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Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
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Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Am back...unbanned :/
GameplayWhore
Member
That's why I was really happy about the Wii Remote and Nunchuk. We got a pointing device, similar in fundamental operation to the mouse, but we also got an analog stick, which was a hell of a lot better than four digital keyboard keys to control movement. I swear, I was so hyped for a true next generation of first person shooters that I was pretty disappointed when the genre somehow ended up regressing for the most part. :/
Focus on gameplay instead of the less gamey aspects? I approve.
But then, "Origin" doesn't exactly mean as much to EA as it used to, does it*? I fear the day they announce a "Strike Commander" game and it turns out to be a baseball or bowling simulator.
* for those not in the know, it used to be the name of an amazing company that EA bought then turned into a coarse powder in terms of qualitative releases; now it's
the name of their digital download service or something.
Jaded Alyx
Member
God, why did I leave this thread.
Anyway, does the Pro controller not exist in white?
Anyway, does the Pro controller not exist in white?
The battery life is probably short to keep it light. I'm sure they could cram in a larger battery pack to get longer life (and I wouldn't be surprised if third parties address this), but the penalty is extra weight.
Trials HD is actually playable with digital controls for the most part, only issue being longer extreme inclines (I played through most of the game with an arcade stick after the game on the 360 pad destroyed my wrists for a while). The physics on Trials 2 is what make it a pain with digital controls.
Not that I don't want them, seeing Project CARS getting announced made me excited cause I haven't had anything approaching a sim racer for a long ass time, I'll be annoyed if there's no analog triggers (well, for GC VC too). Also just remembered Codemasters and Dirt was on last year's sizzle reel, and apparently they said F1 was coming too. And for anyone that mentions the right analog stick, my main issue is that you can't do left foot/simultaneous braking with it. Then again I guess they could do something insane like tilt control then use the sticks for gas/brake and triggers for paddle shifting.
I thought it was people that regularly buy and play traditional games, like I think I've heard Mario and Pikmin referred to as core games...I'd throw Madden, CoD, and a bunch of others in there too. I just consider it a really vague catch-all term for people that play the bigger titles, and even then it's bad since a lot of people only ever play a few big titles, I refer to those as "mainstream" myself..."casual" would work too but that's generally reserved for other games already.
It seems like some of the bigger titles (which are the ones that would most likely get VC/fancy port treatment) used them...then again F-Zero GX and Sunshine are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Then there's stuff like the Star Wars games (not that I expect them cause F5 being dead and SW licensing being a pain) that used the click at the end.
I seriously might go on a GAF vacation for a week or two.
The E3 fallout is still in the air it seems...
Is he staring at the boobs in the Far Cry trailer?
GameplayWhore
Member
That's the definition of "core audience" in any industry*. It's kind of suboptimal to use the term to refer to games, though. I mean, there's a fairly measurable difference between somebody to whom the industry is a hobby, but the difference is indistinct with the products. Wii Play has been used heavily by some of the coriest of core gamers (this video is the definition of what core gaming is). Nearly any game can be enjoyed both by the core audience and people who buy and play casually. There are a few examples out there that buck the trend and can only cater to one of these groups, but they are incredibly rare.
I think the terms "core game" and "casual game" really need to be deleted from the record. They're fairly meaningless, save for dungslinging.
Btw, your post last night about standardized hardware was pretty great. I hope to revisit the issue some time later, and I hope you're there when I do.
* save for the word "traditional". Combat is a "traditional" game. It would be dismissed as "casual" in the current environment. Donkey Kong, Mario bros, Asteroid, they're all traditional games, but they are not marked so. Metal Gear Solid? That broke tradition. Mario 64? That broke tradition. Madden? Holy crap, did that break tradition!
