Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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Bullza2o said:
Was there no Wii tech demo? I don't remember.
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The thing we need to look at to see what the Wii was capable of was looking back at 5 years worth of GameCube games, really. I remember when it was revealed nobody really wanted to admit that, but that's about what it amounts to.
 
brochiller said:
The thing we need to look at to see what the Wii was capable of was looking back at 5 years worth of GameCube games, really. I remember when it was revealed nobody really wanted to admit that, but that's about what it amounts to.
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That's because you're only talking about graphics. "I suppose I could give you a lis of our technical specs, I believe you'd like that but I won't for a simple reason: They really don't matter. The time when horsepower alone made an important difference IS OVER" Iwata @ E3 2004
 
Azelover said:
That's because you're only talking about graphics. "I suppose I could give you a lis of our technical specs, I believe you'd like that but I won't for a simple reason: They really don't matter. The time when horsepower alone made an important difference IS OVER" Iwata @ E3 2004
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Tell that to the people over in the 720 rumor thread.
 
Coolwhip said:
Indeed. Only graphics fanatics will demand more really. That looks stunning to me visually.
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I agree. I think once the hardware is decently capable, it becomes less about polygons, etc, and more about visual/art direction. Just look at a game like Wind Waker in HD. That sort of style is timeless. It doesn't even have to be cartoon-ey, either.
 
bgassassin said:
Well like I said I before I would eliminate there being L3 cache altogether. That just makes the die bigger. From there when looking at the asymmetric split, that's why I believe the CPU would also use eDRAM because with the "master core" having 1.5+MB on it's own I think that would make the die too big for what Nintendo is targeting since like you said the eDRAM has a much better density. But even then I would guess the final amount of L2 cache would be determined by how big Nintendo is comfortable with the die size being. The could be trying to make the CPU as small as possible due to the GPU and its TDP.
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It's not really worth thinking about it in terms of "L3 cache makes the die bigger", as much as "cache makes the die bigger". Cache levels just define the hierarchy of caches within one chip, and there's nothing intrinsically different between L2 and L3 cache other than how the chip designer defines them.

There's definitely going to be some eDRAM cache on the Wii U's CPU, and it will very likely be the main cache, whether it's considered L2 or L3. What I was wondering about is whether they would include any SRAM between the eDRAM cache and each core, which would effectively become L2 and turn the eDRAM into L3. This wouldn't have to be much (128kB per core would be plenty) but it would create a low-latency buffer between the core and the higher latency eDRAM cache.

IBM could put a 128kB/128kB/256kB SRAM L2 cache and a 6MB eDRAM L3 cache on the CPU, and the entire cache area would still be only a little over half that of the original Xenon. The eDRAM also has a power consumption of about 3.5 times less that of SRAM, so power/heat issues, while non-trivial, wouldn't be something to worry about in comparison to the cores themselves.
 
Omega.Blaze said:
The only thing I know is that when I look at this:

tumblr_lvwtnrNmjM1qcfgllo1_500.gif


I drool. We know that's at least the minimum we can expect from the WiiU, so if it turns to be capable of doing stuff even better looking like that, it's just a bonus.
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Do you have the exact video you made this from? That must be the best-quality footage I've seen of this.
 
Thraktor said:
It's not really worth thinking about it in terms of "L3 cache makes the die bigger", as much as "cache makes the die bigger". Cache levels just define the hierarchy of caches within one chip, and there's nothing intrinsically different between L2 and L3 cache other than how the chip designer defines them.

There's definitely going to be some eDRAM cache on the Wii U's CPU, and it will very likely be the main cache, whether it's considered L2 or L3. What I was wondering about is whether they would include any SRAM between the eDRAM cache and the core, which would effectively become L2 and turn the eDRAM into L3. This wouldn't have to be much (128kB per core would be plenty) but it would create a low-latency buffer between the core and the higher latency eDRAM cache.

