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[petran79]

I resent the term "Hardcore Gamer" being code for "I can't enjoy a game unless it is an example of the absolute bleeding edge in technology."

I simply don't care about chasing better graphics at greater expense.

Being a PC gamer doesn't make you a shallow, eye-candy obsessed gamer. There are plenty of other reasons to be a PC gamer. And of course there's nothing wrong with enjoying visual fidelity and wanting to get as much as possible.

But why on earth would having an expensive, exquisitely self-assembled gaming PC mean that you're more of a "Hardcore Gamer" than a console player? That doesn't make you a "Hardcore Gamer", it makes you a "Hardcore Technology Purchaser and Assembler".

It has nothing to do with the act of actually gaming. Because after you've got all your stuff together, in the end, you still have to sit on your ass and hammer inputs just like everyone else. And that's what gaming actually is.

Being hardcore doesn't mean having a specific opinion on what is moral for gaming companies to implement in their products. It just means playing a lot of games and keeping up with gaming news. Your views on said news and your platform of choice has nothing to do with it.

What this thread should be titled is:

"Why the PC should become the home base for every hardcore gamer with adequate disposable income who wants to own the most powerful gaming platform and disagrees with the way the policies and projected policies of the console market."

there are also console players who are more hardcore collectors than actual gamers.
there are also console players who mod their console with custom firmware for various reasons.

a hardcore gamer is also one who also plays a MMORPG all day.

Best post.

Consoles dont have Japanese visual novels though. too exquisite for their tastes in the Western market.....

 

[Imp the Dimp]

First post was a fucking letdown.

 

[MaLDo]

Driver updates aren't even mandatory.
But let's face it, people who claim to waste a lot of time with driver updates and so on most likely don't have any familiarity with the PC environment and are probably just going for one of the most popular strawmen to dismiss the platform.

In my windows 7 I don't even have to restart the pc when I install new drivers. A black flicker and that's all. The only problem is you have to re-tell windows your custom resolutions for downsampling. Not a big problem

 

[Zweisy1]

I definitely prefer pc gaming these days. The PC market just seems more friendly for interesting niche games. There's been a lot of good games on both PSN and XBLA over the years but PC gets far more good smaller scale indie games.. Not to mention more niche genres like adventure games and dungeon crawlers that consoles seem to get barely any of. Things like Book of Unwritten Tales and Legend of Grimrock are some of the best games I've played in recent years.

 

[Bumhead]

Driver updates aren't even mandatory.
But let's face it, people who claim to waste a lot of time with driver updates and so on most likely don't have any familiarity with the PC environment and are probably just going for one of the most popular strawmen to dismiss the platform.

100% agree.

There are a LOT of posts in this thread which read like a bingo card of cliches or outdated opinion on todays PC gaming.

 

[PARANO1A]

I really want a living room PC for gaming that is primarily controller based. Unfortunately the cost for anything not awful looks more expensive than all three current machines combined. Anything that's not designed for large, loud towers seems to double or triple the cost of entry.

I'm hoping Valve fix this with Steambox, or at least encourages a better market of small, reasonably powerful, quiet machines. I'm already buying Steam games that will give me a great day one library.

 

[alexandros]

Driver updates aren't even mandatory.
But let's face it, people who claim to waste a lot of time with driver updates and so on most likely don't have any familiarity with the PC environment and are probably just going for one of the most popular strawmen to dismiss the platform.

Agreed!

I'm hoping Valve fix this with Steambox, or at least encourages a better market of small, reasonably powerful, quiet machines. I'm already buying Steam games that will give me a great day one library.

The Steambox is (supposedly) targeted at people who want a taste of PC gaming without all the hassle, so if everything goes according to plan it should be right up your alley. As I said before, the lack of a "turnkey solution" (as Newell put it) really is the last barrier for PC gaming's mainstream appeal. Fingers crossed!

 

[nbthedude]

I really want a living room PC for gaming that is primarily controller based. Unfortunately the cost for anything not awful looks more expensive than all three current machines combined. Anything that's not designed for large, loud towers seems to double or triple the cost of entry.

