Nintendo needs it next year, not 3 years after the console releases like Graces. Agree that the franchise has found a home on PS3. The question is can Namco be convinced to take a pass on PS4 for the near future.
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Wii U Community Thread
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Nintendo needs it next year, not 3 years after the console releases like Graces. Agree that the franchise has found a home on PS3. The question is can Namco be convinced to take a pass on PS4 for the near future.
Oh I agree, I'm just stating that I don't think it is as cut as dried as some people think in terms of divining 3rd parties intentions. I do have a guess that Nintendo is getting very buddy buddy with Tecmo Koei and will do their best to get the musou games on Wii U immediately. Its just so hard to really make good predictions right now with the near complete lack of Japanese announced support.
nordique
Member
I do agree with this. Wii U will be the Japanese developers best bet to conquer their market; that said it will also be up to the developers & publishers take advantage of that. Its up to them to make that commitment. Some developers are catering to the west (RE6 anyone) but thats also partly because there is simply more money to be made there. It is easier to break a million units in the west than in Japan.
Where did I ever say something like that?
It'd be better for them to put their muscle behind multi-platform efforts and make sure all of those come to Wii U. Wanting exclusive good third-party support instead of multi-platform good third-party support seems maniacal in the current development environment.
nordique
Member
One Pieceirate Warriors
MGS4
Tales of Xilia
Yakuza series
RE5
Dragon's Dogma more recently
There are others, but those are the highest successes.
Please do not misunderstand me- I've made the same point in other threads. 3rd parties basically had to force feed Japan high profile 3rd party games until they created a relatively healthy atmosphere for PS3, but the bottom line is it did happen, and it largely did not on the Wii.
Overall though, the Wii was the successful console even software wise. Wii games sold more in the end (I think only one PS3 game by itself went over a million in Japan?) versus many more Wii titles. In the software charts, Wii software seems more active than PS3 software even if it is old titles and they are Nintendo published, there are still usually more Wii games there. There is an audience for Wii titles.
The problem with the Wii was, I think what Terell is trying to get at, is that had the effort been there from the start the Wii would still have some momentum today or had more during the height of PS3/Wii popularity in Japan since the software foundation would have been there from the beginning. PS3 software has its audience yes, but it is far from an ideal audience. No legs (if any), extremely front loaded, and more money has gone into investing in the engines and developing for it than anything.
The advantage is those same games you mentioned also get released in the west where they can bring a good (at least projected to be good) ROI
1- Yes, overall software was incredibly lopsided in favor of Wii.
2- 3rd party software was not. We can blame Nintendo, or 3rd parties, or both, but the fact is 3rd parties on Wii in Japan overall did not do very well.
3- I completely agree that things could have been different had 3rd parties supported the Wii initially.
4- But they didn't, and as a result by late 2009 Wii was basically a barren wasteland, while PS3 3rd party sales finally started to get healthy. All I am saying is you cannot just ignore that, and think it will not play any factor in deciding where titles go this next generation. That's it.
RE5 and MGS4-only, from that list, I'd think.
It seems logical to me that they'd look at the near-total disaster of PS3 software sales in Japan (as you said, a late "save" kept it from being a total loss) and really want to jump on board full blast with Wii U (and overall multi-platform in Japan) early to prevent the same thing happening this gen. "Logical" actions often seem to be skipped for some reason, though. *shrugs*
Late-cycle success is not something to aspire to when this much money is involved. Neither is continuing to cater to the Western market for sales at the expense of the market at home, when the previous generation showed you could have both.
I don't discount this fact, but when stacked against all other present facts about this generation, it simply doesn't outweigh the other information. They want another PS2 and Sony isn't offering any confidence that they're interested in achieving that AT ALL. That only gives them one other company to turn to in the hopes of turning the tide.
I remember a time, when the market was MUCH smaller than it is now, when 1 million in both territories was attainable. Squaresoft built their success upon that, in fact.
This is the other factor to the equation... this is not a Wii-PS3 scenario, the power gap is likely within army's reach this time, and therefore there is less risk involved. If Wii U doesn't get them what they need, they have much less to lose betting on Nintendo early on.
I don't think that Japan will jump on board to any console, it's a handheld country right now.
Anybody notice WiiU's CPU is not being promoted as a 45nm CPU anymore?
