How are they going to buffer the pad image? They are going to have to keep X previous frames and feed them to the pad with a delay.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
- Start date
- Status
How are they going to buffer the pad image? They are going to have to keep X previous frames and feed them to the pad with a delay.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
X = 1, if you take into account that:
1. Both outputs go out at the same rate (60Hz),
2. There's vsync on both outputs.
ed: Or not. I was thinking more in terms of playing with the duration of a blocking BufferSwap(), but on a second thought, that might not be the best solution. Basically X would need to be greater than 1, though in practice that number would still be low - if we assume a 100ms TV lag, then at 60Hz (i.e. 16.6ms frame duration) that's 100 / 16.6 = 6 output-buffer queue for the pad.
bgassassin
Member
Yep. If Wii U had more raw power it could have made a difference in overcoming the lack of optimization.
The only one I know of is Nintendo matching marketing dollars for select 3rd party launch titles.
It wouldn't be more as how I see it that was a part of the 5th kit tweaks considering the timing. And what would be too tough for me to answer. Vigil once talked about that there were things they couldn't do in the 2nd kit that they could do in the first. With the kits having actual retail-level component and the extended adjustment phase there may have been certain changes that positively or negatively caused them to decide to wait and adjust later.
And while you put port in quotes, I would still believe that's not the proper term to use. Someone might be willing to give you a proper answer on that.
StreetsAhead
Member
Thanks for the answer, it's still a little bit over my head, but I will go do some study!
What about Project zero (Fatal Frame)? they bought it (at least half way) and co-own it now together with Tecmo-Koei...
So wouldnt you also think that Nintendo is of course willing to spend a lot of money for getting games to their consoles?
Cause power on paper doesn't prove anything, without results (games) there's no evidence to support the specs. Like if the CPU is 1.8ghz with a bunch of features the 360 doesn't have, people would just point at the clockspeed and use the not so impressive games as evidence to justify their opinion that the Wii U is weak. If it's around 500Gflops you're just asking for this:
"2x GPU? Two GameCubes duct taped together all over again!"
It'd be the same situation as now...but with specific numbers. Plus when other consoles come out it'll just be used as more evidence that they're that many times better (whether the specs are actually comparable or not). Until people can see for themselves that it can run "next gen" stuff (or at least visuals beyond the current one) there's going to be doubts about the power regardless of what the spec sheet says.
That's a sexy console. I hope the final retail units look like that.
JordanN
Banned
That's stupid. You don't need games to show a GTX 680 is more powerful than a PS3.
CPU speed has never been an accurate measure of power when comparing to other systems.japtor said:
That's still better than "this shit aint even Gamecube level".japtor said:
Except it wouldn't. There would be an actual foundation laid.japtor said:
Better there's some actual truth mixed in rather than just present blanket open statements.japtor said:
This is ridiculous. So say PS3 only got NES ports. Would people say it's not next gen even if it has a 1000x more power?japtor said:
Sorry to keep drifting away from the hardware stuff, but has the potential for Nintendo to continue to sell games at the $50 mark been discussed? If they could do that and keep an acceptable profit for everyone involved, I think new games for $10 cheaper than the competition could be a great selling point.
if what shockingalberto hinted at is anything to go by, i think $59.99 is here to stay.
turns out it was nintendo, not sony, who was ahead of the times in the 64/32 bit generation.
IMO they could still sell with a price tag of 50 $, or whatever and make a good deal.
But there comes the problem!!
If they do so they just slap into the faces of 3rd party publishers who claimed last gen they have to raise prices cos of HD development.
finally less 3rd party games will come to WiiU then (cos most 3rd party games cant challenge a Nintendo game with such a price tag if the own is 60 or 70 for excample)
So I think in that case Nintendo will follow the stream and raise their own prices to 3rd party levels (even means more money for Nintendo).
The thing is, Nintendo itself would have no problem selling games at $49.99. However, since their games will be competing with other games on the platform (and Nintendo wants to be nice with third parties this time around) I think they'll opt to price the games at $59.99.
EDIT: Beaten, lol. Damn, literally the same exact message.
Here's the problem I'm getting at, going by one of your previous posts:
Assuming you're trying to correct others on NeoGAF, many will believe what they want to believe and twist anything to fit their view like ignoring/omitting details in the CPU example (or they could just be trolling). An "actual foundation" or "reality" would have no bearing on them, thisisneogafdude.gif basically.
Probably, modern TVs kind of suck. Depending on the game and your sensitivity it may not be as noticeable though, and of course if the TV has a "game mode" that'll help too. Computer LCDs have varying lag too, took me a while to get used to mine after switching from a CRT. I don't notice it anymore but it drove me nuts at first.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Well, hopefully some of us will be gaming without that delay come the U ; )
specialguy
Banned
LOL, no there arent.