IBM could put a 128kB/128kB/256kB SRAM L2 cache and a 6MB eDRAM L3 cache on the CPU, and the entire cache area would still be only a little over half that of the original Xenon. The eDRAM also has a power consumption of about 3.5 times less that of SRAM, so power/heat issues, while non-trivial, wouldn't be something to worry about in comparison to the cores themselves.
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I was thinking in the latter view. In my view/hypothesis, there won't be any SRAM used as cache. The L2 cache would consist only of IBM's eDRAM to keep the die size down as much as possible since one core will have decent amount of that cache.

And again Nintendo hasn't talked at all about including L3 cache. There's really no reason to pose scenarios including it since it's likely that the CPU can access the 32MB of eDRAM on the graphics LSI if necessary.

AlStrong said:
Well, for a multicore design, you probably want a level of cache which all the CPU cores can share (before hitting main memory)...
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I guess I just answered this at the end of the other response. But at the same time they'll each have their own L2 cache.
 
Azelover said:
That's because you're only talking about graphics. "I suppose I could give you a lis of our technical specs, I believe you'd like that but I won't for a simple reason: They really don't matter. The time when horsepower alone made an important difference IS OVER" Iwata @ E3 2004
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Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
 
specialguy said:
Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
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Because the gaf community doesn't represent the market.
 
specialguy said:
Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
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I think people here are pretty satisfied with the expected power of Wii U. So what's your point? Is this carryover from the other thread?
 
specialguy said:
Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
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No.
The problem with the Wii's decline is a lack of software.
Which, yes, was because of a lack of power preventing the ease of portability with current engines.
However, had the software been there, no one would have cared about the power outside of forum dwellers.
 
Omega.Blaze said:
The only thing I know is that when I look at this:

tumblr_lvwtnrNmjM1qcfgllo1_500.gif


I drool. We know that's at least the minimum we can expect from the WiiU, so if it turns to be capable of doing stuff even better looking like that, it's just a bonus.
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Good God, this is the first time I've ever seen the night version in this clarity. The lighting is so fucking good.
 
bgassassin said:
I think people here are pretty satisfied with the expected power of Wii U. So what's your point? Is this carryover from the other thread?
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What is the other thread ? Yay omg next xbox is weak piece of shit! Bump!

Then there's the other "yay Ps4 gonna be way more powerful than Xbox!" one.

they're all about power too, just like this one.

That's all we care about.

I've known this for years, the frustrating thing is how much people OBVIOUSLY know it's true yet refuse to admit it in the next breath.
 
specialguy said:
Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
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Horsepower alone. Considering DS and Wii are the #1 and #2 platforms this generation, having sold 250 million units combined, I'd say his theory panned out.

Of course the coming generations will have more horsepower. But these days the line that you can draw in the sand and say "thus ends this generation, and after is the next." is getting pretty nebulous. And the days when horsepower ALONE changed the way we play games is also going to be over if it is not over already.
 
specialguy said:
Doesn't The Wii's current malaise prove him wrong?

It's time we admit gamers literally only care about power, it's all we ever talk about in any of these next gen threads. ever. It's what every KZ2 gif thread was built on, and those were the largest threads in GAf history.

All this thread is is people hoping beyond believe that Wii U is powerful. That's it. That's all it is. How can anboody say power doesn''t matter?
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He said "horsepower ALONE". Looking at Move and Kinect, looking at an underpowered Wii with 30 million sales over the competition, that seems to be true. Ideally though, you would have horsepower AS WELL. That said, he was wrong by claiming specs didn't matter though.
 
specialguy said:
What is the other thread ? Yay omg next xbox is weak piece of shit! Bump!

Then there's the other "yay Ps4 gonna be way more powerful than Xbox!" one.

they're all about power too, just like this one.

That's all we care about.
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The first one yes. Your post seemed to have some frustration in it akin to some of your posts in that thread. And like I said people here seem to be very content with the power Wii U will most likely offer, so what's the point again of your post? It comes off as nothing more than a "Captain Obvious" type of post.
 
