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Why the PC Should Become The Home Base for Every HardCore Gamer

Blinck

Member
You're right, and I think it has to do with being the one thing that a lot of people can relate to.

For me, it's the ability to browse, do social networking, sit in my custom mumble server chatting with friends with sound quality nearly good as sitting next to the person, play games, create content, stream games, watch live esport matches, and have 120hz all on the same machine.

You can't do all of that on any other device.

That's is true, and it is why I think the PC is always a good buy if you are gonna do more than gaming.
I actually NEED a powerful PC for work, so even if it is giving me headaches when it comes to gaming, it's still worth it for all the other uses I give it.

I just think that if anyone is considering buying a pc just for gaming they should know that it is far from a perfect platform and that it is in fact more prone to problems than a console.
For some it will still be worth it for all the Pro's it brings to the table, but for people that just don't want to deal with any of it, they are better of with a console IMO.
 

p3tran

Banned
4f5adf02_Vega5x1.jpeg

holly fucking shit! 8)
 

mkenyon

Banned
That's is true, and it is why I think the PC is always a good buy if you are gonna do more than gaming.
I actually NEED a powerful PC for work, so even if it is giving me headaches when it comes to gaming, it's still worth it for all the other uses I give it.

I just think that if anyone is considering buying a pc just for gaming they should know that it is far from a perfect platform and that it is in fact more prone to problems than a console.
For some it will still be worth it for all the Pro's it brings to the table, but for people that just don't want to deal with any of it, they are better of with a console IMO.
I do get what you are saying, and you are right to a certain extent.

However, I can't play most console games with 16.7ms frame times let alone a desired 8.3ms frame time. That's an intrinsic problem that can't be fixed.

If we're talking Persona, Limbo, or something like that, it doesn't really matter. That's why I also keep my Vita and PS3, and play a ton of games on both (admittedly less so on the PS3 as of late). But we're not talking about what platform a person should solely dedicate themselves to.
 
The PC has been my primary gaming machine since 2004 and I certainly don't see that changing. I have a 73" HDTV that's calibrated but it doesn't take up any more of my field of vision than my 27" monitor. My home theater is very nice but unless I want to upset my neighbors isn't really better than my Sennheisers. My preference heavily leans towards games with strong strategic elements anyway.
 
When has user friendly ever been a major concern for enthusiasts? We're not talking about making it easy for people who casually enjoy playing games, or even spending a lot of time doing so in this thread.

"The Homebase for EVERY HardCore Gamer"...making something an assache to deal with will turn people off, so i get where he's coming from is all.

I can be patient and deal with:pop ups/alert messages/switching between resolutions/acess multiple windows, game server browsing, etc. Most people want instant acess to thier game, no bullshit.
 

mkenyon

Banned
"The Homebase for EVERY HardCore Gamer"...making something an assache to deal with will turn people off, so i get where he's coming from is all.

I can be patient and deal with:pop ups/alert messages/switching between resolutions/acess multiple windows, game server browsing, etc. Most people want instant acess to thier game, no bullshit.
The thread isn't about most people. But your argument is really accurate for non-enthusiasts, and I agree.
 

BigDug13

Member
The fact that this is what Morrowind can look like now on PC:


And GTA4 can look like this:


And you get to play brilliant total conversion mods like Nehrim for Oblivion:


Diaspora the Battlestar Gallactica game:


You get to play player-fixed completed games like the team that finished the KOTOR 2 story to make it suck less and feel more complete with The Sith Lords Restored.

Multiplayer mods for San Andreas and Just Cause 2, allowing hundreds of players on the same map.

Fan conversions like Crusader Kings 2 becoming an accurate war, royalty, and politics simulator of the Song of Ice and Fire world with the Crusader Kings 2: A Game of Thrones mod. (Eastern Continent of Essos coming soon.)

I just like the sheer openness of options that PC gaming has always afforded.
 
They're not outliers judging the by the gaf performance threads and official forums.
No they're not. PC gaming still has some PC gaming headaches, and it does cost more than console gaming.

Lets not kid ourselves. You do have to jump through some hoops, but whats on the other side is pretty amazing, if you're into those genres.
 
The PC will not become a go to game machine until, it basically becomes a console (Steambox), I'll give some personal reasons below.

