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[Grampa Simpson]

Must be Grampa Simpson. ;P

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27915357#post27915357

He and Thraktor had a nice little debate about it back during the Cafe days.

It's funny looking back at the posts in that thread.

Not me, but I was going to state that the 476FP is a very interesting processor - mostly because it appears to have some commonalities to the wii/gc processor yet goes SMP.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

because he's a good baiter that's for sure.

I'd say that he's a master at this whole baiting thing.

 

[watershed]

I agree. They really need to have their own show/press conference after TGS and have it in September like last year. And a week or so earlier than last year's would be even better.

No doubt there will be another Nintendo World-esque event in Japan this year but I wonder what we'll see there. The 3ds will obviously be a big focus but will this event be broader with ds and wii games present unlike last year that was solely 3ds focused I believe. Will the wii u be there and in what form? Is it even far enough along to demo more than the "experiences" we saw at E3? Are 3rd party games far enough along to have demos ready?

But I also agree Nintendo needs to do another fall conference type event to show the public their vision of the future.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

No doubt there will be another Nintendo World-esque event in Japan this year but I wonder what we'll see there. The 3ds will obviously be a big focus but will this event be broader with ds and wii games present unlike last year that was solely 3ds focused I believe. Will the wii u be there and in what form? Is it even far enough along to demo more than the "experiences" we saw at E3? Are 3rd party games far enough along to have demos ready?

But I also agree Nintendo needs to do another fall conference type event to show the public their vision of the future.

To be honest at this point I think they need to focus on 3DS, as opposed to Wii U. I'd be satisfied with a really cool teaser vid and a couple concrete details on features/online. Strategically it would seem to make sense to save all the showstoppers for next E3.

 

[slidewinder]

So, what're some of the best-sounding ideas people have come up with as to what to do with the controller?

 

[watershed]

So, what're some of the best-sounding ideas people have come up with as to what to do with the controller?

There's a thread for those:http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433006
Lots of good ideas in there.

 

[slidewinder]

Awesome. Thanks!

 

[filler]

I think it would be cool to have a game that allows for a better experience, for a person that's watching you play. You play the game on the controller screen, with camera angles that are best for gameplay. Meanwhile on the TV, the game will be using camera angles that are more cinematic, but not very good for gaming.

The person watching may even be able to help you out by seeing something from their angle, that you can't see from yours. Like an enemy creeping around the corner.

 

[watershed]

I think it would be cool to have a game that allows for a better experience, for a person that's watching you play. You play the game on the controller screen, with camera angles that are best for gameplay. Meanwhile on the TV, the game will be using camera angles that are more cinematic, but not very good for gaming.

The person watching may even be able to help you out by seeing something from their angle, that you can't see from yours. Like an enemy creeping around the corner.

That's a pretty good idea and it could expand on the kind of second player assist mode Nintendo used in Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. I could see this allowing for more ways for casual gamers to play along side the more hardcore gamer in the family or couple or dorm or whatever.

 

[filler]

It came to mind from having friends and family members watching me play single player games. I noticed that sometimes they'd just like to sit and watch while I played a game like RE4. Pointing out things to try to help me, but of course I could see everything that was going on. So they weren't really helping me, but they still enjoyed trying to help out.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Anybody else get the feeling that a function similar to WiiConnect24 could be really interesting with the tablet. Assuming of course the controller has a "always on" type of feature, there's all sorts of things that could be used in a similar fashion. Sharing replays automatically with friends, leaderboards, auto-linking to youtube/gamefaqs for associated games.

Another cool thing that could be done theoretically is game sharing, and depending on the game/s simultaneous play of two VC games on one system.

From a gameplay perspective I could see all kind of great uses for it in Smash Bros.

 

[AzaK]

Anybody else get the feeling that a function similar to WiiConnect24 could be really interesting with the tablet. Assuming of course the controller has a "always on" type of feature, there's all sorts of things that could be used in a similar fashion. Sharing replays automatically with friends, leaderboards, auto-linking to youtube/gamefaqs for associated games.

Another cool thing that could be done theoretically is game sharing, and depending on the game/s simultaneous play of two VC games on one system.