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
It never leaves
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
No one who really loves gaming gives a shit about core vs casual. It's a flawed question. If you want to know what is core, you've already lost. It has nothing to do with graphics and everything to do about gameplay. Gameplay that sucks you in, rewards you, challenges you. Nothing about COD, to me, is rewarding or challenging. It actually insults what is typically a challenge. There is no real balance to the guns (pick up any automatic gun in SP and you can't really distinguish them, based on levels, enemies, etc), no balance to the levels (just move from one place to the next and the fighting will stop until the next set piece. I can't stop the fighting thru skill but thru movement and location...that's insulting), many areas. I know a ton love the MP and I can't comment but to not have progressed in the SP over 4-5 iterations and the gameplay makes me think it's a casual experience.
I've played the shit out of Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Mario, Advanced Wars, Metal Gear, etc. These unique set of games have finely tuned mechanics that reward skill, suck you in until you get callouses on your thumb, hunger headaches and other maladies. I get the same amount of enjoyment from COD as I get from Wii Sports and Brain Age. Good diversionary fun but an unfaithful level of challenge. It is so hard to clearly define it but it revolves around challenge, gameplay, reward and skill. It's like porn: I know it when I see it.
Hmm. When i joined, and even when I was lurking, things seemed pretty chill around here.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
So, at 21 posts per day, you're just heaving stuff up there. A lot of it is going in but overall, you're hurting the board....Makes a lot of sense.
Clovingbrook is bestbrook.
ynp
That's his sister dude.
Yeah it's all generally BS terms that are pointless since not everything works strictly in one or the other, hell I'd consider a lot of the "core" games to sell most to "casual" gamers. Same goes for "traditional"! It's the best I could come up with, like game types that have been around for a while and are generally accepted as uh, games...as opposed to "non games"? (which are usually clearly games...). It's all ridiculous.
Oh and about standardized hardware (revisiting the issue now that it's in my head!), I don't think I mentioned another route, standardized platforms. Not entirely different from now, but more towards standardized hardware in a sense, albeit separate standardized hardware. Basically instead of tearing down and rebuilding every 5-10 years, they'd follow the computing path where most new hardware stays compatible with previous generations, building up and adding to their ecosystems rather than restarting completely every generation.
I can see MS planning to do this simply cause they already have experience with it in Windows and their other competitors. Nintendo might be going this route considering the way they've handled the hardware lately (keeping things compatible), and particularly with pushing digital distribution, where games can be long gone in retail but remain for sale digitally for future generations. I have no clue about Sony, although looking at them lately I'd guess they might have the same idea but will manage to botch the execution somehow.
Otherwise there's also the idea of separate software platforms on top of standard hardware, like how OS X runs on top of relatively standard hardware. I don't see this happening cause the possibility of getting hacked to run the other platforms (like Hackintoshes), or simply never agreeing on stuff like the hardware itself. Basically the same reason I don't see a standard console in general, again barring one company destroying everyone else and turning the market into one console by default.
Maybe that's what he's into, it worked for royal families back in the day! (...other than those random genetic defects caused by inbreeding)
Jaded Alyx
Member
Join Date: 12-24-2011
Ah, I see.
It's like this at the beginning of every generation.
NBAGAF joke?
Apophis2036
Banned
Thanks a lot for the reply and the explanation mate.
I don't think for a minute that there wasn't one graphically impressive game they could have shown tho, wasn't Wii U in development from 2008 ?, even if they started making a game at the same time as E3 2011 then there would be something to show a full year later.
I'm talking 10 seconds of each game, or even one game, i still can't believe they failed to show at least one of their big ten IP's.
Ah well, they can't change it now i suppose, it's looking like they are going to have at least 15 months alone in the next generation anyway so there is plenty of time.
Maybe they are saving them all for E3 2013 to take all the attention from the 720 and PS4.
The biggest disappointment for me over the past month is that it seems two out of Pikmin 3, ZombiU, Project P-100 and Lego City will prob not be out until early 2013.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Well, now people are saying that the Wii U will have no games that surpass PS3 first-party games graphically, the "vast majority" of Wii games looked worse than average Gamecube games, and that nothing on the Wii looked better than previous generation games.
