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[mrklaw]

where can you buy a GPS with a 6-inch touchscreen for $79? budget GPS usually have shitty 3" screens.

The controller will obviously be expensive in comparison to a wiimote or dualshock. So it'll take up a higher proportion of the overall cost of goods than other consoles. So for the same retail price, less money will have been spent on the console guts themselves.

I think all of that is fairly straightforward?

I think cost is possibly a factor in Nintendo not planning to sell controllers separately. Wiimote + nunchuk combos are already expensive enough. Add in a large rechargable battery and a 6inch relatively high res screen and I think you'd be looking at $100 easily if you were to buy it as an accessory in store.

 

[SneakyStephan]

...Dolphin renders games at a higher resolution, it doesnt upscale.

Yes and that is what the guy is asking for.

Wether your tv upscales the wii footage or the wii U does it, it's going to look bad.
Why on earth would he ask for upscaling.

 

[NinjaTehFish]

For one, they had Futuremark make a demo for 3DS last year iirc. Second, Reggie wouldn't say who made it when asked, despite the fact that he said that the Zelda demo was made internally just seconds before. They want to keep it secret, so it might be an outside team.

FFS.
That demo was for that particular pica gpu series and has almost nothing to do with 3DS.

The amount of people ive seen state this and have the same thing pointed out is amazing.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-xxUyJvQQ

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Even if that's true, running UE3 or what have you doesn't mean the demo wasn't made by Nintendo (just that it was using a licensed engine).

You won't see disagreement from me on that. Of course it also doesn't mean that Nintendo didn't provide a kit to Epic months ago, for which they ported their engine and built this demo. It could also be a equal partnership or something anywhere inbetween. Actually, Retro x Epic would make a great deal of sense.

All that said, we'll never know.

 

[BurntPork]

FFS.
That demo was for that particular pica gpu series and has almost nothing to do with 3DS.

The amount of people ive seen staet this and have the same thing pointed out is amazing.

I thought that might be the case, but I wasn't sure, which is why I said "iirc."

 

[max-pain]

Why?

If you have an argument against it being Power7, enlighten us. Otherwise you're not really adding anything to the thread.

Size, power consumption, useless features in console space, etc.

 

[Haunted]

New threads for new speculation.

wait what


It truly has gotten out of hand with the Wii U threads. Completely dominated the front page during and after E3, drowned out Vita talk and even game OTs. I know it's Nintendo we're talking about and all, but I think with the limited information we have as of now, most relevant topics have been covered and talked about - for now.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

where can you buy a GPS with a 6-inch touchscreen for $79? budget GPS usually have shitty 3" screens.

The controller will obviously be expensive in comparison to a wiimote or dualshock. So it'll take up a higher proportion of the overall cost of goods than other consoles. So for the same retail price, less money will have been spent on the console guts themselves.

I think all of that is fairly straightforward?

I think cost is possibly a factor in Nintendo not planning to sell controllers separately. Wiimote + nunchuk combos are already expensive enough. Add in a large rechargable battery and a 6inch relatively high res screen and I think you'd be looking at $100 easily if you were to buy it as an accessory in store.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GT0V78/?tag=neogaf0e-20

There's the most expensive bit of the controller. $43 at Amazon. Battery and receiver included. Entirely anecdotal.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

New threads for new speculation.

wait what


It truly has gotten out of hand with the Wii U threads. Completely dominated the front page during and after E3, drowned out Vita talk and even game OTs. I know it's Nintendo we're talking about and all, but I think with the limited information we have as of now, most relevant topics have been covered and talked about - for now.

There was an attempt to make this a megathread that would encompass all Wii U news (and therefore hopefully prevent the zombie like spread of new threads), but the mods changed the thread title.

 

[Oppo]

There is no proof that the Wii U can't be housing something better, simply because of box size.
We have no idea what kind of cooling it has, not to mention that the Wii U has a lot of displacement surface.

