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[Cosmonaut X]

Again, isn't the likely issue with texture pop-in to do with streaming issues, given that - apparently - devs only got access to the optical drive shortly before E3 and had to ship demos on disc, when up until then they had been working with - I would assume - simulated read times etc. on dev kits?

 

[Earendil]

BINGO. This time around, specs are going to be a convenient excuse. Plausible deniability and all that jazz..

Even if AC3, ZombiU, etc sell well at launch - watch the excuses fly. We could make a sad drinking game out of it

Spoiler

(much like we could make a pubs/devs/studios going "buh-bye" drinking game)

.

I really hope not. The last thing we need is more developers going under. But you're probably right, we'll see them roll out the excuses soon enough.

P.S. You can make a drinking game out of anything if you are dedicated enough... lol

 

[IdeaMan]

Again, isn't the likely issue with texture pop-in to do with streaming issues, given that - apparently - devs only got access to the optical drive shortly before E3 and had to ship demos on disc, when up until then they had been working with - I would assume - simulated read times etc. on dev kits?

yup, it's one of the parameter to take into consideration

 

[ugoo18]

So we got potentially three First Person shooters for the WiiU for the launch window.
Better than the Wii's launch.

And maybe some unannounced games for the first half of 2013.

Well wouldn't ZombiU technically be an FPS as well?

So far that means

Medal Of Honor Warfighter
Blops 2
Alien Colonial Marines
ZombiU



Hmmm the WiiU's launch window actually doesn't look to bad overall when you also take into account

Assassins Creed 3
Darksiders 2
Trine 2
Mass Effect 3
Ghost Recon Online
Pikmin 3
NSMBU
Scribblenauts Unlimited
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Ninja Gaiden 3 (The good version)
Batman Arkham City
P-100
FIFA 13
Madden 13
Rayman Legends
Nintendoland (Yes im counting this )
Just Dance 4 (Yes im counting this also lol it will sell even if some people hate it.)
Wii Fit U
Dragon Quest X
Game and Wario
Lego City Undercover
NBA 2K13
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Need For Speed Most Wanted (Amazon listing for a WiiU version and A Criterion developer listed Wii U in his LinkedIn profile as a console he's working on. However this is from a site that GAF does not look favorably on so could be false)



12 exclusives
Out of the 12 exclusives
1 guaranteed big seller and 3 potential ones (NSMBU and ZombiU/Pikmin 3/Nintendoland if it's not bundled)


2 New IPs


16 Multiplats (5 late by at least 1 to 2 months so effectively 11 current multiplats)
Out of the 11 current multiplats
4 are big sellers (Well 3 definitely, FIFA/COD/Just Dance 4. im not so sure of Madden)


Not sure how that compares with other launch windows (Specifically the PS360) but that doesn't seem to bad.

 

[bgassassin]

^ Ghost Recon Online is 3rd person.

BINGO. This time around, specs are going to be a convenient excuse. Plausible deniability and all that jazz..

Even if AC3, ZombiU, etc sell well at launch - watch the excuses fly. We could make a sad drinking game out of it

Spoiler

(much like we could make a pubs/devs/studios going "buh-bye" drinking game)

.

I don't even think specs will be a convenient excuse going forward. And if Sony and MS also utilize multi-screen gaming, that won't work as well.

 

[ugoo18]

^ Ghost Recon Online is 3rd person.



I don't even think specs will be a convenient excuse going forward. And if Sony and MS also utilize multi-screen gaming, that won't work as well.

Oh yeah lol it is

EDIT: Missed ME3 as well....

 

[DaSorcerer7]

^ Ghost Recon Online is 3rd person.



I don't even think specs will be a convenient excuse going forward. And if Sony and MS also utilize multi-screen gaming, that won't work as well.

Then it'll be the age old, tried and true "not right the audience" excuse.

 

[bgassassin]

Then it'll be the age old, tried and true "not right the audience" excuse.

The only bullet in the chamber and I see them firing it as much as possible if they decide not to make a Wii U version of their game.

 

[EuroMIX]

The problem is I'm a bit of a walking stereotype since I don't really play FPS or online games, which are two of the major factors which help define "core" experiences for many.

I'm older, poorer and much more jaded these days so I have to more picky about the games I choose to buy, so I can't really afford to invest in games just as a measure of giving devs/pubs the incentive to release games on the Wii U. That and I don't think it'd matter anyway given that some games sold reasonably well on the Wii and were never followed up, so I don't trust most devs/pubs anyway.

A problem I've noticed with Nintendo working towards increasingly competent online is there is a greater expectancy from people for Nintendo to make all of their games online, even when it might not be ideal or doesn't suit a series. I'm afraid that hatred against Nintendo having inferior online will just turn into hatred for Nintendo not always utilising online to a that level people might desire. Again, I'm not really much of an online gamer so its absence wouldn't affect me, but I know that a large chunk of gamers really love online play.


Also, a part of me wishes that Just Dance could've remained a Nintendo exclusive so that Ubisoft could have called 4 "U Just Dance" (that was terrible, sorry).

 

[HylianTom]

I really hope not. The last thing we need is more developers going under. But you're probably right, we'll see them roll out the excuses soon enough.

P.S. You can make a drinking game out of anything if you are dedicated enough... lol

Too bad I'm not much of a drinker these days, haha..