1. Immediacy : It doesn't need extra BS requirements and hoops to jump through to play. I can handle a firmware update every now and then, but windows updates with BS all the time and ruins my excitement when all I want to do is play a game.

I know you've been reamed enough already, but this one genuinely made me laugh. As if this generation of consoles hasn't been plagued with firmware updates and game patches.

Of course your other points were mostly wrong too though.
 

mkenyon

Banned
PS3 yes, Xbox no.
I gave away my 360 because going through the hour process of updating it when I booted it up once every 3-6 months for some NBA Jam and Geometry Wars 2 became too annoying for just two games. Insert red ring stuff here as well.

I did kick myself when I got a hankering for Trials HD a year or so ago.
 

petran79

Banned
Unfortunately Steam really screws up if you dont have any internet connection

Offline mode may work, but the next time some games disappear from the list and you have to connect and rescan or redownload them. Impossible to have a laptop and stay in a place for a month without any internet connection with Steam. Something will eventually screw Steam and you have to find a Wifi spot. Problem is I installed Steam on an external HDD, so I cant carry it with me

The irony is that just as I was thinking of buying next gen consoles, they screw up too with offline play.

So the solution is to have a pirate copy installed instead of the official version, to ensure flawless play without internet connection. This goes for the Steam exclusives only.

Same goes for games that require authentification (Batman AA etc)

I also play on PC since the early 90s and I used to play on the Amiga before that.
The only reason I'd ever buy I console would be for fighters, but since I found GGPO and bought an arcade stick, I dont need a console anymore.

Besides with so few PS3 and Xbox 360 exclusives, they advertise and overhype them so much, you'd think they would be the second coming. But in reality they were nothing special gameplay wise, except some unique music, dialogues and FMV,

Ironic that games like Ni no Kuni are overhyped, but after a few months, gamers realize they werent anything special anyway.

After the end of the Dreamcast, consoles would never be the same again. I liked that console a lot.

But now consoles became PCs. You dont feel that special something older consoles had and which were unique. Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Jaguar, 3DO, Amiga CD, Sega CD, Neo Geo, PSX etc Maybe the Wii U and 3DS hold something of that old vibe, but Nintendo's policies have changed too when compared to the past.

now you just have a plastic box without any attachment. they became anonymous just like PCs.

Hence why I prefer now to have a PC too. I build mine a couple of years back so I made few blunders. Next time I'll be more careful
 
No they're not. PC gaming still has some PC gaming headaches, and it does cost more than console gaming.

Lets not kid ourselves. You do have to jump through some hoops, but whats on the other side is pretty amazing, if you're into those genres.

My Xbox 360 gave me far more headaches than my X51 does. Between the slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow menus, unbearable ad placement, patches, noise, 720p resolutions, high prices (compared to Steam) etc etc. Not even close to how much worse the experience on X360 is to my X51 Steam box. You're right on the pricing in the short term as well... longer term it's debatable. And I don't know if next-gen will make the console experience better or much worse. Who knows.
 
Both. And I suspect it's only going to get worse, since now consoles will get to experience the glory of server outages too.
The 360 dashboard gets updated a handful of times a year, and games need 5 second updates every so often. That's been my experience.

My Steam games have had major patches, but I usually don't notice it since my PC is on all the time and Steam does those updates in the background. But there have been times where I've had to wait a while for Steam to "convert my game files to a new format" or download multiple gig "updates" to certain games or verify the cache when games start acting weird. Then there are driver and OS and anti-virus updates which can take a while and/or require system restarts.

My PC version of Rage and Brink barely function. On console they'd at least be playable. GTA4 also stutters quite a bit and can never maintain a consistent framerate. FarCry 3 rolls dice every time I start it up to decide whether it'll play smooth or stutter like crazy every few seconds, which is similar to Driver: San Francisco, which every once in a while decides it wants to run at 24fps in a border, if it decides to start up, which sometimes it just won't. Guess its time to verify my Steam cache again.

These are PC issues I've run into personally, but I still love the PC for the choices it offers. Those choices also come with drawbacks that I don't find on the consoles at the moment (but ouch at Skyrim on PS3).

All it takes is a few minutes of playing a heavily modified Skyrim, Just Cause 2, or the latest build of Project Cars to make me forget those woes.
 