Thats all it says under tech specs.
http://e3.nintendo.com/wiiu/
So... does this mean something?
edit to add:
Remember, the OBAN rumor
Thats all it says under tech specs.
http://e3.nintendo.com/wiiu/
So... does this mean something?
edit to add:
Remember, the OBAN rumor
I think there will still be a place for consoles in Japan. But I agree that handhelds (well, the 3DS specifically), will continue to dominance. I do think the GamePad could hold a lot more appeal to the Japanese for just this reason.
bgassassin
Member
The main reason that handhelds dominate in Japan these days is actually the same reason that many expect the Wii U to do well there; a large proportion of Japanese homes only have one TV. The Wii U's ability to switch play over to the gamepad will be a big deal in Japan, and combined with the head-start could be enough to seal the generation for them there.
That's pretty interesting, and a few of us had speculated that the CPU could shift to a 32nm process due to the change in release (Nintendo seemed to originally intend a summer 2012 launch for Wii U, which would have been too early for 32nm IBM chips, but with a potential November release, 32nm would become feasible). This find probably pushes me from 'expecting 45nm' to 'don't know', but Nintendo have chosen the smallest available node going right back to the N64, so it's certainly within the realm of possibility.
On Oban, I'd still be of the opinion that what's being manufactured in Fab 8 is the Wii U's GPU, because I don't see Nintendo combining the CPU and GPU on a SoC. If the CPU has been shifted to 32nm, I'd expect that it's still being manufactured at IBM's fab in East Fishkill.
I'm almost certain that last E3 the spec sheet listed the CPU as being manufactured on a 45nm process.
Edit: I'm trying to find the original spec sheet to find out, anyone have a link to a copy of it?
bgassassin
Member
Only the PR said it was on 45nm. Nintendo's "official specs" left that out. Here's one of the older articles with a c&p job.
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a323690/wii-u-technical-specifications-released-e3-2011.html
Fair enough, I stand corrected.
It mainly depends on whether manufacturing at the 32nm node would be ready to produce sufficient quantities on a sufficient timescale at a sufficient price. While we have an idea of the timescale, we don't know what quantities IBM would be able to produce by November, and we don't know the yield ratio of IBM's 32nm process, so it's difficult to put ourselves in Nintendo's shoes when it comes to picking a node.
Also, Nintendo haven't traditionally done mid-gen die shrinks, although it's not impossible that they'd start. It's interesting to think, though, that in theory Nintendo could, in 2015 or 2016, re-design with Wii U with a 16nm SoC, no optical drive and a ~250GB SSD for downloads, and make it small enough to make the Wii look over-sized.
On top of the reasons mentioned, It's not like they had a choice in the matter. PS3 was floundering at launch, they hadn't put ANY money into Wii development.... what else were they gonna do to stay afloat?
It's been said before, but gamers go where the games go. In Japan, that meant you were all but REQUIRED to own a handheld, whether you wanted to or not.
I'd be happy with a 32nm tri core CPU with out of order processing and clocked at 3.2Ghz. It would be worse for physics but way better for AI and more unpredictable things in gaming (especially online).
While I was expecting Nintendo to use close to a 1Tflop GPU to run Samaritan like graphics, it seemss the newest rumors are pointing towards 400 gflops at worst to 768 gflops at best. I hope Nintendo goes for the 768.
While I was expecting Nintendo to use close to a 1Tflop GPU to run Samaritan like graphics, it seemss the newest rumors are pointing towards 400 gflops at worst to 768 gflops at best. I hope Nintendo goes for the 768.
Hero of Legend
Member
How long did it take for Famitsu to get the ball rolling with 3DS announcements? I remember SSF4 was one of the first games they did an article on, that was around September 2010 right?
Around Tokyo Game Show, yes, after it was announced initially at E3.
I think we will get announcements ahead of TGS with first footage/pics in September.
Hero of Legend
Member
What was the Fall Conference like last year (where MH3G and MH4 were announced)? Was that via Nintendo Direct? It was the first or something wasn't it?
anchorman128
Member
I think 500-800 is our range IMO, but GFLOPS aren't the best thing to use to compare power.
As for the CPU, I would say that sounds right other than the new rumors we have been hearing. If its 32NM I think it will be the triple core 1.5-1.8 GHz(or so) variant of IMB's Power CPU's with one master or OS core because of the large L2 cache.
Only thing I really wish is that Nintendo would have bit the bullet on was 2GB of ram
Hero of Legend
Member
I want to go back on comment about Pikmin 3's water reflections' argument.