But I've become largely apathetic towards the fates of developers at this point. If they want to suicide themselves, more power to 'em, as any affection I once had for them is long-gone. Anything we Nintendo console owners get out of them is a pleasant surprise as far as I'm concerned, and I'm now interested in their outcomes in an academic context more than anything else.

 

[darthdago]

The only bullet in the chamber and I see them firing it as much as possible if they decide not to make a Wii U version of their game.

...if they are firing that much bullets its no wonder that there is "not the right audience" left on the WiiU...all shot...

 

[MDX]

Well wouldn't ZombiU technically be an FPS as well?

So far that means

Medal Of Honor Warfighter
Blops 2
Alien Colonial Marines
ZombiU

Damn, forgot about ZombiU as well.
If Blops2 and MoHW do launch as well,
the WiiU does not have a dearth FPS launch games.

 

[D-e-f-]

Hmmm the WiiU's launch window actually doesn't look to bad overall [...]

Welcome to a month ago

 

[ugoo18]

Welcome to a month ago

lol well with the amount of doom and gloom surrounding the WiiU after E3 you would think that it had nothing coming out of reasonable quality

 

[Hoodbury]

New thoughts of the day:

1.
Miiverse is the startup screen for the Wii-U. Miiverse is an online social gathering place is it not? They never said Wii-U is an online only system, so what would your Miiverse be like if you never go online or your internet connection goes out for awhile?

Would you just see your lonely mii wandering around by itself? Would Miiverse even boot up or would there be an offline startup home screen instead?

2.
Is there any word yet if games will use both the Wiimore/chuck AND the gamepad? I know you can use one or the other, but why not both at the same time? I really enjoy FPS's with the Wiimote/chuck combo, but I can see the gamepad adding some neat features to those games.

Can I control and aim and shoot with the wiimote/chuck but still have the gamepad resting on my lap for some of it's functions? Or is it one or the other?

Seems like this would make ZombiU's concepts even more realistic. Play with the Wiimote but then you have to actually go to your gamepad to do your inventory stuff and scanning.

Or for CoD and such, I can see using the gamepad for some of the Killstreaks but would still prefer to use the Wii-mote/chuck for normal run and gunning.

I guess this kinda sounds more like what Microsoft is doing with their Smartglass?

 

[Lyude77]

New thoughts of the day:

1.
Miiverse is the startup screen for the Wii-U. Miiverse is an online social gathering place is it not? They never said Wii-U is an online only system, so what would your Miiverse be like if you never go online or your internet connection goes out for awhile?

Would you just see your lonely mii wandering around by itself? Would Miiverse even boot up or would there be an offline startup home screen instead?

2.
Is there any word yet if games will use both the Wiimore/chuck AND the gamepad? I know you can use one or the other, but why not both at the same time? I really enjoy FPS's with the Wiimote/chuck combo, but I can see the gamepad adding some neat features to those games.

Can I control and aim and shoot with the wiimote/chuck but still have the gamepad resting on my lap for some of it's functions? Or is it one or the other?

Seems like this would make ZombiU's concepts even more realistic. Play with the Wiimote but then you have to actually go to your gamepad to do your inventory stuff and scanning.

Or for CoD and such, I can see using the gamepad for some of the Killstreaks but would still prefer to use the Wii-mote/chuck for normal run and gunning.

I guess this kinda sounds more like what Microsoft is doing with their Smartglass?

For #1, yeah, I bet they show the alternate screen, with a huge "Here's how to get connected to the internet" icon.

For #2, I remember a preview mentioning that they could use a Wii remote and Nunchuk with the GamePad as a map, so I'm pretty sure that's possible. I can't find the preview with Google. Maybe it was another gaffer at one of the recent shows? Not sure.

 

[EatChildren]

Just backing up a little on the topic of the GameCube disk size and the market at the time.

The big issue with data storage and disk size isn't simply stretching your content across multiple disks, it's how much free space you have on each disk after essential data has been included. Think about it: every single asset (texture, model, audio file) that has a chance to display at any point in the game must be included on both disks. You cant just split the game in half. This can be problematic in, for example, a sandbox game. Unless your sandbox game is segmented into clearly separate areas (eg: Far Cry 2), you must include the entire city/world on each disks regardless of how you split the extra content.

When you have large disks, or better yet the ability to install disk content to a HDD, the problem no longer exists.

As for why third parties poorly supported the GCN, it was really fuelled by the system's poor performance in the west. Being the most unorthodox platform to develop for didn't help matters. I recall somebody showing charts of big multi platform releases at the time (might have been some EA Sports games), and sales for the GCN versions was significantly lower than the PS2 and Xbox.

During that generation publishers had a fair excuse to strip back GameCube support. It simply wasn't making them much money, and Nintendo wasn't doing a lot to change that.

Nintendo's history with third party support isn't as littered with poor excuses as some will have you believe. For the N64, Nintendo chose a shitty, unorthodox storage format that was at odds with what developers wanted at the time, and Nintendo came in a distant second place to Sony's machine. The GCN, see above. The Wii was too larger gap between 360/PS3 hardware to warrant porting, and publishers made a dumb gamble on a market they legitimately believed would tank at any second. Most are probably kicking themselves for screwing up what was a thriving market.

