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[USC-fan]

That 35watt GPU is on a 40nm process, Wii U's GPU is likely Oban, meaning it's 32nm, and SoC designs also shave wattage, not to mention that the CPU we are talking about is less than 2watts a core @ 45nm. Give the wattage talk a break, 50-60watts is the likely usage if we are talking about 2012 PSUs and their relatively standard 80% efficiency.

Sign. Why do I have to keep repeating the same posts. Just go back to the last page and I went into detail about psu. Efficiency has nothing to do with Max power consumption. 50 is on the high end of the range and of you extend higher by 20%.

Going way back to march some one has posted the correct specs but you tossed them away.

The Wii U GPU won't be built around or based on Southern Islands. From everything we know, it's a based on R700 but customized beyond recognition. It's unlike any off-the-shelf AMD GPU.

I talked to bgassassin a few days ago, and I believe we concluded that the chip is probably pretty slow on paper, maybe 300, 400GFLOPS or something, but extended with a couple of shortcuts to accelerate certain common, taxing operations.

300-400 is the correct range and he posted this a long time ago....

You dismissed by saying the " It is bare minimum 600Gflops," but now that is your best case...?

 

[shinra-bansho]

No, that is only part of Wii U's target audience, obviously a lot of gamers own a Wii, you just can't hit 8+ games per console sold, if your audience is just playing Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Wii Play. Also as I mention Wii U is an upgrade for those people who bought Wii as a second console too, people who own both a Wii and 360 or PS3, and there are still gamers who don't own PS360s, so they have a very clear path from their Wii to Wii U, as it's a similar jump from Xbox to 360.

Firstly, calculating attach rates from shipment numbers is inherently flawed.

Secondly, purchasing additional software over the course of 6 years doesn't really dispel that the initial USP that captured the expanded audience was motion control. Are you really arguing against the notion that motion control drove the Wii's success?

The route to success for Nintendo is capturing that audience again. It may not be the only audience they're after, but it's clearly the main one.

As for being an upgrade from a PS360; Nintendo has yet to show me why I should "upgrade" and seem reluctant to even unambiguously show me it is an "upgrade" from my current HD console at all, let alone enough of an upgrade for me to need it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479901

I read it somewhere else, but this will do, the first 5 months Xbox 360 has sold ~1m units, that isn't a very good number...

The thread is wrong. I'm quite sure it's pointed out in the thread that it's wrong. For the first 13 weeks of 2012 the 360 sold through ~1.8M units worldwide.

 

[Nibel]

The gamepad has dozens of features - but I don't think that the controller is as expensive as everybody thinks it is.

 

[MadeInBeats]

@USC-fan & BG

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39306355&postcount=4531

Gahiggidy I'm sorry but I won't post any photos of the power brick, it's nothing interesting though. It's bigger than Wii's I think, the input is 230V, 50 Hz, 0.9 A and the output is 15V, 5.0A. Obviously

I think you should both think about shelving the debate for now because it's based on a conspiracy theory. I'm sure it must be getting to the painful stage by now. The only solution is the agree to disagree, surely.

the guy basically manhandles the controller and forces me to equip the cricket racket or something like that

That would be the cricket bat. We use them here in England to defend ourselves from English crickets which average the size of Jack Russell terriers and have been known to eat small children. The French use them to shape cheeses with.

 

[z0m3le]

Sign. Why do I have to keep repeating the same posts. Just go back to the last page and I went into detail about psu. Efficiency has nothing to do with Max power consumption. 50 is on the high end of the range and of you extend higher by 20%.

Going way back to march some one has posted the correct specs but you tossed them away.


300-400 is the correct range and he posted this a long time ago....

You dismissed by saying the " It is bare minimum 600Gflops," but now that is your best case...?

Yes, I dismissed 2 people speculating about the GPU, and even now one of those 2 people has told you 480GFLOPs is his minimum range, there is no correct specs there. The number I have ~600GFLOPs is from someone who should know the specs, he has said it, and it does make perfect sense, especially considering what we know about AMD's embedded GPUs, This is also a custom part.

As for the wattage, I'll break down what it means, a 35watt GPU shrinks down to ~25watts + the 2watt cores for the CPU, would give you 30-35watts for the GPU/CPU together, another ~15watts for the entire system leaves you with 45-50watts, even this example falls inside what the Xbox360 Slim is doing with it's 135watt PSU. http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-inside-the-new-250gb-xbox-360-slim/3
90watts from Slim during RDR. Lets stop pretending that PSUs haven't improved since 2005, some would argue that PSUs have had their biggest change during this last 7 years than ever before thanks to more power hungry GPUs.

Firstly, calculating attach rates from shipment numbers is inherently flawed.

I think my point goes beyond what you feel is the correct numbers for attach rates, in fact I didn't even put a solid attach rate number, the point was that the assumption that Wii owners at large only bought the console and played Wii Sports was wrong, and that there is obviously a lot of real gamers if the system has sold 800m+ units of software.

Secondly, purchasing additional software over the course of 6 years doesn't really dispel that the initial USP that captured the expanded audience was motion control. Are you really arguing against the notion that motion control drove the Wii's success?

