Why Men_in_Boxes is wrong about Marathon...

Valid thesis?

  • Yes.

  • Possibly.

  • No.

Results are only viewable after voting.
I signed up for the alpha. If I get picked, I'll give Bungie the benefit of the doubt and try it. As of now, I'm not sold on it.

This really should have been Destiny 3. Wish they'd get around to giving the OG Destiny game a current gen remaster and PC release as well and maybe consider incorporating all the D2 content into it
and then go from there.
 
Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes I watched the section of the YouTube video in your OP and it gave me an even worse impression of this game that I had already. I don't play this type of game so I wasn't going to play Marathon. But I wasn't familiar enough with the genre to know they wipe your progress at the end of every season and everyone starts from zero the next season. That's....wow...I don't think I could be any more turned off by a game mechanic than that.

I hope this game doesn't fail hard because a lot of people are going to get laid off if it does. But it also feels like the decision makers have set the team up for failure.
 
Thank you mods for the thread title change lol

I mean, it way too early to tell, man. Maybe when an open beta comes up we can go a little deeper, but right now, discussing about it beyond aesthetics or price model is just nonsense.
 
bender said:
We have a title edit. I repeat, we have a title edit.
Click to expand...
Me bumping this thread in December...
5SQP.gif


(Someone put my Marathon avatar on McGregors face)
 
Last edited:
Zacfoldor said:
That said, the Playstation online community controls the zeitgeist and gaas ain't it right now. Even free this is gonna be a hard sell for even those with open minds and a flat out disinterest from the majority. Maybe it will find an audience on pc but they are a fickle bunch too.
Click to expand...
The most popular games on PlayStation are GaaS. Do you think 75m people bought a $500 console to play Astro Bot?
 
The Men in Boxes key to success
1FaJPie.jpeg


Anyway, the fact a concept like "let's farm ammo" is a thing in these games is part of the reason I have zero interest in this genre.
 
MiguelItUp said:
Marathon was never one of THOSE IPs, and while I think the new iteration will definitely bring more attention to the IP I still don't think it'll be anywhere near THOSE big name IPs.

The criticism I've heard sounds completely valid and believable. People say the game is fun and they enjoyed their time with it, "But....", and everything that comes after "but" makes sense. I've seen people try to say that the people the feedback has come from are negative creators, baiting, etc. But, I can't help but disagree. There's a bit difference between the folks I've seen, and a standard click baiting content creator/streamer.

It just leaves me in a spot where I just need to check it out for myself to see how I feel about it. I get that Bungie is excited about Ranked and the 4th map, but until we see what's so exciting, everything about the gameplay looks and sounds pretty standard. Aside from the art style, universe, and aesthetic.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.

The open beta will be a defining factor. The reaction to it will show if it will have a great or poor launch.

I think the most important parts are the main concerns mentioned by SkillUp (which I think sums up the main concerns from pretty much most people who shared their thoughts):
1- pricing
2- the 'hook'

Pricing will be the lesser issue of the two. If the quality is there, it won't be of much concern.

The 'hook' is key, though. Personally, I think the 'hook' will likely be the gameplay-loop, rather than some extremely original concept.
Live-service games will evolve over time, so most important is to nail the gunplay and gameplay-loop right out of the gate.
 
Last edited:
I've seen this before... :messenger_tears_of_joy:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-concord-can-theoretically-succeed.1671207/
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/conc...t-ive-heard-exactly-0-people-mention.1674467/
Men_in_Boxes

Thread 'Concord - What's the market potential for this game?'

We did this with Helldivers 2 and the results were interesting. 65% of NeoGAF (including me) got Helldivers 2 wrong. (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/helldivers-ii-whats-the-market-potential-for-this-game.1658957/) Let's try it with Concord...



Concord is a 5v5 Hero Shooter developed by Firewalk Studios, releasing on August 23rd, 2024. Here's some similar games in the genre that may help you gage your predictions a little better.

GAME...............................HEALTHIEST MONTH..........................HONEYMOON PERIOD.........................LAST 6 MONTHS...
  • Like

Men_in_Boxes

Thread 'Fellow Concordians, what mode do you find yourself playing more?'