The Wii U will be a whole new ball game, and until we get a bigger picture of what developers will be making and Microsoft/Sony's business plans it's impossible to say what kind of support the Wii U will get.

EDIT: For budgets and such, yes ever increasing budgets will be a problem next generation. A big one. But developers going under due to ballooning budgets isn't a tomorrow problem. It is a now problem. And it will be a problem on the Wii U too. Those expensive games on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are going to be just as expensive on the Wii U too. Simply diverting development to the 'lesser' hardware of three platforms isn't going to fix anything. It's a market/release issue, and frankly most developers caught in the middle will probably end up on PC digital, LIVE/PSN, or iOS.

 

[alfolla]

With how everything sounds, the GPU may be handling things like lighting and physics. I posted this awhile back, but here is an example of lighting being handled by the GPU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6TUVsmNUKI
So if the CPU isn't quite capable of handling those things on its own, yet the game is still developed that way then you can see why a game built with that in mind will benefit much better.

So we can state the CPU is on par with what we found in today's consoles?
I would say so, considering it can still handle ports.

Also, do you think these ports are taking advance of the DSP unit?

PS: Thanks everyone for the answers! ^^

 

[daakusedo]

If things follow a logical path, nintendo releasing a more balanced console can get better support. Again I don't understand what the meaning behind the "excuses" jokes.
Surely you have some developers angry at nintendo (lol) but not a whole industry.

 

[alfolla]

Well wouldn't ZombiU technically be an FPS as well?

So far that means

Medal Of Honor Warfighter
Blops 2
Alien Colonial Marines
ZombiU



Hmmm the WiiU's launch window actually doesn't look to bad overall when you also take into account

Assassins Creed 3
Darksiders 2
Trine 2
Mass Effect 3
Ghost Recon Online
Pikmin 3
NSMBU
Scribblenauts Unlimited
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Ninja Gaiden 3 (The good version)
Batman Arkham City
P-100
FIFA 13
Madden 13
Rayman Legends
Nintendoland (Yes im counting this )
Just Dance 4 (Yes im counting this also lol it will sell even if some people hate it.)
Wii Fit U
Dragon Quest X
Game and Wario
Lego City Undercover
NBA 2K13
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Need For Speed Most Wanted (Amazon listing for a WiiU version and A Criterion developer listed Wii U in his LinkedIn profile as a console he's working on. However this is from a site that GAF does not look favorably on so could be false)



12 exclusives
Out of the 12 exclusives
1 guaranteed big seller and 3 potential ones (NSMBU and ZombiU/Pikmin 3/Nintendoland if it's not bundled)


2 New IPs


16 Multiplats (5 late by at least 1 to 2 months so effectively 11 current multiplats)
Out of the 11 current multiplats
4 are big sellers (Well 3 definitely, FIFA/COD/Just Dance 4. im not so sure of Madden)


Not sure how that compares with other launch windows (Specifically the PS360) but that doesn't seem to bad.

*My wallet cries*

 

[nordique]

Just backing up a little on the topic of the GameCube disk size and the market at the time.

The big issue with data storage and disk size isn't simply stretching your content across multiple disks, it's how much free space you have on each disk after essential data has been included. Think about it: every single asset (texture, model, audio file) that has a chance to display at any point in the game must be included on both disks. You cant just split the game in half. This can be problematic in, for example, a sandbox game. Unless your sandbox game is segmented into clearly separate areas (eg: Far Cry 2), you must include the entire city/world on each disks regardless of how you split the extra content.

When you have large disks, or better yet the ability to install disk content to a HDD, the problem no longer exists.

As for why third parties poorly supported the GCN, it was really fuelled by the system's poor performance in the west. Being the most unorthodox platform to develop for didn't help matters. I recall somebody showing charts of big multi platform releases at the time (might have been some EA Sports games), and sales for the GCN versions was significantly lower than the PS2 and Xbox.

During that generation publishers had a fair excuse to strip back GameCube support. It simply wasn't making them much money, and Nintendo wasn't doing a lot to change that.

Nintendo's history with third party support isn't as littered with poor excuses as some will have you believe. For the N64, Nintendo chose a shitty, unorthodox storage format that was at odds with what developers wanted at the time, and Nintendo came in a distant second place to Sony's machine. The GCN, see above. The Wii was too larger gap between 360/PS3 hardware to warrant porting, and publishers made a dumb gamble on a market they legitimately believed would tank at any second. Most are probably kicking themselves for screwing up what was a thriving market.

The Wii U will be a whole new ball game, and until we get a bigger picture of what developers will be making and Microsoft/Sony's business plans it's impossible to say what kind of support the Wii U will get.

EDIT: For budgets and such, yes ever increasing budgets will be a problem next generation. A big one. But developers going under due to ballooning budgets isn't a tomorrow problem. It is a now problem. And it will be a problem on the Wii U too. Those expensive games on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 are going to be just as expensive on the Wii U too. Simply diverting development to the 'lesser' hardware of three platforms isn't going to fix anything. It's a market/release issue, and frankly most developers caught in the middle will probably end up on PC digital, LIVE/PSN, or iOS.

Well said EC

+1

 

[nordique]

Wii U launch lineup

It is looking pretty nice.

I will be looking forward to getting one, hopefully day one.

 

[EatChildren]

Surely you have some developers angry at nintendo (lol) but not a whole industry.

