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[ASIS]

I bet most of the hate for the GC controller comes from people who never bothered to pick on up and use it. I loved the button layout on that puppy. Some one needs to design and market a pro controller with that layout.

Its crazy. The GC controller seems like the most complicated thing until you memorize where the X and Y buttons are. After that, total bliss.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Yeah. Man I can't wait until someone opens up one of these babies and all is revealed. More exciting than the actual games at the moment

I can imagine it now as they open the case: "Please don't be Broadway. Please don't be Broadway..." haha. Sad thing is that opening the case probably won't tell us much about the processors themselves. We'll have to wait for a leak, official word (not likely), or someone to hack it.

Its crazy. The GC controller seems like the most complicated thing until you memorize where the X and Y buttons are. After that, total bliss.

Yup, and it was good for more than just Nintendo titles, as some like to claim. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time played excellently on it. All it could have used was a slightly larger "B" button, a true second analog, and for the Z button to gain a partner and take the shape of a more traditional shoulder button. That would have been perfection.

 

[The_Lump]

well...



Maybe Nintendo's design is not conducive to using SMTs.

Cool, thanks. That last part about security is very interesting. Would be very Nintendo-like to react to something like that. Could explain a shift in design but still not quite convinced Nintendo would have changed this halfway through, and like I said lherre seems very trusted around here and he said smt was in. Thats certainly made up my mind for now anyway!

On the subject though: Is this one of those things which, if missing, could hinder down ports?

 

[The_Lump]

Np, and thanks to Blu for clarifying. The varying reports on SMT (or lack thereof) are truly baffling. My only guess is perhaps Nintendo was working on a chip w/ IBM up to last year - some sort of stripped down POWER7 - but decided to ditch it in the end due to heat output or perhaps difficulty in achieving BC w/ Wii. There was a rumor that the chip was running at 3.5 or 3.6 Ghz (I forget which) that I recently came across again when looking through some old posts. Now, it's apparently anywhere from "a little bit slower" to "closer to Broadway than Xenon." Very strange indeed, but wsippel's discovery that they broke library compatibility back in April seems to indicate something was changed.

That would certainly explain a lot and fits in with everything we've heard so far. I really can't wait to find out what Nintendo has cone up with: either way it's going to be very interesting

edit: sorry, double post again...

 

[japtor]

It's great developers are trying to find good ways to use the GamePad but they shouldn't worry about it if it doesn't fit their game. Just stick a Hud/Menu on it. I'd much rather have the game than not.

And for a fighting game like they're discussing there's one really obvious use I'd like, just give me a move set, combo list, etc. While learning characters in SF4 I spent a stupid amount of time digging around in menus just trying to memorize moves. Just leave that on the gamepad screen at all times if someone wants to glance down for reference.

Could also have other basic stuff like random stats, or for online play it could show a lobby or (picto)chat or something.

 

[ArynCrinn]

And for a fighting game like they're discussing there's one really obvious use I'd like, just give me a move set, combo list, etc. While learning characters in SF4 I spent a stupid amount of time digging around in menus just trying to memorize moves. Just leave that on the gamepad screen at all times if someone wants to glance down for reference.

Could also have other basic stuff like random stats, or for online play it could show a lobby or (picto)chat or something.

This is a great idea. One of possibilities for the Gamepad I'm most excited about is relaying information on-screen that you can dynamically interact with. Metroid especially could be cool how they could integrate all types of world intereactions, lore and subsurface depth to the game design. I'm far less interested in asymmetrical gimmicks.

Zelda could also use it extremely well.

 

[Seance]

WiiU. O-Live? -_-

 

[10k]

Here's a even better idea. Take the GameCube controller and replace the nub stick with a proper stick, and make the buttons proportional, add a left shoulder. Done.

Better than copying the 360 layout and dropping the stick into a inopportune spot.

This. I know there's hate for the GCN controller in some quarters. But it probably is still my favorite controller. Make the changes you mentioned, plus I guess clicky analog sticks, and you're golden; not even sure if I'd feel the need to change the buttons any to "make them proportional". Great controller.