I think they're there, we just can't see from the close up/ground level angle, where as in the title screen, the camera is much higher, so the reflections are far more apparent. Isn't it like that in real life where the closer you are the less reflections you see especially if you're looking at it from a more flat angle if you get what I mean?
I think they're there, we just can't see from the close up/ground level angle, where as in the title screen, the camera is much higher, so the reflections are far more apparent. Isn't it like that in real life where the closer you are the less reflections you see especially if you're looking at it from a more flat angle if you get what I mean?
If just all that money would have been invested making actually good games...
About the Tales game speculation, don't you think the series are perfect for a Pokemon crossover like Pokemon x Nobunaga? :E
A bit late, as I've been on the road all weekend long, but.. I'll be plainly blunt after reading what I've read.
If third parties decide to skip this time around, so be it. I for one won't be financially rewarding them for such behaviour, and I'll shed no tears for whatever fate befalls them.
And for every person who complains about third-party support in one breath and then goes on in the following breath to tell of how they're buying their desired-on-Nintendo-console Title X for one of The Other Consoles, I'll shake my head in exasperation.
Third parties learn nothing when we keep giving them our money in those situations. It's like complaining about feces stains on the bedsheets and then giving the dog a treat and a pat on the head after he shits in the bed. In-Credible.
If third parties decide to skip this time around, so be it. I for one won't be financially rewarding them for such behaviour, and I'll shed no tears for whatever fate befalls them.
And for every person who complains about third-party support in one breath and then goes on in the following breath to tell of how they're buying their desired-on-Nintendo-console Title X for one of The Other Consoles, I'll shake my head in exasperation.
Third parties learn nothing when we keep giving them our money in those situations. It's like complaining about feces stains on the bedsheets and then giving the dog a treat and a pat on the head after he shits in the bed. In-Credible.
Glorified G
Member
So you would really prevent yourself from enjoying a title from a third party out of spite because it didn't appear on a Nintendo console?
Dude, it's fucking videogames. The shits not that serious.
That's the fun, trite line from the MC threads, but I think a big reason for the overall console decline this generation in Japan has way more to do with not having any really good options to buy (Wii lacked core third-party support, but had mega-sellers from Nintendo; PS3 was way too expensive, had one mega-seller to push consoles, but had the major third-party core support) as opposed to handheld gaming squeezing out console gaming. I think a console selling close to 20m in Japan again is very doable if it has Nintendo's mega-sellers and the main thrust of core third-party support.
Edit:
Ah, good reasons already covered.
I wonder if Japanese third parties will reward the Wii U with games ala PS3. Wii won this gen, so it makes sense that they'd flock to its successor, no?
How surreal would it be if Wii U was to go to console for Japanese third party games? Surely Japanese game devs are afraid of the jump that awaits them with the PS4/720. 360/PS3s power gave them a nice bite in the ass this gen.
How surreal would it be if Wii U was to go to console for Japanese third party games? Surely Japanese game devs are afraid of the jump that awaits them with the PS4/720. 360/PS3s power gave them a nice bite in the ass this gen.
he can buy used games
assuming that is possible in the next gen...
Don't be too sad when that's gone lol.
It would make sense, but.... Lol. "demographics" pigeonhole. The biggest Japanese developers are chasing the western dollar anyway, though. Hence double down on this gen's strategy. Lower budget efforts go to handheld.
To complain about a behaviour and then essentially reward such behaviour? I see it as a hypocritical, illogical move, plain and simple. Just being brutally honest. I'm constantly astounded that people don't see this, but I admit to being an oddball.
If I miss some titles, so be it; with my schedule, there are some years where I can't keep-up with the meagre release schedules. And with my love of replaying older games, I'm not hurting one bit in the slower years.
And I'm not having a heart attack over it.. like you said - it isn't that serious.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Luckily the industry doesn't revolve around Nintendo, so people can continue to buy the games they want on the platforms their available, and enjoy them regardless.
I don't see anybody boycotting Nintendo for making dumb hardware decisions that cost them third party ports, like the Wii.
You didn't see people bypass the Wii this generation due to its power (that cost third-party support)? You misspoke, right?
I'm more expressing exasperation at what I see as hypocritical behaviour. And I don't deny that Nintendo has made some incredibly dumb, dumb, dumb... {*add a few more "dumbs" here*} ... moves.