I'm sure there are some individuals who are 'angry' at Nintendo, but a vast, vast majority of developers are just people who want to make games. And if they can make their games, their visions, on a platform that will support them, then they will do so.

Nintendo has a history of being a company difficult to work with. Though this has lessened significantly over the years, it's still around even today. Look at their digital market and the awful restrictions they put in place for WiiWare developers. It might be bad, or just as bad, on other services, but it's also better on other services. Thus developers will flock to the better services, as that is where they feel they can express their visions.

Publishers will go to wherever they see the market growing, and where they feel they can make the most money. Many are probably kicking themselves over the Wii. Most legitimately believed the Wii's market would kick the bucket at any moment, and they were wrong. Unfortunately by the time they realised their mistake the generation was on the tail end, the Wii software market had already been established, and they were doing well enough elsewhere. Go back in time with today's knowledge, and you'd probably see a significant increase in third party support on the Wii, cultivating a software environment that allowed them to expand business on Nintendo's platform while still doing what they did on the 360/PS3/PC.

Next generation will come down to what Nintendo does on their end, and where publishers see the most money to be made. Making big budget games on the Wii U will be just as expensive as it is now, so it wont save anyone. Digital market? Maybe, if Nintendo can provide that. Otherwise digital developers will flock to Steam (as they are doing already), or stick with LIVE/PSN should the next generation Microsoft/Sony systems sell well.

Thing is, sales will be a huge factor in next generation. It sounds dumb because it's so obvious, but that's just it. If the Wii U comes out the gate incredibly strong, and has strong software sales from the get go, I think publishers will pay more attention than they did with the Wii. That doesn't mean it will get a lot of next gen support, but it would mean the Wii U market is one to invest in with a good diversity of software. If the Wii U kinda middles in sales, and the 720/PS4 launch hard, you'll probably see a generation of support similar to this one.

 

[lwilliams3]

I'm sure there are some individuals who are 'angry' at Nintendo, but a vast, vast majority of developers are just people who want to make games. And if they can make their games, their visions, on a platform that will support them, then they will do so.

Nintendo has a history of being a company difficult to work with. Though this has lessened significantly over the years, it's still around even today. Look at their digital market and the awful restrictions they put in place for WiiWare developers. It might be bad, or just as bad, on other services, but it's also better on other services. Thus developers will flock to the better services, as that is where they feel they can express their visions.

Publishers will go to wherever they see the market growing, and where they feel they can make the most money. Many are probably kicking themselves over the Wii. Most legitimately believed the Wii's market would kick the bucket at any moment, and they were wrong. Unfortunately by the time they realised their mistake the generation was on the tail end, the Wii software market had already been established, and they were doing well enough elsewhere. Go back in time with today's knowledge, and you'd probably see a significant increase in third party support on the Wii, cultivating a software environment that allowed them to expand business on Nintendo's platform while still doing what they did on the 360/PS3/PC.

Next generation will come down to what Nintendo does on their end, and where publishers see the most money to be made. Making big budget games on the Wii U will be just as expensive as it is now, so it wont save anyone. Digital market? Maybe, if Nintendo can provide that. Otherwise digital developers will flock to Steam (as they are doing already), or stick with LIVE/PSN should the next generation Microsoft/Sony systems sell well.

Thing is, sales will be a huge factor in next generation. It sounds dumb because it's so obvious, but that's just it. If the Wii U comes out the gate incredibly strong, and has strong software sales from the get go, I think publishers will pay more attention than they did with the Wii. That doesn't mean it will get a lot of next gen support, but it would mean the Wii U market is one to invest in with a good diversity of software. If the Wii U kinda middles in sales, and the 720/PS4 launch hard, you'll probably see a generation of support similar to this one.

Two excellent posts in a row

The bolded part is something I have not seen too many people discuss. In retrospect, I also believe alot more publishers would have gave the Wii a chance from the get-go.

 

[schuelma]

Thing is, sales will be a huge factor in next generation. It sounds dumb because it's so obvious, but that's just it. If the Wii U comes out the gate incredibly strong, and has strong software sales from the get go, I think publishers will pay more attention than they did with the Wii. That doesn't mean it will get a lot of next gen support, but it would mean the Wii U market is one to invest in with a good diversity of software. If the Wii U kinda middles in sales, and the 720/PS4 launch hard, you'll probably see a generation of support similar to this one.

I'm rather skeptical of this, at least in the West. Unless 3rd party sales of stuff like Assassins Creed do incredibly well, I don't see Western 3rd parties getting on board.

There is basically no real way Nintendo is going to replicate the Wii sales from the first 1-2 years, and the companies basically ignored those insane sales for an entire generation.

Now, maybe 3rd parties are more eager to not miss out this time, but just judging by what we know so far, I really don't think much will change- unless, as I said, the 3rd party stuff announced does incredibly well.

 

[alfolla]

All tech talkings become useless if this ^ scenario drawn by EC becomes a reality.
It'll be just a matter of where you can make better money.

@EC: do you believe that installed base alone can provide the potential to make third parties confident about publishing a title for Wii U ?

 

[JAYinHD]

I'm sure there are some individuals who are 'angry' at Nintendo, but a vast, vast majority of developers are just people who want to make games. And if they can make their games, their visions, on a platform that will support them, then they will do so.