LeleSocho said:
I laugh so hard at people believing this... i can't wait to see their reaction when we will se the actual game
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You laugh at people believing what, exactly?
That Nintendo will outpace a sloppy tech demo running on alpha hardware?
If they didn't, then everyone is in trouble.
 
Ryoku said:
From a hardware standpoint, PS3 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox 360. By how much, I'm not sure about myself. I'd have to Google that, but I'm far too lazy for that right now.
In practice, however, the 360 has been able to push out pretty nice looking games itself, such as Gears of War. I still say that the PS3 is able to push out slightly nicer looking games, but that is all subjective, honestly, so I won't bother bringing that argument up.

Also, portability is not entirely indicative of power. Final Fantasy XIII looked worse and ran worse on the Xbox 360 than it did on the PS3. The 360 was just, apparently, a hell of a lot easier to work with.
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Where is your real world empirical evidence based on real software? Not some theoretical peak numbers posted by random dudes on an internet forum.

Final Fantasy is just a single game out of several major multi platform. Statistically its an anomaly and far outweighed by the volume of games than run better overall on the 360.
 
I hate the IGN rumor because it says WiiU is at 5x and I want it to be true but its IGN so... :(

I am still happy that Nintendo is entering HD hope we get a summer launch
 
Smiles and Cries said:
what the hell has Mistwalker been working on if the dude behind it is in Paris pimping THE LAST STORY Wii?

can we see THE LAST STORY 2 WiiU?
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I've said this 100 times already but I'm PRAYING that Nintendo plans on maintaining their relationship with Sakaguchi. Having him and monolith bringing the RPGs is all I require.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
I've said this 100 times already but I'm PRAYING that Nintendo plans on maintaining their relationship with Sakaguchi. Having him and monolith bringing the RPGs is all I require.
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I'm hoping he is on board with the WiiU though it may take a few years until we see a game.

I think Nintendo did a great Job with 3 new RPG IPs for the Wii that they could bank on for WiiU if they play their cards right.
 
Xenoblade has much more potential to be made into a franchise than Last Story to be honest. It was really well received and a good sequel would most likely to do better. The Last Story on the other hand was a relative bomb.
 
Alrus said:
Xenoblade has much more potential to be made into a franchise than Last Story to be honest. It was really well received and a good sequel would most likely to do better. The Last Story on the other hand was a relative bomb.
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New game set on a giant horse fighting a giant lion.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I'm hoping he is on board with the WiiU though it may take a few years until we see a game.

I think Nintendo did a great Job with 3 new RPG IPs for the Wii that they could bank on for WiiU if they play their cards right.
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monolith making games + sakaguchi making a game or two + atlus releasing persona 6 on wiiU + from software releasing the next ____ souls game for all consoles = me a happy camper RPG wise, at least from japanese developers.
 
LeleSocho said:
I laugh so hard at people believing this... i can't wait to see their reaction when we will se the actual game
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AceBandage said:
You laugh at people believing what, exactly?
That Nintendo will outpace a sloppy tech demo running on alpha hardware?
If they didn't, then everyone is in trouble.
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I'm with Lele on this I think. Sure it was alpha hardware, but it looked sooo damned good. They got an outside team to do it, who I can imagine worked their arses off to make it look as good as possible. What could be added to that demo that wasn't there already? Smoother in the few times it dropped frames, and maybe full 1080, but I doubt it will look as different as the past generation comparison pictures.

Edit: To add, I'll be very happy if it's basically the same as the E3 demo, just more solid.
 
AzaK said:
I'm with Lele on this I think. Sure it was alpha hardware, but it looked sooo damned good. They got an outside team to do it, who I can imagine worked their arses off to make it look as good as possible. What could be added to that demo that wasn't there already? Smoother in the few times it dropped frames, and maybe full 1080, but I doubt it will look as different as the past generation comparison pictures.

Edit: To add, I'll be very happy if it's basically the same as the E3 demo, just more solid.
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No?
It was a small team in EAD that made it.
 
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