Took the words outta my mouth on that part, hehe.. imagine what would've been had Nintendo chosen differently on Wii hardware.. but you won't find me constantly harping on the issue before giving them my money.You didn't see people bypass the Wii this generation due to its power (that cost third-party support)? You misspoke, right?
Hero of Legend
Member
People deserve to have passion over anything they'd like and should be allowed to feel how they choose. At least he's not hurting anyone. I myself have been bitter over certain decisions by some 3rd-party companies to the point where certain popularity points are docked off at least until I see that they're making an honest effort if you know what I mean, I'm allowed to be.
I'll say my main case: Tales of Graces, Wii-exclusive, then came out on PS3 with oodles of extra content, only the PS3 version came out in NA and EU.
Yeah, not gonna do wonders to Wii-focused fans...
Now to me, this is easily redeemed if; Graces gets ported to Wii U and gets localized, or, there's a just as good if not better Wii U exclusive Tales game, this hurts even more since DOTNW (which I really liked!) had nowhere near the production values, even Namco confirmed that it was a spin-off before becoming an actual sequel later on.
I was so looking forward to Graces, and with no PS3 to even consider getting it on, well, sad for me.
I don't usually hold grudges, as Namco has great stuff coming up for Wii U (Tekken, Tanks, and SMASH 4!!!), but the Tales aspect did really sting.
They had great stuff on Wii as well, like Klonoa!
Honestly, I would've been happy with the barebones version on Wii as long as they fixed all the bugs. I'd just catch the rest on YouTube, simple.
I'll say my main case: Tales of Graces, Wii-exclusive, then came out on PS3 with oodles of extra content, only the PS3 version came out in NA and EU.
Yeah, not gonna do wonders to Wii-focused fans...
Now to me, this is easily redeemed if; Graces gets ported to Wii U and gets localized, or, there's a just as good if not better Wii U exclusive Tales game, this hurts even more since DOTNW (which I really liked!) had nowhere near the production values, even Namco confirmed that it was a spin-off before becoming an actual sequel later on.
I was so looking forward to Graces, and with no PS3 to even consider getting it on, well, sad for me.
I don't usually hold grudges, as Namco has great stuff coming up for Wii U (Tekken, Tanks, and SMASH 4!!!), but the Tales aspect did really sting.
They had great stuff on Wii as well, like Klonoa!
Honestly, I would've been happy with the barebones version on Wii as long as they fixed all the bugs. I'd just catch the rest on YouTube, simple.
That line of thinking works more correctly on wii than it does for wii u
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
You didn't see people bypass the Wii this generation due to its power (that cost third-party support)? You misspoke, right?
They did, and they were right to. Point is the onus isn't just on third parties to deliver the goods. Nintendo is often their own worst enemy when it comes to these things.
Right, and the jury is out on the Wii U until it's released and working alongside the rest of next generation, so we can then get a better idea of where it fits.
Ah but the wait and see approach is kinda like a chicken and egg situation. You do make the bed that you sleep in. As you may already know, some publishers have already written their stories for the console
Yeah, charlequin and I had some discussions on this in the MC threads mid-generation. Came to see that while the final decision to bring third-party games to Wii or not was up to third-parties, Nintendo should've done a whole lot more to convince them it was worth the risks. Same applies to Wii U, and Nintendo can't afford to sit around and wait for publishers to come to them this time around. And they seem to be doing that for some publishers (e.g. Tecmo-Koei for publishing NG3, Ubisoft, Warner Bros) but others seem to be very flippant toward Wii U still (e.g. Rockstar part of Take-Two, EA). Didn't list Activision, as I expect them to port almost everything they can to Wii U after the support they kept giving to Wii through the generation. (Hopefully Nintendo's not taking Activision support for granted, though.)
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Nintendo's in kind of a shitty position right now, in terms of ports. The Wii U currently has no market share
. And, upon release, will take a long time to catch up to 360/PS3/PC market share. New console versus end of generation consoles.Though it might seem logical to port games to the Wii U, it's time and money, and majority of games currently in development were likely pitched, green lit, financed and managed without intentions to build a Wii U version (for many reasons). To change this policy now would be to detract staff from the main project, or farm the port out to a second time. Again, time and money.
Plus there's complications with the hardware. On a technical level, if the CPU/GPGPU reports are true then a fair bit of tinkering would be required to make sure games are running stable and bug free. On a design level, most pubs would probably feel the need to adopt some kind of GamePad usage, which requires conceptual work, approval, and then additional game development.
And all this time and money, including devkit costs, spent on a system that is not going to push anywhere near as many copies of the game as the other builds will.
