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[Exclamation-One]

Queer is not your word.

As a white male, 'nigger' and 'nigga' are definitely not my words to use.

'That's our word, and you can't have it back' - Ice Cube on Bill Maher. He's exactly right.

But if an asexual person is not 'queer', and a polyamorous person is not queer, then we are not in this together.

What one, single word would be appropriate to encompass all forms of sexuality identity and expression that is not heteronormative?

 

[Poor GRIMES]

As a white male, 'nigger' and 'nigga' are definitely not my words to use.

'That's our word, and you can't have it back' - Ice Cube on Bill Maher. He's exactly right.

But if an asexual person is not 'queer', and a polyamorous person is not queer, then we are not in this together.

What one, single word would be appropriate to encompass all forms of sexuality identity and expression that is not heteronormative?

GSRM

 

[Exclamation-One]

GSRM

That's an acroynm, not a word. It's also not catchy.

And Winds of Winter is never coming out.

 

[purseowner]

Who gave LGBT folks exclusive rights to the word 'queer' ?

Good grief.

This thread is insane.

To clear up a few things:
- Only queer people get to define queerness
- Only asexuals get to define asexuality
- Asexuality has absolutely nothing to do with hormonal imbalances, simply a low sex drive, etc.

 

[.JayZii]

I assume the boring practical answer for this is that "LGBTQ" is already pushing the limits of utterable acronym-ism.

 

[Van Bur3n]

That's an acroynm, not a word. It's also not catchy.

And Winds of Winter is never coming out.

Just pronounce it "ges-rum". Catchy as fuck.

 

[soco]

What one, single word would be appropriate to encompass all forms of sexuality identity and expression that is not heteronormative?

Why would you want a single word? What value can you get from lumping them all together. This is part of the reason why so many groups have their own letters in LGBT+.

If you really need a single word: non-heteronormative.

 

[Xe4]

Heavens forbid we make the question common and casual in the same respect we ask for someone's name.

Besides, if you pay enough attention you can learn someone's pronouns super easy based on how others talk.

To be entirely fair, people fuck up others names all the time. Then they get corrected, apologize and move on with their day. It's how I feel it should be done with gender too. I never refer to a person using a personal pronoun when I'm talking to them anyhow. I always refer to them by their name when talking to them anyhow, with the exception of Mr./Mrs./Ms. when I'm speaking in a professional context.

The only times I've been corrected were when I was talking about the person around someone else.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

To be entirely fair, people fuck up others names all the time. Then they get corrected, apologize and move on with their day. It's how I feel it should be done with gender too. I never refer to a person using a personal pronoun, when I'm talking to them anyhow. It's always with their names.

The only times I've been corrected were when I was talking about the person around someone else.

Exactly, which only shows how much of a non-issue this really is.

Sure, there's that one chance of an asshole being an asshole about it but if that's the case you can just take it as that.

 

[Staccat0]

Not gonna lie, this thread is gonna make me google what queer means cuz boy oh boy would I have assumed everything was under that umbrella to a degree. Interesting.

 

[WonderzL]

As a white male, 'nigger' and 'nigga' are definitely not my words to use.

'That's our word, and you can't have it back' - Ice Cube on Bill Maher. He's exactly right.

But if an asexual person is not 'queer', and a polyamorous person is not queer, then we are not in this together.

What one, single word would be appropriate to encompass all forms of sexuality identity and expression that is not heteronormative?

There shouldn't be a single word because that would define everyone that isn't a heterosexual cisgender SOMETHING ELSE. And that's prejudice. That's otherness. That's segregation. I don't understand your need to label (a)sexuality and gender identity under one ENGLISH (out of thousands of languages) word.

 

[Exclamation-One]

There shouldn't be a single word because that would define everyone that isn't a heterosexual cisgender SOMETHING ELSE. And that's prejudice. That's otherness. That's segregation. I don't understand your need to label (a)sexuality and gender identity under one ENGLISH (out of thousands of languages) word.

I think I've outlined my reasons pretty well in my extensive posts above.

I don't believe it is segregation. Not at all. At the very least, it is not harmful segregation. It is inclusion for many, many people who are not 100% Vanilla. (And there's nothing wrong with being 100% Vanilla.)

In any case, I did some Googling and found out Dan Savage (of The Stranger and Savage Love fame) agrees with me:

Q: My husband and I have been married for 20 years, and we both also share our lives with additional partners. Rather than spend a lot of time dishing about who and how we love — and how fortunate we feel! — I'd like to get right to my plea for support.