Nintendo has a history of being a company difficult to work with. Though this has lessened significantly over the years, it's still around even today. Look at their digital market and the awful restrictions they put in place for WiiWare developers. It might be bad, or just as bad, on other services, but it's also better on other services. Thus developers will flock to the better services, as that is where they feel they can express their visions.

Publishers will go to wherever they see the market growing, and where they feel they can make the most money. Many are probably kicking themselves over the Wii. Most legitimately believed the Wii's market would kick the bucket at any moment, and they were wrong. Unfortunately by the time they realised their mistake the generation was on the tail end, the Wii software market had already been established, and they were doing well enough elsewhere. Go back in time with today's knowledge, and you'd probably see a significant increase in third party support on the Wii, cultivating a software environment that allowed them to expand business on Nintendo's platform while still doing what they did on the 360/PS3/PC.

Next generation will come down to what Nintendo does on their end, and where publishers see the most money to be made. Making big budget games on the Wii U will be just as expensive as it is now, so it wont save anyone. Digital market? Maybe, if Nintendo can provide that. Otherwise digital developers will flock to Steam (as they are doing already), or stick with LIVE/PSN should the next generation Microsoft/Sony systems sell well.

Thing is, sales will be a huge factor in next generation. It sounds dumb because it's so obvious, but that's just it. If the Wii U comes out the gate incredibly strong, and has strong software sales from the get go, I think publishers will pay more attention than they did with the Wii. That doesn't mean it will get a lot of next gen support, but it would mean the Wii U market is one to invest in with a good diversity of software. If the Wii U kinda middles in sales, and the 720/PS4 launch hard, you'll probably see a generation of support similar to this one.

Excellent post and this pretty much makes sense. Sales during the Wii U launch window will be extremely important for the big publisher on whether or not they decide to throw big support behind Nintendo. If they see a market there for their games (regardless if they like Nintendo or not) then they will be there. I know I will do my part purchasing the software that interest me.

Also (a little off topic here) I know alot of folks were let down at Nintendo's E3 conference but the more I think about it the more some of the things they showed makes sense. My wife is not much of a gamer at all but she watched the E3 presentation with me and got a glimpse of Wii U fit and Just Dance and was sold on that game along. She was very pleased with being able to use the Wii balance board that we have from Wii fit. I'm not saying Nintendo will replicate the success they had with the "casuals" with Wii but from a business perspective they did what they should have. I'm sure the majority of folks who planned to get a Wii U at launch before the show still plans to get one after the show. I don't know about anyone else, but they have one of the more impressive launch lineups I have ever seen from any console.

 

[EatChildren]

Two excellent posts in a row

The bolded part is something I have not seen too many people discuss. In retrospect, I also believe alot more publishers would have gave the Wii a chance from the get-go.

Folk often forget Nintendo's market position, in the console world at least, prior to the Wii. They were third place, in the West anywho. Microsoft and Sony seemed to be doing one right thing after the other. The Wii was Nintendo's response to the shifting market, both in terms of new ways to make games, and their own realisation they had lost the battle Microsoft and Sony were fighting (that Nintendo once upon a time fought too).

Nobody, not even Nintendo, anticipated the Wii would be the success it was. It, coupled with the DS turnaround, put Nintendo 'back on the map' so to speak. They did this in one generation, after losing their position in the console market over two generations. Publishers didn't know what was going on and I don't really blame them. I do blame them for not capitalising quicker.

I'm rather skeptical of this, at least in the West. Unless 3rd party sales of stuff like Assassins Creed do incredibly well, I don't see Western 3rd parties getting on board.

There is basically no real way Nintendo is going to replicate the Wii sales from the first 1-2 years, and the companies basically ignored those insane sales for an entire generation.

Now, maybe 3rd parties are more eager to not miss out this time, but just judging by what we know so far, I really don't think much will change- unless, as I said, the 3rd party stuff announced does incredibly well.

They're probably not going to get fully on board one way or the other in the same sense that they will be for the next Microsoft and Sony systems. That's their future, as far as they can see. But if software sales are strong, especially for their early ports, on the Wii U, then they may divert more attention this way.

If they feel they can make games on the Wii U that will make them money, they will make them.

@EC: do you believe that installed base alone can provide the potential to make third parties confident about publishing a title for Wii U ?

Install base wont be enough. Software sales are most important. Sales of software shows you just what that install base is buying, and what kind of software is likely to succeed. This was the Wii's problem later in life. The install base was not responding well to certain later generation third party efforts. The market had not been cultivated to sell that kind of software consistently.

Or, to put it bluntly, the Wii U can sell millions upon millions out of the gate. But if those millions are mostly middle aged housewives and grandparents the software market will be shaped accordingly, and will send a message to publishers that only success on the Wii U depends on software appealing to a specific market.

That's unfortunately the downside of the 'blue ocean' strategy. It's nice to appeal to an untapped market. Not so nice when that untapped market has different taste to your own.

 

[JAYinHD]

I'm rather skeptical of this, at least in the West. Unless 3rd party sales of stuff like Assassins Creed do incredibly well, I don't see Western 3rd parties getting on board.

There is basically no real way Nintendo is going to replicate the Wii sales from the first 1-2 years, and the companies basically ignored those insane sales for an entire generation.

