Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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BY2K said:
Indeed.

Either Nintendo think they really screwed up the Wii U's first showing and think they need to have everything nice and ready before showing it in it's current form, or they are just very, very, very secretive.

They are preparing the bombs. Big ones.
Click to expand...

It's the latter.
Nintendo just likes to play everything close to the chest.
 
Nerfgun said:
Do any of you think there's any chance left that they'll redesign the console case?
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I'd say it's very very likely. When asked about the Wii U itself, Reggie was very dismissive and I believe was quoted as saying, "It's just a box." My guess is that he wasn't being entirely sincere, but wanted to downplay the console itself because he knew that it wasn't in final stages. When you couple that with how early in the game the Wii U seemed to be last year (rather similar to the Wii, err... Revolution at E3 2005) I wouldn't be surprised to see it looking quite different the next time it's seen.
 
Pimpbaa said:
Why do they show different color units? They will never give us that. Except maybe a black one a few years later.
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Well if the 3DS is any indication, color changes may become more common. iirc, the Wii didn't get too many color changes for a long time because there was already fantastic demand for the white model.
 
Fourth Storm said:
Would make sense of alot of things. Like why they were using an RV770LE in dev kits (it has about the proposed bandwidth despite the stock using GDDR3) and RAM described as "slow" (it's technically the same speed as 360's but at higher bandwidth). And I swear I heard a rumor that dev kits were using "plain old" ddr3 very early on last year.

If this is completely off, I'll stand corrected. My only source is Wiki (it's a damn Sat. night :p).



Clock that DDR3 at 700 Mhz that's 44.8 GB/s. 2x the 360 and right in line w/ the rest of the proposed specs. After all, it wouldn't make sense to bottleneck the system in memory bandwidth at only 1x the 360 while everything else is 2x, 4x, etc. They know they need at least 2x the bandwidth to stream to two screens at once.
Click to expand...

You might either be thinking of a post I made back around the time the first thread made or wsippel's posts hypothesizing the usage of DDR3.

For the second half you might be thinking of data transfer rate instead of memory clock. Looks like a long time ago I used the wrong formula, but if I understand that one correctly the BW would be 34GB/s on a 128-bit bus if using the max clocked memory (266.67).

At 900Mhz and a 96-bit bus GDDR5 would be 43.2GB/s. That's effectively twice the BW of of the 360 and ~1.7x the PS3's XDR.
 
GTAclaude said:
Nintendo Revolution

"Prepare to be revolted"

I kid
Click to expand...

cv0002.jpg
 
How does the black Wii sell compared to the white one? I can only assume what makes sense. The black one probably outsells the white one by 1000:1. Which is why the fact that the Wii U is white aggravates me to no end.

3rd world problems, I know.
 
IsntChrisL said:
How does the black Wii sell compared to the white one? I can only assume what makes sense. The black one probably outsells the white one by 1000:1. Which is why the fact that the Wii U is white aggravates me to no end.

3rd world problems, I know.
Click to expand...

I don't think we could find out that easily, and why would you assume such?
 
IdeaMan said:
+ something very important that i've hinted quite clumsily and heavily in my posts. Some members like Azak were spot-on on that.
sorry, i have a teasing fever, i can't resist to the temptation :(
Click to expand...
I assume you're talking about the perceived power as opposed to RAM cause you seem to be knocking that one back.

Fourth Storm said:
If it was 1.5 GB GDDR3 then it would have to be (or 196-bit, but that's really pushing it). That bus would end up potentially slower than the 360's though, and wouldn't make any sense if they were increasing everything else by 2x-5x. I'm thinking they crank up the RAM speed, throw in the even 2 GB, and call it a day. As the specs narrow down, balance must be kept in mind. My current breakdown would be this:

CPU: 3.0 Ghz
GPU:600 Mhz
RAM: 900 Mhz (x2 for GDDR3 so effectively 1800 Mhz)
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's been mentioned why in the billions of posts in these two threads, but is 96bit bus if they went GDDR3 because each chip in that is 32bits or something? Why is 192but so hard?

guek said:
1330208781073.gif

Gaming from my bed is going to be so boss
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Almost as boss as Bruce Springsteen.