Its crazy. The GC controller seems like the most complicated thing until you memorize where the X and Y buttons are. After that, total bliss.

 

[snowdog1971]

Hopefully we get the next Tiger Woods on time next year. I know Nintendo filed a patent regarding the golf ball on the Gamepad, but there must be some slight change EA can make to get around that. It's actually kind of annoying. That was one of the coolest ideas shown at last year's E3 and now Wii U Sports is nowhere to be found.

I could be wrong but I think a patent holder can give permission to someone wanting to implement something that violates a patent. Hope so anyway because it was a very cool idea. I suspect they patented the idea to stop anyone from doing the same thing for the next Sony or Microsoft consoles if/when they both clone the GamePad next gen.

 

[XenodudeX]

What the shit is SMT

 

[Sheroking]

Knowing how Nintendo thinks, I wouldn't be surprised if symmetry with the Wii U Gamepad is the reason they have the right stick over the buttons. Probably doesn't hurt that it differentiates it in a more meaningful way from the 360 controller, but weren't demo controllers a slightly different shape?

But seeing as I vastly prefer the 360 controller to every single other controller ever, including the Gamecube controller, I'm good with it.

 

[ArynCrinn]

YES! Only thing that needs tweaking are the GC-style triggers, they were the greatest.

 

[Glass Joe]

holy shit Nintendo. do that. do that NOW. instead of being an "xbox clone" it will simply be a superior gamecube pad, one that comes very handy for gamecube virtual console games and is also fully featured for current games, as long as the sticks are clicky. And the triggers are true analog (which Nintendo better add to the GamePad tablet thingy last minute or else!).

So pretty and functional that I'm resenting the official pad more and more.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

And the triggers are true analog (which Nintendo better add to the GamePad tablet thingy last minute or else!).

Why do people bring this up? :.(

 

[AzaK]

What the shit is SMT

Simultaneous Multithreading.

 

[Meelow]

So I'm guessing the EA conference isn't happening?.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Its crazy. The GC controller seems like the most complicated thing until you memorize where the X and Y buttons are. After that, total bliss.

In retrospect, I found it incredibly helpful that every button was shaped differently, so I could work out by touch which button was which instead of having to look down and try to memorize which one had which letter stamped on or was which colour. This dramatically helped me to remember layouts for games.

It's comparatively hard as fuck on the Xbox 360 controllers that I play with at my friend's house.

perfection.jpeg

…okay, not quite perfection. Remember, the newfangled bottom shoulder buttons are digital, which is usually not a big issue but might be in two particular genres (racing and

Spoiler

Mario Sunshine

). Also, I don't see how it can break apart so that you're holding the two halves at an arbitrary distance. Oh, and I didn't even realize until this moment that it's using the button layout that I was just complaining about. For that matter, it doesn't have that much room for a battery, so it'll probably get pretty poor life. And it only supports four players, which is okay but I feel that having more would be nice. And turbo buttons would be pretty cool. Come to think of it, button programmability would be great. And a more symmetrical stick layout with the option of flipping the controls along the vertical axis would have been nice for left handers. And the colour is a bit blah considering the hues expected from the actual system. Also there's no win button.



edit: Notice that I failed to mention clickysticks for some reason.

 

[schuelma]

So I'm guessing the EA conference isn't happening?.

Its not even 5 PM on the West coast. For all we know it hasn't even started yet.

 

[chris3116]

I would buy this. I liked the GC controller.

 

[10k]

YES! Only thing that needs tweaking are the GC-style triggers, they were the greatest.

Here's a rough Gimp edit with added GameCube triggers lol. I'm sure the photoshop experts can do an epic job of this.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

In retrospect, I found it incredibly helpful that every button was shaped differently, so I could work out by touch which button was which instead of having to look down and try to memorize which one had which letter stamped on or was which colour. This dramatically helped me to remember layouts for games.

That was probably my favorite part about the GameCube controller. I prefer it over the standard cross buttons. The large A Button surrounded by a shell of other buttons was just so cool to me.

The only reason I'm concerned about the lack of analog triggers is the question of compatibility with GameCube games such as Super Mario Sunshine or Super Smash Bros. Melee. It's strange that Nintendo opted for digital triggers, but there's nothing we can do about it at this point.