Actually Neogaf's mckenyon, has a pretty great guide to building a small form PC on a budget:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42660100&postcount=195

Check out his "enhanced" builds. Those itty bitty BitFenix Prodigy cases are cute.

 

[Pro]

I don't think I've ever seen an article or thread that takes non-bullshot console shots, and provides basic PC settings to replicate the same quality level on today's mid-level PC hardware.

I think it'd make for some surprises. PC's have some disadvantages compared to consoles when it comes to overhead, bandwidth and lack of optimizations. Didn't Carmack say he had a tougher time getting Rage to run 60fps solid on mid-level PCs than the two HD consoles?

These PC images can easily be run on a mid-level PC and they not only replicate the console version but enhance it greatly.

 

[Calvarok]

I never understood that notion. If you want a better-looking version, spend more money and you'll get it. There is no meaningful difference between a PC game having multiple graphics options and a console game being released for both current-gen and next-gen systems. If you have a PS3 and you buy Thief, your version will not look as good as the PS4 version. If you want the prettier version, spend some money and get a PS4. It's exactly the same on PC, the only difference is that all the different versions are on the same disc or file.

Obviously anyone who feels forced to play games at lower settings feels that way because they don't WANT to spend any more money.

It's not the same as the PS3->PS4, because the PS4 is coming out SIX YEARS after the PS3.

That meant SIX YEARS of games dedicated to looking their best on a single platform with locked specs. And they actually looked way better by the end. On a PC with locked specs, over six years, games would require more and more scaling back of the settings, until finally you simply wouldn't be able to play most of the good looking ones any more.

There IS benefit to having the games developed for your system rather than your system developed for the games.

And maybe that benefit isn't quite as big as gritting your teeth and paying to play catch-up with your PC, but for a lot of people it's a cost/reward equation, and it's very obvious which choice is the less cost.

Conversely, for people who only really play non-hardware-intensive indie games, consoles are a bigger cost as they could just get a low spec PC and sit on it for 8 years.

It's all about how much you value fidelity in games, and what suits your specific tastes as a gamer.

It's not a simple "Better potential fidelity = best platform" equation.

 

[mkenyon]

If you played games at 720p with scaled down settings and zero AA, you could play just about any game on a 6 year old machine. Your argument is totally bunk.

I really want a living room PC for gaming that is primarily controller based. Unfortunately the cost for anything not awful looks more expensive than all three current machines combined. Anything that's not designed for large, loud towers seems to double or triple the cost of entry.

As pointed out above, this is no longer the case. It's about $80ish over a similarly spec'd full size tower.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I play mostly Japanese games, so by that logic I should dislike PC's.

Nope

I was playing Sonic Generations: Project Unleashed earlier, I could never get this kind of fan made support in consoles. And emulation is fucking beautiful.

 

[oVerde]

No couch and controller for many games, no buy.

Jk, I love my gaming PC for Indies.

 

[H_Prestige]

No thanks. Desktops are outdated and impractical and gaming laptops are shit.

 

[Labombadog]

No thanks. Desktops are outdated and impractical and gaming laptops are shit.

Impractical?

 

[SirButterstick]

Yeah, the Alan Wake franchise is $4 on Steam right now. If this isn't indication that ghetto-ass consoles can suck the big one, I don't know what is.

 

[jtb]

Yes, because if you want a smaller case you have to pick it out yourself.

aw come on. I'm as much on board the PC train as anyone, but it's true. Desktops are a dying species and gaming on laptops is, all things considered, a pretty shit option.

 

[Varna]

The PC is one platform out of many people can and should be interested in.

There is absolutely no PC substitute for the types of games Sony and Nintendo have published over the last 30 years.

I understand Nintendo. Really, even I will end up buying a Wii U eventually.

But the stuff Sony and MS publish is that really something so unique to the platform? We have plenty of shooters to go around on the PC. I cannot for second believe that the stuff on the consoles is unique in any way at all (I've played Uncharted 1 & 2).

 

[nbthedude]

I feel like this Xbox news means I should update the OP.

...So I"m updating the OP.

 

[Izick]

Okay.

I've been a console gamer for practically my whole life. I've played a few dozen or so PC games (usually exclusive) and I loved them, but I've always been against the idea of getting a PC as my main gaming machine. There's always been really two reasons for that, it was always the seeming complexity of it all, and the exclusives.