-Pyromaniac- said:
yeah there is no point of it that I can think of, once they get all the streaming tech done it becomes useless.
Click to expand...

I can think of one, and one that I'd quite like. Plug it into my TV in the bedroom and use the sensor bar on it to use it like a Wii with a remote etc from bed. It could also be your portable (Within your house) media player.

-Pyromaniac- said:
nope, just posting pics people might have missed
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Thanks, I did miss em. Too bad most were gone before I saw it.

-Pyromaniac- said:
Not sure if you guys seen these pics, but fun facts about the WiiU controller:
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Umm I assume 24% wider than Wii means the actual Wii U console right?
 
I am (or was) a little worried about the size of the buttons.
I have big thumbs, so I was watching the Nintendo demostration video...
wiiubuttons.jpg

...and comparing the buttons with the girls' thumbs (assuming she has a standard size hand) I think they have a decent size. They don't look like the ones from the 3DS but still far from my precious wiimote (A) button

I really hope they end up being something similar to the A and B button from the NES controller or at least the B button from the GC controller =/
I felt really comfortable with the size of these two
 
AzaK said:
I'm sure it's been mentioned why in the billions of posts in these two threads, but is 96bit bus if they went GDDR3 because each chip in that is 32bits or something? Why is 192but so hard?
Click to expand...

Basically, each DRAM chip has a certain interface width. That can be either 16-bit or 32-bit, but nominally it's 32-bit. These chips are hooked up directly to the memory I/O controller on the GPU or CPU (console situation).

The 16-bit mode just allows one to use double the memory chips in the event that you want more memory, but the DRAM density isn't high enough. It was not uncommon for GPUs to have 16x 1Gbit GDDR5 in order to offer 2GB, but that's before the 2Gbit chips started showing up. Even then, 2Gbit is only starting to appear en masse. Anyways, that's just an example. Same thing happened for earlier generations.

So with that in mind, you have possibilities for memory configuration. For a console chip, the company is going to be mindful of the die size as well as a roadmap for future die reductions. The memory controller I/O width on the GPU or CPU is going to place a minimum die size restriction because that's one of those things that just doesn't shrink with process node.

You might think you can get away with a migration to a smaller bus whilst using higher speed memory in the future, but that's just added risk and QA for developers. Far simpler to keep everything as identical as possible when doing future redesigns.

Anyways, so you have a fixed memory bus width taking up a huge chunk of the chip perimeter, and also keep in mind they are likely going to have another huge chunk for the eDRAM interface.

Clearly, you don't want to have a huge perimeter necessitating a large chip throughout the lifetime of the console. That has a number of implications for cost/yield/power consumption (because you'd not be able to use a newer process node).

--------------

Where the WiiU is concerned, 128-bit is a good starting point, but that means either 4 or 8 DRAM chips. Space is clearly very limited on the motherboard.

People hoping for GDDR5 will be limited to using 2Gbit density since nothing higher is on the roadmap.

DDR3 is far cheaper and much lower power consuming FWIW, plus there are 4Gbit densities available at modest clocks. Four chips would be very good for conserving motherboard space since you can put two on each side.

Electrical signalling is a bit of a concern for higher clocks when you're packing the wires very tightly, so... that's just another design concern.

Anyways, to achieve 1.5GB of RAM you have two choices, the first of which is the most obvious: Add two more 2Gbit DRAMs to the above for 6 chips total. The 16/32-bit modes is where the 96-bit/192-bit theories come from. If you use 4Gbit DDR3, then you only need 3 chips, so that's... 96-bit.

The second choice isn't so obvious because you almost never hear about such a configuration, which is to use a mix of DRAM densities. Consider that for 1.5GB of RAM, you really need 12Gbit worth of DRAMs. This can be done with 4 chips (128-bit) - 2x4Gbit + 2x 2Gbit. To my knowledge only one PC SKU has ever done such a mix of chips (GTX 550, 192-bit, 1GB SKU).


