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[guek]

uh that's almost certain to happen. i'd bet my wii dongle on it.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I cannot imagine how they could possibly release this system with less or equal RAM than 360/PS3.

I sincerely hope you're right.

 

[bgassassin]

With the early dev kits essentially having 1.5GB, it's hard to see it having less or even near the PS360 amount.

 

[Azure J]

With the early dev kits essentially having 1.5GB, it's hard to see it having less or even near the PS360 amount.

Woah whoa whoa, seriously? This is the first bit of passive news that has put a smile on my face in a long time.

 

[StreetsAhead]

With the early dev kits essentially having 1.5GB, it's hard to see it having less or even near the PS360 amount.

But this is Nintendo! They always skimp on the hardware and just generally screw everything up.

 

[bgassassin]

^ I don't know. Nintendo loves their memory as evidenced by the CPU expected use of lots of EDRAM.

Woah whoa whoa, seriously? This is the first bit of passive news that has put a smile on my face in a long time.

I think what everyone, including us here, forgot to factor in when the Project Cafe specs first leaked was that while the system memory for the first dev kit was said to be 1GB, the 512MB on the GPU was completely forgotten giving the dev kit 1.5GB of memory. I don't know if that amount is the final target, but that is my personal expectation.

 

[StreetsAhead]

^ I don't know. Nintendo loves their memory as evidenced by the CPU expected use of lots of EDRAM.

Sarcasm detector broken?

Or was I not obvious enough?

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

.
His control of the English language is horrid, agreed.

Also are we calling when the WiiU will release based off of gut-feeling? : P

October 14th 2012 - JP
US - ummmmm
Eur/Au - November 3rd 2012

got these from wherein the sun shines.

Honestly, October 2012 will be to late. It has to be released Spring/Summer of 2012. There is basically nothing holding the Wii up for another year.

With the early dev kits essentially having 1.5GB, it's hard to see it having less or even near the PS360 amount.

OH BOY OH BOY! Can't wait to hear more about these dev kits. 1.5GB is great, nono, fantastic.
Also, I don't see the Wii U being as powerful as the PS360, it will be stronger, by how much...I'm not sure. Though at first it will seem that it is only as strong as PS360.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I'm wondering what the demands on RAM would be like in the process of streaming images to the controller. It probably needs a lot to achieve what its doing.

 

[bgassassin]

Sarcasm detector broken?

Or was I not obvious enough?

I had a feeling you were, but when you see serious responses worse than that it's takes something much more outlandish to drive the point home, haha.

 

[LeleSocho]

With the early dev kits essentially having 1.5GB, it's hard to see it having less or even near the PS360 amount.

If a devkit have 1.5GB i think we can safely assume that the final ram will be 1GB... maybe 512MB system and 512MB VRAM

 

[Azure J]

The closer Wii U gets to 2GB, the better if I may be honest.

 

[antonz]

If a devkit have 1.5GB i think we can safely assume that the final ram will be 1GB... maybe 512MB system and 512MB VRAM

No not really. Nintendo outside of the N64 never gimped itself on ram. In fact in situations like the 3DS they ended up adding more at the end of the process.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I had a feeling you were, but when you see serious responses worse than that it's takes something much more outlandish to drive the point home, haha.

Duly noted.

 

[Zoramon089]

If a devkit have 1.5GB i think we can safely assume that the final ram will be 1GB... maybe 512MB system and 512MB VRAM

Yeah this makes no sense

 

[Jin34]

I'm more interested in the configuration of the memory systems as a whole. How much EDRAM on the gpu? UMA or split pool? GDDR3, 5 or XDR2?

 

[LeleSocho]

Yeah this makes no sense

Why? Devkits usually have more ram, having more ram means that you don't need to leave some headroom for debugging tools to run so you can use the full ram of the end user unit for the games.

 

[Emitan]

Can't wait for everyone to realized dev systems have more RAM than final systems.

 

[antonz]

Can't wait for everyone to realized dev systems have more RAM than final systems.

3DS didnt

 

[Jin34]

3DS didnt

And 360 at least at first. Still possible though, they might elect to go for more EDRam on the gpu instead of more VRAM or UMA system ram.

 

[NM0dz]

Honestly, October 2012 will be to late. It has to be released Spring/Summer of 2012. There is basically nothing holding the Wii up for another year.

Yeah i agree with you, just that given what we have seen at E3 and how unspectacular the whole WiiU fare was (no software, dev-kits are still rudimentary) and the lukewarm reception the 3DS got, I don't think nintendo will be rushing to get their new console on store shelves. I don't think they have the manpower required to holdup the 3DS (seems like they're in overdrive producing games for it) and also produce games in time for a mid-year WiiU release.

Would love to be wrong : )

Also, dev-kits have got 1.5GB ram? I like the sound of that

 

[bgassassin]

The closer Wii U gets to 2GB, the better if I may be honest.

It is a plausible scenario, especially if they use DDR3 and the memory controllers provided by IBM.