There's advantages to porting games to the Wii U, but there's also risks, and it's a new expense introduced very late into an already organised development schedule. What I'd be more concerned about is next generation ports, and whether or not the Wii U will do much good there. I figure it wont, at least from the west, but *shrug*.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Maybe instead of punishing jerky third party publishers & developers we should reward supportive companies like Ubisoft by letting them know of our appreciation... with thank you letters. And hugs.
John Harker has stated that Nintendo will match marketing dollars with any third party game on their system. They are also publishing some titles for them to appear on the system. However, full out money hats to every third party to secure every major game sounds ludicrous. A legitimate multi platform strategy from any publisher is just that. If I were running a publisher I would port my content to any device that can run the executable files and had an at least semi competent control scheme. Yes it requires manpower but you do make the bed you sleep in. Creating a new audience or nurturing an existing one can lead to much better future ROI
Just at launch, though. From what I saw him write, it didn't extend beyond that period.
Hero of Legend
Member
Was he just talking about Ninja Gaiden 3 (which they're publishing), or Tekken, AssCreed, and Darksiders which ware Wii U versions not published by Nintendo and whatnot, or perhaps other unannounced games?
No one knows what's going on behind closed doors. I would imagine that Nintendo is talking to pretty much everyone, but I don't know why people keep thinking that they can simply chat with them a couple of times and get 3rd parties to release a game. There can be all kinds of problems with discussion going on behind closed doors and from what I've heard Nintendo has been trying to get everyone to jump on. But they can't force companies to do it, and even some 3rd parties simply feel that their philosophy is simply different from Nintendo so they don't want to commit. There's not much Nintendo (or anyone for that matter) can do about it. It's going to be a slow process in any case. Seems like a lot of companies are diggin' in like they were when the PS2 was released. There were people talking about how awesome it was going to be before we even knew anything concrete about it. This seems to be the same thing that's going on with the next Playstation and Xbox. Lots of assuming that they will be what they were this generation and so they're gearing up for that.
In my opinion, it's gonna take everyone to get things to change on the Nintendo front. Not just Nintendo.
Eh. I prefer giving them money when they do something good. But if the U somehow sells well (ha!)(on second thought.. who knows?) and we end-up with another "Closed Studios Since 20XX" megathread, what then?
You think they'd learn. Early-on, core titles did indeed sell decently on the Wii, showing that there was indeed an audience willing to buy such games. And yet, devs sent out test games in response and quickly instilled a healthy level of distrust among the console's owners..
I can agree with that. Fans, third parties, Nintendo - everyone has to be in on this effort. I can't have total trust in any of those three entities. Which may be why I'm pessimistic, haha..
Otherwise, I still think it'll take a fundamental, monumental change in the landscape of the industry for Nintendo to ever have a glimmer of a chance at decent third-party support once again.
Dreamwriter
Member
...unless the system release is in September...
Unfortunately, third party executives don't learn by NOT rewarding them either. If few people buy their game on the console its available on, they tend to assume "Oh, people don't like that kind of game anymore, we won't try again on any system at all". They are like an unpunishable dog - they *only* learn via rewards. There's no real way to tell the publisher "I would have bought that had you released it on system X".
Having said that, there are so many great games coming out at all times on all systems, that few people have the time/money to play them all. So between my Wii-U and my PC, it won't matter if I can't play The Last Guardian or any next-gen XBox/PS4 system-exclusive, because while I'll yearn for those games, I'll always have something else that can take up my time. I made that decision this generation after I bought all 3 consoles...and had to pass so many awesome games by that it was painful. The only series I'll buy a console for if need-be is my favorite series, the Ys games by Falcom.
I've pondered that as well. It'd take an unrealistic number of people badgering them, letting them know that we would've bought their game, combined with a concurrent decline in sales figures.. for them to truly get the message and take it seriously. A deliberate effort on the part of the fans for this part of the "everyone-needs-to-do-their-part" equation to be satisfied would be required. It all only serves to add more to my pessimism.
Something's gotta change eventually, either in a good direction.. or a bad direction. Either way, it'll be interesting to observe.
And having only the Nintendo system is oddly satisfying in the respect that you bring-up.. I usually feel like I'm not missing very much on that platform's library since the games/time/money ratio works-out perfectly for my situation. I look back at the end of each generation and usually end-up saying, "Yup. I caught 'em all. Good show, old bean!"
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