--------------

PC memory modules are a different situation with memory addressing, allowing you to hook up to 16 DRAMs on a DIMM to a 64-bit channel to the CPU. I digress.
 
Why hasn't the French website that published the initial story on the Wii u specs and controller been able to uncover any other juicy bits. It seems like nintendo went into ninja meltdown over the last leak.
 
burst said:
Why hasn't the French website that published the initial story on the Wii u specs and controller been able to uncover any other juicy bits. It seems like nintendo went into ninja meltdown over the last leak.
Click to expand...

01.net's been slacking.

They need to speak to their industry sources already
coughubisoftcough
 
burst said:
Why hasn't the French website that published the initial story on the Wii u specs and controller been able to uncover any other juicy bits. It seems like nintendo went into ninja meltdown over the last leak.
Click to expand...

01net's info was coming from Ubi. Stands to reason that Nintendo put the clamps on them a while ago.
 
I don't know if this has been posted or if it's old or new but the guys from Nicalis (Cave Story for 3DS) are working right now on a small surprise for the 3DS scheduled for this summer (probably for the eShop) but they are also working on a game for 3DS and Wii U...
too bad he can't say more tho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvB8bAgyvCA

cross-platform game coming?

forward to 3:19 for the news =P
 
BY2K said:
Indeed.

Either Nintendo think they really screwed up the Wii U's first showing and think they need to have everything nice and ready before showing it in it's current form, or they are just very, very, very secretive.

They are preparing the bombs. Big ones.

The Ninjas got them by the balls, man!
Click to expand...

WpwLu.gif
 
AlStrong said:
Basically, each DRAM chip has a certain interface width. That can be either 16-bit or 32-bit, but nominally it's 32-bit. These chips are hooked up directly to the memory I/O controller on the GPU or CPU (console situation).

The 16-bit mode just allows one to use double the memory chips in the event that you want more memory, but the DRAM density isn't high enough. It was not uncommon for GPUs to have 16x 1Gbit GDDR5 in order to offer 2GB, but that's before the 2Gbit chips started showing up. Even then, 2Gbit is only starting to appear en masse. Anyways, that's just an example. Same thing happened for earlier generations.

So with that in mind, you have possibilities for memory configuration. For a console chip, the company is going to be mindful of the die size as well as a roadmap for future die reductions. The memory controller I/O width on the GPU or CPU is going to place a minimum die size restriction because that's one of those things that just doesn't shrink with process node.

You might think you can get away with a migration to a smaller bus whilst using higher speed memory in the future, but that's just added risk and QA for developers. Far simpler to keep everything as identical as possible when doing future redesigns.

Anyways, so you have a fixed memory bus width taking up a huge chunk of the chip perimeter, and also keep in mind they are likely going to have another huge chunk for the eDRAM interface.

Clearly, you don't want to have a huge perimeter necessitating a large chip throughout the lifetime of the console. That has a number of implications for cost/yield/power consumption (because you'd not be able to use a newer process node).

--------------

Where the WiiU is concerned, 128-bit is a good starting point, but that means either 4 or 8 DRAM chips. Space is clearly very limited on the motherboard.

People hoping for GDDR5 will be limited to using 2Gbit density since nothing higher is on the roadmap.

DDR3 is far cheaper and much lower power consuming FWIW, plus there are 4Gbit densities available at modest clocks. Four chips would be very good for conserving motherboard space since you can put two on each side.

Electrical signalling is a bit of a concern for higher clocks when you're packing the wires very tightly, so... that's just another design concern.

Anyways, to achieve 1.5GB of RAM you have two choices, the first of which is the most obvious: Add two more 2Gbit DRAMs to the above for 6 chips total. The 16/32-bit modes is where the 96-bit/192-bit theories come from. If you use 4Gbit DDR3, then you only need 3 chips, so that's... 96-bit.

The second choice isn't so obvious because you almost never hear about such a configuration, which is to use a mix of DRAM densities. Consider that for 1.5GB of RAM, you really need 12Gbit worth of DRAMs. This can be done with 4 chips (128-bit) - 2x4Gbit + 2x 2Gbit. To my knowledge only one PC SKU has ever done such a mix of chips (GTX 550, 192-bit, 1GB SKU).