Last year, I bought a new PC at Sam's Club. Pretty solid specs, all I had to do was replace the insanely crappy video card. The reason I upgraded was to play Diablo 3, which I wasn't SUPER interested in, but had so many friends getting it that don't normally play games, I didn't want to miss out.

Before that, I would've said I'll always be a console gamer, but if D3 did one thing, it led me through the doorway of PC gaming.

A land where bundles of great games can be had for one single dollar, a fantastic variety in the games that were available, beautiful graphics, Steam/Amazon/GMG sales where new games are had for a fraction of the cost of their console counterpart, and other games are practically given away. Free online play, great communities and support from those communities.

I've owned every console since the OG NES. That stops this year. Honestly, other than the "new consoles, have to have them" feeling that's ingrained in me, I'm honestly not that interested in either the PS4 or XB1.
 
"I grew up with controllers" is such a fucking awkward statement. I find it hard to believe that using input other than a standard form controller is a foreign idea to people. I go out of my way to try different input methods (I have a move controller for gods sake, arcade sticks, etc). Does the idea of using an input radically different than the one you held when you were five offend you? Especially when it is amazing at controlling 3D cameras like a mouse (or allows genres that are only really possible for it like RTS)?

I use a controller when it feels appropriate but the idea of never using a KB/M for games sounds like a real bad time.
 
All it takes is a few minutes of playing a heavily modified Skyrim..... to make me forget those woes.

I knew we'd find common ground.

My only point was that his "immediacy" claim was laughable in that, for better or worse, the line between consoles and PC has never been blurrier. Meaning, they all have their issues, as complicated electronics and software usually do. As such, I'll gladly take open-platform, superior performance, and a massive games library any day.
 

nbthedude

Member
1. I have used MANY controllers in my time, of course I adapt, still don't like M&KB. People are allowed to have preferences, as you can attest to.[/quote]

Sure and PC because is the platform that gives you the most customization in every possible conceivable way from controller inputs to hardware to mods to game settings.

2. Sorry but this is absurd. Your experience does not equal everyone else's. Just because YOU like sitting in front of your monitor does not mean most other people do, as evidenced by ratio of computer gamers vs. computers in the wild. Headphones are ok if you don't mind wearing headphones.
.

I don't think I said anything to counter that a lot people believe the "America Fuck Yeah It's Big" bigger is better philosophy. It sold to us in everything from burgers to TVs. Nothing in my statement that you quoted indicated that I didn't understand the appeal or that most people adopt the philosophy. But I do think most people only adopt it specifically because it is the kind of experience that is sold to you. Quantity over quality is the mantra of the American consumer marketplace. And yes, I will continue to challenge the idea that bigger is always better. More subtle, intimate experiences can be equally meaningful if not more so.

If you are looking for a guy that will say everything is relative and everyone just has individual tastes and there is no such thing as objective quality experiences that transcend subjectivity, however, then you are barking up the wrong tree. I teach Shakespeare for a living. I don't care how often my students or anyone else would want to tell me they enjoy Jersey Shore more than Shakespeare, I reject outright the idea that all that exists in the world are preferences and there is no real truth to transcendentally shared meaningful, quality experiences. When I say something like this, it is usually about the time I get called an "elitist." But honestly, I'm pretty comfortable with the label elitist with anyone who wants to charge me with it. There are a bout a billion other labels I think are much worse, such as being uniformed or having bad taste. I am not charging you with any of those labels, I am just indicating that I reject the idea that every taste is relative and there is no such thing as good taste. But this is now sprawling too far from the topic at hand. My point is that I don't buy the argument "That's just your opinion, man" is always a valid response to any discussion of value. I often find it to be a shallow and untrue argument much of the time.
 
And in the spirit of this thread, I'll just throw out there that this thing is amazingly capable for couch surfing. And when you start up your game, just pick up your 360 controller. Perfection.

wireless-touch-keyboard-k400-amr-glamour-images.png
 

nbthedude

Member
"I grew up with controllers" is such a fucking awkward statement. I find it hard to believe that using input other than a standard form controller is a foreign idea to people. I go out of my way to try different input methods (I have a move controller for gods sake, arcade sticks, etc). Does the idea of using an input radically different than the one you held when you were five offend you? Especially when it is amazing at controlling 3D cameras like a mouse (or allows genres that are only really possible for it like RTS)?