It's a real "quality" discussion going on in there right now.
I thought I could handle it but the stupidity is off the charts so I just left.
And that at minimum the Wii U is a 360 which was taken as equal to 360 or maybe very little better. It's the same discussion for the last several months but with more crazy.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
In the recent Investor Q+A, Iwata explains why Nintendo are being so secretive. (It also explains why E3 was so lacking.)
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/07.html
Iwata (#16) said:
Remember when we all thought E3 would shut up all the doubters with a relentless torrent of new info and games?
Yeah..
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, though it's only about a week until some big things take place. That Wii U Experience event in New York starts on the 26th I think, and Nintendo's 72nd Annual General Meeting of Shareholders is on the 28th of June.
Most likely will that event in New York feature only the same demos as on E3, but maybe more information about the console will come from there. Attendees are encouraged to take pictures and record video, so at least we will have more of that. Also, the event is now "sold" out.
DaSorcerer7
Member
Rösti;39084774 said:
Good to know, looking forward to it.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
More discussion about power. Shiggy speaking to IGN:
Of course, few were expecting Wii U to combat Durango and Orbis in terms of hardware, but I think this is the first time I've seen Nintendo comment on this. Also, anyone feel tempted to create a thread for this, put some effort in it so it doesn't turn into yet another lol thread.
Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/20/miyamoto-discusses-wii-us-future
Of course, few were expecting Wii U to combat Durango and Orbis in terms of hardware, but I think this is the first time I've seen Nintendo comment on this. Also, anyone feel tempted to create a thread for this, put some effort in it so it doesn't turn into yet another lol thread.
About Miyamoto's quote regarding competition not being able to balance power with costs:
I think Miyamoto is underestimating Microsoft's willingness to lose money on each console sold. I see MS putting out a powerful system that isn't priced significantly higher than Wii U's price. And they'll do it specifically to kill the whole "Price vs power" argument that Nintendo keeps using. I expect Microsoft to use a lot of dirty tactics to derail the Wii U.
Microsoft is not Sony. They are willing to lose money to grab market share. They did it with Xbox 1. They did it with Xbox 360.
Sony will have a tough time balancing power with costs. Sony doesn't have that wiggle room with money. But it's not as big of an issue for MS.
I think Miyamoto is underestimating Microsoft's willingness to lose money on each console sold. I see MS putting out a powerful system that isn't priced significantly higher than Wii U's price. And they'll do it specifically to kill the whole "Price vs power" argument that Nintendo keeps using. I expect Microsoft to use a lot of dirty tactics to derail the Wii U.
Microsoft is not Sony. They are willing to lose money to grab market share. They did it with Xbox 1. They did it with Xbox 360.
Sony will have a tough time balancing power with costs. Sony doesn't have that wiggle room with money. But it's not as big of an issue for MS.
thegodsend
Member
Okay guys, I've just arrived home after a Wii U demonstration in Germany.
Some initial impressions:
Hardware:
- the Wii U Gamepad is extremely light and feels great. Analog sticks are instantly comfortable if you are used to play with Nintendo controllers. The buttons feel clicky and responsive and are easy and comfortable to reach even without looking at the controller. L+R and LZ+LR are also perfect to reach and feel good but there are definitely no analog triggers on the back. All in all the Gamepad is a joy to play with.
More importantly, the screen is vivid and responsive and both 3D and 2D games looked great on it. The colors are really bright, feels very HD, even if it isn't. I own both a Vita and an iPad 3 and the screen still looked modern and great.
- the Pro Controller feels great, too. For me it was easy to play with the left sticks and the right buttons regardless of the uncommon placement.