I don't think Nintendo changed the position of the right analog stick specifically to differentiate itself from the Xbox 360 controller. I don't even think they copied the button layouts. It's just a GamePad without the screen. If Nintendo copied anything, I'd say it was the overall shape and ergonomics.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Here's a rough Gimp edit with added GameCube triggers lol. I'm sure the photoshop experts can do an epic job of this.

Now, it is near perfect. Assuming the D-pad is a bit bigger than the GC one was, also every button needs to be microswitched!

But I would pay a very good amount of money for this controller.

 

[big_erk]

I could be wrong but I think a patent holder can give permission to someone wanting to implement something that violates a patent. Hope so anyway because it was a very cool idea. I suspect they patented the idea to stop anyone from doing the same thing for the next Sony or Microsoft consoles if/when they both clone the GamePad next gen.

Sony and Microsoft most definitely, but also those cheap knock-off plug in TV games.

 

[10k]

In retrospect, I found it incredibly helpful that every button was shaped differently, so I could work out by touch which button was which instead of having to look down and try to memorize which one had which letter stamped on or was which colour. This dramatically helped me to remember layouts for games.

It's comparatively hard as fuck on the Xbox 360 controllers that I play with at my friend's house.




…okay, not quite perfection. Remember, the newfangled bottom shoulder buttons are digital, which is usually not a big issue but might be in two particular genres (racing and

Spoiler

Mario Sunshine

). Also, I don't see how it can break apart so that you're holding the two halves at an arbitrary distance. Oh, and I didn't even realize until this moment that it's using the button layout that I was just complaining about. For that matter, it doesn't have that much room for a battery, so it'll probably get pretty poor life. And it only supports four players, which is okay but I feel that having more would be nice. And turbo buttons would be pretty cool. Come to think of it, button programmability would be great. And a more symmetrical stick layout with the option of flipping the controls along the vertical axis would have been nice for left handers. And the colour is a bit blah considering the hues expected from the actual system. Also there's no win button.



edit: Notice that I failed to mention clickysticks for some reason.

Here is another 5 second edit. You want something like this then.

 

[big_erk]

Now, it is near perfect. Assuming the D-pad is a bit bigger than the GC one was, also every button needs to be microswitched!

But I would pay a very good amount of money for this controller.

Microswitches would be cost prohibitive, and I would miss the layout of the original buttons. Use the gamecube button layout but make the B button kidney shaped like the X & Y buttons.

This is the button layout I would like.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Microswitches would be cost prohibitive, and I would miss the layout of the original buttons. Use the gamecube button layout but make the B button kidney shaped like the X & Y buttons.

This is the button layout I would like.

I wouldn't mind that layout either to be honest, I was just trying to be sort of consistent to what Nintendo seems to be doing lately button layout-wise. But the original layout would be great, and while microswitches are for sure costly they improve accuracy, timing and even durability. And the programmable buttons idea is good too, and have a wired option like the Dualshock 3.

In fact I think a lot of the ideas from the Razer Onza TE, were great for controllers. Adjustable tension, programmable buttons within competitive reason, and microswitch face buttons. With Nintendo's build quality that would be a superb "Pro" controller. It might have a "Pro price point" too, but worth it.

 

[Meelow]

Its not even 5 PM on the West coast. For all we know it hasn't even started yet.

Didn't know the time it started, thanks.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

This is a great idea. One of possibilities for the Gamepad I'm most excited about is relaying information on-screen that you can dynamically interact with. Metroid especially could be cool how they could integrate all types of world intereactions, lore and subsurface depth to the game design. I'm far less interested in asymmetrical gimmicks.

Zelda could also use it extremely well.

So sad. People in our own fold using such hate words.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Porting from 4GB to 2GB is one thing, but then porting down to 512MB seems quite another, definitely not the same thing anyway.

While you're here lherre are you still sticking to 2 way SMT for the WiiU CPU?

Can we get some clarity on the SMT question? Does the Wii U dev kit allow for 2 way or 3 way SMT?