This wasn't my point, my point is that the Wii Audience has real gamers among the people who only bought it for Wii Sports, I am not saying Wii U will sell as well as the Wii for instance, and maybe this is where you are misunderstanding me.

The route to success for Nintendo is capturing that audience again. It may not be the only audience they're after, but it's clearly the main one.

I won't argue that motion gamers are a large market for Nintendo, I was simply talking about the audiences I mentioned, which does somewhat include them as Wii upgraders.

As for being an upgrade from a PS360; Nintendo has yet to show me why I should "upgrade" and seem reluctant to even unambiguously show me it is an "upgrade" from my current HD console at all, let alone enough of an upgrade for me to need it.The thread is wrong. I'm quite sure it's pointed out in the thread that it's wrong. For the first 13 weeks of 2012 the 360 sold through ~1.8M units worldwide.

Wii U is an upgrade from Wii, as I said multiple times in my post, not from PS360 owners, though a lot of them could feel quite differently, I for one being a PS3/360 owner do see Wii U as a next gen console and thus an upgrade from ALL of my current consoles. In large part thanks to the controller. As for that thread being wrong, I am unsure of your source, but wasn't May's NPD ~160k 360s sold? that fits well with that thread title, I also didn't get the info from that thread, but got it online from an article, I'm sure if you can find the NPDs for all 5 months, you could easily prove or disprove yourself, my comment was that it was selling about as good as the Wii did last year, and I believe the Wii sold much better than that, http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-5...-around-console-sales-for-nintendo-this-year/ 4.5 million in the US alone in 2011.

 

[USC-fan]

What are the changes to psu? Slim x360 came out less than 2 years ago btw....

Just last month you were saying 768 gflops. Why do you keep dropping? I been saying the same thing...

 

[D-e-f-]

The Pikmin themselves are much shorter than grass blades. I'm not sure how you'd render specs of dirt and decaying leaves.

True, didn't consider that as far leaves. But a little layer of dirt akin to how games like Uncharted handle sand or snow would've been awesome. So that it doesn't feel like you're walking on a texture but actual dirt or soft soil. Or one of those fancy mapping features that takes simple polygon models and makes them look like complex geometry.

 

[z0m3le]

What are the changes to psu? Slim x360 came out less than 2 years ago btw....

Just last month you were saying 768 gflops. Why do you keep dropping? I been saying the same thing...

You were comparing the PSU in the Wii U to the Wii's which is a 2006 part, PSUs have improved, there are plenty of articles, just google it.

The difference between then and now is based on what I've been told and also much more recently the reality of the PSU, but I was never expecting Wii U to be a beast, and that seems to be your problem, that you need to irrationally prove that Wii U is right at PS360's performance level, well it's really hard to even come up with that sort of performance level to be perfectly honest, you basically have to say "I want to create something no more powerful than PS360" and then pay more in order to do it, since AMD doesn't create a GPU that is 300GFLOPs that they can just stick in the console, they would have to design a whole new GPU in order to realize that goal, when they could in fact just take this GPU we keep talking about (e6760) shrink it to 32nm and put it in Wii U for clearly better performance.

I understand if you want to keep your expectations in check or something else similar to that, but to say pre-mature speculation between BG and Wssipel is the correct specs, and then deny any input from BG is exactly what BG was talking about, selective reading. You have to look at all evidence, especially if your "evidence" is two people talking about specs who have no better idea about what is in it than you or I.

 

[MadeInBeats]

I understand if you want to keep your expectations in check or something else similar to that, but to say pre-mature speculation between BG and Wssipel is the correct specs, and then deny any input from BG is exactly what BG was talking about, selective reading. You have to look at all evidence, especially if your "evidence" is two people talking about specs who have no better idea about what is in it than you or I.

And a user who said he thinks the wattage on the brick for a prototype is this or that. It's madness to continue the argument. Actual FACTS will arise sooner or later.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think my point goes beyond what you feel is the correct numbers for attach rates, in fact I didn't even put a solid attach rate number, the point was that the assumption that Wii owners at large only bought the console and played Wii Sports was wrong, and that there is obviously a lot of real gamers if the system has sold 800m+ units of software.
This wasn't my point, my point is that the Wii Audience has real gamers among the people who only bought it for Wii Sports, I am not saying Wii U will sell as well as the Wii for instance, and maybe this is where you are misunderstanding me.
I won't argue that motion gamers are a large market for Nintendo, I was simply talking about the audiences I mentioned, which does somewhat include them as Wii upgraders.

I don't think I said anywhere that people only played Wii Sports on their Wii. I didn't say anywhere that people didn't buy software on the Wii.

The selling point of the Wii was, however, motion control and by corollary Wii Sports that served as a killer app for this novelty. The expanded audience bought-into motion control.

Attracting the expanded audience is key to the Wii U's success, and the key, if any, to attracting the expanded audience is the Pad. If Nintendo thought they didn't need a "hook" to entice this market, then the touchscreen controller wouldn't exist.