From a gameplay perspective I could see all kind of great uses for it in Smash Bros.

The potential is HUGE for the tablet if Nintendo go all out. As you said, even when not playing games, combined with an always on console you can do so much. Check what friends are doing, chat, join their games (and play on the tablet or full screen), buy stuff from the estore, essentially anything you could do with the tv on you should be able to do on the tablet. If they streamline the Ui for that form factor and add the ability to launch the browser then you essentially have a gaming oriented tablet, albeit smaller and lower res. I'm extremely positive about the controller; Nintendo just have to capitalise on it.

 

[radioheadrule83]

They should make a dock for it or a kickstand, and make it not just a game controller, but a useful utility to have near the TV --

• It's got an IR port, like the 3DS, so there's no reason this couldn't actually function like one of those all in one universal remote controls. It could control your TV as well as the console!
• They could have an EPG (Electronic Programme Guide) on the tablet, showing what TV programs are on. Maybe you could set reminders and so forth.
• You could get marketing messages, notifications and hell - maybe email - delivered direct to the device.
• It could tell you when friends are online, even when the system itself was mostly powered down.
• If they did a Wake-on-LAN type thing, they could even have it 'ring' like a telephone for video calls!

 

[TheExplodingHead]

They should make a dock for it or a kickstand, and make it not just a game controller, but a useful utility to have near the TV --

• It's got an IR port, like the 3DS, so there's no reason this couldn't actually function like one of those all in one universal remote controls. It could control your TV as well as the console!
• They could have an EPG (Electronic Programme Guide) on the tablet, showing what TV programs are on. Maybe you could set reminders and so forth.
• You could get marketing messages, notifications and hell - maybe email - delivered direct to the device.
• It could tell you when friends are online, even when the system itself was mostly powered down.
• If they did a Wake-on-LAN type thing, they could even have it 'ring' like a telephone for video calls!

Pretty much what I was thinking, you just said it much better.

I'm all in favor of Nintendo being the first of the three to introduce a universal "controller device" that is usable, fun and even preferred for a wide demographic. But yeah, some sort of charging dock would be mandatory.

Here's another idea: If you have a external HDD hooked up to the Wii U, it can become a video capture device (and be able to upload to sites like youtube etc) as well as a DVR. Couple that with some simple video editing apps, and we have something great for all players.

They should also allow full homebrew support this time (piracy prevention of course though), the app store does this wonderfully. And allow homebrew dev's to create neat apps for free or a small fee.

 

[Caramello]

They should make a dock for it or a kickstand, and make it not just a game controller, but a useful utility to have near the TV --

• It's got an IR port, like the 3DS, so there's no reason this couldn't actually function like one of those all in one universal remote controls. It could control your TV as well as the console!
• They could have an EPG (Electronic Programme Guide) on the tablet, showing what TV programs are on. Maybe you could set reminders and so forth.
• You could get marketing messages, notifications and hell - maybe email - delivered direct to the device.
• It could tell you when friends are online, even when the system itself was mostly powered down.
• If they did a Wake-on-LAN type thing, they could even have it 'ring' like a telephone for video calls!

Pretty sure that's been confirmed? Or at least talked about in some fashion.

The controller has a sensor bar after all so technically you could use it with a Wii Remote to play Wii games on and Wii U games that support the Wii Remotes IR sensor.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Pretty sure that's been confirmed? Or at least talked about in some fashion.

Not sure but it's very likely to me. The charging port is in the centre of the base and there's holes on the base and the shelf for a stand to slot into.

But it could all be for the Zapperscope...

