shinra-bansho
Member
It's just what I recall reading in an interview with Evan Wells.
Found the old story.
It could be that Wells was ignoring the part about the $20M I guess, (but it doesn't really read that way to me.)
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Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
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Found the old story.
Nice, where did you get this quote?.
Nintendo has a knack for working some serious voodoo magic with its hardware. It may be a less realistic style, but I feel like we'll have an amazing looking game before too long. Hopefully we will at least see it by or around E3 '13.
No, there is too much wii u positivity right now. Need to restore balance.
"Wii U's CPU has a lower clock speed than the 360/PS3, I can't directly port my game to it because there is no Port button. I actually have to code and stuff".
Balance restored.
Good spinning effort; you made my co-workers look at me funny when I burst into a chuckle here.
I see these blips of positivity as an ounce of counterbalance to the fecal ton of negativity and thinly-veiled wishings of NintenDoom that we've had on the Gaming Side in recent times, haha..
Refreshing!
I think in the end all concern would not exist if Retro just allowed their game to be shown in some matter. Processor speeds, gpu, etc all of it wouldn't really matter if we just saw actual footage of what the Wii U was capable when it came to a complex "core" game truly designed for the system (not something that started off being for something else) from a quality and trusted team.
Which does bring up something I've been wondering about. Do we know if Project P-100 started off being a 360 game or was a Wii U game from the start? Or at the least running of assets that were meant for another system originally?
Which does bring up something I've been wondering about. Do we know if Project P-100 started off being a 360 game or was a Wii U game from the start? Or at the least running of assets that were meant for another system originally?
Bah. People will still speculate until release and talk about the specs until Wii U is replaced. Techies will be techies.
snowdog1971
Banned
Ninja Gaiden 3 isn't going to be overlooked by my good self, particularly now we have dismemberment goodness.
Not too sure how I'm going to pay for all this tbh, I'm looking at getting a black Wii U, a Classic Controller Pro, ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Arkham City, Assassins Creed 3, Ninja Gaiden 3, Aliens Colonial Marines, Darksiders 2 and Rabbids Land.
Yeah, people still argue about PS2/GC/XBox specs now. Saw a thread on Beyond3D the other day where people were still trying to argue that PS2 was more powerful than GC and arguing over games "MGS3 had amazing open worlds with amazing lighting and it felt alive, RE4 had fixed lighting and poor textures" ect, you can never stop this kind of thing, no matter what.
Side note, Beyond3D is utter rubbish these days, so sad
lostinblue
Banned
Pretty sure it doesn't include marketing and promotion, their side of the budget should be development-only. Them saying the game costed 20 million is different than Sony claiming it was a 20 million investment.
Might not even include actors and mocap if the one's stepping that bill for outside contracts are Sony (often happens with developers working for a publisher), not to mention if I recall correctly Uncharted needed outside contractors for scenarios. (perhaps not on the first outing though, I dunno).
On the other hand, being exclusive can reduce development costs a tad bit (although they tapped the console due to that and it's PS3 we're talking about, so perhaps R&D irons it out) if I recall correctly Sony (unlike most developers) has a mocap studio and they could have insider help/ticket priority like The Last Guardian is having (this is normal, at some point Nintendo turned Rareware into a Q/A support team, I've heard of Nintendo's NST sadly meeting the same end). Which helps keeping the costs down but isn't a viable for lots of devs (or a assisted production pipeline they have access to).
The games being short also helps, of course. Anyway, certainly under 40 million total, they also seem to not be out of control regarding dev costs/time seeing they can actually ship games this gen (4 of them, by the counts of it); One way or the other Uncharted (and Gears of War) are examples of sustainable investment with good results, but they're too close to hardware manufacturers to trust that a third party game could match it at the same price.
Silas Lang
Member
True. But for people like me who are more interested in the software side of things and who don't fully comprehend bits, flops, flippers and whatnot it would calm any uncertainties. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
Take out a small loan
and to top it off, there's most likely a few un-announced games for launch/launch window that are gonna be must haves...