I use a controller when it feels appropriate but the idea of never using a KB/M for games sounds like a real bad time.

I would say it was just someone who doesn't want to invest the time or is only interested in a more limited range of experiences. Just like my aunt and my mom never got used to analog sticks and the game's industry left them behind when that switch happened.

But yeah, true enthusiasts are the kind of people you generally expect to get over that kind of hump.
 
No they're not. PC gaming still has some PC gaming headaches, and it does cost more than console gaming.

Lets not kid ourselves. You do have to jump through some hoops, but whats on the other side is pretty amazing, if you're into those genres.
I agree, it's great. I've reached the age where I just don't care about dealing with those headaches anymore, however minor they may be. With next-gen consoles hopefully becoming 1080p standard for games I'm making the jump. Convenience has become so important for me.
 

nbthedude

Member
Ultra settings are the best of the best. The settings that give the smallest gain at the biggest cost. When medium still renders at the same HD resolution you're running it at, meaning far better IQ, and when it covers the bases of features that affect your image the most (ambient occlusion for example) at the lowest impact... That's just as much of a case for it over a game running at 15-30 FPS and rendering at sub-720p.

Demanding whatever the highest settings are just because they exist is stupid. I'm sorry. It just is. That's you throwing sliders up without regard to consequence and giving up when that is too demanding. It's for people who spend more on their hardware than you, it's sometimes even future proofing and providing options that most current hardware can't run.

This thread convinced me. I am just going to make a "PC Games Optimizing Mod" that simply switches the labels on "Ultra" and "Medium" settings and inverts "highest" and "medium" descriptors in all games without the user knowing it.

They will be amazed at their performance and the visual fidelity. They will shower me with money and I will be an internet hero.

There is no reason to demand every option be playable on your rig. People like you are why these settings are often buried in .ini files instead of being accessible in game... And the when you see people discussing those hidden settings you freak out about "OMG PC GAMING I DONT WANT TO EDIT TEXT FILES JUST TO PLAY A GAME"

That is a pretty amusing catch 22 and probably true. I never thought of it that way before.
 

spekkeh

Banned
hmmmm you know, how about this kinda generalization safe statement?


If you enjoy tweaking stats and characters and builds and what not in a video game. You'd probably enjoy building a pc.


They are quite similar itches, for me at the very least.


imo the biggest problem with pc building atm is that, if it all works, its great! it's easy! But fuck when something isn't working. Taking things out one at a time trying to locate the issue. RMAing shit....
That's an interesting point. I was never completely PC, but there was a time I had PC as HQ. At that time I was pretty into crpgs, rts, etc. Now the moment a game asks me to grind, tweak stats, create a build, manage inventory, I immediately take out the disc and decide (or at least pretend) to do something useful with my life.

It's not completely 1:1. I still like to build a pc, because there's things like physical wires and chips and expectations. I never do anymore though because in terms of effort you have to put in I'm like no thanks, my time is too precious. In my undoubtedly biased eyes pc gaming is for hobbyists or high school / college students. As are the games that go with it (although there's probably an older cohort that rediscovers it for SimCity like games).
 

nbthedude

Member
That's an interesting point. I was never completely PC, but there was a time I had PC as HQ. At that time I was pretty into crpgs, rts, etc. Now the moment a game asks me to grind, tweak stats, create a build, manage inventory, I immediately take out the disc and decide (or at least pretend) to do something useful with my life.

It's not completely 1:1. I still like to build a pc, because there's things like physical wires and chips and expectations. I never do anymore though because in terms of effort you have to put in I'm like no thanks, my time is too precious. In my undoubtedly biased eyes pc gaming is for hobbyists or high school / college students. As are the games that go with it (although there's probably an older cohort that rediscovers it for SimCity like games).

If you haven't built a PC in a while, you have no idea how easy it is now and how much autoconfiguration there is in BIOS and in Windows that all happens behind the scenes.

My friend who has never so much seen a harddrive before built his first gaming PC last month. He used an online tutorial. It took him 1 hour and he had no idea what he was doing beforehand.