--------------

PC memory modules are a different situation with memory addressing, allowing you to hook up to 16 DRAMs on a DIMM to a 64-bit channel to the CPU. I digress.
Click to expand...

Thanks Al, that cleared it up muchly.
 
How come Nintendo threads always have the best gifs? Been going through a bunch of pages lately, and I'm always surprised by the gis of pics :p
 
Tenck said:
How come Nintendo threads always have the best gifs? Been going through a bunch of pages lately, and I'm always surprised by the gis of pics :p
Click to expand...

When there is a lack of news, you gotta keep that mojo running somehow...as we clearly saw a few pages back...
 
AlStrong said:
Where the WiiU is concerned, 128-bit is a good starting point, but that means either 4 or 8 DRAM chips. Space is clearly very limited on the motherboard.

People hoping for GDDR5 will be limited to using 2Gbit density since nothing higher is on the roadmap.

DDR3 is far cheaper and much lower power consuming FWIW, plus there are 4Gbit densities available at modest clocks. Four chips would be very good for conserving motherboard space since you can put two on each side.
Click to expand...


The Wii itself used the same memory as the 360: GDDR3.
Why would they forego GDDR5? What would AMD push for?
 
I really hope that they will redesign the console itself. Yeah, Reggie said "It's just a box", but then again all consoles are boxes and some look prettier than the others.
The Wii U looks like a stretched Wii to me. It isn't sexy as it could be.
 
I just realized all of my Wii accessories are black (minus the zapper and the balance board). Nintendo better not only release a white console. I loathe having to mismatch everything. Plus, I have 7 black machines under my TV, a white one added to it would look horrible.

They're totally not going to have a black console for 2 years again, aren't they? Fuck off Nintendo.
 
This is just a dumb thought brought on by that infographic, but the UPad's large size is going to make it harder to stash away and forget about than the average controller/remote. It's kind of designed to be more of a coffee table fixture than past controllers, that could do well to extend and increase the mindshare or the product. Especially with the tablet features, its designed to be part of the core of an entertainment system. Any thoughts? Do you think Nintendo thought about that?
 
Yaceka said:
I just realized all of my Wii accessories are black (minus the zapper and the balance board). Nintendo better not only release a white console. I loathe having to mismatch everything. Plus, I have 7 black machines under my TV, a white one added to it would look horrible.

They're totally not going to have a black console for 2 years again, aren't they? Fuck off Nintendo.
Click to expand...

I own two Wiis just because I hated the white one so much lol.
 
ShineALight said:
This is just a dumb thought brought on by that infographic, but the UPad's large size is going to make it harder to stash away and forget about than the average controller/remote. It's kind of designed to be more of a coffee table fixture than past controllers, that could do well to extend and increase the mindshare or the product. Especially with the tablet features, its designed to be part of the core of an entertainment system. Any thoughts? Do you think Nintendo thought about that?
Click to expand...

They'll probably sell it that way but I doubt it was intentional.
 
Yaceka said:
I just realized all of my Wii accessories are black (minus the zapper and the balance board). Nintendo better not only release a white console. I loathe having to mismatch everything. Plus, I have 7 black machines under my TV, a white one added to it would look horrible.

They're totally not going to have a black console for 2 years again, aren't they? Fuck off Nintendo.
Click to expand...

It can't get worse than in the N64 days. I didn't have two controllers of the same color. Rainbow gaming at it's best; even the controller included in the console package had a different color than the console :lol
 
MDX said:
The Wii itself used the same memory as the 360: GDDR3.
Why would they forego GDDR5? What would AMD push for?
Click to expand...
I'm still hoping we'll see a 2GB DDR3 config, i.e. 4x 4Gb chips on a 128bit bus.

edit: or perhaps not - samsung's 4Gb DDR3 (leader in densities) is still limited to 16bit interfaces, i.e. 4 chips would net a 64bit bus :/
 
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