I was gonna wait until later, but I was thinking this for all your avatars:
All aboard the hype submarine!!!
I also have a title for the next thread in case we do use this pic for the future OP:
Nintendo Wii U: You'll Never See It Coming
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Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
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I was gonna wait until later, but I was thinking this for all your avatars:
All aboard the hype submarine!!!
I also have a title for the next thread in case we do use this pic for the future OP:
Nintendo Wii U: You'll Never See It Coming
Its a black WiiU too, I guess now that NSMB2 and 3DSXL is out they are gonna start the hype train for WiiU
ND announcement tomorrow plz
Blood Diamonds
Banned
So what happens if nothing gets announced tomorrow, too?
Do we go batshit crazy?
Do we go batshit crazy?
no he meant like what jak ii has
You know, I think you adn others really have to revisit Ocarina of time if you truly believe this. Cos apparently you'd be shocked how dated, empty and shallow it now seems. And how many times do people want to be argued for comparing Skyrim and other completely different games to Zelda, honestly.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The standard method for complaining about Zelda seems to be:
1. Take Ocarina of Time
2. Assert it was the "last good one".
3. Take any currently popular or trendy fantasy game which stars a man with a sword.
4. Assert "Zelda should be like that, that'll fix it".
Yes, that is my completely unfair hasty generalization for the night. I'm tired, sue me.
But... it could be the problem is, for a lot of people, Zelda isn't Zelda. It's "Nintendo's fantasy game." It seems Zelda is already genericized in the mind of many. So folks just want Zelda to be like whatever else they're playing at the moment.
That's kinda how I see it. Nintendo has changed up the Zelda formula so drastically so many times (despite what internet trolls may claim) that I don't think you can pinpoint exactly what makes a Zelda game "Zelda".
To me, Dark Souls is a better Zelda game than Skyward Sword.
KennyLinder
Member
I replayed it on GC, then more recently again on 3DS. It's the same formula that hasn't changed since the N64. Of course it will feel dated and empty, you can do lots more with modern hardware, but the core gameplay hasn't really changed that much. Do I want Zelda to be like Skyrim? No, but looking at how other modern adventure games work and moving with the times wouldn't hurt either.
Yup. Nailed it haha.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Dark Souls has no puzzles. It is inferior.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
You're complaining that you've played 3 versions of the same game and the formula hasn't changed.
The changes come in the sequels.
rehashes. the sequels to zelda games are called rehashes.
I was recently reading that Iwata statement where he said when necessary Nintendo won't hesitate to roll out resources on franchises that really need them and I was thinking.. what about the rest? what about those games that aren't graphical showcases? I know the budget for a Mario Party game won't even come close to a LoZ or a main Mario game budget but does that mean the Mario Party game will be techically the same as its predecessors?
I'm not expecting photorealistic graphics at 1080p 60fps with AA but I feel all of their franchises need... no! they deserve an upgrade in graphics. I mean.. circle shadows, plastic-like models and low-res textures should be a thing from the past.
I think I'm a little worried about how Nintendo will handle its franchises now that they're going HD =/
I really hope NintendoLand is just the bare minimum we could expect in this context. Nice lighting, shadows,
, animations etc.
Oh well.. just a thought. Don't kill me lol
I'm not expecting photorealistic graphics at 1080p 60fps with AA but I feel all of their franchises need... no! they deserve an upgrade in graphics. I mean.. circle shadows, plastic-like models and low-res textures should be a thing from the past.
I think I'm a little worried about how Nintendo will handle its franchises now that they're going HD =/
I really hope NintendoLand is just the bare minimum we could expect in this context. Nice lighting, shadows,
particles
Oh well.. just a thought. Don't kill me lol
KennyLinder
Member
JordanN
Banned
Eh, when has a Nintendo game never received an upgrade in graphics?
Mario Party 9 doesn't look like Gamecube and Mario Power Tennis doesn't look like the N64 version. And keep in mind the former was worked on hardware that represented an incremental upgrade. You'd have to be the most incompetent dev on earth to not easily surpass Wii games with Wii U's hardware.
I don't see the disparity in graphics being any different to every new system Nintendo moves to.
yesterday
chertipros
Member
Nah this is nintendo we're talking about. Of course they will upgrade the graphics. Unless it's animal crossing of course. I expect animal crossing u too look just like the city folk but at sub native res
Just remembered that my copy of NSMB2 is still on the way. Thank you for accidentally reminding me that I need to check on it.