Yeah, people still argue about PS2/GC/XBox specs now. Saw a thread on Beyond3D the other day where people were still trying to argue that PS2 was more powerful than GC and arguing over games "MGS3 had amazing open worlds with amazing lighting and it felt alive, RE4 had fixed lighting and poor textures" ect, you can never stop this kind of thing, no matter what.
Side note, Beyond3D is utter rubbish these days, so sad
Too those people, we know for a fact the GameCube is more powerful than the PS2, I see a lot of people arguing between which is more powerful, the GameCube or Xbox.
Since there is a positive vibe going around here, I'm going to say my prediction for release will be Oct 28th or Oct 30th.
I can't imagine they want to release so far after ACIII comes out and everyone already buys it for the other consoles.
Isn't ACIII, kinda the biggest game coming to the Wii-U? I can't believe they would sour it with releasing it weeks or a month later.
The earlier the better for me. I'm so ready to get playing.
I can't imagine they want to release so far after ACIII comes out and everyone already buys it for the other consoles.
Isn't ACIII, kinda the biggest game coming to the Wii-U? I can't believe they would sour it with releasing it weeks or a month later.
The earlier the better for me. I'm so ready to get playing.
lostinblue
Banned
True. Does it even matter?
I mean, it's like this wii u cpu thing if our speculation here is right (and it's a different cpu when it comes to it's inner workings); if the architecture is different (and every architecture was very different that gen) then it'll have different strengths.
Could be powerful enough to still surpass performance on code optimized for some other platform, but it isn't/doesn't have to be. It's like coming to the conclusion PSone graphics chip was actually simpler than the SNES one; hell yeah, it was. But the thing was so much more powerful that it didn't matter.
It's been a while since proportions were like that; so competing platforms will have strenghts and weaknesses instead; It took a Pentium 4 3.2 GHz to beat the GFlop performance of a Emotion Engine which was PS2 CPU (then again a Pentium II beat the crap out of it in integer).
It's all about tradeoffs now; and has been for a while. I actually think Gamecube tradeoff's were better thought out for what it was able to do with less and that's the main reason they were able to close the gap/somewhat match more expensive hardware (complete with the things it couldn't have at the time, such as shader model compliant shader units, since it wasn't being developed by a major desktop pc gpu manufacturer); but it certainly had them; if anything wii made sure they showed by dragging the life of the architecture for 6 extra years. Anyway, all in all top software showcasers in either platform couldn't run "as is" on the other by regular porting means, because they were too different.
Oh yeah, me too. In fact, I'm quite embarrassed that most of this tech talk goes over my head, considering I'm entering my fourth year as an electrical and computer engineering student. I don't read up on tech. :|
Dude, my father works at Sony and my brother at Nintendo, I know for a fact the PS2 is much more powerful than the GameCube. It's so powerful that developers couldn't even use it.
That's shocking, my uncle works for Nintendo and he said the Wii U successor will be called Wii Us : O.
Pretty much.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Flippers are essential.
That would really be the key benefit. The numbers will be numbers. The end result of what can be done with those specs is what will matter in the end. It would certainly calm down any uncertainty or at least be a huge leap in doing so.
Silas Lang
Member
haha Well lucky for us there are peeps here who can break it down for us.
I doubt your as ignorant as myself, considering my work doesn't involve computer hardware whatsoever. When it comes to tech you have to explain it to me like you would a five year old. lolYeah, I have to say that its the possibility of creative games from people like these that keep me coming back for more. World of Goo was just a ton of fun and laid on the anti-corporate irony so thick it just added to the charm (and then there's the soundtrack).
Silas Lang
Member
Well true, there was a flipper in the GameCube!
Yup I just want to see the end results. It won't matter much to me when whats in the box once I see a beautiful game on the screen.
So in Wust III at page 314 (50 post setting) we had allready the discussion about the CPU.
CU45HP... Project Flanker... = customized multicore variant of PPC 476FP/470S ???
That was the great question in April....
So.....we are still there??
I think Post #15665 from StevieP was one good summary for that. But feel free to read throgh that page/(s) cos we had that discussion all before.
I think a highly customized CPU with whatever basis and whatever clockspeed will be better than CPUs that are allready out there in this gen plattforms.