- the console itself looks good, to me all materials look like it's a bit higher in quality than Wii. But maybe because all was brand new
Software:
- Pikmin 3. The moment you watch it on a big HD TV, you're sold. While you can see it's origin, it definitely does not look like an upscaled Wii game. There are a lot of cool small visual touches I haven't noticed in the videos, like reflections on the enviroment and on the characters and enemies. I played it with Wii Remote + Nunchuck and I really like the controls that way.
- New SMB U. It's what you expect. You can play single player on the Gamepad and use a button to do the spin attack, which I really like. Multiplayer was fun but placing blocks with the Gamepad was dull compared to actually playing the game. It's more a father-son-thing. Apart from that, it looks perfectly anti-aliased, very nice parallax scrolling and background details and just plays as you would expect from a Mario game.
- Batman. The visuals do look worse than PS3. Horrible texture pop in and framerate issues. When using the boomerang thing, somehow the graphics looked more detailed on the gamepad than on the TV. The gamepad ideas looked a bit tacked-on. Batman's new suit is very shiny.
- ZombiU. It's very slow and scary and feels great. It does use the gamepad in very clever ways and you're really losing control of what's going on around you as soon as you have to look in your backpack, and you're nervous and scared. Even within a crowd. Controls felt really good to me. Visuals are on par with better-than-average PS3/360 games with some nice lighting effects but nothing extraordinary. The game looked pretty polished to me. Multiplayer was fun, too, but I didn't spend too much time on it.
- Nintendoland. I didn't care about it after E3. I played the Ninja minigame and thought "nice. but boring.". I played the Animal Crossing game and it was fun, so I played it again three times, then I wanted to play something else. That was the Luigi's Mansion minigame.
Honestly, this is my new system seller. I played the minigame for one hour continuously with the same four people. The person who finally "killed" the ghost got rewarded in getting the gamepad. It is perfectly balanced, you have to communicate all them time and there was not a single match that was boring. It's that good. Best multiplayer session I've had in a very, very long time. We only stopped playing, because Nintendo forced us to.
Bonus impressions:
- New Super Mario Bros 2 for 3DS: It's fun, and I found it relatively demanding compared to it's predecessors because you're constantly trying to get more coins and you're doing more risky stuff. The 3D effect was strange (and different to the 3DS eshop trailer). In 2D mode, the background was sharp and clear. In 3D mode, the background was blurry and much further away.
- Castlevania: I only played it for 5 minutes, visuals look great for 3DS but the framerate was horrible. I can't comment on gameplay as I haven't played the old games.
- Luigi's Mansion: Very polished and full of charm. The map I played, a clock tower, had something like 6 levels and looked very big. The controls are better now than E3 build 2011 as slight movement of the gyros already helps to change the angle of the cleaner and the 3D is a bit more subtle and doesn't get distorted that fast. I still hope for support of the second circle pad.
All in all I came away much more impressed than after E3. Personally, the Wii U is a must buy as long as it is around 299$. I'm looking forward to play Nintendoland now, and I would buy Mario, Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, as long as there is enough content. I didn't play Project P-100 because I got stuck with Luigi's Ghost House, but it looked fun and was graphically maybe the most impressive game (great shading).
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer.
Some initial impressions:
Hardware:
- the Wii U Gamepad is extremely light and feels great. Analog sticks are instantly comfortable if you are used to play with Nintendo controllers. The buttons feel clicky and responsive and are easy and comfortable to reach even without looking at the controller. L+R and LZ+LR are also perfect to reach and feel good but there are definitely no analog triggers on the back. All in all the Gamepad is a joy to play with.
More importantly, the screen is vivid and responsive and both 3D and 2D games looked great on it. The colors are really bright, feels very HD, even if it isn't. I own both a Vita and an iPad 3 and the screen still looked modern and great.
- the Pro Controller feels great, too. For me it was easy to play with the left sticks and the right buttons regardless of the uncommon placement.