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I think the next time we see the Wii U controller a lot may have changed

everyone is expecting the worst for this thing pages and pages of doom because of the expected PS4 Nextbox generation leap ahead of this console

Nintendo is so deep in mystery secrecy mode that developers don't even know what they are working with. I enjoy reading the doom but I am hoping that Nintendo's quiet means something special this time... I hope

 

[BurntPork]

I think the next time we see the Wii U controller a lot may have changed

everyone is expecting the worst for this thing pages and pages of doom because of the expected PS4 Nextbox generation leap ahead of this console

Nintendo is so deep in mystery secrecy mode that developers don't even know what they are working with. I enjoy reading the doom but I am hoping that Nintendo's quiet means something special this time... I hope

They're quiet about everything. :/

 

[specialguy]

I think the next time we see the Wii U controller a lot may have changed

everyone is expecting the worst for this thing pages and pages of doom because of the expected PS4 Nextbox generation leap ahead of this console

Nintendo is so deep in mystery secrecy mode that developers don't even know what they are working with. I enjoy reading the doom but I am hoping that Nintendo's quiet means something special this time... I hope

I like how on the one hand it supposedly doesnt matter that Wii U wont be as powerful as the other next gen guys because of diminishing returns, but on the other hand this thread is filled with people obsessing and almost desperately hoping for Wii U being as powerful as possible. Which is it? Methinks one belies the other.

Anyways I've seen this "message board posters hoping for hidden monster power in a Nintendo console" movie before, when it was called the Wii. I already know the ending.

 

[rhoq]

Anyways I've seen this "message board posters hoping for hidden monster power in a Nintendo console" movie before, when it was called the Wii. I already know the ending.

But... Nintendo has learned from its mistakes of the past. Right?

If they have been listening like they claim, they know what needs to be done. I doubt it will be as powerful as the other 2 upcoming machines (and it doesn't need to be), but at the very least - it should be the PS2 of it's generation.

 

[bgassassin]

Not me, but I was going to state that the 476FP is a very interesting processor - mostly because it appears to have some commonalities to the wii/gc processor yet goes SMP.

Oh yeah it's easy to tell it wasn't you. I haven't seen you say anything so "matter-of-factly" like that about the subject. I get the feeling that if Miyamoto was the primary hardware designer again, that would have been a strong option. But with the younger guys handling it I can see them replicating a Xenon approach with Wii U's CPU in that it's built more from the ground up than just modifying an off the shelf part this time around. Something where they may use a variation of a PPE core that utilizes Power7 tech by having things like a modified VSX like VMX128 for Xenon, and implements L3 cache for each core to have direct access, yet still be shared like the POWER7 version.

 

[wsippel]

A 470S would most likely make a lot of sense. Some former AMD guy who worked on the Wii U called it a SoC, and that's exactly what the 470S was designed for. The 470 is incredibly easy to code for (single threaded, OOoE, very short pipeline) and offers an impressive performance in every area but single precision floating point - which is better left to the GPU, anyway. If they're very tightly integrated, basically Fusion level integration, this could be something. It would also fit the rumors, as the performance is very similar to the current HD systems - a bit weaker in some areas, more powerful in others, but it's a lot easier to actually get the most out of such a system.

Also, in an SoC, the "lots of eDRAM" comment gets a completely different meaning. It's quite possibly not L3 cache. It could simply be a large local memory pool (similar to MEM1 in the Wii), maybe 32MB, shared between the CPU and the GPU, and used to "emulate" the 1T-SRAM and the eFB and eTC in compatibility mode.

 

[Chaplain]

A 470S would most likely make a lot of sense. Some former AMD guy who worked on the Wii U called it a SoC, and that's exactly what the 470S was designed for. The 470 is incredibly easy to code for (single threaded, OOoE, very short pipeline) and offers an impressive performance in every area but single precision floating point - which is better left to the GPU, anyway. If they're very tightly integrated, basically Fusion level integration, this could be something. It would also fit the rumors, as the performance is very similar to the current HD systems - a bit weaker in some areas, more powerful in others, but it's a lot easier to actually get the most out of such a system.

Also, in an SoC, the "lots of eDRAM" comment gets a completely different meaning. It's quite possibly not L3 cache. It could simply be a large local memory pool (similar to MEM1 in the Wii), maybe 32MB, shared between the CPU and the GPU, and used to "emulate" the 1T-SRAM and the eFB and eTC in compatibility mode.

So, what does this mean in terms of what the hardware can do compared to PS3 and 360?

 

[TheExplodingHead]

So, what does this mean in terms of what the hardware can do compared to PS3 and 360?