Sorry for the late reply.. but this struck me as a bit of odd phrasing.

Of course it would make sense to assume that with the constant revisions Sony and MS are doing, that a comparable amount of computing power actually can be inferred roughly from the size of the console. We just had the PS3 slim last year and the Xbox 360 S very recently. In the PS3 Slim's case there is an internal HDD taking up room to consider. Xbox 360 S, I think they wanted to keep a somewhat similar profile, but it's not that small. These designs are not frozen in time 5/6 years ago, they are being constantly refined.

Anyways my point is, the Wii U is a little bit long right now, and it probably compares to the PS3 slim if you were to remove the drive bay, in total actual component size.

As for the "displacement surface", I'm not sure what you meant by that, as that is another way of saying size?

 

[DocTarHeel]

where can you buy a GPS with a 6-inch touchscreen for $79? budget GPS usually have shitty 3" screens.

The controller will obviously be expensive in comparison to a wiimote or dualshock. So it'll take up a higher proportion of the overall cost of goods than other consoles. So for the same retail price, less money will have been spent on the console guts themselves.

I think all of that is fairly straightforward?

I think cost is possibly a factor in Nintendo not planning to sell controllers separately. Wiimote + nunchuk combos are already expensive enough. Add in a large rechargable battery and a 6inch relatively high res screen and I think you'd be looking at $100 easily if you were to buy it as an accessory in store.

I think the actual GPS component of GPSes is what drives up their price, not the screen.

That being said, the Wii U controller will still be the most expensive controller ever packaged with a console.

 

[Koopakiller]

c'mon pplz, a 6 inch LCD is not 100 fucking dollars. I bought a 22 inch monitor 4 years ago for $200 and no doubt they made a profit off of me so it's completely ridiculous to say that something 1/4th as big would be half the price TODAY. what it costs NINTENDO to manufacture something like that probably comes to $20 or less, small fucking potatoes

Saying it will be $400 with a minimal profit margin is even crazier. It will be $300 and it will have a 50% profit margin

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Sorry for the late reply.. but this struck me as a bit of odd phrasing.

Of course it would make sense to assume that with the constant revisions Sony and MS are doing, that a comparable amount of computing power actually can be inferred roughly from the size of the console. We just had the PS3 slim last year and the Xbox 360 S very recently. In the PS3 Slim's case there is an internal HDD taking up room to consider. Xbox 360 S, I think they wanted to keep a somewhat similar profile, but it's not that small. These designs are not frozen in time 5/6 years ago, they are being constantly refined.

Anyways my point is, the Wii U is a little bit long right now, and it probably compares to the PS3 slim if you were to remove the drive bay, in total actual component size.

As for the "displacement surface", I'm not sure what you meant by that, as that is another way of saying size?

This is a really good picture. Add a couple of inches to the back and remove the gamecube ports, and you've got room for some really decent airflow over the CPU/GPU - assuming that they're near the back.

 

[BurntPork]

Size, power consumption, useless features in console space, etc.

Which is why they would customize it and remove the useless features, thus lowering heat and size.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Reggie wouldn't say who made it when asked, despite the fact that he said that the Zelda demo was made internally just seconds before. They want to keep it secret, so it might be an outside team.

Eh, it could even be ATi, who I believe was only recently a secret partner when Reg gave that interview.

 

[strata8]

Sorry for the late reply.. but this struck me as a bit of odd phrasing.

Of course it would make sense to assume that with the constant revisions Sony and MS are doing, that a comparable amount of computing power actually can be inferred roughly from the size of the console. We just had the PS3 slim last year and the Xbox 360 S very recently. In the PS3 Slim's case there is an internal HDD taking up room to consider. Xbox 360 S, I think they wanted to keep a somewhat similar profile, but it's not that small. These designs are not frozen in time 5/6 years ago, they are being constantly refined.

Anyways my point is, the Wii U is a little bit long right now, and it probably compares to the PS3 slim if you were to remove the drive bay, in total actual component size.