I want freedom. I want the freedom in my life that I've always wanted for you, Dan: to be able to live and love and talk about your actual life without being afraid that it could cost you your job, your kids, your family. Having to live in the closet is difficult. I cannot say that it is as difficult for us as it is for someone who is LGBT.... *But* this isn't a contest about who suffers more.... The progress we have made together toward a more tolerant world for gay people gives me hope that we could be next.... So can we be added to the acronym, please? Perhaps we can honor the differences between our experience and the LGBT experience with an ampersand. What do you think of LGBT&P?

–Privately Polyamorous Person

A: You haven't been keeping up, PPP. We are no longer the LGBT community. We are the LGBTQLFTSQIA community, aka the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, leather/fetish, two-spirit, questioning, intersex, and asexual community/communities. I don't see why we can't slap a "P" onto the end of our acronym, so say it with me now: "I'm proud to be a member of the LGBTQLFTSQIAP community/communities!"

But I have to draw the line at the ampersand. Because if we give poly folks a punctuation mark, PPP, then soon everybody is gonna want a punctuation mark....

And why should poly folks be held at arm's length with an ampersand? Because most poly folks are straight? Lots of leather/fetish folks are straight, and they're covered in the acronym. Lots of trans men and trans women are straight, and they're covered. David Jay, founder of the Asexual Visibility and Education Network, "is in a romantic relationship with an asexual girlfriend and hopes to adopt a child," according to his Wiki page, and he's covered.... You're a sexual minority, too, and poly people sometimes face discrimination, bigotry, and oppression. So welcome to the club, PPP. Congrats!

And here's the best part of putting poly folks in the acronym: It brings us one step closer to seizing control of the entire alphabet. While religious conservatives are fighting a losing battle to "take back the rainbow" from the gays — a movement led by a fundamentalist preacher in Washington State — we've been making off with the alphabet one letter at a time....

I disagree with the alphabet soup, and believe that 'queer' encompasses everything that LGBTQLFTSQIA stands for.

If 'queer' is so verboten, what is a good, single word replacement for LGBTQLFTSQIA ?

 

[CrocMother]

If 'queer' is so verboten, what is a good, single word replacement for LGBTQLFTSQIA ?

Why not use GSM if it's too much for you. At the same time, don't devalue people who prefer to use LGBT+.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

If 'queer' is so verboten, what is a good, single word replacement for LGBTQLFTSQIA ?

Not saying I agree with that alphabet soup of yours but do you think if there was a word for it that people would use the alphabet soup acronym?

Think about it.

Not to mention that I'm not sure I'd put my complete faith on Dan Savage if I were you...

 

[Exclamation-One]

Not saying I agree with that alphabet soup of yours but do you think if there was a word for it that people would use the alphabet soup acronym?

Think about it.

Yes, I do. And I believe that if people adopted an easy, catchy label, we'd see much more acceptance in the US and throughout the world. I want Billy Bob Bumfuck (not -that- kind of Bumfuck!) in Alabama to realize he has common ground with his LGBT neighbors.

Here's an article that sums up my feelings much more eloquently than I ever could:

Heteronormativity promotes certain kinds of sex, relationships and families as ‘normal', ‘natural' and ‘acceptable'. Namely, it privileges monogamy, heterosexuality, sex between married partners, and sex for reproductive purposes.

Polyamory, queerness, transactional sex, sex between multiple partners, premarital and extramarital sex, and sex for recreational purposes are deemed to be deviant by heteronormativity.

Homonormativity, on the other hand, is the assimilation of queer people (especially homosexual people) into a heteronormative system without challenging the core ideas of heteronormativity.

Homonormativity is heteronormativity repackaged and tied up with an elaborate rainbow ribbon. It looks attractive, but once we start to unpack it, we realise it's the same toxic oppression we sought to remove in the first place.

The problem with homonormativity is that we're conforming to an oppressive system. Because of this, we end up reproducing the harmful idea that certain kinds of relationship are better and more acceptable than others.

Queers often assimilate to heteronormative ideals because we want the same kind of privilege that is afforded to straight people. We want to send out the message that we're just like straight people, except we're queer. We try to make ourselves seem more ‘normal', less ‘deviant', and more ‘acceptable'.

But instead of aiming for assimilation into a system, we should be challenging the system itself.

Rather than trying to make ourselves look more ‘acceptable' (in other words, conforming to the norm), we should be rejecting the norm in the first place.

Our queer spaces are ideal for the rejection and subversion of those norms. By offering compassionate acceptance to those who are non-monogamous, we can move towards dismantling the oppressive system that is imposed on us all.