Wii U is an upgrade from Wii, as I said multiple times in my post, not from PS360 owners, though a lot of them could feel quite differently, I for one being a PS3/360 owner do see Wii U as a next gen console and thus an upgrade from ALL of my current consoles. In large part thanks to the controller. As for that thread being wrong, I am unsure of your source, but wasn't May's NPD ~160k 360s sold? that fits well with that thread title, I also didn't get the info from that thread, but got it online from an article, I'm sure if you can find the NPDs for all 5 months, you could easily prove or disprove yourself, my comment was that it was selling about as good as the Wii did last year, and I believe the Wii sold much better than that, http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-5...-around-console-sales-for-nintendo-this-year/ 4.5 million in the US alone in 2011.

I'm not disputing the Wii U is in pure technical terms, an upgrade from current gen HD consoles. I'm stating that Nintendo seem to have no intention of showing me this. That and it may not be a sufficient upgrade, for me personally, having already had an HD console for several years.

As for the sales, the source is Nintendo: http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471891

I don't dispute that they're sales have fallen (in the US); I disputed the number you put forward, which was wrong. The US market is collapsing and the 360 needs a price cut. But at an ASP of $199 or lower (current ASP is around $270 iirc) it will be highly competitive as an "upgrade."

 

[z0m3le]

And a user who said he thinks the wattage on the brick for a prototype is this or that. It's madness to continue the argument. Actual FACTS will arise sooner or later.

I'm not worried either way, if the PSU is more powerful, the GPU is still going to be ~600GFLOPs, I've always thought the entire console will likely only use up to 80watts anyways, which was mostly based on the assumption that the CPU was going to eat up 20watts or so, but it's about half that if it's using an evolution of the Wii CPU core (476fp or something custom)

~600GFLOPs + Fixed Function Shaders is actually going to be fine for next gen I think, especially if XB3 does in fact only end up 4-6x more powerful than 360 (1-1.5TFLOPs) that puts it right about the same difference as GCN vs Xbox (8GFLOPs vs 21GFLOPs)

I don't think I said anywhere that people only played Wii Sports on their Wii. I didn't say anywhere that people didn't buy software on the Wii.

The selling point of the Wii was, however, motion control and by corollary Wii Sports that served as a killer app for this novelty. The expanded audience bought-into motion control.

Attracting the expanded audience is key to the Wii U's success, and the key, if any, to attracting the expanded audience is the Pad. If Nintendo thought they didn't need a "hook" to entice this market, then the touchscreen controller wouldn't exist.
I'm not disputing the Wii U is in pure technical terms, an upgrade from current gen HD consoles. I'm stating that Nintendo seem to have no intention of showing me this. That and it may not be a sufficient upgrade, for me personally, having already had an HD console for several years.

As for the sales, the source is Nintendo: http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471891

I don't dispute that they're sales have fallen (in the US); I disputed the number you put forward, which was wrong. The US market is collapsing and the 360 needs a price cut. But at an ASP of $199 or lower (current ASP is around $270 iirc) it will be highly competitive as an "upgrade."

I agree with what you are saying, so I'll just say this, With those 360 numbers, and 360s already selling for $200, do you really believe that 360 will sell well against Wii U @ $300? especially when XB3 is announced inside the next 12 months? I mean Wii U is bound to sell out this holiday, so I figure sales will likely stay strong into the next year somewhat, so what is your thoughts on 360? does it stay strong and become a problem for XB3 or does it die off pretty much like the Wii is doing and give way for the successor? I think that is the big question.

And remember a price drop doesn't always help sales, the GCN dropped to $100, and didn't really help sales much if memory severs.

 

[D-e-f-]

Nintendo, wake up! We are desperate for more concrete infos! Now we're analyzing and arguing over potential power bricks!

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

So...Scribblenauts. TOTALLY what I wanted. Like seriously, I couldn't shut up about the DS game even when I didn't own one. I can't wait!

 

[cyberheater]

Nintendo, wake up! We are desperate for more concrete infos! Now we're analyzing and arguing over potential power bricks!

Ninty said we'd get more info before E3. Nothing.

Ninty said we'd get more info after E3. Nothing.

Really, considering this is meant to launch in the next 3 to 4 months. The amount of news and excitement for this product is almost zero.

 

[z0m3le]

Ninty said we'd get more info before E3. Nothing.

Ninty said we'd get more info after E3. Nothing.

Really, considering this is meant to launch in the next 3 to 4 months. The amount of news and excitement for this product is almost zero.

Yet somehow it still has at least a couple articles a week that talks about it. Heck I am not even sure what competition it has going into this holiday season, I am not sure which games beyond halo 4 is even coming this year... it's almost like the entire industry is just going to sit back and let Wii U come out this holiday unanswered.

 

[Madn]

Interesting that neoGAF approves a slew of new members and the first thing they do is head straight to the WUST thread.

Well I saw everyone do it and thought it was a secret ritual

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Nintendo, wake up! We are desperate for more concrete infos! Now we're analyzing and arguing over potential power bricks!

Ninty doesn't care about you. Besides, we'll know a lot more in November. Just wait.

 

[cyberheater]

Yet somehow it still has at least a couple articles a week that talks about it. Heck I am not even sure what competition it has going into this holiday season, I am not sure which games beyond halo 4 is even coming this year... it's almost like the entire industry is just going to sit back and let Wii U come out this holiday unanswered.