Now, maybe 3rd parties are more eager to not miss out this time, but just judging by what we know so far, I really don't think much will change- unless, as I said, the 3rd party stuff announced does incredibly well.

But don't you think things have already changed? Games like Mass Effect and Assassins Creed were nowhere to be found on the Wii. Add in games like Black Ops 2 and Madden 13 and they seem to be doing a much better job getting 3rd party support. Like you said though it will still come down to sells figures.

 

[Diablos54]

But don't you think things have already changed? Games like Mass Effect and Assassins Creed were nowhere to be found on the Wii. Add in games like Black Ops 2 and Madden 13 and they seem to be doing a much better job getting 3rd party support. Like you said though it will still come down to sells figures.

When these ports fail to sell as well as they do on the 360/Ps3 (Especially the late ports), I expect western support to drop off the face of the earth.

 

[schuelma]

Install base wont be enough. Software sales are most important. Sales of software shows you just what that install base is buying, and what kind of software is likely to succeed. This was the Wii's problem later in life. The install base was not responding well to certain later generation third party efforts. The market had not been cultivated to sell that kind of software consistently.

This is why I'm pretty pessimistic about 3rd party efforts from Western publishers. Nintendo software, even if it does sell well, will either be discounted for being casual or for being "a Nintendo game we cannot compete with". Months old ports like Batman, Darksiders, Mass Effect, etc., will do squat.

So basically what 3rd parties will be left with as far as titles that could conceivably show them there is a market for core oriented stuff is what? Assassin's Creed, ZombiU, maybe CoD if it comes, and maybe Aliens? That's a pretty small, underwhelming list.

I would argue only Ubisoft is really showing Wii U the support it needs to create a healthy ecosystem for 3rd parties. If they don't build it, they won't come..just like with the Wii*

*Now, you can certainly make a good argument that Nintendo is also to blame for this by not revealing and emphasizing big budget, core titles for the launch window..but I'm reasonably sure that if that happened 3rd parties would simply discount that software as a Nintendo product selling on a Nintendo machine.

 

[schuelma]

But don't you think things have already changed? Games like Mass Effect and Assassins Creed were nowhere to be found on the Wii. Add in games like Black Ops 2 and Madden 13 and they seem to be doing a much better job getting 3rd party support. Like you said though it will still come down to sells figures.

Its better than Wii, no doubt, but besides Assassins Creed and possibly CoD, there is no day and date 3rd party effort that isn't going to be hamstrung by being months old when it comes out.

 

[Hoodbury]

When these ports fail to sell as well as they do on the 360/Ps3 (Especially the late ports), I expect western support to drop off the face of the earth.

Shirley the companies understand the install base of each of the systems. If Ubi drops Wii-U support because ACIII doesn't sell as many on a console with around 1-3 million possible customers vs ones that have 70 million possible customers, well that's their own fault.

Hopefully they use a percent based performance tracking system and not just total number sold to determine if it was a success or not.

And yes, I did just call you Shirley

 

[EatChildren]

But don't you think things have already changed? Games like Mass Effect and Assassins Creed were nowhere to be found on the Wii. Add in games like Black Ops 2 and Madden 13 and they seem to be doing a much better job getting 3rd party support. Like you said though it will still come down to sells figures.

A lot of that support comes down to having a platform that is able to keep up with the 360/PS3. Getting most of those games on the Wii would have been a costly and timely, and for a market that probably wouldn't buy it.

For all the shit I give them, Ubisoft isn't stupid when it comes to a console launch. They know a console launch is where people gobble up all kinds of software. Support it hard at launch, especially with ports of big games, and you'll probably make your money back quite easily. Red Steel was getting pretty shitty reviews around launch and still sold very well.

EA is EA. Mass Effect is one of those franchises that EA probably wishes did ten times better than it does. Porting ME3 across to the Wii U is all kinds of weird given where it sits in a trilogy, but I'm guessing it cost them next to nothing. They're taking a page out of Ubi's book and having something there for launch.

This is why I'm pretty pessimistic about 3rd party efforts from Western publishers. Nintendo software, even if it does sell well, will either be discounted for being casual or for being "a Nintendo game we cannot compete with". Months old ports like Batman, Darksiders, Mass Effect, etc., will do squat.

So basically what 3rd parties will be left with as far as titles that could conceivably show them there is a market for core oriented stuff is what? Assassin's Creed, ZombiU, maybe CoD if it comes, and maybe Aliens? That's a pretty small, underwhelming list.

This I will agree with. The ports are almost all safe ones, for titles that have already sold extremely well on other platforms. I don't predict stuff like Mass Effect 3 selling well at all.

I'm sure call of Duty will be there. Personally I don't think there's much software in the latter half of 2012 anyway. There's some smaller grade stuff doomed to tank (eg: Dishonoured, unfortunately), and in those cases pubs would be unwilling to invest in more ports (they'll probably send the games to die anyway). Then there's a few anomalies like Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3 and Resident Evil 5.

 

[JAYinHD]

When these ports fail to sell as well as they do on the 360/Ps3 (Especially the late ports), I expect western support to drop off the face of the earth.

I hope publishers aren't expecting millions in sells (with the exception of Assassins Creed) to evaluate support for the system in relation to their games being already released on PS3/360. I expect most of these games to do well enough to warrant future support though.