EDIT: Horrible first post of the new page.
yea, your idea of "moving with times" is actually 'being more like these games'. Skyrim is a
nerd's
CaptNfantasy
Banned
You want to know why people think Ocarina was the last great Zelda? Because its the last Zelda they played when they were still young enough to not be all jaded. Now, no ones got any patience for anything. Everyone looks around at other games and thinks you can fit those traits into any other game. I sometimes have asked someone complaining about modern Zelda to describe HOW they would made the next Zelda if they could do it their way. They never have any hows, only demands. Its not as easy as people think. Especially when you set out using Nintendos goals for game creation. You arent going to get Dark Souls difficulty. Ever. Nor will you get gritty realism. If you are holding out for that you will be let down. Nintendo will continue to try to draw in female gamers, and novice gamers. They will never abandon story, and they will never make the story beyond epic. So anything you are holding out for realistically must fall within those parameters or you will only be let down.
Nintendo claims to want to draw back in the "core" gamers. Dont mistake that for a hardcore or gritty Zelda in the mail. It will never happen. Twilight Princess Cave of Ordeals is the closest youll ever get.
Heres what happens when you make Zelda open world where you can go anywhere.... people get lost. People get frustrated. People put the game down. People will always blame the game first rather than themselves and any glance around gaf will show you that to be true. Open world does not work WITHOUT paying a price in some other inverse way. Ive also heard people calling for getting all your items at first then doing the dungeons in any order etc. Great, now where did all that epic feeling of solving puzzles to gain new rewards go? Its gone or limited. You lose in the long run to gain for the moment.
Ive found when novices try to dream up games they think of what they want in the immediate and dont see how that impacts the big picture. The BIG PICTURE is different for alot of games. What works for some fails for another. Knowing nintendos design philosophy, there will never ever be a hardcore gritty dark souls zelda, ever. And thank christ for that, because it would be terrible. Whats more, Dark Souls already exists, just go play that and leave Zelda alone to its own evolution. The worst Zelda has ever been was Twilight Princess, when they tried to listen to these same types of fans that are now calling for Dark Souls style Zelda. Its better to let games do their own thing than to compare them just to be disappointed. If you just arent into Zelda anymore then just dont play it.
Nintendo claims to want to draw back in the "core" gamers. Dont mistake that for a hardcore or gritty Zelda in the mail. It will never happen. Twilight Princess Cave of Ordeals is the closest youll ever get.
Heres what happens when you make Zelda open world where you can go anywhere.... people get lost. People get frustrated. People put the game down. People will always blame the game first rather than themselves and any glance around gaf will show you that to be true. Open world does not work WITHOUT paying a price in some other inverse way. Ive also heard people calling for getting all your items at first then doing the dungeons in any order etc. Great, now where did all that epic feeling of solving puzzles to gain new rewards go? Its gone or limited. You lose in the long run to gain for the moment.
Ive found when novices try to dream up games they think of what they want in the immediate and dont see how that impacts the big picture. The BIG PICTURE is different for alot of games. What works for some fails for another. Knowing nintendos design philosophy, there will never ever be a hardcore gritty dark souls zelda, ever. And thank christ for that, because it would be terrible. Whats more, Dark Souls already exists, just go play that and leave Zelda alone to its own evolution. The worst Zelda has ever been was Twilight Princess, when they tried to listen to these same types of fans that are now calling for Dark Souls style Zelda. Its better to let games do their own thing than to compare them just to be disappointed. If you just arent into Zelda anymore then just dont play it.
Have you played Xenoblade?...
(more general response cont. below)
The problem here is that you guys need to stop looking at what peolpe are SAYING and think about what it MEANS.
Nobody wants Zelda to become Skyrim or Dark Souls EXACTLY. When people say that they mean they want Zelda 1 (NES). A huge open world to explore freely with dungeons accessible in almost any order and secrets to discover.
Dark Souls itself was about combat puzzles. "Can I outsmart the enemies and kill them before getting killed myself." I don't believe anyone wants specifically this. That's what the environmental puzzles are for in Zelda. The thing is, Dark Souls coupled this with an exploratory element and multiple paths to take in order to reach a goal. "Oh you went up through the cemetery? Yea those skeletons are no joke, you should've gone up the stairs first or downstairs to the right, there is a secret passage but it's guarded by a huge enemy you could sneak buy" - that is, I believe, what people want. The key thing is free exploration of the world.
Similarly, Skyrim is a gritty fantasy RPG with political quarrels and all the tropes you can imagine. People don't want that in a Zelda game. They want that "real forest" that you could go to or not because you went towards the river and found a cave or up towards the mountains and there was this village that was haunted by ghosts from the neighboring graveyard. This is the basic vision of why Zelda exists in the first place. The famous story of Miyamoto hanging out in the woods as a child and climbing around and stuff. The "real forest"-scenario is precisely what I imagined as a kid when I read about Ocarina for the first time in magazines. Thick foggy woods that don't force you down a path and you sneak through them with your bow at the ready. I wanted this so bad, this felt like where things should go in 3D Zelda for me back then.