I don't think MS or Sony are worried about WiiU. Apart from Halo 4. There doesn't appear to be any big hitters coming out in the same time period.

Certainly. Shortly before the Xbox 360 launched. The hype train was massive. Tons of videos and piccies from devs. The total opposite of what we're seeing today.

 

[z0m3le]

I don't think MS or Sony are worried about WiiU. Apart from Halo 4. There doesn't appear to be any big hitters coming out in the same time period.

Certainly. Shortly before the Xbox 360 launched. The hype train was massive. Tons of videos and piccies from devs. The total opposite of what we're seeing today.

You are comparing a modern console to last gen, many people will tell you the leap from Xbox to 360 had a whole lot more than just power behind it, it was about resolution and gpu feature changes that were massive... DX9 to DX11 really only improves lighting and tessellation, just consider that Crysis is a DX9 game and you'll see what I mean... or maybe you won't.

 

[Roo]

Interesting that neoGAF approves a slew of new members and the first thing they do is head straight to the WUST thread.

To be honest, if the new members are Nintendo fans, there's no safest place to stay than the WUSTs at least till they become full members. GAF is a mined field and they can get easily banned if they break the rules " protecting or defending" Nintendo from heated topics, haters and trolls.

You can tell... We lost some valuable users down the road waiting for Wii U news that limited themselves to only post here.
It's really hard to be a junior Nintendo fan

 

[cyberheater]

You are comparing a modern console to last gen, many people will tell you the leap from Xbox to 360 had a whole lot more than just power behind it, it was about resolution and gpu feature changes that were massive... DX9 to DX11 really only improves lighting and tessellation, just consider that Crysis is a DX9 game and you'll see what I mean... or maybe you won't.

I'm not talking feature set. I'm talking about the lack of hype train.

Certainly, Pre-E3 the hype was quite high. But the rather uninspiring E3 and almost zero information from Ninty or devs since is rather peculiar.

 

[D-e-f-]

To be honest, if the new members are Nintendo fans, there's no safest place to stay than the WUSTs at least till they become full members. GAF is a mined field and they can get easily banned if they break the rules " protecting or defending" Nintendo from heated topics, haters and trolls.

You can tell... We lost some valuable users down the road waiting for Wii U news that limited themselves to only post here.
It's really hard to be a junior Nintendo fan

Yup, that and I have no real intentions of leaving the safe zone. I've occasionally seen what mind numbing posts occur in the more general threads about Nintendo stuff.

Discussing and speculating what's new with Wii U is the sole reason I've signed up here anyway so I don't think I'll miss much

Though I think we should be safe in somewhat neutral topics that are about games in general (unless it's one of those "omg! next-gen" threads )

Console Wars could've been made by George Lucas 'cause I feel they get worse every time.

 

[z0m3le]

I'm not talking feature set. I'm talking about the lack of hype train.

Certainly, Pre-E3 the hype was quite high. But the rather uninspiring E3 and almost zero information from Ninty or devs since is rather peculiar.

I was pointing out the difference between last gen and the consoles this gen, all those pictures and dev talk was about what they would be able to do with the new consoles from a resolution and tech. This next gen won't be like that so it's not surprising really...

Also I think everyone sort of dropped the ball this last E3, Microsoft and especially Nintendo pulled off a very boring conference. I think Neogaf as a whole is just a bit shocked at how the Video Game industry is neglecting 2012.

 

[Rösti]

The context sounded more like he was trying to defend people that are "fanboys", which I haven't seen that label or assumption being thrown around in recent discussions anyway, by showing a company is doing the same thing. It's asinine regardless of who it comes from, company or individual.

I wasn't trying to defend any party, I just provided some examples that could be of relevance to the topic. It could have been worded better.

As for what a generation means, it just refers to a new descendant of, in this case, a product. So, just as with Wii, the Wii U is indeed a next generation console by common definition. However, as pointed out, some people think it has to do with hardware power etc. Much because of the "console wars" that started in 2005 when Microsoft and Sony (and Nintendo to some degrees with its revolution that when started up would make us say "wow") threw around various tech demos that didn't reflect much of what was possible through these systems at that time.

My intention was not to state any personal opinion, I just wanted to highlight yet another assertion regarding Wii U by an industry source.

 

[cyberheater]

I was pointing out the difference between last gen and the consoles this gen, all those pictures and dev talk was about what they would be able to do with the new consoles from a resolution and tech. This next gen won't be like that so it's not surprising really...

I remember a time when a new Nintendo console was a huge deal. How times have change.

Also I think everyone sort of dropped the ball this last E3, Microsoft and especially Nintendo pulled off a very boring conference. I think Neogaf as a whole is just a bit shocked at how the Video Game industry is neglecting 2012.

Yep. Worst E3 I can remember. But considering MS and Sony are near the end of their console cycle, it's hardly surprising.

Nintendo on the other hand failed very badly to create the hype required to kick start a new console. They almost managed to unhype the machine. Worst console launch at E3 ever.

 

[z0m3le]

I remember a time when a new Nintendo console was a huge deal. How times have change.