After E3, I've been really torn about what next-gen console to get. I like the X1's exclusives a lot more, but I like Sony's hardware and price more. The thing is though, nothing really screams out at me as a must have. On the other side of the fence though, games like Shadowrun Returns, Project Eternity, Broken Age, and Torment: ToN are all looking like must-own games to me. Like I'm dying for them to be brought over to consoles, or at least I was up until I started considering the PC. These games all look like must-own games, and they're refreshing in comparison to what's out there right now.

So that really only leaves complexity. The thing I like about the consoles is that they're pretty easy to use and access. The boxes are fairly small and an be tucked away, without being thought about. Still, as someone who loves gaming, the idea of building my own machine to surpass consoles has always intrigued me. The thing is though, I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to the inner workings. I know (mostly) what a CPU, GPU, RAM, etc. is, but putting it all together is a little...daunting, to say the least.

So, I ask for some general advice or anecdotes about PC gaming in comparison to console gaming. How difficult did you find the transition? Would you whole-heartedly recommend it over console gaming?

 

[SuperSonic1305]

I've spent $3000 on PC hardware since 2008. Still play more on consoles/handhelds. It's just easier and far less of a headache. Why am I not running x game at 60 fps with an i7 and a 680? Fuck if I know.

And before anyone replies saying "well you can't get 60fps at max settings with consoles har har har" I understand that and have accepted that but at least I can comfortably play a console game without worrying about how my experience is going to get fucked today. A PC game can be as polished and optimized as possible but all it takes if one fucking thing to be wrong somewhere else completely unrelated on your PC, hardware or software wise, to fuck everything up.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Sorry.... I'm more of a Nintendo guy. Maybe for occasional fighting game/shooter, but at the sametime I prefer the console online ecosystems over the PC's even if they're behind a paywall.

Plus I could use less reasons to hop on my PC and Procrastinate.

EDIT: It's also easier to just toss a gaming console in a bag and take it with me. Easy setup, no worrying about upgrading. I like convenience as well.

 

[Izick]

Also, for my last post:

My favorite genre, by far, is WRPG's, and it seems like the PC is clearly getting the best experience there with CDPR, Obsidian, Bethesda, inXile, etc.

 

[Izick]

Sorry to do a bump, but I'm really curious what some PC gamers have to say in regards to my long-post from earlier on this page.

I'm really starting to consider PC gaming, but I'm just not completely there yet.

 

[Duxxy3]

I love my gaming PC and love the prices for DD games, but right now my PC is being used for productivity and stream 95% of the time. That will change sometime in the future when I'm done taking classes, but right now my PS3 is where I game. That behavior is also why I went from buying a new console next year sometime to buy a PS4 this fall.

 

[Sentenza]

I've spent $3000 on PC hardware since 2008. Still play more on consoles/handhelds. It's just easier and far less of a headache. Why am I not running x game at 60 fps with an i7 and a 680? Fuck if I know.

And before anyone replies saying "well you can't get 60fps at max settings with consoles har har har" I understand that and have accepted that but at least I can comfortably play a console game without worrying about how my experience is going to get fucked today. A PC game can be as polished and optimized as possible but all it takes if one fucking thing to be wrong somewhere else completely unrelated on your PC, hardware or software wise, to fuck everything up.

You are obviously free to do whatever you want with your money and habits, but at least I hope you realize you aren't making a single substantial point in your whole post.
You are just throwing around "common places" and buzzwords and the whole thing reads pretty much like "I prefer consoles because consoles are so console-y and I don't want to give up on my intimate console-feelings".

 

[alexandros]

Sorry to do a bump, but I'm really curious what some PC gamers have to say in regards to my long-post from earlier on this page.

I'm really starting to consider PC gaming, but I'm just not completely there yet.

I can't really help you in regards to the console-to-pc transition, but I think I can give you an overview of the situation on the complexity of PC gaming these days.

Hardware: It's not that difficult to select the hardware for your own PC these days, there are tons of guides and walkthroughs online. GAF's own "I need a new PC" thread is excellent, full of useful information and you would be wise to check it out. Also feel free to ask your questions there and you can be sure that there are a lot of people willing to help you out. Of course you can just buy an off-the-shelf PC, but expect to pay a small premium.