I'm more interested in the configuration of the memory systems as a whole. How much EDRAM on the gpu? UMA or split pool? GDDR3, 5 or XDR2?

Me too. I'm currently expecting them to go UMA for the primary memory using 1.5GB of DDR3, then 32MB of 1T-SRAM for the GPU, and so far the rumored 16MB of EDRAM for the CPU. As pointed out by wsippel awhile back, the two DDR3 memory controllers used in the Power7 can up to 100GB/s so I could see that being utilized. I don't think the possible gains of GDDR3 are enough to justify the power and cost, and I don't know if the latency of GDDR5 would be to Nintendo's liking on top of using a high enough clock to properly use its power and of course cost and power usage. With DDR3 Nintendo would only need 3 memory chips (4Gbit density) to achieve 1.5GB, keeping cost and heat down.

Why? Devkits usually have more ram, having more rammeans that you don't need to leave some headroom for debugging tools to run so you can use the full ram of the end user unit for the games.

That 1.5GB was based on the very first dev kit. We (most of us here) don't know what changes have been made since then which memory could be one of them.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Dunno if this has been mentioned, but one thing I'm excited about when it comes to the Wii U pad is what it can do for games like New Super Mario Brothers, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby Returns to Dreamland, and all other future games of that ilk...no more having to worry about both players needing to stay on screen, as one player can use the Wii U pad as a screen so he can go off on his own if he chooses.

Would really improve the games since you wouldn't feel as squished in.

 

[NM0dz]

Dunno if this has been mentioned, but one thing I'm excited about when it comes to the Wii U pad is what it can do for games like New Super Mario Brothers, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby Returns to Dreamland, and all other future games of that ilk...no more having to worry about both players needing to stay on screen, as one player can use the Wii U pad as a screen so he can go off on his own if he chooses.

Would really improve the games since you wouldn't feel as squished in.

awesome! but what happens if they're more than two players?

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I sincerely hope you're right.

Even if we play the "Wii is how Nintendo takes every system from here on out, hurr hurr hurr" path, the Wii still had a decent amount more RAM than last gen systems. The only current example we have is the 3DS and it has 2-4 times as much RAM as the PSP and twice as much as the Xbox.

I'm not expecting anything mindblowing (to anyone with more sanity than Crytek), 1.5-3 GB. I'm more interested in the type and division of the RAM than the amount.

 

[Dreamwriter]

3DS didnt

I think final 3DS dev kits did - it's always standard practice for the dev kits to have more memory than the actual device. It is true that certain specifications can change before a system's release, but that's in no way guaranteed, nor is it guaranteed to get better (original XBox is a prime example of a system that lost half of its RAM and some speed very close to release, thus screwing over launch titles).

 

[Azure J]

Even if we play the "Wii is how Nintendo takes every system from here on out, hurr hurr hurr" path, the Wii still had a decent amount more RAM than last gen systems. The only current example we have is the 3DS and it has 2-4 times as much RAM as the PSP and twice as much as the 360.

I'm not expecting anything mindblowing (to anyone with more sanity than Crytek), 1.5-3 GB. I'm more interested in the type and division of the RAM than the amount.

Methinks you mean Xbox.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

awesome! but what happens if they're more than two players?

:0

:/



Well, two player platformers are still fun.

 

[bgassassin]

I'm wondering what the demands on RAM would be like in the process of streaming images to the controller. It probably needs a lot to achieve what its doing.

That's something I wondered, but couldn't find any specific answers. It's probably why the four streams are limited to the resolutions they have. Even the budget card 6450 is supposed to support 3-4 screens and that's at higher resolutions. You'd think that with the console being "limited" to 1080p and the controllers limited to their resolution it wouldn't be too bad.

awesome! but what happens if they're more than two players?

I look forward to seeing how they pull off NSMB with 4 Upads.


And a slight amendment to my memory post. With GDDR5, I can see that being 1GB and being used after I remembered my speculated CPU/GPU clocks. The basis for the reason why I wasn't sure about it being used is also the reason they would use it. Going back to how Nintendo syncs clocks, I posted that if the CPU were 3.645GHz and the GPU was 607.5MHz that would put the clocks at a 6:1 rate. With Gamecube's memory, it was clocked at 2x the GPU and (2/3)x the CPU. If they went with GDDR5 clocked at 1822.5MHz, that would be 3x the GPU and .5x the CPU.

 

[bgassassin]

A poster that goes by the name Tottentanz made a very good observation IMO about the Wii U controller and the one used during Ubisoft's presentation at E3. Even though the "technical problem" is moot at this point since we have confimation that it isn't an issue any longer, I still thought it was worth sharing. I took a pic from the link Dennis provided that shows the controller up close on the E3 floor and one from the Ubisoft presentation. I think it gives us an idea of what the devs were using up to that point.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

If a devkit have 1.5GB i think we can safely assume that the final ram will be 1GB... maybe 512MB system and 512MB VRAM

Yea. No.