BRAWL - Takedown, Trophy Hunt (Respawns)

RIVALRY - Cargo Run, Clash Point (no - respawn)



This is madness as the game was obviously designed around RIVALRY first. BRAWL is for warmup.
  • LOL
  • Love
 
rm082e said:
But I wasn't familiar enough with the genre to know they wipe your progress at the end of every season and everyone starts from zero the next season. That's....wow...I don't think I could be any more turned off by a game mechanic than that.
Click to expand...
Yr progress can be wiped within three rounds where some max geared giga chads just wipe the floor with you and yr team...and you are back to ZERO! ;) The seasonal wipe isnt the problem. The problem is when you want to play this game in the middle of a season and everyone and their mother is geared out and just roflstomp you. So either you are there at the beginning of a season or just play something else. If there is some "ranked" matchmaking this might reduce the problem....but, as usual, it also reduces the whole concept of the progression system. If you cannot have an edge over yr opponent...why even gearing up...whats the point?

I always thought this whole game concept is targeting some small hardcore audience (who usually isnt much into "fancy" art design). But it might work on the consoles as there isnt really much of these games.
 
Wait, so this "real progression" you've been going on about is just the typical progression that exists in all of these shooters, just spread over multiple maps instead of one? I mean, wow.
 
Don't really understand the insistence on paid premium title for this kind of games, it's much harder to attract and maintain playerbase than f2p and playerbase is pivotal for such games

As a concept itself - it's good old full loot PvP as in Ultima Online, adjusted for current era. Some will find thrill in it but I am already too old for this shit
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
Wait, so this "real progression" you've been going on about is just the typical progression that exists in all of these shooters, just spread over multiple maps instead of one? I mean, wow.
Click to expand...
Full loot is completely different - you keep your progression as long as you not die
Completely different experience and approach, tactics and resource management included - you ultimately has control on what to bet on the risk, the more you bet the higher chance to win and higher losses if you fail
 
Last edited:
3 small maps. And the final map coming later is supposed to be an indoors map only. So the last one on a moonbase or spaceship will basically be a corridor shooter.
 
rm082e said:
Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes I watched the section of the YouTube video in your OP and it gave me an even worse impression of this game that I had already. I don't play this type of game so I wasn't going to play Marathon. But I wasn't familiar enough with the genre to know they wipe your progress at the end of every season and everyone starts from zero the next season. That's....wow...I don't think I could be any more turned off by a game mechanic than that.

I hope this game doesn't fail hard because a lot of people are going to get laid off if it does. But it also feels like the decision makers have set the team up for failure.
Click to expand...
They have seasonal wipes in in Extraction Shooters and to an extent in most ARPG's. It's an accepted mechanic.
 
Felessan said:
Full loot is completely different - you keep your progression as long as you not die
Completely different experience and approach, tactics and resource management included - you ultimately has control on what to bet on the risk, the more you bet the higher chance to win and higher losses if you fail
Click to expand...

Yes, the same as any other extraction shooter.
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
Yes, the same as any other extraction shooter.
Click to expand...
True.

The important distinction here is twofold.

This is the first ever AAA PvP game with long term progression.

Bungie believes it has a solve for the end game issues previously thought "inherent" to the genre.

This thing is the NASA space race in 1969.
 
clarky said:
They have seasonal wipes in in Extraction Shooters and to an extent in most ARPG's. It's an accepted mechanic.
Click to expand...
To be fair, in diablo they have the eternal realm where you can still build up your characters but just don't have the current season's borrowed power.

That said, for me at least, the eternal realm isn't really the real game, it's a museum for your old toons, so I agree with you. Even wow would always make your old gear worthless when a new tier or especially a new xpak came out.

It's pretty horse shit though. One of the main reasons many people hate GAAS. The loot treadmill never ends. Also one of the reasons I enjoy D2 because you do get to keep your exotics and can kinda built your account outside of the seasonal progression.

Yeah, if this is another stupid seasonal gaas I'll be greatly shocked it if isn't a big flop. They don't want you to have progression that lasts too long. Keeping that catharsis from me is a big reason to avoid these types of games. In games like these most of your progress is usually only a very short time away from being thrown out by the game. What a waste of time, honestly. It has to be the best game ever for me to play shit like this.
 
