TheRaidenPT
Member
Costs increases for everyone, that's just the market.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[DF] PS5 v PC value comparisons less important than a bleak future for console pricing
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This will $100% happen if base consoles ever needed to be $1,000 or more at launch.
Last edited:
LMJ
Member
Lol not saying many of these couldn't be bangers, but I have noticed as MS marches toward the end of console-dom, that more and more blatant PC gamepass reccomendations have been popping up as of late lolPC has more value in many ways " The day one Games "
I think
Life Diff
hit the nail on the headAlso lol at calling
Topher
a shill, one of the biggest gaming agnostics a shill lol
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
My issue with your argument here is that you aren't factoring in PS3, which in some ways is actually closer to PS4 than PS4 is to PS5.
PS3 was the first device to use Blu-Ray and 2.5" laptop drives for onboard storage; two elements that had declined massively in price between the two devices being launched, and acted as a counterbalance to inflation on the BOM.
With PS5 we have the introduction of Solid State storage, which at the time was right at the cusp of becoming affordable, but in the years since has become way cheaper to the point where adding an extra Terabyte (plus) is just added in on the Pro without any fanfare whatsoever!
See its tempting to view the APU as the totality of the BOM, but its just an element, and typically the element that is most predictable in terms of cost as it can be calculated well in advance based on die-size and fab node.
Point being, with PS5 pretty much every aspect of the design from cooling system to controllers was contributing to its price point above PS4.
So, following the logic of how the transition between PS3 and PS4 went, and transposing that onto PS5 to PS6 what I'd expect to see is a similar effect where the BOM is balanced up by spending roughly the same (relative ratio) amount procuring the APU, and cutting costs across the rest of the build through more mature -and therefore cheaper- tech.
And once again, I'd caution looking at "Pro" devices as platforms in their own right. They are not. They are adjunct's to pre-established mass-market platforms, and thus not required to drive sales (and thereby the ecosystem as a whole) in the same way. Obvious consequence being that, as we see with PS5 Pro, no subsidization on price whatsoever.
Something that I'd bet will not be the case with PS6, as obviously they need to throw every economic lever to kickstart the new-gen platform economy.
Topher
Gold Member
Lol not saying many of these couldn't be bangers, but I have noticed as MS marches toward the end of console-dom, that more and more blatant PC gamepass reccomendations have been popping up as of late lol
I think
Also lol at calling
I appreciate that, but I didn't see where I was called a shill.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
Even for those big boxes alone
kiphalfton
Member
Well considering there's been barely any good exclusives for PS5, I wouldn't doubt it if it's digital only and doesn't have backwards compatible.
simpatico
Gold Member
I think there's room for more expensive consoles. Just look at phones. Gamestop could even do financing like the Verizon store. I think gamers at large might not have the best credit since we've got such a large segment of neets, but if people are willing to make iPhone payments I think they would make Playstation payments. Sony just needs to go all out and give them something that is worth it.
angrod14
Member
No way PS6 isn't BC with PS5 and PS4. They want to keep their user base locked in with their libraries, not push them out of the ecosystem.
PS6 will most likely follow the same strategy as the PS5 Pro. Default console is digital, with the disc drive sold as an accessory for the people who need/want it.
StereoVsn
Member
And also digital only games and MTX. Basically the 80-90% figures are complete BS.
Majority of large games from Sony and even other publishers (Sports and mainly MP titles aside) are sold as physicals. And it’s even more pronounced outside US.
Puscifer
Member
You'll own nothing and be happy
SyedDanishAnwar
Member
PS3 and XBO had a great lineup of stellar exclusives. 3DO on the other hand had only a few games worth playing. That's why it failed. The company struggled to attract developers to develop exclusive games for the system.
People forget at the end of the day value trumps prices. PS5, Pro, and even Xbox lack a lot of exclusives making them worthless imo. To me they seem to be going the way of the dodo similar to 3DO.