- the console itself looks good, to me all materials look like it's a bit higher in quality than Wii. But maybe because all was brand new
Software:
- Pikmin 3. The moment you watch it on a big HD TV, you're sold. While you can see it's origin, it definitely does not look like an upscaled Wii game. There are a lot of cool small visual touches I haven't noticed in the videos, like reflections on the enviroment and on the characters and enemies. I played it with Wii Remote + Nunchuck and I really like the controls that way.
- New SMB U. It's what you expect. You can play single player on the Gamepad and use a button to do the spin attack, which I really like. Multiplayer was fun but placing blocks with the Gamepad was dull compared to actually playing the game. It's more a father-son-thing. Apart from that, it looks perfectly anti-aliased, very nice parallax scrolling and background details and just plays as you would expect from a Mario game.
- Batman. The visuals do look worse than PS3. Horrible texture pop in and framerate issues. When using the boomerang thing, somehow the graphics looked more detailed on the gamepad than on the TV. The gamepad ideas looked a bit tacked-on. Batman's new suit is very shiny.
- ZombiU. It's very slow and scary and feels great. It does use the gamepad in very clever ways and you're really losing control of what's going on around you as soon as you have to look in your backpack, and you're nervous and scared. Even within a crowd. Controls felt really good to me. Visuals are on par with better-than-average PS3/360 games with some nice lighting effects but nothing extraordinary. The game looked pretty polished to me. Multiplayer was fun, too, but I didn't spend too much time on it.
- Nintendoland. I didn't care about it after E3. I played the Ninja minigame and thought "nice. but boring.". I played the Animal Crossing game and it was fun, so I played it again three times, then I wanted to play something else. That was the Luigi's Mansion minigame.
Honestly, this is my new system seller. I played the minigame for one hour continuously with the same four people. The person who finally "killed" the ghost got rewarded in getting the gamepad. It is perfectly balanced, you have to communicate all them time and there was not a single match that was boring. It's that good. Best multiplayer session I've had in a very, very long time. We only stopped playing, because Nintendo forced us to.
Bonus impressions:
- New Super Mario Bros 2 for 3DS: It's fun, and I found it relatively demanding compared to it's predecessors because you're constantly trying to get more coins and you're doing more risky stuff. The 3D effect was strange (and different to the 3DS eshop trailer). In 2D mode, the background was sharp and clear. In 3D mode, the background was blurry and much further away.
- Castlevania: I only played it for 5 minutes, visuals look great for 3DS but the framerate was horrible. I can't comment on gameplay as I haven't played the old games.
- Luigi's Mansion: Very polished and full of charm. The map I played, a clock tower, had something like 6 levels and looked very big. The controls are better now than E3 build 2011 as slight movement of the gyros already helps to change the angle of the cleaner and the 3D is a bit more subtle and doesn't get distorted that fast. I still hope for support of the second circle pad.
All in all I came away much more impressed than after E3. Personally, the Wii U is a must buy as long as it is around 299$. I'm looking forward to play Nintendoland now, and I would buy Mario, Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, as long as there is enough content. I didn't play Project P-100 because I got stuck with Luigi's Ghost House, but it looked fun and was graphically maybe the most impressive game (great shading).
If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer.
Cash reserves decreased by $4.4 billion. $350 million of that was due to exchange rate changes. A further $1.73 billion was due to spending on short term investments.
Total current assets (cash and assets that can be turned into cash within 1 year) decreased from $18.4 billion to $14.3 billion.
That's about as much as I can fathom on their current financial situation
EDIT: Got the number for losses from exchange rate changes wrong so I've corrected it.
I went to the CoD-WiiU thread expecting it to be started by ClovingSteam, and was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't him this time. Now I find out that ClovingWestbrook is ClovingSteam.
Apophis2036
Banned
Is the console still under NDA ?.
Why don't a company like Crytek who are right into their hardware just come right out and say 'look, everyone who is saying it's onpar with PS360 STFU, it's at least twice as powerful' ?.
The console would only need to have 1GB of Ram, 20MB's of eDRAM and a 480 FLOP GPU to be twice as powerful as the 360.