Anyways, there used to be some discrepancy between AMD card flops and Nvidia card flops (more efficient) but A) nothing to make 700 gflops card top 2000 card and B ) starting with Kepler even that has mostly evaporated (Kepler is much closer to AMD card in flops).
Besides, I've always been of the opinion AMD flops werent allowed to stretch their power in PC games, since those must be aimed at two vendors, but in console they would. So you might see some of the prior AMD flops edge really pay off in a console (but again thats less relevant now anyway). ANYWAY
all in all (I think) noone should fear about the possible quality of games and features of GPU/CPU.
If we all remember the interview from mid June in which Iwata said that currently devs are only using half the potential of the WiiU hardware.
So for me it will be ferking great and I cant wait for the Wii U to release....
If we all remember the interview from mid June in which Iwata said that currently devs are only using half the potential of the WiiU hardware.
So for me it will be ferking great and I cant wait for the Wii U to release....
I refer to the old interview I found form the GCN days that nobody reacted to:
oh and here's small blast from the past that shows not much has changed seemingly:
IGN.com said:
sound familiar?
IGN.com said:
I guess if you switch the pros and cons here that sounds like where Wii U is going?
Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 interview about the GCN version from 2002.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/377/377943p1.html
bonus bits:
IGN.com said:
it seems that what happened back then was that 3rd parties needed to be convinced that there was an audience for darker titles geared towards the 18-40 age demographic (remember how the N64 suffered from the kiddie console label in a similar way that the Wii suffered from the "family games" mindset?). we basically need Darksiders, Aliens, ZombiU and Assassin's to do really well across the board.
Sice you seem to know, or even any other who really knows, plz explain to me.
I do understand it that way that somehow the flops have some importance (otherwise neither Nvidia nor AMD would advertise with that, or?)
But only for example if we have a card from lets say 2005 and it would have 1,2 TFlops, could a card from 2010 which has 700 GFlops perform better due to the more modern features?
That is the way I do understand it?!?!
Wow this completely vindicates ideaman. So far he was right on every single piece of information.
If Nintendo is going with something like the AMD-Radeon-E6760, it comes with a package of 1 GB GDDR5- potentially MEM1, why would Nintendo replace that with DDR3 if they will set up their memory pools similar to their older designs?:
The Wii
MEM1 24MB 1T-SRAM (internal main memory)
MEM2 64MB GDDR3 (external main memory)
eDRAM 3MB (embedded)
I dont see how 32MB of eDRAM becomes MEM1.
x amount of gddr5 as internal main memory
x amount of ddr3 as external main memory
32MB of embedded memory
I Stalk Alone
Member
the HD7750 which is around 819GFLOPS is faster than the 4870 which is 1.2TFLOPS
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/513?vs=535
the 4870 is faster on DX9 games but on DX11 the HD7750 is faster both at stock clocks.
so probably not but close. maybe having extra development time and being on console might help slightly but its all speculation at this point.
DaSorcerer7
Member
True, his info has always been spot on.
I just realized, with the cancellation of Metro, and the delay of Ghost Recon, CoD not being officially announced, the WiiU is starting off with a dearth of FPSs, one of the most popular genres of this gen.
If there was one genre Nintendo should have tried to launch with, alongside Mario, should have been an impressive FPS.
.
If there was one genre Nintendo should have tried to launch with, alongside Mario, should have been an impressive FPS.
.
There was never a single doubt in my mind that ideaman was legit.
DaSorcerer7
Member
How many PC flops would a Wii U flop if a Wii U could flop PC flops?
Twice as many according to USC-fan!
I've just assumed his contact(s) were in Ubisoft (cause France of course...and Ubi loves to leak), then the ZombiU team once that was shown off. Some stuff he hinted at vaguely matched up with elements of the game, not really completely on but close enough that it seemed more than coincidental. Like discrepancies could've just been cause the source was being purposefully vague...or IdeaMan, cause that's just his thing.
Maybe the lack of FPS is an indication of next gen!
(They should've went after FreeRadical years ago to secure TS4 when they were shopping it around)
Ghost Recon Online wasn't delayed. They're naturally making the PC version first as that's the main SKU off of which they're basing the console port. I don't think that means anything as it's important to get a free-to-play PC game right before you can adapt this to a console environment properly.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
MEM1 and MEM2 are not local to the GPU in the cube architecture. Well, ok, the Wii was a bit more complicated than that, in the sense that MEM2 was more GPU centric in some ways, as in, it served the GPU better (high BW, high latency).
So far MEM1 on the U appears to be GPU-local, *but* with sufficiently swift CPU access so that the pool could match what the 1T-SRAM had to offer.
Are you expecting high profile FPS's available for the launch window?
I Stalk Alone
Member
What specs have we dug up so far for the wii u cpu? I want to flop this thing out once and for all.