The value of consoles may be only for poor people who can't afford to spend $800+ to buy a +4060 gaming PC. My PS5 rarely see the light of the day (only for exclusives) as the cost of games (inc. multiplayer) is way cheaper on PC (relative cost advantage for gaming). And Steam and Epic unlike those dumb console companies don't block nearly half of the world from playing multiplayer.
Last edited:
kevboard
Member
they failed to live up to their potential based on their predecessors.
the PS3 had a horrendous launch, and was saved by 2 factors. 1: Japan just doesn't like Xbox, so the PS3 was the only alternative there if they wanted to play non-Nintendo games. and 2: the PlayStation brand carried a lot of the weight.
the Xbox One was a failure because the Xbox 360 had A SHITLOAD of momentum, some third party games sold at a ratio of 3/1 in favor of the 360 at one point. and Microsoft destroyed said momentum so hard that Sony could literally meme on them during their E3 presentation. it also failed to live up to being the most powerful system, when Xbox was always the most powerful up until that point.
so the momentum was killed, and the Xbox brand lost one of its big attributes.
Last edited:
Orbital2060
Member
Id buy a PS5 Amateur. At 200-250 $.
Last edited:
JimboJones
Member
Lots of conveniently ignoring the scathing remark against Xbox recent 2TB model being incredibly expensive too. But yes they are out for Sony's blood.
Wooxsvan
Member
yes because happiness isn't derived from things that I own.
twilo99
Gold Member
You don't agree that the best value currently is the PS5 slim or perhaps even the PS5 digital?
I'd argue that is the XSS but since you can't process that we will leave it out of the value just for you.
I would love to know where, as you see it, is the value in a $700+ based on a Zen2 architecture from 5 years ago?
Last edited:
ZehDon
Member
Oh boy. Screams the same kind of energy as: "the Xbox One's DRM is where the industry is headed you just need to accept it".
Rosoboy19
Member
It is already (kind of) happening with Xbox All Access, although that is more about growing Game Pass than subsidizing cost.
You're getting absolutely poor performance with this for more money than a PS5 Pro. Less storage for games too.
DryvBy
Member
I'm genuinely curious about this. I have multiple friends that defend their outrageous phone purchases (I've owned 4 phones in the past 15 years, two of which died on me). Here's the question: what are you people using on your phone that you even need to upgrade for?? No one ever had a reason they need the extra giga turds of memory and speed.
My phone activities are as follows: NeoGAF, Discord, music app, YouTube, X, camera, texting
None of that crap needs anything near my speed. I suspect more people are scrolling TikTard and surfing social media for nudes. I bet most people aren't even using even 10% of their phones potential yet they line up for the latest. Maybe boomers were the smartest generation. It used to be a joke that they wouldn't upgrade their PC until it was near catching on fire booting it.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
It’s interesting that you take a long hiatus away from the boards only to return once the PS5 Pro is officially announced. You work for Sony? Just curious.
I think with the phone people very often use it as a publicly visible status thing. Some people do the same with cars too. It's not about just utility.
Last edited:
DAHGAMING
Member
This is it mate, I have PS5 digital, cheapest way for there exclusives. I have a series x since release upstairs as part of my main setup and for a yr a Series S downstairs for casual stuff (FIFA, Battlefied ect) and I have probably used that more than anything els the last yr.
CLW
Member
Lmao stop being poor $5k or forget gaming
//DEVIL//
Member
You kinda have to understand it’s an age factor too.
For most adults with a normal income, buying a PC is just a better option for everything gaming / work / gaming sites forums if he a hardcore gamer .
The PS5 is weak. The PS5 pro is still weak and expensive . So to them seeing this for 700$, of course it will be downplayed not by them but everyone.
The idea of a home console was and always has been about affordable gaming alternative to the more expensive stuff ever since VS the neo geo days and to this day. When you try to sell a console for 700$ at its lowest price across the world, it’s no longer an easy to pick to buy over a PC.
Sony before this current management, used to take a hit on the console or at worse break even to be competitive and get profit from subs and games. Sony not only they are 100% making profit out of the pro, they also didn’t lower the price of a system that was released in 2020. And on top of that they also charge u money to play online .
It becomes more and more of an attitude of “ what the fuck this company is doing “ . Not only from DF, but almost every media site.