It should put it right at, or slightly ahead of. There could still be a theoretical large bump in performance, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

They should make a dock for it or a kickstand, and make it not just a game controller, but a useful utility to have near the TV --

• It's got an IR port, like the 3DS, so there's no reason this couldn't actually function like one of those all in one universal remote controls. It could control your TV as well as the console!
• They could have an EPG (Electronic Programme Guide) on the tablet, showing what TV programs are on. Maybe you could set reminders and so forth.
• You could get marketing messages, notifications and hell - maybe email - delivered direct to the device.
• It could tell you when friends are online, even when the system itself was mostly powered down.
• If they did a Wake-on-LAN type thing, they could even have it 'ring' like a telephone for video calls!

These are all ideas that I had as soon as I had seen the Umote, especially the universal remote with TV programming on display. That would make you want a WiiU for every cable connected TV and a very tempting bulletpoint on the box. Similar remotes cost >$200, so it would be very tempting to just spend the extra $100 and get a WiiU that also plays games, does video chat, is an eBook reader, a digital picture frame or aquarium screen saver and displays internet on the controller.

Also Miyamoto recently mentioned the Umote dock in an interview. I'll see if I can remember where I saw it and post a link.

edit:
http://kotaku.com/5814227/how-the-wii-u-one-ups-television

Miyamoto envisions a device that you leave resting in a cradle by your couch, picking it up whenever you want to surf the Internet or check the weather. That cradle will presumably charge the controller as well, though Miyamoto declined to go into specifics about the battery or the life a single charge will net you.

"You should be able to play with it for the period of time you would need for something like an action game," he said by way of answering my question.

This is a device that Miyamoto seemed more interested in discussing in terms of how it will be used outside of gaming.

You could, he told me, use the controller to browse the web in your living room. You could use it, he suggested, to find something of interest on the Internet and "set it up" so that when the television was turned on to the console people could enjoy your discovery without needing to wait for any loading screens or on television web surfing.

 

[BurntPork]

It should put it right at, or slightly ahead of. There could still be a theoretical large bump in performance, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Not that the CPU is that much of a bottleneck at this point in the first place.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Not that the CPU is that much of a bottleneck at this point in the first place.

I really don't think we have enough details to make that assumption. Regardless I don't think any hardware aspect Nintendo reviews and makes final will become a bottleneck, to any degree hindering development. It could be argued that the GC CPU was a tiny bottleneck, but it didn't really hinder development.

Why are we talking about theoretical bottlenecks anyway?

 

[wsippel]

Not that the CPU is that much of a bottleneck at this point in the first place.

That's exactly the point. Thanks to OpenCL, there's really no reason to use a CPU with tons of FPUs and SIMD units. A lightweight, easy to develop for CPU tightly coupled with a powerful GPU is a much more sensible approach.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

That's exactly the point. Thanks to OpenCL, there's really no reason to use a CPU with tons of FPUs and SIMD units. A lightweight, easy to develop for CPU tightly coupled with a powerful GPU is a much more sensible approach.

I'm still holding to my assumption that this CPU will clock between 2.3GHz-2.6GHz. Otherwise, just based on clock rate (1xGHz or whatnot) would not be sufficient to couple with a powerful GPU.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Nintendo is worried that gamers may refrain from buying a Wii U at launch because they expect a price drop.

The concern, Nintendo boss Satoru Iwata said in a chat with investors, is that the recently announced 3DS price drop – only a few months after launch – will cause gamers to think twice when the Wii U launches next year.

"With regard to the influence on the Wii U, what we have to take most seriously is that the price markdown could damage the trust of the consumers who bought the Nintendo 3DS just after the launch," Iwata said.

"I feel greatly accountable for it. Our decision of the price markdown this time has a side effect that, at the launch of the Wii U, people may feel that the price might drop in the near future if they wait.

"Nevertheless, we have decided to cut down the price of the Nintendo 3DS as we consider it as a necessary decision now."

Last week Nintendo announced a huge 3DS price-cut. In the UK it'll amount to around a third off.