DaSorcerer7
Member
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Another crazy idea:
Imagine a helmet in which you place one tablet in a slot so that the screen and camera faces your eyes. You now have a VR-helmet!
The camera would track your eyemovements, the gyro your headmovement, and in your hand you hold a Wii U Pro controller that you play with as the screen displays a VR-world.
If the helmet have a second slot, you could put in a second, forward-facing, tablet and enable a pretty cool form of augmented reality.
Imagine a helmet in which you place one tablet in a slot so that the screen and camera faces your eyes. You now have a VR-helmet!
The camera would track your eyemovements, the gyro your headmovement, and in your hand you hold a Wii U Pro controller that you play with as the screen displays a VR-world.
If the helmet have a second slot, you could put in a second, forward-facing, tablet and enable a pretty cool form of augmented reality.
As explained in one of the previous speculation thread, third-parties that received the mass production dev kit (roughly 1 month before E3) saw an increase in the framerate of their games instantly, and it seems without having to work hard to adapt their build. I think it happened like that, because my sources got the new boxes, and were able to do some benchmarks with their games and witness the overall increase in performance in percentage (less than 10%) very quickly.
And they burned their E3 demos mere days before the show, so they had 1 month, a tad less, to adapt their content to this new dev kit. It seems, grain of salt, that even with the delay in their shipping, it didn't bring drastic changes (so more like tweaking or minor changes), like a replacement of component, that may have pushed them to re-do a lot of code, adjust their game to this hypothetical new hardware setting in a rush before E3. Or there's also the scenario where there has been an hardware modification, but slight, or done in a way that it didn't represent an hassle for developers because no one reported me difficulty with those.
All in all, the games at launch will see a lot of improvements, especially in the image quality department, there will be anti-aliasing (for the ones that lacked it), texture filtering, less problems with texture pop-ups, etc. Thanks to the familiarization of studios with those latest dev kits, new SDK releases, optimizations on their end (their engine, etc.), of middleware used, the fact that they will grow more accustomed with the asymmetric screen setup, and a lot of other parameters, the Wii U titles on the shelves will be prettier than the E3 demos.
Now, my sources told me than any additional enhancement they will retrieve from all these factors will benefit their games in a particular way. Concretely, if they gain 5 frame per second, their builds won't run at 35fps, they will take advantage of those to add more effects, etc, and the framerate will be lowered to 30 fps.
With that said, it must be perfectly clear however that for this context (third-parties projects, most of them being games not made for Wii U from the start, etc.), all these improvements won't make that a game you saw running at 720p/30fps at E3 will be either 1080p/30fps or 720p/60fps. The jump to reach those next visual steps is too big compare to the additional performances they will manage to grab from all the previously mentioned points.
You heard it first here
Thanks
But the HDD and online info weren't confirmed, we're waiting for more explanations from Nintendo. And it seems the controller screen size didn't change however, i think for this point we'll need a Nintendo tech guy to confirm or deny that the DRC screen we saw at E3 2011 is the same that the one in the final Gamepad, or that indeed there was a very slight increase in size, like from 6,2" to 6,25". Or my sources or me mixed with the increase in size of the Gamepad itself, or they just ditched this modification (as it was "virtual", third-parties were noticed of it through the Nintendo developers portal).So we got potentially three First Person shooters for the WiiU for the launch window.
Better than the Wii's launch.
And maybe some unannounced games for the first half of 2013.
Texture pop-up is massive in Arkam City, at the point that i would not buy the game if WB Montreal doesn't fix this problem.
A question i always wanted to ask is: in which way ground up made games for Wii U will benefit from the extra horse power of the console?
I mean, do software houses really have to face a whole different way of writing the game code?
coughlanio
Member
If Sony and Microsoft decide to go with off the shelf PPC parts next generation, development for multiple platforms should be trivial, at least between the next Playstation and Wii U.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand Arkam to be, and what texture popping to be is UE3 uses a low quality texture for in the distance and loads a higher quality texture in when objects move to the foreground. So all we are seeing in Arkam at the moment is UE3 not tweaked for Wii U correctly so the high quality foreground textures aren't loading in.
No way the game will launch like that I can only think.
bgassassin
Member
With how everything sounds, the GPU may be handling things like lighting and physics. I posted this awhile back, but here is an example of lighting being handled by the GPU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6TUVsmNUKI
So if the CPU isn't quite capable of handling those things on its own, yet the game is still developed that way then you can see why a game built with that in mind will benefit much better.
They're pretty much set for AMD CPUs.
BINGO. This time around, specs are going to be a convenient excuse. Plausible deniability and all that jazz..
Even if AC3, ZombiU, etc sell well at launch - watch the excuses fly. We could make a sad drinking game out of it
(much like we could make a pubs/devs/studios going "buh-bye" drinking game)
- Status