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[Raistlin]

I believe the 360 has a tri core 3.2ghz processor. So yeah. Not great.

Not to mention the 360 is two threads per core. IIRC, Espresso cores are single-threaded.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Wow, I guess that rumor of three Broadway's clocked at 1.24GHz wasn't far off. I hope to god the rumours of the GPU being a GPGPU are true or else next gen ports are gonna suck on the Wii U.

That one is actually true Iwata confirmed that himself.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Except, you know, ARM CPUs haven't been in-order since the Cortex A9.

I always love it when people call posters "morons" while posting fundamentally wrong information to correct them.

Which a majority of phones are, especially the people who said "my two year old smartphone is faster than that".

 

[Vestal]

An Espresso clocked the same as Xenon totally destroys it, we are not talking about an Xcpu clocked at 3.0Ghz have the same power of the Ycpu clocked at 3.2Ghz but more likely of an Xcpu clocked at 1.5Ghz have the same power of a Ycpu clocked at 3.0Ghz.

It better when its fighting against 7 year old released hardware. But its not clocked at that is it?

 

[darkistheway]

My original spec should play last year's titles easily on default settings at 1080p.
The one you quoted should play current and future titles at 1080p and default settings (or higher) with no problem.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. There is an amazing PC gaming thread which provides the ideal tested solution for your budget: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=493301

Remember though, the build I posted doesn't include optical drive, casing, operating system, monitor, KB/M, speakers, etc. Things may vary but yeah... read Hazaro's thread.

Awesome, thanks. I will check that thread out.

 

[EviLore]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

 

[Meelow]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

But can it make me coffee?

 

[seattle6418]

I think this is where the rubber hits the road with the bind Nintendo is in.

On one hand, I tend to think Nintendo is sincere when they feel that pure, red ocean competition with the other guys isn't going to work for them. What other people call "gimmicks", are Nintendo differentiating the experience their stuff offers. Those "gimmicks" also allows their own developers to create content that has some unique edge you'll never see elsewhere.

They also don't want to price themselves out of the mass market at launch. In case nobody has noticed, 7 years into this generation and the PS360 aren't $99 (not without a subscription trick on Microsoft's part). They apparently are even selling Wii U at a slight loss, something they don't like to do, ever.

Therefore, the budget of any Nintendo hardware generally can't be balanced in a way that equals parting out a gaming PC the way many folks approach it. Their priorities are going to be different.

On the other hand, Nintendo seems to realize after the Wii, that they've got to balance their platforms to meet certain demographics half way. So they're on a precarious rail. As I remarked upthread, the fact that a rushed port of something like ACIII looks and runs as well as it does on Wii U should be a big hint that Nintendo's strategy for designing the system isn't as "illogical" as some would claim. We've already got people freaking believing that the Zelda demo will never happen in a real game, because now that they've got one number to attach to the system, it's like literally a Wii that outputs 720p or something. In spite of the launch games right in front of them. For example: look at the scale and complexity of ACIII. Now imagine EAD and internal developers making a Zelda game, fully optimized and designed for the hardware.

I'm not panicking about the console's future potential there.

But it does remain that Nintendo is in a very uncomfortable position. The harsh reality is that they have to serve many masters. A lot of people don't seem to recognize or accept the consequences of that, merely characterizing them as entirely stupid and oblivious for not "competing" directly with companies that have different aims, and are in different situations.

And it's like nobody is looking at how dangerous that route is. Sony sure is doing great these days as a company, for instance.

I think this gimmick mention allows me to better express my thinking.

We can´t judge the WiiU hardware wihtout knowing if they pad will be a hit or not. If the pad is a hit, they are geniuses and they made all the right choices to get enough power with their budget.

If the pad is irrelevant, a virtual boy like flop, then they are cooked. Because if that happens, they used old tech for nothing.

And that´s the concern. I think it´s very tough to promote a revolution in the industry two times in a row. I don´t think the pad will ever be usefull like they are selling us. Nintendo has a track record of both hits and turds. Actually, in the console market the Wii was the ace in their sleeves, and i´m not convinced they have another one.

It´s also pretty tough because they had nowhere to go. They couldn´t compete with the high tech guys (too risky) and they had to do something out of the blue because that´s what everybody expects from them. They made all their bets in the tablet controller.

Following a huge hit is much more difficult than producing a hit.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Alright. Decided to upgrade GPU with 6770.