Last edited:
Chuck Berry said:
Seriously, why the hell do you care so much about this?
Click to expand...
The Playstation faithful have always loved GaaS Extraction Shooters. It's kinda their thing. Sony is just giving them more of what they love.
Men_in_Boxes said:
Bungie believes in the power of social gaming.
Click to expand...
In this is the case, why did they cut the most vital part of social gaming, verbal communication? How are people going to help each other solve these puzzles when they're not allowed to speak to each other? Big elementary school librarian energy.
 
The problem I have isn't the visuals (I welcome crazy art designs sometimes). I have more of a problem with spending time on a game that falls off fast.
 
Zacfoldor said:
To be fair, in diablo they have the eternal realm where you can still build up your characters but just don't have the current season's borrowed power.

That said, for me at least, the eternal realm isn't really the real game, it's a museum for your old toons, so I agree with you. Even wow would always make your old gear worthless when a new tier or especially a new xpak came out.

It's pretty horse shit though. One of the main reasons many people hate GAAS. The loot treadmill never ends.

Yeah, if this is another stupid seasonal gaas I'll be greatly shocked it if isn't a big flop. They don't want you to have progression that lasts too long. Keeping that catharsis from me is a big reason to avoid these types of games. In games like these most of your progress is usually only a very short time away from being thrown out by the game. What a waste of time, honestly. It has to be the best game ever for me to play shit like this.
Click to expand...
It's more to stop the economy from ballooning as the zones are basically an infinite source of wealth in these games. You'd have the top 10% of all players owning 99% of all the loot and resources if you didn't reset it once in a while. It's not perfect and I don't think there's ever been a better solution.
 
I appreciate that you genuinely seem to care about live service games for whatever reason, but in my opinion you are doing so much damage to the perception of them by creating these insane/stupid threads. Nobody on Neogaf is going to want to play this game by the time it releases when you shit out 8 threads about it per week and annoy everybody. Seems like you're just circumventing the "Ignore Thread" mechanic by posting a new thread for every new thought.

I don't know if you run a marketing account or what, but this isn't the way to get people onto your side about it.

In other words:
Chill Relax GIF
 
simpatico said:
In this is the case, why did they cut the most vital part of social gaming, verbal communication? How are people going to help each other solve these puzzles when they're not allowed to speak to each other? Big elementary school librarian energy.
Click to expand...
Your perspective on what social gaming is doesn't make sense.

This is a team oriented game in which you and 2 other people work together to solve difficult objectives. This will be accomplished through conversation.

That's...social.

Social gaming doesn't require you to hear the voices of other teams.
 
DryvBy said:
The problem I have isn't the visuals (I welcome crazy art designs sometimes). I have more of a problem with spending time on a game that falls off fast.
Click to expand...
If the game falls of fast as you put it then it probably wasn't worth engaging with it long term anyway. The way I see it is if its $40 then I'll at least get 50 hours out of it to see what's what. More than I get out of most one and done games.

I think it'll get a year at least even if it falls flat on its arse, because it'll be strong out of the gates for sure.
 
clarky said:
It's more to stop the economy from ballooning as the zones are basically an infinite source of wealth in these games. You'd have the top 10% of all players owning 99% of all the loot and resources if you didn't reset it once in a while. It's not perfect and I don't think there's ever been a better solution.
Click to expand...
I hear the complaint a lot, and I used to empathize with it more before I realized all multiplayer games "reset". Valorant resets the player after they win 11 rounds. Fortnite resets the player afree they're killed or they win.

So now when I hear "Oh people aren't going to like it when progress is reset every 3 months" I interpret it as them not really grasping multiplayer.

Still not a perfect system like you say, but for me, it's pretty palatable.

DenchDeckard said:
I know it's kinda funny to laugh at Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes for his love of gaas

But, genuinely he is being a classic nerd who loves his thing (video games) and I think he likes to geek out discussing on his favourite forum...

I kinda dig it. Its not harming anyone.
Click to expand...
you-get-me-happy-tears.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Marathon news is coming next week
News  2
63
2K
bighugeguns replied
Why is nobody talk about the portables war?
2 3
102
4K
GigaBowser replied
  • Poll
Marathon or ARC Raiders? [POLL]
2
53
1K
GymWolf replied
Marathon is about losing all your gear but still having a great time because you 'come out with a good story'
2 3
121
5K
ChoosableOne replied
Marathon 'rounds' will be 25 minutes
1
418
Killjoy-NL replied
Top Bottom