System software and maintenance: The situation is much improved compared to, say, ten years ago. Nowadays it's relatively simple to keep your system safe and up to date, for instance you can upgrade your AMD graphics drivers through Steam and your Nvidia drivers through Geforce Experience automatically without fuss. If you're a bit careful while surfing the internet and you avoid installing weird software from seedy websites, then you shouldn't have any trouble keeping your PC in good condition for gaming.

Gaming: Again, nowadays PC gaming is much easier to get into. You have services like Steam that handle all the bothersome stuff (like updating and patching) automatically, so you just click and play.

Drawbacks: PC gaming is much friendlier than it used to be, but it's still not console-level simple. Hopefully Valve's Steambox will get us there, but for now PC gaming still has a higher chance of something going wrong than consoles.

 

[njean777]

I dont agree as I have grown up on consoles and like the controller more then kb/m. I will agree that it is worth it to have a pc for exclusives though.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Since almost every non mmo game is a console to PC port, I feel that the PC has kinda lost its edge in graphics, I mean compared to the years up until the end of the PS2 era. Back then there was a huge gap in graphics between PCs and consoles.

 

[Sothpaw]

No thank you. Been there. Best exclusives are on consoles now anyway.

Unless you like WRPG's, MOBA, RTS, 4X, MMO, or ARPG. I mean other than that sure.

 

[Sentenza]

I dont agree as I have grown up on consoles and like the controller more then kb/m.

Yeah... So?
Look, I'm not saying that people *have to* prefer PC to consoles, but I really don't see how "I grew up playing on consoles" is a counter-argument to the points made in the OP.

 

[Sheroking]

I have a mid-level gaming PC for current gen games, I'll probably upgrade to another mid-level PC for next-gen games soon... but it won't be the "home base" for me because I think it gets ~30% of the games I want most year over year.

I'll probably wind up playing multiplats on it, as long as they support 360 controller.

 

[ScOULaris]

I have an old Dell XPS m1530 that I do all of my PC gaming on. Since it's about five years old now, I can't play any of the big, demanding games. That being said, it can handle most indie games with aplomb, which is all I really care about. Most of the big developers are developing primarily for consoles anyway and then porting over to PC, so I don't think that owning a super-powerful rig is really worth the investment anymore. It was moreso back in the 90's when PC gaming was leagues apart from consoles, both in terms of graphics and game selection.

 

[1st Course]

Okay.

After E3, I've been really torn about what next-gen console to get. I like the X1's exclusives a lot more, but I like Sony's hardware and price more. The thing is though, nothing really screams out at me as a must have. On the other side of the fence though, games like Shadowrun Returns, Project Eternity, Broken Age, and Torment: ToN are all looking like must-own games to me. Like I'm dying for them to be brought over to consoles, or at least I was up until I started considering the PC. These games all look like must-own games, and they're refreshing in comparison to what's out there right now.

If these are the only games you're interested in then you don't need to worry about it, these games will probably run on anything from 2008 onward. If you're interested in PC gaming as whole though you will need something better than your average laptop.

 

[Forkball]

Okay.

I've been a console gamer for practically my whole life. I've played a few dozen or so PC games (usually exclusive) and I loved them, but I've always been against the idea of getting a PC as my main gaming machine. There's always been really two reasons for that, it was always the seeming complexity of it all, and the exclusives.

After E3, I've been really torn about what next-gen console to get. I like the X1's exclusives a lot more, but I like Sony's hardware and price more. The thing is though, nothing really screams out at me as a must have. On the other side of the fence though, games like Shadowrun Returns, Project Eternity, Broken Age, and Torment: ToN are all looking like must-own games to me. Like I'm dying for them to be brought over to consoles, or at least I was up until I started considering the PC. These games all look like must-own games, and they're refreshing in comparison to what's out there right now.

So that really only leaves complexity. The thing I like about the consoles is that they're pretty easy to use and access. The boxes are fairly small and an be tucked away, without being thought about. Still, as someone who loves gaming, the idea of building my own machine to surpass consoles has always intrigued me. The thing is though, I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to the inner workings. I know (mostly) what a CPU, GPU, RAM, etc. is, but putting it all together is a little...daunting, to say the least.