Zelda games need to focus way less on story. Skyward Sword was about the origin of the legend in most ways and was a very straightforward "story" that got told and took you to places in the order it needed to. In a way, Metroid Other M and Skyward Sword had very similar issues.
^This, Uplay is apart of Ubisoft and from the leaked picture a few days ago Nintendo's version of Achievements/Trophies will be called "Accomplishments".
You're making too many assumptions and taking them as fact.
That achievement thing for Wii U again ... this does not mean anything! Wii games had achievements, too! This could just mean Project CARS will use in-game achievements like The Conduit or Wii Sports Resort or Metroid Prime Trilogy/3. This is on NO way any indication of a system-level achievement system for Wii U!
This is a terrible comparison and you know it. What are you trying to start here. Plus, for the amount of time you spend with the game, Zelda games don't have a lot of story in the first place. Its really beginning, middle and end for most of its exposition.
As someone who only recently experienced Ocarina of Time, I have to say it's the best paced 3D Zelda. I haved finished MM yet so I can't comment on it, but every Zelda since has had serious issues with pacing. Everything feels so fucking slow and dull in WW, TP, and especially SS. I have no nostalgia glasses for Zelda and I'd have to say OoT is the funnest of all of the 3D Zeldas. The newer ones have better level designs and are more polished in aspects but the bad pacing drains any enjoyment to be had from those games.
Hopefully Nintendo releases a Zelda that isn't boring. Sorry if this comes off a bit troll-ish. I just finished OoT 3D and got so pumped to finish my old save file from SS only to be really bored and uninterested.
Hopefully Nintendo releases a Zelda that isn't boring. Sorry if this comes off a bit troll-ish. I just finished OoT 3D and got so pumped to finish my old save file from SS only to be really bored and uninterested.
Unless you include gameplay exposition, which is by far worse than Other M in that regard, Fi by herself tortures the player. But it's not only that it's the constant hand holding, endless dialog bubbles every time you want to do anything. Skippable cinematics and cutscenes I can handle, but when it's forced into gameplay the way it's done in SS I lose patience.
Overall the franchise could lose 90% of it's story from both directions and be a better game for it.
I know what you mean. I only recently got into the series and I started with OoT3D and loved it from start to finish (especially the finish actually! What a great ending). I then got WW and found it quite slow and dull. I still haven't finished it actually.
Honestly WW isn't as bad as SS. Here's how I'd rank the pacing of the games (I've only played half of MM but if something fucks up the pacing, lemme know):
OoT MM TP WW SS
*cue angry Zelda fans*
This was analyzed before, if it wasn't system-wide it wouldnt be mentioned in such manner along with the PS360 counterparts, and it wouldn't be necessairly capitalized.
I am not going to repeat my self, i've discussed this some pages back, like 30 ... didn't save it since it wasn't that of a significant post.
System-wide Accomplishments are mainly for 3rd parties, nintendo said it won't use them in their games as they it spoils the games, and games who can have such rewards for doing something special already have much better system integrated for example Smash Bros Brawl the unlock system which is WAY better than any achivementZZZZ on PS360
You can see that here:
A few facts:
http://kotaku.com/5917363/better-fr...-nintendo-answers-our-burning-wii-u-questions
System-Wide supported but not mandatory:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30726
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/353309/achievement-points-not-mandatory-on-wii-u/
Nintendo Devs don't like the idea of achivements:
http://kotaku.com/5740114/a-nintendo-argument-against-achievements
The system is called such a way, we don't know what are it's rules or if it'll make 3rd parties to do it differently they have now on other consoles.
It's exactly like DLC philosophy, nintendo will allow it but they won't force it. But as well, don't expect western-style achivements and DLC from nintendo first-parties.
That's the philosophy i salute, that makes me stay their customer and reafirms my position.
You people may don't feel like so, but this is the best and most important news for me i have been secretly dreading to hear and it's awesome. I was fearing it would turn into a modern warfail, nintendo didn't let me down. You should all be very thanful for that, the E3 conference really is irrelevant, they maybe have some great game in works which may be shown when it's more developed, and I aslo don't like to hear about them too soon.
Disorientator
Member
Agreed.
Since I posted this, people/sites decided to read it as "WiiU Achievements (and name)" confirmed, when it's actually not, at least not from that document.
Probably some sort of (edit: system-wide?) achievement system will be present, but until Nintendo or some dev confirms it (edit: and that document isn't a confirmation for me) , it's all speculation and nothing more. (<- talking 'bout the name)
I just saw some old pictures of me and my brothers and there has been one where we hold a SNES with Super Mario World bundled. Man, if I knew how that game would change my life back then..
I will get NSMBU at launch. I need my 2D Mario for my new Nintendo home console, fuck dem haterz
I will get NSMBU at launch. I need my 2D Mario for my new Nintendo home console, fuck dem haterz
Bony Manifesto
Member
Honestly? Not much. It's just a number that goes up the more you play games on a particular platform. It's there to give a sense of progression, like experience points in an RPG.