Nintendo said it took the decision so it "will be able to create momentum for Nintendo 3DS and accelerate its market penetration toward the year-end sales season, when the line-up for the applicable software shall be enriched".

Now, Nintendo has set about rebuilding the trust it established with those who bought the 3DS at launch – and those it expects are considering picking up the Wii U at launch.

"What we will be able to do to recover the consumers' trust before the launch of the Wii U is very important to us," Iwata continued.

"Since the Wii U we showed you at the E3 show in June was still in the development phase without very specific proposals on the software titles, we are going to announce the release date and the price next year when we are able to explain the specific proposals. Anyway, the biggest influence is on our consumers' trust, I think."

Eurogamer


Seems its gonna be next year for any solid info :_(

 

[BurntPork]

I really don't think we have enough details to make that assumption. Regardless I don't think any hardware aspect Nintendo reviews and makes final will become a bottleneck, to any degree hindering development. It could be argued that the GC CPU was a tiny bottleneck, but it didn't really hinder development.

Why are we talking about theoretical bottlenecks anyway?

What I mean is that the CPU being on-par with current-gen systems won't be a big issue. The GPU is far more important.

By way, I was comparing it to the current-gen.

Eurogamer

So, nothing new, though it does hint that they'll be more careful to price the Wii U appropriately.

And are people really dumb enough to believe that because Nintendo did this with 3DS that they'll do it again with Wii U?

 

[TheExplodingHead]

What I mean is that the CPU being on-par with current-gen systems won't be a big issue. The GPU is far more important.

By way, I was comparing it to the current-gen.

Alright nevermind then, I misunderstood...need more sleep.

 

[wsippel]

I'm still holding to my assumption that this CPU will clock between 2.3GHz-2.6GHz. Otherwise, just based on clock rate (1xGHz or whatnot) would not be sufficient to couple with a powerful GPU.

The maximum clock speed of a 470S is 1.6GHz. CPU at 1458MHz, GPU and eDRAM at 729 or 486MHz.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

What I mean is that the CPU being on-par with current-gen systems won't be a big issue. The GPU is far more important.

By way, I was comparing it to the current-gen.


So, nothing new, though it does hint that they'll be more careful to price the Wii U appropriately.

And are people really dumb enough to believe that because Nintendo did this with 3DS that they'll do it again with Wii U?

you'd be surprised

 

[TheExplodingHead]

The maximum clock speed of a 470S is 1.6GHz. CPU at 1458MHz, GPU and eDRAM at 729 or 486MHz.

But what I'm saying is, we need more real information. How many cores at 1.6 are we talking about? If it's a fully unlocked Quad (no reserved cores), from a pure processing angle it'll hardly out perform the Xenon pixel-for-pixel, and with a well designed code it WILL NOT outperform the Cell pixel-for-pixel. A lower clockspeed does mean something and has negative effects that a powerful GPU/efficiency cannot solve.

 

[radioheadrule83]

GBA SP and DS lite have people thinking there'll be a new 3DS model soon, in spite of the fact its only 4 months old. GBA SP came out 2 years after GBA, DS Lite came out one and a half years after DS. They neglect to notice that there were reasons for new models on those handhelds -- no backlight on GBA, and the rushed, hideous DS phat design.... precedents and expectations are easily set in the minds of gamers it seems.

If they hit the right price with Wii-U though, people will be less likely to wait for some kind of better deal.

 

[wsippel]

But what I'm saying is, we need more real information. How many cores at 1.6 are we talking about? If it's a fully unlocked Quad (no reserved cores), from a pure processing angle it'll hardly out perform the Xenon pixel-for-pixel, and with a well designed code it WILL NOT outperform the Cell pixel-for-pixel. A lower clockspeed does mean something and has negative effects that a powerful GPU/efficiency cannot solve.

The CPU has fuck all to do with pixels.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

The CPU has fuck all to do with pixels.

You get what I mean, was simply playing with words. But here I'll correct it: @1.6GHz I find it hard to believe that a triple or quad core could outperform ms-for-ms, 0's-to-1's, pass-for-pass, etc a 3.2GHz Xenon, or the Cell in the PS3 in a real-time game environment. If Nintendo is aiming to "outperform" the current rivals, then I think the lowest they'll go is 2.3-2.6, also considering the dimensions of the box itself.