Cos they have more modern features.
When will we see it first time?
When a game is programmed from ground up for Wii U or is not a port (programmed alongside with another version).
All consoles suffer from weaker opponents, see PS2/GC/XBOX mostly the games on XBOX or GC were as bad as the PS2 version or had only minor upgrades.
What MS and Sony should fear is that that can also happen in the next generation if 3rd parties consider WiiU as lead plattform (aka PS2) and port it to the other two.
CU45HP... Project Flanker... = customized multicore variant of PPC 476FP/470S ???
That was the great question in April....
So.....we are still there??
I think Post #15665 from StevieP was one good summary for that. But feel free to read throgh that page/(s) cos we had that discussion all before.
I think a highly customized CPU with whatever basis and whatever clockspeed will be better than CPUs that are allready out there in this gen plattforms.
Cos they have more modern features.
When will we see it first time?
When a game is programmed from ground up for Wii U or is not a port (programmed alongside with another version).
All consoles suffer from weaker opponents, see PS2/GC/XBOX mostly the games on XBOX or GC were as bad as the PS2 version or had only minor upgrades.
What MS and Sony should fear is that that can also happen in the next generation if 3rd parties consider WiiU as lead plattform (aka PS2) and port it to the other two.
MadeInBeats
Banned
I'm thinking you know, how things are looking to shape up, this generation I might be a regular in the WiiU eShop. 1st party Nintendo games, and creative and artistic DD games, and very, very limited 3rd party purchases. As I'm getting older, and playing less I think that's just the ticket for me. Nintendo seem to be terraforming their indie landscape rather nicely.
Haha. Glad I could make someone laugh. I've gotten a few weird looks from co-workers when I laugh from reading GAF on my iPad. I know the feeling.Good spinning effort; you made my co-workers look at me funny when I burst into a chuckle here.
I see these blips of positivity as an ounce of counterbalance to the fecal ton of negativity and thinly-veiled wishings of NintenDoom that we've had on the Gaming Side in recent times, haha..
Refreshing!
It's good to see some positivity towards the Wii U as we get closer to launch.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Not trying to be mean or an ass or anything.
But it always makes me laugh to see you in here bitching about things others don't really understand, and then posting things you yourself don't really understand with such certainty.
It's like you and Van Owen in here complaining about how weak the WiiU CPU is in comparison to Xenon and Cell when no dev has said more than "It has a lower clock." or "We'll have to work something out."
No shit. A low clocked OoOE CPU is having trouble running code directly from a completely antithetical CPU design.
I'm not complaining about a weak cpu. We have developing saying that. It been like that for months. This is the first on the record. But i dont feel this is enough of a problem to stop current gen games from running on this system.
Supporting compute shaders and being a viable platform for compute aren't the same thing. But this may be the reason in IGN developing survey they said the "Wii U is the hardest to develop games for, one said they wont work with it at all because it’s complexities." Trying to force the r700 to run gpgpu code to make up for the lack of cpu performance would sure be a lot of fun...
"If WiiuGPU is radeon 4000/VLIW-based it's not going to do well at GPGPU. It's just a fundamental shortcoming of that architecture that AMD never managed to get around no matter how much they tweaked their compiler. Even writing directly for the architecture using their close-to-the-metal STREAM API usually didn't give good performance (except for a few notable corner cases such as Milkyway@Home for example)."
lostinblue
Banned
I doubt we're seeing multiplatform developers developing for cross platform with current gen in mind forcing a multiplatform game to run in GPGPU doesn't really make sense, it's a new feature they're not going cold turkey on it.
On top of it, say, CELL SPE's aren't good at all to run General Purpose, yet some developers had to work around it due to cpu lacking overhead with stuff like AI; my point? no doubt the performance they are used to from those methods (floating point ones) is weak as fuck; nothing new or unexpectable (should be way better actually).
Unlike the concept of going back when something is worse than it was before, GPGPU is going forwards (and hasn't even taken off just yet).
EDIT: It's not even that bad and bare in mind might also have something to do with optimization seeing CUDA (that sprouted OpenCL) was a nvidia endeavour; also, the VLIW4 modification, if present should help.