Same pretty much goes for Steam (which auto updates games) and Games themselves (which usually have "High," Mediuim" and Low" settings unless you want to tinker). Stuff is way, way less time consuming than it used to be and so much of it is simplified and automated. You still CAN get into the fiddly bits if you want, but they are buried now and most of it is handled pretty well automatically.
 

spekkeh

Banned
I meant more like pc gaming in general.

(and I also didn't mean it was difficult, it's pretty easy, I have a PhD in computer science in any case, just... hassle)

(and it was a bit of hyperbole, that's just one of the reasons making up why I don't PC game much anymore, safe very interesting Indies like Dear Esther or Proteus)
 

Orin GA

I wish I could hat you to death
Unfortunately Steam really screws up if you dont have any internet connection

Offline mode may work, but the next time some games disappear from the list and you have to connect and rescan or redownload them. Impossible to have a laptop and stay in a place for a month without any internet connection with Steam. Something will eventually screw Steam and you have to find a Wifi spot. Problem is I installed Steam on an external HDD, so I cant carry it with me

The irony is that just as I was thinking of buying next gen consoles, they screw up too with offline play.

So the solution is to have a pirate copy installed instead of the official version, to ensure flawless play without internet connection. This goes for the Steam exclusives only.

Same goes for games that require authentification (Batman AA etc)

I also play on PC since the early 90s and I used to play on the Amiga before that.
The only reason I'd ever buy I console would be for fighters, but since I found GGPO and bought an arcade stick, I dont need a console anymore.

Besides with so few PS3 and Xbox 360 exclusives, they advertise and overhype them so much, you'd think they would be the second coming. But in reality they were nothing special gameplay wise, except some unique music, dialogues and FMV,

Ironic that games like Ni no Kuni are overhyped, but after a few months, gamers realize they werent anything special anyway.

After the end of the Dreamcast, consoles would never be the same again. I liked that console a lot.

But now consoles became PCs. You dont feel that special something older consoles had and which were unique. Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Jaguar, 3DO, Amiga CD, Sega CD, Neo Geo, PSX etc Maybe the Wii U and 3DS hold something of that old vibe, but Nintendo's policies have changed too when compared to the past.

now you just have a plastic box without any attachment. they became anonymous just like PCs.

Hence why I prefer now to have a PC too. I build mine a couple of years back so I made few blunders. Next time I'll be more careful

I.....i CANT.....
 

Unai

Member
This thread convinced me. I am just going to make a "PC Games Optimizing Mod" that simply switches the labels on "Ultra" and "Medium" settings and inverts "highest" and "medium" descriptors in all games without the user knowing it.

They will be amazed at their performance and the visual fidelity. They will shower me with money and I will be an internet hero.



That is a pretty amusing catch 22 and probably true. I never thought of it that way before.

Jokes aside, it would per could a thread comparing medium, high and ultra in several games.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I've reached the age where I just don't care about dealing with those headaches anymore, however minor they may be.

What age would that be? Will I reach it soon? I'm already 35 with kids and not a whole lot of free time and all, I should prepare myself for when I approach said age. ;P
 

szaromir

Banned
Fan conversions like Crusader Kings 2 becoming an accurate war, royalty, and politics simulator of the Song of Ice and Fire world with the Crusader Kings 2: A Game of Thrones mod. (Eastern Continent of Essos coming soon.)
That is a serious downgrade from the original setting of the game.
 
And in the spirit of this thread, I'll just throw out there that this thing is amazingly capable for couch surfing. And when you start up your game, just pick up your 360 controller. Perfection.

wireless-touch-keyboard-k400-amr-glamour-images.png

I really should get one of these. I still use a standard wireless keyboard/mouse when my PC is out in the living room.

I wonder how that thing is with playing point-and-click adventure games.

Edit: Oh, thought that was one of those little handheld combos.
 

GamerSciz

Member
I build my own gaming rig to play graphic intensive games like BF3 and soon BF4. Shooters will almost ALWAYS be a better experience with keyboard and mouse. But exclusives like Killzone, and Uncharted on PS3 make me want the console side too.
 

jordisok

Member
I agree, it's great. I've reached the age where I just don't care about dealing with those headaches anymore, however minor they may be. With next-gen consoles hopefully becoming 1080p standard for games I'm making the jump. Convenience has become so important for me.