 

[BurntPork]

You get what I mean, was simply playing with words. But here I'll correct it: @1.6GHz I find it hard to believe that a triple or quad core could outperform ms-for-ms, 0's-to-1's, pass-for-pass, etc a 3.2GHz Xenon, or the Cell in the PS3 in a real-time game environment. If Nintendo is aiming to "outperform" the current rivals, then I think the lowest they'll go is 2.3-2.6, also considering the dimensions of the box itself.

The dimensions of of the box make it impossible for the GPU to be more than 2x the current-gen consoles (which is why that Beyond 3D article says the 400SPs is the absolute max for the GPU), so looking at that it has no need to outperform Xenon anyway. As for Cell... lol. There's REALLY no need to outperform that. It's the definition of overkill.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Why are people saying the Wii U is going to be on par with PS3/360? The GPU alone should be at least around twice as fast never mind the fact that it should have a lot more RAM. Whilst the rest of the system might not be as big of a step up as the GPU and RAM, those two things on their own mean that the Wii U will be more powerful rather than on par like some have said.

The dimensions of of the box make it impossible for the GPU to be more than 2x the current-gen consoles (which is why that Beyond 3D article says the 400SPs is the absolute max for the GPU), so looking at that it has no need to outperform Xenon anyway. As for Cell... lol. There's REALLY no need to outperform that. It's the definition of overkill.

There have been several games where Xenon has bottlenecked the 360 so if the Wii U CPU is on par with Xenon then it will be a bottleneck for the system as the GPU in Wii U will likely be at least twoce as fast as the one in the 360. Nintendo aren't stupid, they wouldn't put something with Xenon power in the Wii U.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

The dimensions of of the box make it impossible for the GPU to be more than 2x the current-gen consoles (which is why that Beyond 3D article says the 400SPs is the absolute max for the GPU, so looking at that it has no need to outperform Xenon anyway. As for Cell... lol. There's REALLY no need to outperform that. It's the definition of overkill.

Very true, I'm expecting the GPU feature set to have some lineage and more modern features of the newer families. But it'll almost certainly be a VERY conservatively clocked R700-based GPU, again with custom updated extensions. I very slight bump over what the HD consoles are running now, more or less.

So the claim that "it can be a lightweight and low clocked CPU, and still be competitive" holds no water. Because the GPU as well will almost certainly not be "very powerful" in relation to current HD consoles and in relation to current PC's. It'll be a slight bump, and will need a capable a buff CPU to hold it's own.

 

[BurntPork]

Why are people saying the Wii U is going to be on par with PS3/360? The GPU alone should be at least around twice as fast never mind the fact that it should have a lot more RAM. Whilst the rest of the system might not be as big of a step up as the GPU and RAM, those two things on their own mean that the Wii U will be more powerful rather than on par like some have said.


There have been several games where Xenon has bottlenecked the 360 so if the Wii U CPU is on par with Xenon then it will be a bottleneck for the system as the GPU in Wii U will likely be at least twoce as fast as the one in the 360. Nintendo aren't stupid, they wouldn't put something with Xenon power in the Wii U.

Well, I guess you know more than me, so I'll take your word for it.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that B3D was being very conservative with their estimations? I would have thought the "high end" would be at least 480SPs @ 40nm, or 640SPs @ 32nm.

 

[KageMaru]

It would be cool if the Wii-U was the ps2 of next gen. I guess it's an accurate enough comparison if Wii-U ends up pushing medium type settings while the other two push high/very high level effects in games.

One things for sure, developers will have a much easier time porting down to the Wii-U than they ever did with the Wii. So hopefully the software sales are there to justify continued support.

I don't see the issue then, I didn't make a firm comment on the degree of improvement, only that it happened? Though I wouldn't characterize the N64 to GC improvement as "crap to decent", it was a pretty substantial increase in games at the end of the day.