As for the "displacement surface", I'm not sure what you meant by that, as that is another way of saying size?

But then you look at the Xbox 1.

 

[BurntPork]

Saying it will be $400 with a minimal profit margin is even crazier. It will be $300 and it will have a 50% profit margin

Please tell me that's a joke. You seriously think that the total price of the hardware + expenses will be $150? I doubt that even the 3DS stays under $150 after adding in all of the expenses. I find it unlikely that the cost of hardware alone is below $200.

 

[max-pain]

Which is why they would customize it and remove the useless features, thus lowering heat and size.

They have to remove and simplify so much, that it will be so far from the original design. Both have the same instruction set. (Like an Atom from a Core 2.)

 

[BurntPork]

They have to remove and simplify so much, that it will be so far from the original design. Both have the same instruction set. (Like an Atom from a Core 2.)

Okay, so what do you think the CPU is based on?

 

[plagiarize]

But then you look at the Xbox 1.

why would we look at the Xbox of all things?

 

[Chaplain]

I doubt that even the 3DS stays under $150 after adding in all of the expenses. I find it unlikely that the cost of hardware alone is below $200.

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html

Nintendo's groundbreaking 3DS handheld gaming system carries a bill of materials (BOM) of $100.71, according to a preliminary physical dissection of the product conducted by the IHS iSuppli Teardown Analysis Service. When the $2.54 manufacturing cost of the 3DS is added in, the total cost to produce the portable gaming system rises to $103.25

 

[Alexios]

Please tell me that's a joke. You seriously think that the total price of the hardware + expenses will be $150? I doubt that even the 3DS stays under $150 after adding in all of the expenses. I find it unlikely that the cost of hardware alone is below $200.

Yeah, I constantly see people saying this costs so little, that costs so little, that other thing is negligible, etc etc, and come up with sums of like $5 for gadget costs and claims of how it would be stupid or even more expensive to go for older or considered cheaper technology... Then you look @ things like low end laptops and go like "lolwut, if such new technologies were so freaking cheap, even cheaper and more effective than these, why do they even still manufacture laptops with shitty processors and graphics cards that don't come anywhere near those capabilities?". Oh and they rarely cite convincing sources for where they get the costs from.

The asterisk above is important. And where are the R&D costs and manual labor? Not that they can even know what deal Nintendo got for everything, they could be overcharged.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

They have to remove and simplify so much, that it will be so far from the original design. Both have the same instruction set. (Like an Atom from a Core 2.)

Wouldn't it be easier to remove features than add them?

 

[Chaplain]

Off-topic:

I would like to add that since the 3DS costs Nintendo $103 to manufacture, there is no reason why they shouldn't sell the system for $199.

 

[DocTarHeel]

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html



http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press%20Releases/2011-03-28_Nintendo_DS.png[ /IMG][/QUOTE]

I don't see how one can leave out R&D costs among other things in these "Total cost" numbers. Then you also have to take into account the profit that the individual retailers are making.

The same thing should be taken into consideration for Wii U too.

OFF TOPIC: I just realized how weird the word "cost" is.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html



http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press%20Releases/2011-03-28_Nintendo_DS.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
The funniest bit about this is that it doesn't include any licensing fees. They're paying license fees to the companies that design each of these chips.


[QUOTE=DocTarHeel]I don't see how one can leave out R&D costs among other things in these "Total cost" numbers. Then you also have to take into account the profit that the individual retailers are making.[/QUOTE]

It's valid to remove R&D costs (that's amortized over the life of the product), but including any per system costs like licenses for chip designs and shipping/retailer markup is important.

 

[demosthenes]

Off-topic:

I would like to add that since the 3DS costs Nintendo $103 to manufacture, there is no reason why they shouldn't sell the system for $199.

Having a price drop right around the time Vita is supposed to come out will be good news for Nintendo and WOW @ it only costing $103.