 

[GameplayWhore]

So sad. People in our own fold using such hate words.

It just means it's not the same on both sides. That's not really a hateful thing.

 

[ArynCrinn]

So sad. People in our own fold using such hate words.

I apologize for not clarifying, I didn't mean "gimmick" in any sarcastic or negative sense. It was intended to just be the objective definition. Not all gimmicks are bad or fancy arbitrary ways to input commands, some are great and make the experience better than it otherwise would have. See: House of the Dead: Overkill, Steel Battalion, or Kirby: Canvas Curse or even Odama.

Didn't mean to seem like I was shrugging off everything the Gamepad can do as a negative unnecessary gimmick. It's just that most of what has been presented in terms of asymmetric play just doesn't click with me, yet.

 

[snowdog1971]

Final Fantasy will go to the platforms Square deems most profitable, relative to development time and expenditure. Regardless of how scalable Luminous is, a port job to the Wii U from (hypothetically) a lead SKU on much stronger hardware will take time and money. If there appears to be too many development hurdles, or the Wii U's market penetration and/or software performance is poor, there would be little reason to port it.

The release of Dragon Quest X for the U alone is going to guarantee ridiculous sales in Japan. Square Enix following up that with a numbered Final Fantasy title is a no-brainer, as is the support of any publisher with any sense over there.

It wouldn't surprise me if we hear about a Monster Hunter title on the way too.

Even if the U only gets Dragon Quest X Nintendo won't be able to make the consoles fast enough, but if Nintendo can manage to secure a numbered Final Fantasy and a Monster Hunter title on top of that then Sony and Microsoft might as well not bother releasing next gen consoles in the East lol.

 

[Drago]

 

[Meelow]

The release of Dragon Quest X for the U alone is going to guarantee ridiculous sales in Japan. Square Enix following up that with a numbered Final Fantasy title is a no-brainer, as is the support of any publisher with any sense over there.

It wouldn't surprise me if we hear about a Monster Hunter title on the way too.

Even if the U only gets Dragon Quest X Nintendo won't be able to make the consoles fast enough, but if Nintendo can manage to secure a numbered Final Fantasy and a Monster Hunter title on top of that then Sony and Microsoft might as well not bother releasing next gen consoles in the East lol.

Lol at E3 2013,

Nintendo: "We are happy to announce Final Fantasy XV and Monster Hunter 4G is coming to the Wii U exclusive!"

Sony/Microsoft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Nintendo fans/Wii U owners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE&feature=related

 

[schuelma]

The release of Dragon Quest X for the U alone is going to guarantee ridiculous sales in Japan. Square Enix following up that with a numbered Final Fantasy title is a no-brainer, as is the support of any publisher with any sense over there.

It wouldn't surprise me if we hear about a Monster Hunter title on the way too.

Even if the U only gets Dragon Quest X Nintendo won't be able to make the consoles fast enough, but if Nintendo can manage to secure a numbered Final Fantasy and a Monster Hunter title on top of that then Sony and Microsoft might as well not bother releasing next gen consoles in the East lol.

Dragon Quest X is not going to be nearly as significant as the usual mainline DQ release. Frankly I think 500K for the Wii version is pretty realistic. I don't expect any more for the Wii U version.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I was browsing Global Foundries website and I came across something interesting. On the page promoting their 32nm/28nm High-K Metal Gate technology, there is a picture of Wii along with Xbox 360 used to represent games devices in which the tech might be found.

Kind of reminds me of how there was picture of Wii in the brochure for the PPC 476fp CPU.

More support for the theory of a 32nm GPU?

http://www.globalfoundries.com/technology/32-28nm.aspx

 

[Effect]

I have to know. What is this from? I've seen this used a number of times but have no clue what show or movie it's taken from.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Dragon Quest X is not going to be nearly as significant as the usual mainline DQ release. Frankly I think 500K for the Wii version is pretty realistic. I don't expect any more for the Wii U version.

It will not sell 5 mio, but it could be a cashcow for SE and open doors. At least it will push the systemsales if the game is any good and looks better on WiiU. Even if it would only be 500k (that´s what the DQ on Rails spinnoff made on the Wii), there are monthly fees. But i think it will be more

 

[ADANIEL1960]

I have to know. What is this from? I've seen this used a number of times but have no clue what show or movie it's taken from.