Accepting non-monogamy as a valid relationship structure is important as it can help us unlearn the harmful messages most of us have been fed our entire lives.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/10/polyamorous-excluded-queer/

 

[Dude Abides]

This dude trying to act like he's part of a social justice movement because he wants to fuck multiple people at once.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

That moment when you just finished at the gym and see that we've know gone into the topic of homonormativity... I'll read through that once I have time

 

[Butterfly Witch]

I found another take

Yes, I do. And I believe that if people adopted an easy, catchy label, we'd see much more acceptance in the US and throughout the world. I want Billy Bob Bumfuck (not -that- kind of Bumfuck!) in Alabama to realize he has common ground with his LGBT neighbors.

Here's an article that sums up my feelings much more eloquently than I ever could:



http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/10/polyamorous-excluded-queer/

You mean other than the fact that we're both humans and we should be decent to other humans? If people can't connect on that level then you really think they're going to accept a label?

Also, that article doesn't support you in saying that poly is Queer because it's not.

Please, stop this power grab. You're queer because you're homoromantic, not because you're poly.

 

[Sai-kun]

sex work is...not queer

and neither is kink

This dude trying to act like he's part of a social justice movement because he wants to fuck multiple people at once.

dude: i wanna fuck like THREE girls at the same time and then have one smack my ass

also dude:

 

[Kase]

In any case, I did some Googling and found out Dan Savage (of The Stranger and Savage Love fame) agrees with me:


I disagree with the alphabet soup, and believe that 'queer' encompasses everything that LGBTQLFTSQIA stands for.

Well clearly he doesnt agree with you because he labels queer as a seperate from all the other titles.

Queer doesn't include leather. Leather is just leather fetish. Being a sexual minority and being queer is not entirely the same thing. Being a sexual minority encompasses sexual pratices that are not praticed by the majority. Whereas being queer does not indicate your sexual pratices (you may be queer but abstain from sex), but rather your identity.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Yes, I do. And I believe that if people adopted an easy, catchy label, we'd see much more acceptance in the US and throughout the world. I want Billy Bob Bumfuck (not -that- kind of Bumfuck!) in Alabama to realize he has common ground with his LGBT neighbors.

Here's an article that sums up my feelings much more eloquently than I ever could:



http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/10/polyamorous-excluded-queer/

I sped read through this and she didn't say anything about equating polyamory to overall LGBT+ queer spaces, just that the derision and stereotypes from homonormative spaces is counter-intuitive to the overall messaging of the movement. She's advocating for inclusitivity and acceptance into queer spaces while also not explicitly self-identifying as such.

 

[Exclamation-One]

This dude trying to act like he's part of a social justice movement because he wants to fuck multiple people at once.

Correction: I do and have fucked other people simultaneously, yes.

But it's not about getting it on as much as being able to share intimacy with other people in an open, understanding environment. It doesn't always involve sex, and more often than not, it doesn't.

Are you honestly trying to say that poly folks aren't subject to discrimination??

Well clearly he doesnt agree with you because he labels queer as a seperate from all the other titles.

Queer is also separate from Gay, Lesbian, Trans, and Bi.

 

[Butterfly Witch]

Correction: I do and have fucked other people simultaneously, yes.

But it's not about getting it on as much as being able to share intimacy with other people in an open, understanding environment. It doesn't always involve sex, and more often than not, it doesn't.

Are you honestly trying to say that poly folks aren't subject to discrimination??



Queer is also separate from Gay, Lesbian, Trans, and Bi.

 

[ascii42]

I like the idea, but I think it falls short. What if I create a painting or write a song (or a crown of sonnets) in the hope that someone will reproduce with me?

 

[Haly]

I like the idea, but I think it falls short. What if I create a painting or write a song (or a crown of sonnets) in the hope that someone will reproduce with me?

That makes you this little trooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PID91sEW8

 

[Exclamation-One]

Sai-kun, clearly.

 

[Kase]

This dude trying to act like he's part of a social justice movement because he wants to fuck multiple people at once.

sex work is...not queer

and neither is kink

Queer is also separate from Gay, Lesbian, Trans, and Bi.

Because it's an umbrella term for us non-heterosexual and/or cisgender people. Not for kinks or poly loving heterosexuals. Nobody who had practised kink or poly with their cis opposite sex partner has been called queer in the history I've known.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I've never heard Q as Questioning (which very much seems like a different meaning than Queer so I don't really think they're interchangeable), but that's how it was explained to me at an event at the latest pride festival here in Amsterdam, since I didn't know exactly what Queer meant.