So, I ask for some general advice or anecdotes about PC gaming in comparison to console gaming. How difficult did you find the transition? Would you whole-heartedly recommend it over console gaming?

The transition is not hard at all. Ask the build a PC thread. I think Neroh basically told me everything I needed to buy. Building a PC is definitely scary at first, but after you watch a few guides and kinda know what the hell you are doing, you will figure it out. Once I knew what to do, I started from scratch and it took about two hours to build my first gaming PC.

You can get into fiddling with settings slowly. Games autodetect everything these days and set it to what your computer can handle (though double check the monitor resolution). Really there are many games where I never open the "options" tab unless it's just to double check something.

PC gaming is easier than one would think, especially with Steam. It's really up to you about how hardcore you want to get into it in terms of configuring hardware and software. But for me, I mostly just download and play and don't worry about the other stuff.

I would certainly recommend it over console gaming, though there are many good console exclusives not to be ignored. I didn't buy a 360 or PS3 this gen and honestly don't think I missed out at all except for a few games. The great PC exclusives more than made up for it.

 

[RooMHM]

Worst first post I ve ever seen.
also, why "should become" and not "should be"... why "should"?

 

[BRUTALBOWN]

No thanks. Desktops are outdated and impractical and gaming laptops are shit.

Ha, not at all, I'm a console and PC desktop gamer and see the benefits to both, the flexibility with PC's alone is what will keep them relevant and there will always be a market for them. Last time I looked I didn't see Skyward Sword running at 1080p with insane amounts of AA on consoles.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

These PC images can easily be run on a mid-level PC and they not only replicate the console version but enhance it greatly.

You forgot to mention how the mighty PC and it's emulation, especially for PS2 games, also enhances the controller lag for these old console games too. (enhances as it makes the games unplayable) Oh, and lets not forget that some of the games have a few glitches like some cut scenes not playing at all, and that you still need to take the time to setup everything like speedhacks and what not on the PS2 emulator on a game by game basis. I know, cause I tried to play FFXII on my PC with the PS2 emulator, and while the game looked glorious, the control lag was so bad I went right back to the PS2.

On the other hand, if you like really old arcade games MAME for PC is where it's at.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I have an old Dell XPS m1530 that I do all of my PC gaming on. Since it's about five years old now, I can't play any of the big, demanding games. That being said, it can handle most indie games with aplomb, which is all I really care about. Most of the big developers are developing primarily for consoles anyway and then porting over to PC, so I don't think that owning a super-powerful rig is really worth the investment anymore. It was moreso back in the 90's when PC gaming was leagues apart from consoles, both in terms of graphics and game selection.

One of the big benefits of the open platform is you invest what you want to get what you want. There are plenty of reasons to build a beefy machine if IQ or 120hz or 3D or multimoniter are important to you. If console games are all your interested in and framerate and IQ aren't that important to you and modding, emulation and backwards compatibility aren't things you'll get any use out of and gamepads are all you ever want to use and the thought of optimizing settings to your personal preferences is more than you're looking to do, then, PC is probably not for you.

 

[njean777]

Yeah... So?
Look, I'm not saying that people *have to* prefer PC to consoles, but I really don't see how "I grew up playing on consoles" is a counter-argument to the points made in the OP.

Because it is what I am comfortable with it. Its like switching from iphone to android, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. After playing using consoles for most of my life I do not want to take the time to learn kb/m.

I know you are a major pc fanboy, so I don't think you would understand.

 

[Sentenza]

You forgot to mention how the mighty PC and it's emulation, especially for PS2 games, also enhances the controller lag for these old console games too. (enhances as it makes the games unplayable) Oh, and lets not forget that some of the games have a few glitches like some cut scenes not playing at all, and that you still need to take the time to setup everything like speedhacks and what not on the PS2 emulator on a game by game basis. I know, cause I tried to play FFXII on my PC with the PS2 emulator, and while the game looked glorious, the control lag was so bad I went right back to the PS2.