Yep. Worst E3 I can remember. But considering MS and Sony are near the end of their console cycle, it's hardly surprising.

Nintendo on the other hand failed very badly to create the hype required to kick start a new console. They almost managed to unhype the machine. Worst console launch at E3 ever.

Sony had Vita too, and Microsoft was more worried about their tv services than gaming, so I wouldn't give either of them a pass to be honest, but at least Sony showed games, even if they were all for 2013.

 

[D-e-f-]

I remember a time when a new Nintendo console was a huge deal. How times have change.

It still is. The difference right now is that a lot of gamers and media people have gotten extremely cynical towards Nintendo because of the Wii and waggle this no online that. Since they didn't hit the world over the head with stuff that undeniably makes the point that Nintendo is cool again (like with the GameCube which was the cute little underdog with cool games as opposed to the Wii which many actively despised because of motion control and comparatively weak graphics and lack of online features on the level of the competition) we don't hear a lot of "yea, Wii U gon' be awesome dude!!!" from press or internet dudes outside of mostly Nintendo fans.

This patronizing "Oh, Nintendo *smh*" attitude really grew into its own during the Wii generation and that is now affecting the Wii U because it retains the name, differentiates itself with a unique input interface that disrupts veteran gamers comfort zone and doesn't immediately wow people with graphics (partially because of the time it's launching) again.

It's still a big deal in the way that everybody and their grandma loves to bash the system based on hearsay and barely glancing at the lackluster E3 showing without actually taking a deep look at what's there. It it weren't a big deal, nobody would care to talk about it one way or the other.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I agree with what you are saying, so I'll just say this, With those 360 numbers, and 360s already selling for $200, do you really believe that 360 will sell well against Wii U @ $300? especially when XB3 is announced inside the next 12 months? I mean Wii U is bound to sell out this holiday, so I figure sales will likely stay strong into the next year somewhat, so what is your thoughts on 360? does it stay strong and become a problem for XB3 or does it die off pretty much like the Wii is doing and give way for the successor? I think that is the big question.

And remember a price drop doesn't always help sales, the GCN dropped to $100, and didn't really help sales much if memory severs.

Yes, there's a $200 SKU; but the ASP was $287 in May. The majority of sales are of models with HDDs and/or Kinect. The "Wii upgrader" friendly SKUs i.e. those with Kinect are still $300+.

So yes, I think a price drop will make it highly competitive.

The 360's current (US) market position isn't really akin to the GCN's 6th gen irrelevancy. It currently occupies the top spot. And it's equally worth noting the PS2 was still able to often outsell the 360 for a considerable period after the latter launched, iirc.

 

[Meelow]

I remember a time when a new Nintendo console was a huge deal. How times have change.



Yep. Worst E3 I can remember. But considering MS and Sony are near the end of their console cycle, it's hardly surprising.

Nintendo on the other hand failed very badly to create the hype required to kick start a new console. They almost managed to unhype the machine. Worst console launch at E3 ever.

Technically though Sony did have a really bad E3 2006 and not just that the PS3 was $600 which made it worse.

 

[lwilliams3]

Sign. Why do I have to keep repeating the same posts. Just go back to the last page and I went into detail about psu. Efficiency has nothing to do with Max power consumption. 50 is on the high end of the range and of you extend higher by 20%.

Going way back to march some one has posted the correct specs but you tossed them away.


300-400 is the correct range and he posted this a long time ago....

You dismissed by saying the " It is bare minimum 600Gflops," but now that is your best case...?

Wsippel was throwing out some theories there (note the word "probably"); he definitely didn't state it as the "correct specs". This was also before we found out more about the CPU, in which Wsippel and BGassassin are now considering the GPU to be a bit stronger due to the possible need to do some GPGPU functions. If the CPU was closer in architecture to the 476FP, it may also require less wattage then anticipated.

 

[Comandr]

I remember a time when a new Nintendo console was a huge deal. How times have change.

I believe that a new Nintendo anything is a big deal. For gamers in my age bracket, the NES was their first real game system, and first true love. I believe many people want to see Nintendo succeed merely from a nostalgic standpoint. Have I been largely disappointed by what Nintendo is doing lately? Yes. While on some point I agree with Miyamoto with his "gameplay over power" mantra, but I do firmly believe that greater power yields more sophisticated gameplay and increased potential for immersion. Prime for instance would never have been possible on the 64, even if we could have had a metroid in the vein of Goldeneye (a pivotal first person experience on a console.)

I have been riding the hype train since WUST1, checking back every day, sometimes dozens of times, devouring every post from BG, IdeaMan, etc. My hype levels were nearly in the tens of thousands. As e3 approached and certainly after it passed, I realized many of our collective expectations would not be met, and I am left with a bad taste in my mouth. Questioning what the hell is going on over at Nintendo, wondering for the first time in a long time if it's time to pass the baton along. A top tier franchise gets a new game. Release it on a 7 year old system despite its successor being out. Do the same thing for its sequel. Revise your handheld design. Skirt around the most glaring flaw. Show off new console, tell everyone it can do 1080p graphics. All games run in 720. Throw Pro controller in face of all the haters. Digital triggers.