Of course, it's important to keep in mind that there's no 'official' version, as this gets adapted and adjusted all the time by different communities all over the world. But the way it was explained to me was that Queer is everything outside of cisnormative. Which technically would also encompass the LGBT part of the equation of course.

In the end, many different groups there use different terms on their boats/stands/flags/whatever. In theory everyone is represented no matter what you use, just pick one you feel comfortable with and describes you. So to the OP, there's no 1 true way of saying it, but there are options where asexuality is explicitly included.



Is that a widely used thing? I would think Uncommon is a very weird word to use, as the message is usually that all these sexual orientations are actually very common and should be considered normal. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

The queer/questioning isn't for them being the same or similar but to not have double Q's far as I know.

 

[Dude Abides]

Correction: I do and have fucked other people simultaneously, yes.

But it's not about getting it on as much as being able to share intimacy with other people in an open, understanding environment. It doesn't always involve sex, and more often than not, it doesn't.

Are you honestly trying to say that poly folks aren't subject to discrimination??

I'm trying to say you should form a coalition with plural marriage Mormons instead of trying to force your way into a movement that has and wants nothing to do with you.

 

[rashbeep]

This dude trying to act like he's part of a social justice movement because he wants to fuck multiple people at once.

lol

 

[Butterfly Witch]

Sai-kun, clearly.

No one is saying poly people don't suffer discrimination.

Suffering discrimination however is not the qualifier to define yourself as queer, otherwise we need to add folks with mental illness and disabled folk of all kinds as well.

It doesn't make sense

 

[Exclamation-One]

Ah-ha!

I think I've hit up on my word. 'Common.'

Heteronormative is, well... 'normal.' Vanilla sex, procreation, male/female couplings, yay!

Common - everything else under the sun. All the colors of the rainbow. Except, obviously, where children, animals, inanimate objects, and non-consensual sex is concerned - that would be perverse, illegal, immoral... etc.

If a poly person cannot be accepted under the umbrella of 'queer,' can we agree that a gay man, an asexual woman, a poly woman and and a m->f transgender can all be accepted as 'common' ?

That makes you this little trooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PID91sEW8

Not art. 2/10. Would not buy.

I'm trying to say you should form a coalition with plural marriage Mormons instead of trying to force your way into a movement that has and wants nothing to do with you.

Fuck off kindly.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Are you honestly trying to say that poly folks aren't subject to discrimination??

People who date interracially are subject to discrimination. That doesn't mean that people who date outside their race are queer.

 

[excelsiorlef]

.

Do whatever you want just stop appropriating shit that isn't yours.

Oh and don't shit on our acronyms and call for them to be destroyed

 

[Sai-kun]

just accept that your wanting to fuck a bunch of people doesn't make you queer lmfao

like

just deal with it

 

[Kase]

Ah-ha!

I think I've hit up on my word. 'Common.'

Heteronormative is, well... 'normal.' Vanilla sex, procreation, male/female couplings, yay!

Common - everything else under the sun. All the colors of the rainbow. Except, obviously, where children, animals, inanimate objects, and non-consensual sex is concerned - that would be perverse, illegal, immoral... etc.

If a poly person cannot be accepted under the umbrella of 'queer,' can we agree that a gay man, an asexual woman, a poly woman and and a m->f transgender can all be accepted as 'common' ?

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Dude Abides]

Fuck off kindly.

Should people who fuck off also be entitled to call themselves queer?

You're like someone with tattoos claiming to be black because "we both are judged based on our skin." Take the hint.

 

[Sai-kun]

Should people who fuck off also be entitled to call themselves queer?

only if they're kindly doing so, otherwise they're common

 

[Exclamation-One]

Go troll somewhere else.

I'm dead serious. Homoromantic, as Butterfly Witch puts it, would put me under the LGBT+ umbrella under 'queer.' I'm fine with that.

That said, I personally feel being poly and desiring open, honest intimacy with multiple partners (that sometimes, but does not always, involve sex) qualifies one as 'queer.' Others disagree, fine. We're not gonna get anywhere here.

But I have a specific beef with the alphabet soup precisely because it is so divisive.

And I have a specific beef with many of the attitudes expressed in this thread - watching my partner enjoying herself with another man, in a loving way, is not simply wanting 'to fuck lots of girls DUDEZ *brofist*" bullshit that several people here are making it out to be.

I honestly do feel I'm being discriminated against, right here, right now.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm dead serious. Heteroromantic, as Butterfly Witch puts it, would put me under the LGBT+ umbrella under 'queer.' I'm fine with that.