I'm also wondering how many gamers like myself are purchasing Wii U day 1 with the intentions of grabbing up games like Arkham City, Assassins Creed, and Mass Effect even though I own both a PS3 and an 360 already.

 

[D-e-f-]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/06/gearbox-wants-borderlands-2-on-vita-requests-sonys-help/

Speaking at the Rezzed conference today, Pitchford asked fans to bug Sony to get behind it. "Perhaps some of you folks can convince Sony to start that," Pitchford said. "We're too busy to develop it ourselves. But I know there are a lot of talented developers who could take our code, our source and our content and perhaps create something like that."

So, does that mean that things could happen like this with Wii U versions as well? We bug Nintendo so they mobilize some of their contacts to make a Borderlands 2 Wii U port?

 

[lwilliams3]

So basically what 3rd parties will be left with as far as titles that could conceivably show them there is a market for core oriented stuff is what? Assassin's Creed, ZombiU, maybe CoD if it comes, and maybe Aliens? That's a pretty small, underwhelming list.

It should be pointed out that the titles you listed will not only be coming out around launch of the Wii U (except for Aliens), but that list already shows potentially stronger mature support than what the Wii had. It doesn't take a ton of games to cater to an audience, but it takes constant flow of games to maintain it and grow. For the Wii, for example, RE4 Wii did extremely well and exceeded Capcom's expectations, but there were no follow-up games soon after that launch to take advantage of that mature audience. Therefore, "mature" gamers had to go elsewhere. That was a missed opportunity.

 

[Meelow]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/06/gearbox-wants-borderlands-2-on-vita-requests-sonys-help/



So, does that mean that things could happen like this with Wii U versions as well? We bug Nintendo so they mobilize some of their contacts to make a Borderlands 2 Wii U port?

I hope Nintendo helps to make a Wii U version, Nintendo did they are going to help 3rd party's with the Wii U so hopefully.

 

[Mithos]

But don't you think things have already changed? Games like Mass Effect and Assassins Creed were nowhere to be found on the Wii. Add in games like Black Ops 2 and Madden 13 and they seem to be doing a much better job getting 3rd party support. Like you said though it will still come down to sells figures.

Yeah its nice, BUT 3rd parties have lost my trust, and they need to earn it back, so they place Mass Effect 3 and Assassins Creed 3 on the Wii U, what about "Mass Effect 4, 5" and "Assassins Creed 4, 5", will they be there or will I be BURNED again from 3rd parties?

 

[brainpann]

I hope publishers aren't expecting millions in sells (with the exception of Assassins Creed) to evaluate support for the system in relation to their games being already released on PS3/360. I expect most of these games to do well enough to warrant future support though.

I'm also wondering how many gamers like myself are purchasing Wii U day 1 with the intentions of grabbing up games like Arkham City, Assassins Creed, and Mass Effect even though I own both a PS3 and an 360 already.

aaaand bam! Just like that it hit me. NSMB is the perfect launch Mario title for Wii U. It is a title that appeals to to "casuals" and "core" gamers alike but does not really compete with any of the 3rd party offerings like AC3, Batman:AC, etc. could you imagine what would happen if Nintendo launched with a new 3d Mario? I think it would negatively affect 3rd party launch sales and contribute to losing 3rd party support.

 

[schuelma]

It should be pointed out that the titles you listed will not only be coming out around launch of the Wii U (except for Aliens), but that list already shows potentially stronger mature support than what the Wii had. It doesn't take a ton of games to cater to an audience, but it takes constant flow of games to maintain it and grow. For the Wii, for example, RE4 Wii did extremely well and exceeded Capcom's expectations, but there were no follow-up games soon after that launch to take advantage of that mature audience. Therefore, "mature" gamers had to go elsewhere. That was a missed opportunity.

Yeah, I agree that is a stronger initial list than Wii, but the Wii list was just fucking awful, so that isn't saying all that much.

 

[Hoodbury]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/06/gearbox-wants-borderlands-2-on-vita-requests-sonys-help/

So, does that mean that things could happen like this with Wii U versions as well? We bug Nintendo so they mobilize some of their contacts to make a Borderlands 2 Wii U port?

Seems like getting in contact with Pitchford would be easier than getting in touch with Nintendo. Look at how much effort was needed for Operation Rainfall to get their games which were Nintendo games already.

But I'd definitely be on board. The Borderlands game seemed like something I would enjoy but never got a chance to being a Wii only owner.

 

[Rösti]

I'm also wondering how many gamers like myself are purchasing Wii U day 1 with the intentions of grabbing up games like Arkham City, Assassins Creed, and Mass Effect even though I own both a PS3 and an 360 already.

I have no intentions of purchasing any of these multi-platform titles for Wii U. You can claim that Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition is an entirely new game (it's not) and tout any extra endings etc. to Mass Effect 3 you want, but it won't by any means justify an MSRP of something like $59.99. And I don't really see publishers dropping prices for products just because the games may be arbitrary, it's after all a new console.

Assassin's Creed III is of course a different story and that may be interesting if Wii U launches prior to the 30th of October when the game is slated for release. Ubisoft even marked the Wii U version for release on that day in their latest financial report. But I would not take that as anything greater in relation to when Wii U will actually launch.

I will certainly buy the console on day one regardless of what software is available. My biggest focus is on New Super Mario Bros. U.