CPU: 3.2GHz Triple Core AMD Athlon II X3 450 - $65
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6770 GPU with 1GBs of VRAM - $100
Motherboard: BIOSTAR A780L3B Micro ATX - $45
RAM: 2GB of Kingston DDR3 - $10
Power Supply: Athena Power 400W PSU - $20
Hard Drive: 250GB WD Caviar Blue 7200RPM - $50
Controller: Kindle Fire: $199

TOTAL: $489.

fixt

 

[zruben]

whatever about the clock speed... I just hope there's a homebrew channel on wiiU, that thing made my wii so much better (media playing + region free)

 

[MrHicks]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

ouch

 

[quest]

Indeed.

PS3 / 360 were CPU centric consoles.

WiiU / PS4 / 720 are GPU centric consoles.

The time and need for super fast, very, very hot CPU's is now gone.

That's a nice little console Nintendo have gotten to retail for $300, esp if you factor in the cost of the Tablet controller.

First Party games are going to look unreal and next gen third party ports should be possible with down ports if the publishers feel there is a market for them on WiiU.

Well done Nintendo ! .

The PS3 was CPU centric. The 360 is all about the amazing Xenos GPU which was a head of its time. With its unified sharers it is very efficient and could render a ton of verts. This was when NVIDIA was dismissing unified sharers.

 

[Fourth Storm]

all of amd's gpu offerings from the R7XXX line onward are "gpgpu". iwata's just parroting a bullet point. the REAL question is: how many GFLOPS will the gpu be able to spare? :teehee

While matching Xbox360 and only rendering to a single screen? How about 40 to 80 shaders? So 44 to 88 GFLOPS?

 

[BlueMagic]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

on the other hand, ssb4/mario galaxy hd (Y)

 

[Mastperf]

Can't wait until people get shocked at PS4 and Xbox720 CPU's being clocked at less than 2ghz.

Jaguar cores are capped at 2GHZ...

8 cores with multi-threading will be how they overcome that.

 

[Neuromancer]

EviLore dropping bombs. God damn!

 

[Twenty7KVN]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

I can't tell when you're joking sometimes.

 

[onQ123]

Wow, I guess that rumor of three Broadway's clocked at 1.24GHz wasn't far off. I hope to god the rumours of the GPU being a GPGPU are true or else next gen ports are gonna suck on the Wii U.

they are true but the Vita & iPhone\iPad & many other products also have GPGPUs now a days.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

fixt

You forgot to add blu-ray drive to the mix if you want to match or beat WiiU.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Indeed.

PS3 / 360 were CPU centric consoles.

WiiU / PS4 / 720 are GPU centric consoles.

The time and need for super fast, very, very hot CPU's is now gone.

That's a nice little console Nintendo have gotten to retail for $300, esp if you factor in the cost of the Tablet controller.

First Party games are going to look unreal and next gen third party ports should be possible with down ports if the publishers feel there is a market for them on WiiU.

Well done Nintendo ! .

Exactly.

 

[CambriaRising]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

I said god damnnn

 

[Haint]

Well we knew it was going to be real bad when that developer joked about people benchmarking it against a Pentium 3.

 

[Linkhero1]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Someone get me some damn Vicodin because I'm experiencing severe chest pains

 

[Cosmozone]

EvilLore's post is pretty funny considering he OP'd that system wars thread with the "keep it civil blah..".

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Oh you.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I can't tell when you're joking sometimes.

Sounds serious, as it is all fair to point out as true. Still, this is the glass is (more than) half-empty viewpoint on Wii U.

 

[D-e-f-]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

350 = premium price? Come on now ...

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

EvilLore's post is pretty funny considering he OP'd that system wars thread with the "keep it civil blah..".

We're all in a den of cunts.

 

[kinggroin]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

What's your NNID?

 

[USC-fan]

all of amd's gpu offerings from the R7XXX line onward are "gpgpu". iwata's just parroting a bullet point. the REAL question is: how many GFLOPS will the gpu be able to spare? :teehee

Don't do the math, its not pretty.

 

[The Lamp]

And they're selling this console "at a loss"....hahahahaha

 

[Mastperf]

The 360 really isn't the cpu centric console people are painting it as. It offloaded a fair amount of things to the cpu, but the design was very gpu centric.

 

[onQ123]

EvilLore's post is pretty funny considering he OP'd that system wars thread with the "keep it civil blah..".

It's a trap!

 

[i-Lo]

350 = premium price? Come on now ...