Personally I think the increase in 3rd party support for the GC had more to do with how well the GC was designed and less with how well Nintendo worked with said studios. Granted 3rd party support was pretty good in the beginning of the Wii's life cycle, and it is clear that they had to have made an effort with the Wii-U to have games like NG3, Aliens, Darksider, etc. Was really impressed with that.

I'm not trying to downplay everything regarding their efforts, I'm just trying to play it safe with my expectations. With both the GC and Wii we've heard talk of improved relations with 3rd party studios and that didn't stop 3rd parties from abandoning both systems in the end.

There's a difference between being clued in and knowing as much about everything as the platform provider. The latter standard is something no one manages, so of course Nintendo doesn't either. That's self-evident.

Meanwhile though we have comments from EA reps that they're involved with helping design the network. We have comments from Vigil that they're troubleshooting the SDK along with Nintendo in realtime. Epic was evidently brought in to have UE3 ready in a workable state by E3. It's painfully obvious Wii U is extremely early, and that 3rd parties are being brought in earlier than they ever have been for a Nintendo system. The timetables actually seem to be about what we saw with Xbox 360.

I never said I expect 3rd parties to know as much as Nintendo regarding their plans, and I understand that it's unrealistic to expect as much since no platform holder shares that much this early on. I just think they should share more since that quote I posted above gives me reason to be concerned.

I don't follow, a lack of company discourse about investing in 3rd party content is preferable then? Skepticism with PR is fine, and I think everyone should be tempered in that regard but you seem pretty dead set on being dead set against this. Iwata's comments on that are hardly just cause to believe the opposite.

It's not that I believe the opposite, I'm just taking a believe it when I see it approach. I'm also not dead set against anything, it's just going to take a bit more from Nintendo to convince me since they haven't done nearly as well as MS and Sony in the past.

The part I underlined is what IBM told them directly. The following sentence that I didn't quote says they also asked them about the clock speeds, but IBM wouldn't give that to them.

So to summarize IBM told them it would have a lot of eDRAM, is a silicon on insulator design, that it's based on Watson technology, but they did not share the clock speeds.

I hope you're right, I really do. That article read more like speculation based on IBM's comment of EDRAM rather than anything IBM told them directly, the lack of quotes is what raises my suspicions.

I'm just trying not to get my hopes too high. =p

 

[Furianshi]

Unfortunately either scenario (exclusive support or dev-lead support) seems unlikely when you consider the massive install base gap between the ps360 and Wii-U.

That's my biggest concern with the Wii-U. That it'll be the port box this and next gen, with only Ninty and rare 3rd party exclusives pushing the system based on it's unique strengths.

I would be very happy with 360 keeping it's lead platform status until next gen. Most 360 games seem to be built for better hardware anyway, they're not consistently 1080p, and 30fps seems to be the standard. So if 360 remains the lead platform (which it will), hopefully we'll enter a period between Wii U release and next gen where the average 3rd-party game on Wii U will be 1080p/60fps.

And then, when PS4/720 are released, if Wii U has established itself a decent head-start with next gen, and has built a strong install-base, we could see a shift to a period where, instead of the 360, Wii U will become the lead platform and get the maxed-out treatment with developers pushing it's hardware. In that scenario, as next gen fully kicks off, Wii U would then be getting the 30fps games, and we could see 60fps becoming the standard for a few years with 3rd-parties on PS4/720.

I hope that's how it'll go down anyway. I'm anticipating something like what we saw 10yrs ago with all the 60fps PSX ports we saw on Dreamcast.

 

[The Main Event]

Are people still speculating the power of the Wii U based on its outer shell dimension? It doesn't have a hard drive remember. I don't know, just saying...

 

[wsippel]

You get what I mean, was simply playing with words. But here I'll correct it: @1.6GHz I find it hard to believe that a triple or quad core could outperform ms-for-ms, 0's-to-1's, pass-for-pass, etc a 3.2GHz Xenon, or the Cell in the PS3 in a real-time game environment. If Nintendo is aiming to "outperform" the current rivals, then I think the lowest they'll go is 2.3-2.6, also considering the dimensions of the box itself.