Using your example of cell, Wiiu gpu is poor at running compute shader code. How do you get around this when you say they move to compute shader seeing the platform is not well suited to run this code?
Its like saying cell is poor at running general purpose yet they will move to run general purpose code to boost performance.
They simply don't want premature judgements about the system, and with mainstreamers, first impression counts the most.
Everyone knows how this spreads.
We can be we happy that all the Wii games will be playable but the same as they were, they don't have the scaler in, they don't need it, the DRC has his own native output, and to fix the Wii issue
Maybe there will be a PAK, MPT HD Remake could be sold on it's own, there are 3 games, but other's cant, for example F-Zero GX .. if they do the old ones not sure, I believe they would do the franchise that have more than 2, so they can pack, but they go new F-Zero planned still that's like 3 years from now.
Maybe a lite pack of many but just a native resolution and other quick stuff without any overhaul, no idea, really, GCN solds through eShop could have that, not regarded as true remakes.
HD Remake doesn't mean it's only getting higher resolution and better textures, bugs fixed, performance improved or even doubled if it's 30 or something, other fixes, overall overhaul.
Nintendo's effort polishes other things as they did with Starfox 64 3DS
Everyone knows how this spreads.
We can be we happy that all the Wii games will be playable but the same as they were, they don't have the scaler in, they don't need it, the DRC has his own native output, and to fix the Wii issue
- Majora's Mask HD Remake (a lot of talk about it)
- Metroid Prime Trilogy HD Remake ( even one developer already mentioned this directly, hopefully nintendo notices)
Maybe there will be a PAK, MPT HD Remake could be sold on it's own, there are 3 games, but other's cant, for example F-Zero GX .. if they do the old ones not sure, I believe they would do the franchise that have more than 2, so they can pack, but they go new F-Zero planned still that's like 3 years from now.
Maybe a lite pack of many but just a native resolution and other quick stuff without any overhaul, no idea, really, GCN solds through eShop could have that, not regarded as true remakes.
HD Remake doesn't mean it's only getting higher resolution and better textures, bugs fixed, performance improved or even doubled if it's 30 or something, other fixes, overall overhaul.
Nintendo's effort polishes other things as they did with Starfox 64 3DS
metalslimer
Member
The funny part is when people like van owen pretend like their word is law and no one else could possibly be right. Anyway, it's good seeing some positive news about the Wii U Eshop
Well, its nice to see that the Shin'en thread is already dead. That guy who said 3 pages tops was right.
You should of made the topic title sound bad because than it would of been posted on a lot more lol.
lostinblue
Banned
First off, we don't know what's under the roof there exactly (and I grow tired of stating this and having people assume they know it all). Compute shader code is overly dependent on the Shader Model 5 specification (and Direct X 11 API, but that doesn't apply to non-microsoft platforms), not OpenGL/CUDA/GPGPU features. And VLIW architecture is not crap at it (SM5). I don't even know where you're coming from.
I'm not following.
Problem with CELL is not that you could do that stuff via other means (like some devs had to) it's that in an ideal scenario they wouldn't have to (and most of the time they'd rather aim lower with their game than actually do it); because it should have a more powerful general purpose cpu.
we don't know if the wii u is lacking in general purpose, we're seeing difficulty in ports from these thought faulty architectures; so in an ideal scenario (assuming the cpu is different rather than crap) they won't have to; they just need the platform to be known to developers and being taken into account from the ground up.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
You're not forcing an r700 to run gpgpu code.
You're running GPGPU code on a GPU finalized sometime early this year that may have used the r700 as a basis.
WiiU's GPU is excellent at running compute shader code.
Sorry I thought this was take a guess and claim it as a fact day?
Grampa Simpson
Banned
I'm very eagerly awaiting the beginning of:
Wii U Speculation Thread 8 - The no USC-fans club
Wii U Speculation Thread 8 - The no USC-fans club
DeviousAngel
Member
Well I said "hypothetical." You are right in that WiiU may not have a GPGPU.
However, if WiiU has a modified GPU able to "run GPGPU code," how can you be so certain that it is "terrible at running this code?" Has there been any indication, or PROOF, that this is the case? We barely even know what's under the hood and we can suddenly infer such things?