That said, I personally feel being poly and desiring open, honest intimacy with multiple partners (that sometimes, but does not always, involve sex) qualifies one as 'queer.' Others disagree, fine. We're not gonna get anywhere here.

But I have a specific beef with the alphabet soup precisely because it is so divisive.

And I have a specific beef with many of the attitudes expressed in this thread - watching my partner enjoying herself with another man, in a loving way, is not simply wanting 'to fuck lots of girls DUDEZ *brofist*" bullshit that several people here are making it out to be.

I honestly do feel I'm being discriminated against, right here, right now.

This thread is just an excuse to tell everyone your sex life isn't it?

 

[Kase]

And I have a specific beef with many of the attitudes expressed in this thread - watching my partner enjoying herself with another man, in a loving way, is not simply wanting 'to fuck lots of girls DUDEZ *brofist*" bullshit that several people here are making it out to be.

I honestly do feel I'm being discriminated against, right here, right now.

And we feel insulted because you would equate watching your partner enjoy herself with another man, as the same as the centuries of struggles we as queer people have had being persecuted, discrimated and murdered. Hope you're having fun watching her being fucked while we try and fight for our rights as human beings.

 

[Exclamation-One]

And we feel insulted because you would equate identifying as asexual, and completely abstaining from sex because you literally have no interest in it whatsoever, as the same as the centuries of struggles we as queer people have had being persecuted, discrimated and murdered. Hope you're having fun explaining to friends and relatives that you are happy not being with a partner physically while we try and fight for our rights as human beings.

There it is.

 

[excelsiorlef]

There it is.

Yo dude you can't just replace words and go QED

That's not how any of this works.

 

[Banglish]

Because there is no oppression that comes with being asexual. At worst, people are confused about it or don't undestand it. No one's going to assault or fire you for not feeling sexually attraction to anyone.

I mean even so, asexuality is seen as something "other" so in all fairness it's probably aight to include it.

 

[Kase]

There it is.

So you can only resort to putting words in my mouth now?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Exclamation-One
Banned
(Today, 11:04 PM)

Welp

 

[Apzu]

You can somehow pinpoint exactly when the topic got derailed by searching for the term "asexual" in every page. It goes something like this:

Sorry for such a horrible graphic, I was in a hurry to prove a point.

Ah-ha!

I think I've hit up on my word. 'Common.'

Heteronormative is, well... 'normal.' Vanilla sex, procreation, male/female couplings, yay!

Common - everything else under the sun. All the colors of the rainbow. Except, obviously, where children, animals, inanimate objects, and non-consensual sex is concerned - that would be perverse, illegal, immoral... etc.

If a poly person cannot be accepted under the umbrella of 'queer,' can we agree that a gay man, an asexual woman, a poly woman and and a m->f transgender can all be accepted as 'common' ?



http://i.imgur.com/OEtodSK.jpg[/IMG

Not art. 2/10. Would not buy.



Fuck off kindly.[/QUOTE]
First of all, no. That fish did a really good job there, I'd buy it.

Second of all, you don't really want "common" as an all encompasing word. The first thing heteronormativity would do is claim you are calling them "uncommon" and then they would stop listening because you are being offensive. Also Billy Bungidity Bung Pakipakistanstan would not suddenly have a moment of clarity and respect everyone just because everyone is a commoner like him, he would end up creating a system where some commoners were more common than others. The problem is not a semantic one, a word by itself won't solve everyone's problem. If a word could have such power, the word human would probably be enough and yet humans do horrendous things to one another.

 

[Alienfan]

And we feel insulted because you would equate watching your partner enjoy herself with another man, as the same as the centuries of struggles we as queer people have had being persecuted, discrimated and murdered. Hope you're having fun watching her being fucked while we try and fight for our rights as human beings.

I agree, but if asexual is included shouldn't polyamory be included too?

 

[Misha]

Okay, how's about:

Asexuality and Ace Spectrum |OT| Have Our Cake And Eat It

When you make it could you post a link here? I'm already subbed to this thread so it would make it easier to find, thanks

 

[Aarglefarg]

I agree, but if asexual is included shouldn't polyamory be included too?

People who are cisgender, non-intersex, heterosexual and heteroromantic (all four together) aren't included. That means aces are included, for being ace. Many people who happen to be poly are included too...but not for being poly. So it doesn't get queer or initialism status.

It doesn't mean I wouldn't argue for being allies to other non-queer sexual minorities.