700$ for this ? Really ? They deserve the heat and honestly I applaud digital foundry for saying it loud.
Also. They said it’s too early to judge the system if I am mistaken but so far from the b roll footage they have ? Yeah the ps5 pro is super disappointing and the only saving grace it has the potential to be semi good is PSSR, and even that it seems not even good as dlss . Just better than the garbage FSR .
Sony tried this with the PS3 and got burnt so fast the price went down to 400$ within a year.
Arrogant Sony is back in full force
Last edited:
Generic
Member
The PS4 Pro wasn't a premium product. This is the issue.People keep making the flawed assumption that console gaming is for people on a budget, and that those with money will choose the more premium (expensive) option. Odd, since most people evangelizing for PC do so by arguing how much money you'll save. The fact of the matter is, people with high incomes would rather save time/energy when enjoying their entertainment; not money.
Killjoy-NL
Member
The general idea they discuss is fair, it's been on-going for years.
It literally is just DF. Like I said, the closing comment is carefully chosen.
Doesn't really matter though. It's just my thoughts on the article.
Yeah, I'd take this with a huge grain of salt, even from DF.
They were quite wrong about PS5 pre-launch.
//DEVIL//
Member
It’s possible they are wrong. We don’t know anything and PSSR could be amazing and better than dlss ( lol ehm) anyway . It’s just what they have seen so far isn’t impressive to them .. or anyone wtf is 800p on ps5 pro
rnlval
Member
Abnormal inflation increase is a major factor.
polybius80
Member
this is not true, PS3 was the second best selling machine of that generation
if the second best selling console of its generation is considered not successful because they had to change the price, why not put the 3DS then? it only started to sell well after the reduction in price
Last edited:
Killjoy-NL
Member
Fair enough, that's something I can understand.
But the same argument was made with PS4 Pro. It's just an issue that comes with Pro-consoles.
As for 800p, I think we should just wait for how games end up on our screens.
If PSSR can produce something like a native 4K-like IQ, who cares what resolution it natively renders?
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Yes, and since this is a type of gaslighting (because these numbers are thrown around everytime, and time and again are proven wrong if you look at them more closely / look at the entire picture instead of cherrypicking your statistics to fool people), I wonder if he is beind paid for it at least? Imagine gaslighting people into abandoning their voices as customers without getting paid to do so.
ZehDon
Member
I imagine a good number of people who seem to be shills are doing so for free, all in the name of defending their particular purchasing decision.
LMJ
Member
You don't seem like a peach yourself there pal
Crayon
Member
PS5 will be well supported for a long ass time and has already done 4 years of it. PS6 could be a long way out, and cross gen will be even longer next time.
So if you bought in for 500, you have the option of running that hardware for years and years with no need to upgrade. It might break before support dries up. The games get heavier every year and slow down the system, but you can still play them.
l'm betting consoles are going to get more expensive, but things will be different when support for previous gens tapers off over a period that goes well into the next gen. Instead of getting chopped off a year after the new one comes out.
Every day we got people going on about how this gen is shit because you can get all the games on PS4. Yet they wouldn't want to back to that PS4, would they? Almost like there's some value in the PS5 and Series X even with their lack of "next gen" games.
The divide between generations got blown wide open with the seamless backwards compatibility and the dev cycles getting insane. If you think you are frustrated about next gen games now, imagine a DOUBLE cross gen game that launches on PS5,6, and 7 simultaneously. I think we are slipping towards that.
Expensive new consoles fit into this picture because it's going to be so long until you actually need one.
So if you bought in for 500, you have the option of running that hardware for years and years with no need to upgrade. It might break before support dries up. The games get heavier every year and slow down the system, but you can still play them.
l'm betting consoles are going to get more expensive, but things will be different when support for previous gens tapers off over a period that goes well into the next gen. Instead of getting chopped off a year after the new one comes out.
Every day we got people going on about how this gen is shit because you can get all the games on PS4. Yet they wouldn't want to back to that PS4, would they? Almost like there's some value in the PS5 and Series X even with their lack of "next gen" games.