I have come to a point of zen-like tranquility with Nintendo. I am letting go of my passionate feelings and I'm just going to let them do what they are going to do. There is no sense getting upset any more. I have decided that the wii u will probably just be my gateway to HD Nintendo games and a potential catalog of DD classics, and I'll just get an Xbox 720/Durango/8 whatever-whenever it decides to come out for my real next gen needs.

And before any of you start by saying that the wii u's full potential hasn't been tapped yet, fine sure. Say they squeeze out another 50%. All of that is going to be eaten by the GamePad. Because of that performance sink no wii u games are going to look as good as say-- Starwars 1313, which to my knowledge is being developed on real next gen dev kits. Which means those games are only going to look even better.


Is a new Nintendo thing a big deal, yeah sure. We'll see what they do this gen, because the wii only proved that Nintendo was forgettable. Ball's in your court, Iwata.

 

[lostinblue]

Technically though Sony did have a really bad E3 2006 and not just that the PS3 was $600 which made it worse.

Yeah, this and specially this.

 

[bgassassin]

300-400 is the correct range and he posted this a long time ago....

You dismissed by saying the " It is bare minimum 600Gflops," but now that is your best case...?

Actually that hypothetical was based on the idea of a GPU that made heavy usage of fixed/programmable functions.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36485259&postcount=12053

@USC-fan & BG

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39306355&postcount=4531



I think you should both think about shelving the debate for now because it's based on a conspiracy theory. I'm sure it must be getting to the painful stage by now. The only solution is the agree to disagree, surely.

Waaaaaah? Wii U Speculation thread. The whole premise of these threads is discussion based on things not known and trying to understand what Nintendo is doing till they tell us. Which here it is almost a month after E3 and we're not much better off than before E3. :/

Besides USC isn't being a jerk about it like some people can be, so I'm enjoying the debate because he's bringing a different perspective.

But at least people on the board are getting their hands on the controller and playing actual demos.

I wasn't trying to defend any party, I just provided some examples that could be of relevance to the topic. It could have been worded better.

As for what a generation means, it just refers to a new descendant of, in this case, a product. So, just as with Wii, the Wii U is indeed a next generation console by common definition. However, as pointed out, some people think it has to do with hardware power etc. Much because of the "console wars" that started in 2005 when Microsoft and Sony (and Nintendo to some degrees with its revolution that when started up would make us say "wow") threw around various tech demos that didn't reflect much of what was possible through these systems at that time.

My intention was not to state any personal opinion, I just wanted to highlight yet another assertion regarding Wii U by an industry source.

No problem. That's why I didn't want to outright accuse you of anything since I wasn't certain about the actual intent of that post.

 

[Meelow]

Yeah, this and specially this.

Exactly, Nintendo's E3 2012 was disappointing but it wasn't as bad as Sony's E3 2006.

 

[Redford]

Happy Canada day to my fellow Canadian Nintendo fans (+ BY2K if that doesn't offend you.)

 

[USC-fan]

bg I would say we are worst after e3 because people had a lot of hope that e3 would answer all the questions. Now we really have nothing to look forward to. Beside some random nin-directs. Plus you add the games really didn't look better than x360 at e3 along with no real announcements has almost killed the hype. The bird demo was again the best looking thing at e3.

I do hope the guy got the wrong specs from the psu. That would be some good news. I think I will hold back comment until this stuff gets confirmed. Like we get a true power usage reading and tear down...

 

[Meelow]

bg I would say we are worst after e3 because people had a lot of hope that e3 would answer all the questions. Now we really have nothing to look forward to. Beside some random nin-directs. Plus you add the games really didn't look better than x360 at e3 along with no real announcements has almost killed the hype. The bird demo was again the best looking thing at e3.

I do hope the guy got the wrong specs from the psu. That would be some good news. I think I will hold back comment until this stuff gets confirmed. Like we get a true power usage reading and tear down...

We know Nintendo held back at E3, so I am hoping that the Fall Conference is the E3 everybody wanted from Nintendo.

 

[Drago]

Well I'm finally here. Hello everybody

Will probably be secluding myself here and in Nintendo topics in Gaming forum until I have membership.

 

[MDX]

The real problem for next gen consoles is not how powerful they are, but will customers find value in them, I think Wii U will receive an easier purchase from customers than either other system because people can see the difference between Wii and Wii U more clearly,

Great point. As far as we know, the only thing the other consoles will bring is more power.
And possibly nothing that will surpass whats on the PC in the next two years. Of course, there are rumors of the VR glasses, but I dont see how it changes or adds to gameplay. But who knows, Sony and MS might be doing their best to come out with something unexpected.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Actually that hypothetical was based on the idea of a GPU that made heavy usage of fixed/programmable functions.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36485259&postcount=12053



Waaaaaah? Wii U Speculation thread. The whole premise of these threads is discussion based on things not known and trying to understand what Nintendo is doing till they tell us. Which here it is almost a month after E3 and we're not much better off than before E3. :/

Besides USC isn't being a jerk about it like some people can be, so I'm enjoying the debate because he's bringing a different perspective.

But at least people on the board are getting their hands on the controller and playing actual demos.



No problem. That's why I didn't want to outright accuse you of anything since I wasn't certain about the actual intent of that post.