Yes the tablet when used to render another version of the game will take away from that but still, come on Nintendo, it's starting to worry me that now even after E3 they are still not coming out with at least simple stats or even letting third parties talk about it.
Also to BG, Ideaman if the NDA is over can't you tell us the exact specs of the latest devkits now ?.
Cheers.
Wow. Thank you very much.
Well that is not easy. To get 480gflop you would need high wattage r700 card. I just dont see that in a box this size. For example the RV730 PRO is 384 gflops and is a 48watt tdp card. That card may use more power than the entire wiiu console.
The wii for example used 12watts.
No one know the exacts specs beside nintendo. We wont know until someone can buy one and take it apart. If we could find what is the wattage of the power brick, that would tell us a lot of the performance.
The only way that Microsoft that could try to derail the Wii U is to make the Surface the official controller of the next Xbox. If the rumours are true about making the next Xbox an entertainment system with many apps, the cost won't be there. It won't cost 300$.
GameplayWhore
Member
Was there any hint that there might be a symmetric multiplayer mode?
Has anybody commented yet on doing this game with less than five people? My gaming trio has three people in it*. I'm wondering if the balance would hold when it's two on one or three on one.
* four or higher person trios are hard to keep stable
Well the wattage shouldn't be a big issue atm without knowing more about the gpu and its design. Most mobile gpu's can output much more power than that on a lower tdp budget.
bgassassin
Member
Apophis. With the way Nintendo is treating this I doubt we'll know "full" specs anytime soon.
We'll just ignore the fact that he's saying something is impossible that even the early dev kit surpassed while underclocked.
We'll just ignore the fact that he's saying something is impossible that even the early dev kit surpassed while underclocked.
link?
What did they surpassed? I sure havent read anything about that here or on beyond3d. This would be shocking news and i sure would like to share it with everyone.
Glorified G
Member
Calling it the "Wuu" kinda gave it away.
WiiU's GPU isn't a R700 card.. For a start it won't be on a 55nm process and secondly its had at least 3 years of modifications since it started out based on that line of GPU's. I agree we'll know more about the hardware once we know the wattage, but not if we use such outdated GPU's as a reference point.
Manufacturing processes alone can make a massive difference. For instance the HD4850 on a 55nm process with 1000Gflops uses 114 watts. While the HD4770 (first AMD GPU on a 40nm process) with 960Gflops uses only 80w.
As far as power vs wattage goes the HD5xxx series is a better reference point since they're all on a process that WiiU may actually use (could be smaller still but at least 40nm is reasonable, 55nm is an absolute no go). With that in mind the Radeon HD5570 is a 520Gflop 40nm GPU using 40 watts.
bgassassin
Member
I talked about it in the B3D thread a long time ago.
yeah that is another issue. 55nm would be supper cheap at this point and is what the r700 is based on. If they went with 40nm, that still would be cheap and got rid of the rumor r700 gpu core for the Evergreen. It would be a lot better.
What you do think is the max tdp that could fit in the wiiu? I have been thinking some where in the 25-40w range for the gpu. Maybe a downclock 5570 would be very nice but i dont see why they would start at r700 and jump into a new design. i havent seen any rumor to match that. Plus wiiu is dx10.1 not 11 like this card.
Seems like they made changes to r700, maybe drop it to 40nm or lower and added edram. But I agree evergreen[r800] would be a lot better.
well that is some very good news. I ask about it over there because everyone been talking a lot lower than this. thanks for the info.
bgassassin
Member
Going all the way back to the first WUST, wsippel talked about the GPU being "an underclocked 4830". I heard similar much later after he said that. Based on that info the early dev kit GPU came in at approx. 576 GFLOPs. And that was while using (as pointed out by Donnie) a 55nm part. I'm of the belief the final will be 32nm which greatly help the TDP, though I also believe that case can handle more than what some others believe.
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