Thanks for the reply, bg. Very interesting read. I still find it strange that some developers are more preoccupied with the slower CPU, and how it affects current-gen ports, instead of talking about this "emphasis on GPU computing," and how it can benefit future game development. I can't believe it's about NDAs at this point. It just sounds to me like these devs are living in the moment, just trying to make sure current projects do well, and therefore describe WiiU's hardware and development solely in the context of the current generation. And I kinda see where they're coming from... HOWEVER, I think it would do GAF some good to be exposed to more articles that are more open about what makes WiiU's hardware unique for the future. So far, I can count the number of such articles with one hand, while concerns about the WiiU's performance over PS360 have been numerous for a while now. This, in turn, has bred a great deal of ignorance and misunderstanding in these forums. A lot of fighting too.
Sorry about the rant
I may not know much about tech, but I also found his statement odd. His answer seemed factual (reminds me a little bit of Ace
I miss you, Ace :'(
Sure and the wiiu could have a 7970 in it or anything else if we just throw out everything we know. Again I base my statement on the facts we have at hand. Not what it could have. No one is saying they know it all, what we are saying is everything we do know is this.... If you can find proof that back up it having sm5 or anything else then that would change the debate.
walking fiend
Member
facts? what facts? name one
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Humor me this: is Turks also 'poor at running compute shaders' given how it's VLIW too?
lostinblue
Banned
I'm not going to find proof to back up nothing I'm saying; because unlike you I'm not claiming anything.
I'm just saying you can't pull those "facts" out with a custom gpu whose architecture certainly reached sm5.0; if Nintendo wants it to be sm 5.0 it'll be; and even if not I'm pretty sure since it's a closed platform they can get creative in order to re-create such effects; it's not like it's fixed function/can't be programmed (notice how I'm not saying performance will double, unlike a past argument of yours
)You're threading unknown waters and throwing your guesses as facts, good luck with that.
He's guessing the gpu sucks at gpgpu (and therefore is not sm5.0/can't possibly do compute shaders right) because how developers are having problems with their ports due to the cpu part; because when dealing with a new architecture and with stuff they never dealt with before (gpgpu) they'll move their resources exactly there.
Yup, that's actually it.
The Wii U's GPU is more capable in features than any R700 chip ever produced? is that the fact you are talking about? because that's about the only thing we do know about Wii U's GPU and it's DX11 capable feature set, "2011/2012 bells and whistles" was another way it was put. That doesn't sound like the card you are talking about at all.
I'm not going to find proof to back up nothing I'm saying; because unlike you I'm not claiming anything.
I'm just saying you can't pull those "facts" out with a custom gpu whose architecture certainly reached sm5.0; if Nintendo wants it to be sm 5.0 it'll be; and even if not I'm pretty sure since it's a closed platform they can get creative in order to re-create such effects; it's not like it's fixed function/can't be programmed (notice how I'm not saying performance will double, unlike a past argument of yours
You're threading unknown waters and throwing your guesses as facts, good luck with that.He's guessing the gpu sucks at gpgpu (and therefore is not sm5.0/can't possibly do compute shaders right) because how developers are having problems with their ports due to the cpu part; because when dealing with a new architecture and with stuff they never dealt with before (gpgpu) they'll move their resources exactly there.
Yup, that's actually it.
But you are claiming this GPGPU? I claiming exactly what we know. You putting this sm5 and other stuff that I havent seen anywhere.
I'm not guessing, I stated the the r700 that the wiiu gpus based on and its not good at running compute shaders. Seems you agree with this statement since you put out sm5 and now "they will find away around this."
So let stick to what we know. the gpu is r700 based, if this is still correct, Would you agree or disagree with my statements? If they wanted sm5 or anything else they would have started on evergreen that was already out.
What new features are in the wiiu gpu? We have the leak sdk that seem to back up the r700.
We been over all these statements and now BG even at the point were he still believe its a r700 core. Correct me if im wrong on this BG. To what you guy are saying would change the core of the gpu.
MadeInBeats
Banned
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