 

[BurntPork]

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html

And the costs of R&D, marketing, packaging, built-software, shipping, possible licensing, and the retailer's cut?

No, Nintendo is not making a 60% profit on the 3DS.

 

[Koopakiller]

Please tell me that's a joke. You seriously think that the total price of the hardware + expenses will be $150? I doubt that even the 3DS stays under $150 after adding in all of the expenses. I find it unlikely that the cost of hardware alone is below $200.

It's not unlikely, it's realistic and anything else is wishful thinking. Especially when you consider that Wii U is at least a year away and in a year MS will be selling the 360 Arcade SKU for about $99 and no doubt they'll be making a profit too

 

[max-pain]

Okay, so what do you think the CPU is based on?

Maybe on the Xbox 360 cores. Beefed up a little.

 

[max-pain]

Wouldn't it be easier to remove features than add them?

In this case i don't think so.

 

[SolarPowered]

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html

This is the first time I've actually seen the figures. No way I'm buying this thing until it hits sub $200 with a pack-in game now. I'd rather buy another twenty or thirty games on Steam with the savings.

ewww

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Maybe on the Xbox 360 cores. Beefed up a little.

Actually, that won't work at all. 360 is in-order, and the Wii is out-of-order. Wii code won't run on an in-order processor, but you could go the other way around.

I think most of us are smart enough to know it won't be a straight Power 7 running at full speed. The system design just isn't right for that. Something that's a specialized descendant of Power 7 running at reduced clocks seems a lot more reasonable though.

 

[ElFly]

And the costs of R&D, marketing, packaging, built-software, shipping, possible licensing, and the retailer's cut?

No, Nintendo is not making a 60% profit on the 3DS.

R&D costs are not included on the hardware, people! Fucking take an economic 101 course for fuck's sake! Same with built-in software. Spoiler: they don't have to program a new Mii Quest for every 3DS ever made. They made it once, and the cost is not included on the 3DS cost.

All the other costs are equivalent with the DSi, except for marketing, which was probably bigger with the 3DS.

 

[ReBurn]

Where does Wii U fall on the absolute power scale for home consoles? I hear so much "more powerful" / "less powerful" talk, so I'm wondering what the apples to apples comparison is. I don't want to see specs for each. I want someone else to do that and just provide the final number that definitively enumerates the level of power the console possesses.

I know there isn't one definitive measurement, but the way many of these conversations go it would seem like many believe there is one.

The first post is really good, though. I love to read stuff like that.

 

[BurntPork]

Maybe on the Xbox 360 cores. Beefed up a little.

The 360 cores are in-order. It seems likely that they would use an out-of-order CPU for Wii BC.

It's not unlikely, it's realistic and anything else is wishful thinking. Especially when you consider that Wii U is at least a year away and in a year MS will be selling the 360 Arcade SKU for about $99 and no doubt they'll be making a profit too

So, your assumption is based on the hardware being similar to the 360's? That's pretty dumb.

And how much do you think the retailer makes in that case?

 

[wsippel]

http://www.qj.net/nintendo-3ds/news/report-reveals-nintendo-3ds-manufacturing-costs.html

http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press Releases/2011-03-28_Nintendo_DS.png

This teardown is highly speculative and at least partially proven wrong.

 

[BurntPork]

R&D costs are not included on the hardware, people! Fucking take an economic 101 course for fuck's sake! Same with built-in software. Spoiler: they don't have to program a new Mii Quest for every 3DS ever made. They made it once, and the cost is not included on the 3DS cost.

All the other costs are equivalent with the DSi, except for marketing, which was probably bigger with the 3DS.

Okay, I'll admit that the 3DS's profit is higher than I thought. I still don't think that the it's more than $120, though.

Also, now I'm turned off from 3DS, too. I still don't think that it was pure greed that led to the price and that wanting to avoid crazy sellout was still a factor. As such, I don't think that the profit on Wii U will be anywhere near 3DS, but I'll wait on buying it to be sure.