The divide between generations got blown wide open with the seamless backwards compatibility and the dev cycles getting insane. If you think you are frustrated about next gen games now, imagine a DOUBLE cross gen game that launches on PS5,6, and 7 simultaneously. I think we are slipping towards that.
Expensive new consoles fit into this picture because it's going to be so long until you actually need one.
//DEVIL//
Member
PS4 pro was 400$ with a physical drive . This is 800 after the added drive or whatever. Which goes back to the point I made before, this thing is so expensive to the point even digital Foundry and the rest of the media are not impressed and some of them are like fuck it why bother switch to PC be done with it.
Again it could be impressive tech but what we have seen so far ? It’s closer to a bad joke .
It will sell out this year within seconds . Scalpers will have a playing field for them all this year but come next year when it’s everywhere and hype is dead … yeah I don’t see it flying.
I also personally hope it doesn’t fly and it to be a complete loss to Sony in terms of sales and R&D .
This behavior is just telling Sony hey you can sell a base ps6 with no drive for at least 700$. How the hell is this ok ?
pasterpl
Member
And so many are still defending physical gaming. We will see how this changes when PS6 is digital only.
BlackTron
Member
At least Pro is a system with physical games on it unlike PC.
Pretty sure nobody would be bemoaning Pro's lack of drive if it didn't have an existing library of physical games, many of which already owned by people looking to upgrade.
The situation is worse as a mid-gen refresh where expectations were built on the base model. If base PS5 didn't include the drive and you were asked up front to decide between digital and physical, it would be a little different. But basically everyone with a physical game has a bad time upgrading now.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Pretty sure the world-economy was in a very different state last-gen.
Last edited:
Midn1ght
Member
People want multiple 300 million AAA graphically mind blowing games each years from Sony but ignore the fact that Sony is losing 40-50% on each physical sale or even 100% when the a game is resold second hand.
Some of them also have the guts to complain about Valve 20-25% cut for games released on Steam that don't make money anymore on consoles.
They don't want Sony to make money and complain when they increase prices across the board.
"My exclusives / My physical boxes" is all that matter.
//DEVIL//
Member
to almost double the price of the last gen pro console ? Yeah nope lol
Killjoy-NL
Member
You're free to provide a breakdown of the production cost.
Edit: then there's probably logistics as well. As I assume they come to EU by ship, so they run into issues at the Red Sea due to the Houthis.
Last edited:
That's fine, I think it's less about the hardware and more about what users have invested in the most. If you have decent PS library of games why would you swap platforms.
Also, what was DF wrong on pre-launch specifically? As far as I know the where pretty spot on on the capabilities of the hardwa, only that devs still don't utilize the O/I hardware to the full extended, but still manage to release most titles with a 60fps mode. PS5's 4700s CPU is still pretty underpowered compared to modern CPU's, having the performance equivalent of high-end 2014 CPU, but devs squeeze a hell of a lot out of it, which is great! Smartly offloading most of it to the more powerful GPU. This is excellent for me and other mid PC build owners, I haven't needed to build complete hardware refresh for awhile because of this 'lowest common denominator' logic. Just replacing the GPU is enough.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Pretty sure DF ran with the false 'power-difference' narrative at the time.
Which makes sense, because Bagliatelli was part of the Xbox FUD Discord that spread all the misinformation.
Even Spencer admitted in the leaked internal emails that he had discussed Road to PS5 with DF (again, makes sense given the DF ties to said Xbox Discord).
They can be considered shills based on solely that.
Their impartial takes only come from their purely technical analyses, not from anything outside of that.
But it is technically a more powerful system, even if it's very slight. It's running a 4800g, which isn't all that more powerful. The big problem with Microsoft is their API. Sony's seemed to be way more performant with better through-put using the limited power of the RAM and CPU.
I don't care either way as a PC user who is glad that platform agnosticism is finally becoming a normal thing, but I can't see Bagliatelli purposefully spreading misinfo as he clearly doesn't care about the console race either, and has a track record of being way more interested in raw technical deconstruction.