And let's not forget viruses, hackers, emergent AI taking control of your machine, not to mention locusts, meteors and other biblical plagues that could happen.

 

[diamount]

No thank you. Been there. Best exclusives are on consoles now anyway.

lolwut

Such a subjective thing to say and not a 'imo' in sight. The 'best' exclusives would be something groundbreaking, like Star Citizen.. but no that's not coming to consoles.

 

[TheLight]

Uhhh LMAO Nope I'm okay. Thanks?

 

[1st Course]

I have an old Dell XPS m1530 that I do all of my PC gaming on. Since it's about five years old now, I can't play any of the big, demanding games. That being said, it can handle most indie games with aplomb, which is all I really care about. Most of the big developers are developing primarily for consoles anyway and then porting over to PC, so I don't think that owning a super-powerful rig is really worth the investment anymore. It was moreso back in the 90's when PC gaming was leagues apart from consoles, both in terms of graphics and game selection.

Sad but true. Outside of few select franchises, AAA PC exclusives aren't made anymore.

 

[Itachi87]

I dont agree as I have grown up on consoles and like the controller more then kb/m. I will agree that it is worth it to have a pc for exclusives though.

i grew up on consoles as well, but prefer the PC now. controllers work on the PC too you know.

 

[diamount]

Sad but true. Outside of few select franchises, AAA PC exclusives aren't made anymore.

How the fuck do you rate AAA? Budget? Scope? If the latter, there are bloody plenty 'AAA' pc exclusives.

 

[njean777]

i grew up on consoles as well, but prefer the PC now. controllers work on the PC too you know.

Yes I do know, but how does that help me when I already said I am comfortable on consoles? Maybe I should have been more specific. All my friends play on consoles and we play together, consoles do not require me to screw with files if I have to, also I use a mac so gaming is kinda out of the question on pc unless I want everything on low-medium using bootcamp.

 

[Sentenza]

Because it is what I am comfortable with it.

Which is not what we were talking about, nor what you wrote at first.
The OP makes a series of points about why most core gamers would have a lot to gain from PC gaming, and you reply was *literally* "I disagree" followed by an irrelevant statement that didn't deny ANY of the premises of this thread ("I never did it, so I'm not familiar to it").

I know you are a major pc fanboy, so I don't think you would understand.

I'm a *HUGE* PC gaming advocate, I have no reasons to deny it and I'm not ashamed of it. I also I advocate for every kind of open platform or standard, in fact.
"Fanboy" would imply that I have not solid and objective reasons to back my preference, which is not really the case, so let me fiercely refuse the definition and send it back to where it comes from.

 

[njean777]

Which is not what we were talking about, nor what you wrote at first.
The OP makes a series of points about why most core gamers would have a lot to gain from PC gaming, and you reply was *literally* "I disagree" followed by an irrelevant statement that didn't deny ANY of the premises of this thread ("I never did it, so I'm not familiar to it").


I'm a *HUGE* PC gaming advocate, I have no reasons to deny it and I'm not ashamed of it. I also I advocate for every kind of open platform or standard, in fact.
"Fanboy" would imply that I have not solid and objective reasons to back my preference, which is not really the case, so let me fiercely refuse the definition and send it back to where it comes from.

No you are a fanboy, you argue every single point somebody makes against the pc. I said I am not comfortable with it, and yet here you are trying to tell me why I am wrong. I do disagree that it should become the major platform for every "core" gamer, as you do not have to have one in order to be a "core" gamer, what makes the pc so fucking special that we can just ignore consoles? Its all preference and you should learn that not every single "core" gamer has to have, and play, a pc. Is it cool to have one? Sure, but it isn't mandatory? I would say no especially if you do not like pc exclusives like me. I liked one this gen and even that came to 360 and that was The witcher 2, 3 is coming out on everything, so now I have no reason to build a better pc as of yet.

 

[1st Course]

How the fuck do you rate AAA? Budget? Scope? If the latter, there are bloody plenty 'AAA' pc exclusives.

I should have said "AAA single player exclusives", there plenty of AAA PC exclusives yes but most of them are either MMOs or F2P games. Traditional single players exclusives that are made to take advantage of the hardware aren't made anymore sadly though, OG Crysis and W2 were the last of their breed.