Jeremiah Johnson
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/

 

[Drago]

I have to know. What is this from? I've seen this used a number of times but have no clue what show or movie it's taken from.

All I know is that it's Zach Galifianakis in what I assume is a Tim and Eric skit.

I'm probably wrong though... I'd like to know too now.

EDIT:^^^ Or I'm 100% off the mark.

I'm such a moron :lol

 

[AzaK]

So I guess we now know about EA's Wii U support. They didn't show, so, well, they're not.

 

[XenodudeX]

Or maybe they weren't going to show anything there?

Nah couldn't be.

 

[Meelow]

schuelma said it might of not even started yet.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Dragon Quest X is not going to be nearly as significant as the usual mainline DQ release. Frankly I think 500K for the Wii version is pretty realistic. I don't expect any more for the Wii U version.

You don't think it'll do well at all? Final Fantasy XI did amazingly well, and manages to maintain 500k customers even after all these years. And it's basically the same idea - take a single-player experience, and expand it into a console MMO on a very popular console. I think it could kill if they market it right.

 

[Rafaelcsa]

One question for all people wanting the classic controller to become a Gamecube controller: have you played with the new classic controller? How do you know you won't like it better?

I like the Gamecube controller but a big problem I have with it is that it's terrible for 2D games. That digital d-pad is really, really bad in size and placement. Nintendo has been giving much focus to console 2D games ever since NSMBWii and the Wii U seems like will continue to do so, since it will already launch with a 2D Mario (not to mention Rayman and Trine). If the new controller is good for these games, it's already a win over the Gamecube controller.

For 3D games I don't think it'll make much of a difference. Analog triggers never felt like an important feature to me.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

I apologize for not clarifying, I didn't mean "gimmick" in any sarcastic or negative sense. It was intended to just be the objective definition. Not all gimmicks are bad or fancy arbitrary ways to input commands, some are great and make the experience better than it otherwise would have. See: House of the Dead: Overkill, Steel Battalion, or Kirby: Canvas Curse or even Odama.

Didn't mean to seem like I was shrugging off everything the Gamepad can do as a negative unnecessary gimmick. It's just that most of what has been presented in terms of asymmetric play just doesn't click with me, yet.

Nice clarification. I was hoping you'd say something like this. Though I was mostly joking I just find it curious that people mostly (only?) use "gimmick" when talking about Nintendo or Nintendo like software.

 

[Effect]

Jeremiah Johnson
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[chertipros]

So I guess we now know about EA's Wii U support. They didn't show, so, well, they're not.

It's over already? Hot damn. I was so ready for a battlefield 4 announcement

 

[ArynCrinn]

One question for all people wanting the classic controller to become a Gamecube controller: have you played with the new classic controller? How do you know you won't like it better?

I like the Gamecube controller but a big problem I have with it is that it's terrible for 2D games. That digital d-pad is really, really bad in size and placement. Nintendo has been giving much focus to console 2D games ever since NSMBWii and the Wii U seems like will continue to do so, since it will already launch with a 2D Mario (not to mention Rayman and Trine). If the new controller is good for these games, it's already a win over the Gamecube controller.

For 3D games I don't think it'll make much of a difference. Analog triggers never felt like an important feature to me.

The GC controller's D-pad always needed to be a lot bigger, and in any revision I would expect that to happen. Using the D-pad is something I generally like to do in games. A lot of the reason I loved the Gamecube controller was due to ergonomics and feel memory so to speak, you always knew each button not by distance or placement but also feel. It was just a very well built controller. The 360 layout isn't bad for ergonomics it just isn't as good in my opinion.

Nice clarification. I was hoping you'd say something like this. Though I was mostly joking I just find it curious that people mostly (only?) use "gimmick" when talking about Nintendo or Nintendo like software.

I had a feeling what you said was in jest, but you can't always be sure on the internet.

 

[ozfunghi]

What the shit is SMT

Same as SMH but with tits instead of head.