah yes I am.
Actually the number is estimated to be around 100-400 billion.
It comes to no surprise that advanced alien lifeforms have zero interest in our planet. Whatever they need/want can probably be found on "super earths" somewhere else.
Acrylic7
Member
Space is ridiculously huge. Also because who really knows.
Humans cant even get along with their neighbors without killing one another. Something 234567893456789034567898765432345667 lightyears away would most definitely not have any form of human ethics or morality. It would be Cowboys and Indians all over again multiplied by the actual distance between our worlds. So I'm kinda happy that we have yet to have visitors. If it ever does happen its not going to be like Mass Effect or Ben 10 ect. Shits going down no doubt. Just imagine trying to have a conversation with something completely unimaginable and think of how many things could go wrong. People; your own species, your own brothers will kill you over the most idiotic and pointless things. You could offend their entire galactic race just by smiling lol.
Humans cant even get along with their neighbors without killing one another. Something 234567893456789034567898765432345667 lightyears away would most definitely not have any form of human ethics or morality. It would be Cowboys and Indians all over again multiplied by the actual distance between our worlds. So I'm kinda happy that we have yet to have visitors. If it ever does happen its not going to be like Mass Effect or Ben 10 ect. Shits going down no doubt. Just imagine trying to have a conversation with something completely unimaginable and think of how many things could go wrong. People; your own species, your own brothers will kill you over the most idiotic and pointless things. You could offend their entire galactic race just by smiling lol.
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