Well, as long as you're enjoying yourself, son. If speculation is what you like though, can we [shouldn't you] bin the very shaky power brick stat info to open it up more, and concentrate more on the dev kit specs which ldherre intimated were for all intent and purpose, THE WiiU specs. From what I can see, that's the only good info to off here, otherwise, where does the speculation stop? Sky's the limit.

 

[D-e-f-]

Because of that performance sink no wii u games are going to look as good as say-- Starwars 1313, which to my knowledge is being developed on real next gen dev kits. Which means those games are only going to look even better.

No, it's being made on PCs right now. Don't confuse people saying "this is next gen" with what you've seen running on actual next gen console hardware. All LucasArts has said was that the game is running on high end PCs right now.

 

[blu]

IStalk Alone- let me explain to you how psu work. That 90% you are using is the efficiency of the psu. That is also the high end of Efficiency. It most likely in the 80%-90% range.it take power to change AC to DC.

So for the 100w you found for the x360 which is high, not sure if its testing error. But even at 100w the consoles only using 90-80w.

Now for Max consumption the rule is 40%-70% of rated output. For the wii used 20w of 44w rated psu. Less than 50%. Now even at a 100w which is very high for x360 the consoles only using 60%-66% of rated output.

So if you carry this 66% over to wiiu that would equal 49.5w. Going by history they do not run psu near Max. If they follow the wii example. Wiiu would use 35w.

So you have a range of 50w-35w.

Allow me to explain to you how PSUs work. If a PSU is rated at a certain wattage at the output, then that's what it should provide as a maximum. What it draws at the wall and how efficient it is at the AC/DC conversion has zilch to do with the output rating.

Now, regarding that maximum, whether the PSU can keep that for a short while, or sustain it for longer periods - it's usually the former than the latter (yes, PSUs work more stably when they're not constantly pushed to the max). But a PSU that is rated to provide certain amperage and voltage at its output, is meant to be capable of exactly that. Don't believe me? Take a multimeter and measure the parameters of the output of your favorite PSU.

So, the "Max" that a consumer can draw from a PSU rated at N Watts is, low and behold, N Watts.

 

[Nibel]

I just really, really hope that Nintendo sees E3 as some kind of mainstream thing and that they save their real bombs for around launch

 

[Apophis2036]

People need to get over the Flops issue tbh, i have a GTX 560ti in my PC, its ranked at around 1300 FLOPS, there are GPU's that are far worse than mine that are ranked at 2000 FLOPS.

If BG and Ideaman are in touch with 'sources' cant they just ask them out right 'in your opinion is the Wii U GPU anymore powerful than Xenos or RSX ? And if so how many times 1.5, 2, 3 ?'.

Would clear a hell of a lot of the mindless speculating and arguing over 'FLOPS' and power brick numbers.

In my opinion after seeing the Wii U at E3 2012 it's around 50% more powerful than the PS360 but 20 - 30% of the power is being used on the tablet.

Like i have always said if we get all the big name Nintendo exclusives looking like the Zelda tech demo i will be more than happy but we have not see the console run anything like that yet so im keeping my expectations low.

Cheers.

 

[D-e-f-]

People need to get over the Flops issue tbh, i have a GTX 560ti in my PC, its ranked at around 1300 FLOPS, there are GPU's that are far worse than mine that are ranked at 2000 FLOPS.

If BG and Ideaman are in touch with 'sources' cant they just ask them out right 'in your opinion is the Wii U GPU anymore powerful than Xenos or RSX ? And if so how many times 1.5, 2, 3 ?'.

Would clear a hell of a lot of the mindless speculating and arguing over 'FLOPS' and power brick numbers.

In my opinion after seeing the Wii U at E3 2012 it's around 50% more powerful than the PS360 but 20 - 30% of the power is being used on the tablet.

Like i have always said if we get all the big name Nintendo exclusives looking like the Zelda tech demo i will be more than happy but we have not see the console run anything like that yet so im keeping my expectations low.

Cheers.

Let's talk about flips!

 

[bgassassin]

bg I would say we are worst after e3 because people had a lot of hope that e3 would answer all the questions. Now we really have nothing to look forward to. Beside some random nin-directs. Plus you add the games really didn't look better than x360 at e3 along with no real announcements has almost killed the hype. The bird demo was again the best looking thing at e3.

I do hope the guy got the wrong specs from the psu. That would be some good news. I think I will hold back comment until this stuff gets confirmed. Like we get a true power usage reading and tear down...

While I can agree with the view that we are worse off, if anything I would say it's because we are possibly left with more questions than what we had before E3.

Well, as long as you're enjoying yourself, son. If speculation is what you like though, can we [shouldn't you] bin the very shaky power brick stat info to open it up more, and concentrate more on the dev kit specs which ldherre intimated were for all intent and purpose, THE WiiU specs. From what I can see, that's the only good info to off here, otherwise, where does the speculation stop? Sky's the limit.

Hey you're the junior so you can't call me son.

If you noticed I'm not the one harping on the power brick so that comment is misdirected. Also (starts throwing his weight around) I started the WUST for all kinds of speculation till Nintendo actually gave us enough info to where we didn't need the thread. So the speculation should cover anything and go in all directions till Nintendo gives us enough reason to not do so.