For that tech. Yes. Some people expect that if PS4 and 720 don't have that same price they'll be doomed. What a joke.

 

[Fourth Storm]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Wii BC became too high a priority it seems. I mean, I remember when I was a kid and my mom would ask me of a new console, "Does it play the old games?" But it seems like an ill-thought out sacrifice considering how many casual households have a Wii. Question is, do those households even really care about playing old games, or are they over them?

Of course, as long as NSMBWii is still selling for $50, Nintendo have every reason to make sure the ability is there to play Wii games...even if they are no longer making them.

 

[Raistlin]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

ethered

 

[MDX]

Not to mention the 360 is two threads per core. IIRC, Espresso cores are single-threaded.

From what I understand you dont need threads when you implement "Out out order execution"

So its either in order with SMT or its out of order without the need of SMT

 

[boiled goose]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design.

Disagree. It seems deliberately gimped, not incompetently so.

Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin,

Not sure, but probably.

and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy.

Agree.

Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

I think Reggie believed the ports would actually turn out superior. Turns out they are not. Imagine his surprise when he can't even claim as good as current gen.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Not sure most people will care about the hardware itself, but the experience it can provide. The resistive touch screen will likely affect the user experience especially given what people today expect touchscreens to be able to do (e.g pinch to zoom).
The bad battery life most certainly will affect the experience.
The streaming distance limits, might not be that big of a deal, but of course limit the possible use.

 

[apana]

And they're selling this console "at a loss"....hahahahaha

What's so funny? I think you guys underestimate how difficult it is to build and launch these consoles.

 

[H_Prestige]

350 = premium price? Come on now ...

It is a premium for current gen performance. MS has been selling a similar box for 199.

I also hate $40 wii controllers, which you have to buy if you don't want to play NSMB by yourself.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Except the jaguar cores will be much higher IPC than the modified gamecube CPU. If the jaguar is anything like the bobcat it will be an amazing CPU. They are also beefing up the FPU on the jaguar. If Nintendo wanted to use such a old CPU they should of used a GPU based on the latest Amd GPU. Much better compute performance.

Bobcat was great... compared to an Atom.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Alright. Decided to upgrade GPU with 6770.

CPU: 3.2GHz Triple Core AMD Athlon II X3 450 - $65
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6770 GPU with 1GBs of VRAM - $100
Motherboard: BIOSTAR A780L3B Micro ATX - $45
RAM: 2GB of Kingston DDR3 - $10
Power Supply: Athena Power 400W PSU - $20
Hard Drive: 250GB WD Caviar Blue 7200RPM - $50

TOTAL: $290.

You don't have to pay 5.000 workers every month, commercials, packaging, R&D, estates, etc.

The world is not black & white.

 

[Sandfox]

I guess Nintendo's only goal was to surpass the Wii's power. Its disappointing for people who expecting multiplat games for whatever reasons but it makes sense given the thing Nintendo has been saying since the Wii came out. By the time the next consoles come out the Wii U will probably be the lowest priced console on the market so they will try to use that to their advantage and the overall sales of the console will probably decide what the console after the Wii U is like.

 

[grimshawish]

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Missing a lot out in your equation there.
Not sure what the Soccer Mom comment is about; but ack well.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Isn't it the CPU that's supposed to be based on Watson?

Can't that terrible if so.

 

[Osiris]

From what I understand you dont need threads when you implement "Out out order execution"

So its either in order with SMT or its out of order without the need of SMT

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

 

[KojiKnight]

I see some people don't know how much a pain in the ass drawing is on a capacitive (multi touch) screen. Very imprecise, and when one of your key selling points is drawing messages in miiverse... I'm fine with that. I especially can't think of many situations where multitouch would even be useful in games, especially when you have a full controller.

Multi-touch is a bad arguement, there are many GOOD reasons to hate on the wii U people should try instead.

 

[Lupin the Third]

 

[seattle6418]

Sounds serious, as it is all fair to point out as true. Still, this is the glass is (more than) half-empty viewpoint on Wii U.

I read these posts (Evil Lore´s one) like "ok, if he is saying what i´m thinking, then it means i can type what i think about this".

System warz is something different. There are some flaws that are so evident that most level headed gamers will agree, so that´s why everybody is saying, typing and explaining the things we are criticizing.

 

[OniShiro]

The problem is not so much a weak CPU but a not very powerfull GPGPU.

If they really wanted to go that route they should have gone with a beast of a GPGPU, but the Wii U GPGPU seems to be a 4650 which is not very capable.