But the point I'm trying to make is that your idea of accomplishments not having any sort of uniformity between games at all is totally antithetical to the idea behind cross-game achievements. What kind of information would you propose be exposed by a Mario game? And a Zelda game? What about a Call of Duty game? What form would the UI display this information in?
Nostremitus
Member
I'm glad I didn't stay up waiting on news.
The only thing that I don't like about them is that they do nothing. Wouldn't it be cool that if you get 100/100 Achievements in a certain game you will get access to the beta of the sequel or something?
They are just numbers and I don't give so much about numbers
Smiles and Cries
Member
okay I'm awake what did I miss?
Disorientator
Member
I'm not into achievements either, but since it's optional, I don't have a problem.
I guess it goes something like: Convert gameplay progress->Numbers = A result in a form that's easier to compare/track?
Smiles and Cries
Member
It is far better that they do nothing... then I can just ignore them... I don't like the ones that pop up in th middle of the screen breaking my immersion but this fad is here to stay
Entirely of dungeons? Not really, i like the part of exploring and interacting with NPC, but i really love the "puzzle/combat/map" of the dungeons. And for me that i'm "only" one player it's easy to say what i want, maybe for the people who have to make the game it's hard to make everyone happy.
Equal is enough, superior? It's not a race
I think the one thing OoT did differently then all the other 3D games, and Miyamoto or Aonuma spoke of this, is that you were thrown into a dungeon in the first 20 minutes (The Deku Tree). Whereas it takes over an hour in all other 3D Zelda's. It takes awhile to get going.
Twilight Princess is what you get when Nintendo caves to the fans' bitching. We should've all taken that as a lesson.
Hell, the last video game I was ever super hyped for was Skyward Swowrd, which was still one of my favorite games of 2011. I don't know what kind of mental retardation I suffer from that allows me to still enjoy the modern Zelda games when apparently I'm supposed to be tired of them.
Nintendo's never gonna make another Zelda that pleases the whole base again. It's too fragmented. Each fan enjoys the games for completely different reasons.
Hell, the last video game I was ever super hyped for was Skyward Swowrd, which was still one of my favorite games of 2011. I don't know what kind of mental retardation I suffer from that allows me to still enjoy the modern Zelda games when apparently I'm supposed to be tired of them.
Nintendo's never gonna make another Zelda that pleases the whole base again. It's too fragmented. Each fan enjoys the games for completely different reasons.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Even Nintendo fans like having objectives to work towards, no matter how ridiculous and pointless they are - just look at the 1,000,000 coin thing in NSMB2.
Yeah, who the hell would want Zelda to be like Skyrim. While we're at it, let's make Mario Galaxy like Mass Effect.
I'm not trying to start anything and it's not a terrible comparison at all. I didn't say they had 100% the exact same issues in all areas. I said similar.
Skyward Sword was extremely guided and shoved the player down a narrow path compared to previous Zelda games with very little exploration and quite a lot of narrative elements thrown into the mix that interrupted or even removed all elements of player-discovery. ("thanks, Fi ... I would've never thought the glowing thing over there might be important!")
Other M was extremely guided and shoved the player down a narrow path compared to previous Metroid games with very little exploration and a huge narrative focus that further restricted the traditional exploration and isolation. ("oh that door is locked and the sector is off limits and oh, by the way, you can't use the stuff you have because I haven't given the OK yet")
Now tell me again the comparison is terrible.
I'm just now realizing this but I think the increased indudstry-wide fixation on story and video games in the recent years has even reached Nintendo and forced them into this corner where they're not fully committing and trying to blend it into their own traditional design and it causes a lot of problems.
I love me some well told story in my game but if it negatively affects the gameplay experience something needs to be done. What was so awesome about Zelda 1? The game told you "it's dangerous to go alone, take this!" and then it shut up and let you be on your way to your own adventure and discovery.
Super Metroid (and to a lesser extent the original Metroid) are so well regarded because tells you what happened before and what you're doing now and then it shuts up completely and lets you discover the rest.
you should read my response to that (on this page right here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41245253&postcount=17757)
Jorok Goldblade
Member
ÀI replayed OOT on 3DS when it came out, and the played SS five months later when it launched, and that made this same issue glaringly apparent to me. With the Optical-diac based games, the Zelda team seemed to have become obsessed with getting a high hour count, while the cartridge based games where about squeezing as much game as possible into such tiny storage. I'll take a 20 hour Zelda that is as tight as Ocarona over a 50 hour hame that is half filler any day.
So guys, what did I miss for the last couple of days?
My connection went down
honestly? nothing. not even a little.
other than STRONG hints of a Black Ops 2 confirmation (we all know it's coming anyway so ...meh)
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