I agree re: convenience, its super frustrating to feel like you're jumping through hoops.

To me though convenience = Open steam > server list > favourites > launch from list of my go to servers in all my MP games.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Hey, has anyone here played The Age of Decadence? It sounds fantastic.
Its in beta right? I haven't tried the beta, but it looks pretty damn amazing from the videos I've seen. Have you tried it yet?
Thanks for the heads up, trying this tonight.
What is the model of the monitor? I've been looking into getting a 120hz panel, but not sure which one to get.
That's the Samsung S23A750D, which isn't made anymore. The current favorite is the ASUS VG248QE. It's matte though. There's a guy on another forum (Overclock.net and HardForum), Callsign Vega. This guy is the preeminent display guru, and was the owner of the insane display setup above. You can pay him $50 to replace the matte with a gloss finish for better colors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQm1v5UJ1y4
 

Sentenza

Member
What's baffling to me in these threads is that people who use arguments like "Looking at options is too mentally taxing for me" expect even to be taken seriously or respected for their opinion.
 

Calvarok

Banned
I resent the term "Hardcore Gamer" being code for "I can't enjoy a game unless it is an example of the absolute bleeding edge in technology."

I simply don't care about chasing better graphics at greater expense.

Being a PC gamer doesn't make you a shallow, eye-candy obsessed gamer. There are plenty of other reasons to be a PC gamer. And of course there's nothing wrong with enjoying visual fidelity and wanting to get as much as possible.

But why on earth would having an expensive, exquisitely self-assembled gaming PC mean that you're more of a "Hardcore Gamer" than a console player? That doesn't make you a "Hardcore Gamer", it makes you a "Hardcore Technology Purchaser and Assembler".

It has nothing to do with the act of actually gaming. Because after you've got all your stuff together, in the end, you still have to sit on your ass and hammer inputs just like everyone else. And that's what gaming actually is.

Being hardcore doesn't mean having a specific opinion on what is moral for gaming companies to implement in their products. It just means playing a lot of games and keeping up with gaming news. Your views on said news and your platform of choice has nothing to do with it.

What this thread should be titled is:

"Why the PC should become the home base for every hardcore gamer with adequate disposable income who wants to own the most powerful gaming platform and disagrees with the way the policies and projected policies of the console market."
 
"Why the PC should become the home base for every hardcore gamer with adequate disposable income who wants to own the most powerful gaming platform and disagrees with the way the policies and projected policies of the console market."
You can even take power out of the equation entirely and recommend PC as the most flexible gaming platform. Flexible in choice of vendor for software and hardware, choice of components in your rig, choice of peripherals and user interface, choice to mod or tweak or keep things vanilla, choice to go in depth with graphics options to prioritize high framerates, consistent framerates, IQ, or just to remove some graphical artifacts that drive you nuts.

There's a lot to love even if you don't have the latest hardware.
 

Vidpixel

Member
I would love to get into playing tech-heavy games on a PC, but I'm simply at a point in my life right now where I have to dedicate my time and money on other things. For me, I just like the convenience of buying a single console and not having to worry about upgrading it or anything like that, since developers will always have to build their experiences around this set hardware.

The benefits of owning a great PC cannot be overstated, though, and I completely acknowledge the advantages that it has.
 
What's baffling to me in these threads is that people who use arguments like "Looking at options is too mentally taxing for me" expect even to be taken seriously or respected for their opinion.

It's a valid argument, plug and play is one of the strongest aspects of console gaming. Hell according to Nvidia even most PC gamers don't play with settings:

Nvidia announced a huge game changer at GeForce LAN 2012 in Shanghai, China with the unveiling of the ultra-cool GTX GeForce 690. The company didn't stop there, as Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang also revealed the cloud-based project called the "GeForce Experience".

The service aims to simplify any hardship involved in configuring graphical settings for any of your favorite games; providing both the smoothest and visually-optimal experience possible. While some enthusiasts may not encounter many difficulties while configuring their games, Nvidia's research shows that “four out of five gamers play games at their default settings,” Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang pointed out. “Most gamers simply don't have the ability or the patience to configure each one of the games specifically for their PC.”

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-experience-settings-software,15491.html
 
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