See, that's the great thing about 470S: It can. With four cores at 1.6GHz, it's slightly faster than Xenon. And it's much easier to develop for, too. Only aspect where it doesn't outperform Xenon is floating point performance, which doesn't really matter if you have an OpenCL compliant GPU. Also, with a CPU consuming only 6W and a nice and efficient SoC, you have a significantly higher thermal budget for the GPU side all of a sudden.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

See, that's the great thing about 470S: It can. With four cores at 1.6GHz, it's slightly faster than Xenon. And it's much easier to develop for, too. Only aspect where it doesn't outperform Xenon is floating point performance, which doesn't really matter if you have an OpenCL compliant GPU. Also, with a CPU consuming only 6W and a nice and efficient SoC, you have a significantly higher thermal budget for the GPU side all of a sudden.

Fair enough, but I guess we'll see what Nintendo ends up going with. I still think we'll end up seeing a clockspeed higher than 1.6GHz, but I could be wrong. I'm not seeing the Wii U having more of a reliance on the GPU, considering the main "feature" of the machine. But maybe I'm wrong, in the end all I care about is slightly above what we have now I don't care how they get there.

 

[KageMaru]

I would be very happy with 360 keeping it's lead platform status until next gen. Most 360 games seem to be built for better hardware anyway, they're not consistently 1080p, and 30fps seems to be the standard. So if 360 remains the lead platform (which it will), hopefully we'll enter a period between Wii U release and next gen where the average 3rd-party game on Wii U will be 1080p/60fps.

And then, when PS4/720 are released, if Wii U has established itself a decent head-start with next gen, and has built a strong install-base, we could see a shift to a period where, instead of the 360, Wii U will become the lead platform and get the maxed-out treatment with developers pushing it's hardware. In that scenario, as next gen fully kicks off, Wii U would then be getting the 30fps games, and we could see 60fps becoming the standard for a few years with 3rd-parties on PS4/720.

I hope that's how it'll go down anyway. I'm anticipating something like what we saw 10yrs ago with all the 60fps PSX ports we saw on Dreamcast.

Considering how some of the least impressive games on the DC and 360 were last gen ports, I'm not sure I like this idea.

It's usually the first console of a new generation that suffers the most last gen ports, and I see that happening with the Wii-U. However, unless it proves to be a monster software seller, I don't see it being the lead platform next gen. It would be competing against the next xbox and ps4, and assuming they are roughly the same in performance, this could result in Wii-U vs. 2 high end SKUs which would probably result in a higher install base when combined.

I see either the ps4 and/or 720 leading in game development, both using similar assets and such, then downporting said game to the Wii-U scaling back where necessary. This way the high end consoles aren't held back and the Wii-U should still enjoy great looking games. The only risk in this process is that maybe the controller isn't fully utilized.

Either way, I've always been a fan of leading development on high end and porting down. It's worked well in the past and hopefully will work well next gen.

 

[BurntPork]

Are people still speculating the power of the Wii U based on its outer shell dimension? It doesn't have a hard drive remember. I don't know, just saying...

And the original 360 didn't have an internal HDD either. And Wii U has 1/3rd the volume of the 360.

In the best case scenario, Nintendo could maybe stuff a 50W GPU in there, and even that may be pushing it.

 

[StevieP]

Fair enough, but I guess we'll see what Nintendo ends up going with. I still think we'll end up seeing a clockspeed higher than 1.6GHz, but I could be wrong. I'm not seeing the Wii U having more of a reliance on the GPU, considering the main "feature" of the machine. But maybe I'm wrong, in the end all I care about is slightly above what we have now I don't care how they get there.

If they're using a 470 line CPU, it will be a multiple of the Wii's current clock speed for BC (say, like 2x) similar to what Wii's CPU did for Gamecube BC. The GPU is speculated to be a 400SPU-ish part, much like an AMD Fusion part (which, FYI, is widely believed to be in either Sony or MS' next console).

Either way, I've always been a fan of leading development on high end and porting down. It's worked well in the past and hopefully will work well next gen.

Battlefield 3, Witcher 2, and Metro 2033 are the only recent examples that I can think of where games started on the higher spec'd platform and worked their way down.