And it's lherre, no d.

People need to get over the Flops issue tbh, i have a GTX 560ti in my PC, its ranked at around 1300 FLOPS, there are GPU's that are far worse than mine that are ranked at 2000 FLOPS.

If BG and Ideaman are in touch with 'sources' cant they just ask them out right 'in your opinion is the Wii U GPU anymore powerful than Xenos or RSX ? And if so how many times 1.5, 2, 3 ?'.

Would clear a hell of a lot of the mindless speculating and arguing over 'FLOPS' and power brick numbers.

In my opinion after seeing the Wii U at E3 2012 it's around 50% more powerful than the PS360 but 20 - 30% of the power is being used on the tablet.

Like i have always said if we get all the big name Nintendo exclusives looking like the Zelda tech demo i will be more than happy but we have not see the console run anything like that yet so im keeping my expectations low.

Cheers.

Haha. Both Ideaman and myself have been saying Wii U is more powerful and have given examples of how since multipliers don't really do much.

And like I pointed out, even Iwata said Wii U is only halfway to its potential.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Hey you're the junior so you can't call me son.

If you noticed I'm not the one harping on the power brick so that comment is misdirected. Also (starts throwing his weight around) I started the WUST for all kinds of speculation till Nintendo actually gave us enough info to where we didn't need the thread. So the speculation should cover anything and go in all directions till Nintendo gives us enough reason to not do so.

Hehe, sorry, being English like cricket racquets, calling someone son is the same as calling someone mate, there's no stature attached to it It just seemed a bit out of control to me like it was more about scoring points than discussing balanced ideas. Sorry yeah, when I said 'you' I was inferring to Watt-gate as a whole, not you in particular.

Seriously though, why on Earth haven't the devs or sources around here thrown a few more details into the mix; surely it's nothing off their back. IdeaMan should be offering his arse out for rent for little sniff of something.

 

[bgassassin]

Hehe, sorry, being English like cricket racquets, calling someone son is the same as calling someone mate, there's no stature attached to it It just seemed a bit out of control to me like it was more about scoring points than discussing balanced ideas. Sorry yeah, when I said 'you' I was inferring to Watt-gate as a whole, not you in particular.

Seriously though, why on Earth haven't the devs or sources around here thrown a few more details into the mix; surely it's nothing off their back. IdeaMan should be offering his arse out for rent for little sniff of something.

No problems. When there are misunderstandings we've done well to getting on the same page around here. I think we're doing the same.

As for IM, his contacts are probably just now getting a decent idea of what the final kits can do so maybe he'll have some new tidbits soon. I don't know that for certain, but assuming that based on how "recent" the final kits started going out. The ones I've gotten Nintendo info from have all pretty much gone into hiding, plus I've been focused on trying to get an idea of what's going on with Xbox 3.

 

[cyberheater]

If BG and Ideaman are in touch with 'sources' cant they just ask them out right 'in your opinion is the Wii U GPU anymore powerful than Xenos or RSX ? And if so how many times 1.5, 2, 3 ?'.

Ideaman talked a load of old bollocks.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38572993&postcount=444

 

[snowdog1971]

This looks like thoughts from my brain, haha.

I'll just say that I think Nintendo underestimated how long the controller could carry the console vs the age of the hardware's architecture. Wii U's release is in line with preceding release time frames. Unfortunately Nintendo dragged Wii's lifeless carcass across the six-year release finish line since it "died" sooner than that.

Yup, mine too lol.

I'm also convinced that the U is going to be fine with third party support when the PS4 and 720 are released. By the time those two consoles are launched the U should have an installed userbase of anywhere between 10-15m, perhaps more and - most importantly - not only have Nintendo finally ditched the TEV Unit in favour of traditional programable shaders (and avoiding the problem that the Wii had with a nonstandard rendering pipeline) but they also appear to be using a GPGPU and similar architecture to the PS4 and 720, making porting a great deal easier.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm quite confident that the U will be the lead platform for next gen projects and will supply up-ports to the other two consoles. And, who knows, if Sony and Microsoft both release a console that costs a small fortune they may both suffer the same fate that the PS3 did for the first two years. Christ on a bike, there were even a few months when the GBA outsold the PS3 at the start lol. :Oo

We could end up seeing exclusives for the PS4 and 720 being canned and see development switching to the U, as we did with Monster Hunter 3 this gen.

I'm just hoping that Capcom are going to be announcing something Resident Evil related during the next few months, after playing Revelations I can see the huge advantage that a touchscreen controller will have over a traditional one. A sequel to Revelations would be bloody great, as long as they decrease the amount of ammo hanging around and make the game more difficult. Mercenaries 3D and Revelations are both the top two of my most played games.

Give me Resident Evil: More Revelations (lol) with a Genesis Scanner the same way the Scanner works in ZombiU, give me a log entry for everything I scan similar to Metroid Prime, make ammo a bit scarce and the game more difficult and I'm going to pay Capcom a small fortune for it!!!

Buggering flip, that was a long post...sorry for the novel lololol