 

[wazoo]

Actually, Mark Rein heavily hinted that the demo was Unreal Engine based.

Epic make all Unreal based games in the world.

 

[KrawlMan]

And the costs of R&D, marketing, packaging, built-software, shipping, possible licensing, and the retailer's cut?

No, Nintendo is not making a 60% profit on the 3DS.

Other than retailer's cut, how does any of that affect the amount that Nintendo is making on each 3DS sold? The profit from each 3DS is used to recoup the money spent elsewhere.

 

[mrklaw]

c'mon pplz, a 6 inch LCD is not 100 fucking dollars. I bought a 22 inch monitor 4 years ago for $200 and no doubt they made a profit off of me so it's completely ridiculous to say that something 1/4th as big would be half the price TODAY. what it costs NINTENDO to manufacture something like that probably comes to $20 or less, small fucking potatoes

Saying it will be $400 with a minimal profit margin is even crazier. It will be $300 and it will have a 50% profit margin

I never said the LCD would be $100.

Bear in mind its not just the LCD you're buying. Yo'ure basically buying a wiimote plus nunchuck plus LCD and battery.

don't know how much a wiimote + nunchuk is, but if its about $40 retail, then that means the LCD + battery only has to be $60 to make the whole kit $100.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Epic make all Unreal based games in the world.

Read thread. Already discussed.

 

[max-pain]

Actually, that won't work at all. 360 is in-order, and the Wii is out-of-order.

IBM can do what for example ARM did with the cortex A8 to A9 transition.

 

[Koopakiller]

So, your assumption is based on the hardware being similar to the 360's? That's pretty dumb.

And how much do you think the retailer makes in that case?

You say dumb, I say realistic. History and all of the information we have so far says something will happen, you disagree and say that something else will happen. There's realistic and there's wishful thinking so speculate till the moon explodes but realize that you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think we're gonna get a huge jump because my prediction is spot-on because my prediction assumes 360 + 50% and that's all we should allow ourselves to be led to believe but I guess that would be dumb, wouldn't it?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

IBM can do what for example ARM did with the cortex A8 to A9 transition.

I have no idea what ARM did. Please explain it.

 

[BurntPork]

Other than retailer's cut, how does any of that affect the amount that Nintendo is making on each 3DS sold? The profit from each 3DS is used to recoup the money spent elsewhere.

Well, we could at least calculate the shipping...

Anyway, after the dismal reception that the Wii U has received and the 3DS looking like a joke, I don't think that Nintendo will go nuts again.

 

[max-pain]

I have no idea what ARM did. Please explain it.

The A8 is an in order architecture, the A9 is out of order.

 

[Vinci]

Off-topic:

I would like to add that since the 3DS costs Nintendo $103 to manufacture, there is no reason why they shouldn't sell the system for $199.

Except for the fact that they can.

People really need to stop talking about things like component cost and using that as the basis for a product's MSRP. That's not how it works. A company should price something based on what they believe they can sell it at. If that's $50 over production costs, $1,000 over production costs, whatever. It makes no difference. Nintendo stated that the 3DS's price was decided based on people's response to it at E3.

The fact that they've already sold millions of it at that price makes it clear that they weren't too far off the mark, especially given how few AAA games have hit the system thus far.

 

[DocTarHeel]

Well, we could at least calculate the shipping...

Anyway, after the dismal reception that the Wii U has received and the 3DS looking like a joke, I don't think that Nintendo will go nuts again.

I agree. I hope the 3DS was Nintendo's "$599" moment and prices the Wii U nicely, like Sony did with Vita.

 

[plagiarize]

This teardown is highly speculative and at least partially proven wrong.

you'd think that people would realise that when they see that it's only $25 more expensive than the DSi in 2009 is according to this.

there's no way that's right.

so what, do they think the DSi XL is more expensive to make than the 3DS?