 

[JAYinHD]

aaaand bam! Just like that it hit me. NSMB is the perfect launch Mario title for Wii U. It is a title that appeals to to "casuals" and "core" gamers alike but does not really compete with any of the 3rd party offerings like AC3, Batman:AC, etc. could you imagine what would happen if Nintendo launched with a new 3d Mario? I think it would negatively affect 3rd party launch sales and contribute to losing 3rd party support.

As much as I want a 3D Mario title at launch they did the smart thing bringing out NSMB. NSMB is easily accessible to the both "core" and "casual" audience and like you said I really wouldn't be to inclined to pick up another 3D right away (except AC3).

Like I said earlier though some of these ports are old, I have yet to play any of them so to me their launch lineup is indeed the most impressive I have ever seen.

 

[D-e-f-]

New thoughts of the day:

1.
Miiverse is the startup screen for the Wii-U. Miiverse is an online social gathering place is it not? They never said Wii-U is an online only system, so what would your Miiverse be like if you never go online or your internet connection goes out for awhile?

Would you just see your lonely mii wandering around by itself? Would Miiverse even boot up or would there be an offline startup home screen instead?

2.
Is there any word yet if games will use both the Wiimore/chuck AND the gamepad? I know you can use one or the other, but why not both at the same time? I really enjoy FPS's with the Wiimote/chuck combo, but I can see the gamepad adding some neat features to those games.

Can I control and aim and shoot with the wiimote/chuck but still have the gamepad resting on my lap for some of it's functions? Or is it one or the other?

Seems like this would make ZombiU's concepts even more realistic. Play with the Wiimote but then you have to actually go to your gamepad to do your inventory stuff and scanning.

Or for CoD and such, I can see using the gamepad for some of the Killstreaks but would still prefer to use the Wii-mote/chuck for normal run and gunning.

I guess this kinda sounds more like what Microsoft is doing with their Smartglass?

1. what EC said

2. Pikmin 3 does just that. Though I think you can slowly say goodbye to Wiimote-aiming controls. I doubt they'll bother with that in the future unless it's a multiplat title that also gets PS.Move support. (Btw, I hope Wii U gets the Resident Evil HD Collections with the Chronicles games and RE4 as well as some point since that should be extremely easy work ...oh and Dead Space Extraction HD and House of the Dead Overkill Extended! They should bring those over!)

 

[Lyude77]

Seems like getting in contact with Pitchford would be easier than getting in touch with Nintendo. Look at how much effort was needed for Operation Rainfall to get their games which were Nintendo games already.

But I'd definitely be on board. The Borderlands game seemed like something I would enjoy but never got a chance to being a Wii only owner.

I hope they find a way to bring Borderlands 2 to Wii U. I'm not entirely committed to getting it on 360.

 

[JAYinHD]

I have no intentions of purchasing any of these multi-platform titles for Wii U. You can claim that Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition is an entirely new game (it's not) and tout any extra endings etc. to Mass Effect 3 you want, but it won't by any means justify an MSRP of something like $59.99. And I don't really see publishers dropping prices for products just because the games may be arbitrary, it's after all a new console.

Assassin's Creed III is of course a different story and that may be interesting if Wii U launches prior to the 30th of October when the game is slated for release. Ubisoft even marked the Wii U version for release on that day in their latest financial report. But I would take that as anything greater in relation to when Wii U will actually launch.

I will certainly buy the console on day one regardless of what software is available. My biggest focus is on New Super Mario Bros. U.

That will def. be a huge hurdle for them to overcome. Had I played any of those games on my PS3 or 360 then I wouldn't dare shell out $59.99 for those ports regardless of any extra content as basically they are the same game.

 

[Bamstrokher]

Seems like getting in contact with Pitchford would be easier than getting in touch with Nintendo. Look at how much effort was needed for Operation Rainfall to get their games which were Nintendo games already.

But I'd definitely be on board. The Borderlands game seemed like something I would enjoy but never got a chance to being a Wii only owner.

I bought a 360 just to play Borderlands. It was that good. I then sold my 360 after that because there was nothing as fun to play, and I needed the money. When Borderlands 2 comes out I will get a 360 to play it on if it does not come for Wii U.

 

[Mithos]

That said I still don't get how it makes any sense at all to bring ME3 to Wii U, I mean... do they really have absolutely nothing else that they could bring over ?

I could possible double-dip on ME3 IF the Wii U version is running better then PS360 versions, AND it has the comics to do the ME1 and ME2 important choices in the start of the game, without the ME1 and ME2 choices there is no reason to get the game.

 

[Sadist]

The situation with the several ports makes me kind of weary though. It reminds me of the Wii's launch period (but in Wii U's case, the titles are bigger in scope) when in early 2007 the Godfather Blackhand Edition was released on Wii. The game had a €/$ 54,99-49,99 pricetag when the PS2/Xbox versions were marked down to a lower price, around 30-20 bucks. The un-informed consumers wouldn't consider the Wii version at that price. I just hope that publishers have reasonable expectations regarding Batman AC, Darksiders II and Mass Effect 3. Consumers will browse the other shelves and see the cheaper 360/PS3 versions of those games.

On the other hand, later multiplatform releases like Tekken TT 2, Assassin's Creed III and Black Ops II won't experience the same problems... I think.