 

[Penguin]

A poster that goes by the name Tottentanz made a very good observation IMO about the Wii U controller and the one used during Ubisoft's presentation at E3. Even though the "technical problem" is moot at this point since we have confimation that it isn't an issue any longer, I still thought it was worth sharing. I took a pic from the link Dennis provided that shows the controller up close on the E3 floor and one from the Ubisoft presentation. I think it gives us an idea of what the devs were using up to that point.

I thought the cable was there so that they could stream what was happening on the controller to people in the audience?

 

[radioheadrule83]

I love the curve on L1 + R1, it reminds me of the SNES controller

 

[StreetsAhead]

I thought the cable was there so that they could stream what was happening on the controller to people in the audience?

It's not just the cable, look at the actual back of the controller.

 

[duk]

dev kits usually have a bit more ram than the production models

if 1.5gb then i would safely wager 1gb to 1.256gb

 

[bgassassin]

I thought the cable was there so that they could stream what was happening on the controller to people in the audience?

Don't get me to lying.[/countryphrase] I have no way to say you're right or wrong. That controller is definitely different though.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Methinks you mean Xbox.

Methinks you are correct.

 

[strem]

dev kits usually have a bit more ram than the production models

if 1.5gb then i would safely wager 1gb to 1.256gb

Crytek will not be pleased

 

[BurntPork]

Even if we play the "Wii is how Nintendo takes every system from here on out, hurr hurr hurr" path, the Wii still had a decent amount more RAM than last gen systems. The only current example we have is the 3DS and it has 2-4 times as much RAM as the PSP and twice as much as the Xbox.

I'm not expecting anything mindblowing (to anyone with more sanity than Crytek), 1.5-3 GB. I'm more interested in the type and division of the RAM than the amount.

If we go off of Wii and compare it to XBox, it'll be 768MB. Not enough.

If we go off of 3DS vs PSP, it'll be 1GB. Not enough.

So I hope we don't have to go off of anything. Less than 2GB is a disappointment, imo. 1.5GB will be a HUGE bottleneck if Sony and MS go with 3GB or more.

 

[Zoramon089]

If we go off of Wii and compare it to XBox, it'll be 768MB. Not enough.

If we go off of 3DS vs PSP, it'll be 1GB. Not enough.

So I hope we don't have to go off of anything. Less than 2GB is a disappointment, imo. 1.5GB will be a HUGE bottleneck if Sony and MS go with 3GB or more.

Where are you even getting these numbers from?!

 

[wabo]

A poster that goes by the name Tottentanz made a very good observation IMO about the Wii U controller and the one used during Ubisoft's presentation at E3. Even though the "technical problem" is moot at this point since we have confimation that it isn't an issue any longer, I still thought it was worth sharing. I took a pic from the link Dennis provided that shows the controller up close on the E3 floor and one from the Ubisoft presentation. I think it gives us an idea of what the devs were using up to that point.

Its just the TV Out add-on; wireless signal is occupied by the input video and the output controls, it cannot crunch video "in", video out and output controls. Also, there's no direct port in the console to output the video that goes to the WiiU controller.

 

[Mrbob]

I love the curve on L1 + R1, it reminds me of the SNES controller

Me too. I just wish L2 and R2 were triggers instead of one click buttons.

 

[BurntPork]

Where are you even getting these numbers from?!

Wii has ~1.5x as much RAM as the XBox, and 3DS has twice as much RAM as the (current) PSP.

 

[Jin34]

Its just the TV Out add-on; wireless signal is occupied by the input video and the output controls, it cannot crunch video "in", video out and output controls. Also, there's no direct port in the console to output the video that goes to the WiiU controller.

About the eDRAM thing, WiiU can handle 720p MSAA without tiling (unlike 360), but (I think) cannot 1080p.

Hmm how do you know this?

 

[BurntPork]

Hmm how do you know this?

The Nintenjas probably silenced him already.

 

[Azure J]

Its just the TV Out add-on; wireless signal is occupied by the input video and the output controls, it cannot crunch video "in", video out and output controls. Also, there's no direct port in the console to output the video that goes to the WiiU controller.

About the eDRAM thing, WiiU can handle 720p MSAA without tiling (unlike 360), but (I think) cannot 1080p.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good is this news Tech-GAF?

 

[Zoramon089]

Wii has ~1.5x as much RAM as the XBox, and 3DS has twice as much RAM as the (current) PSP.

Was there some point to this or...? Why compare it to the competition? Why not to Nintendo's previous systems? Because it makes too much sense?

Wii has 3.5x the RAM of the GC
3DS has 8x the RAM of the DS

 

[BurntPork]

Was there some point to this or...? Why compare it to the competition? Why not to Nintendo's previous systems? Because it makes too much sense?

Wii has 3.5x the RAM of the GC
3DS has 8x the RAM of the DS

Because Wii wasn't a generational leap over GCN, so there's nothing to compare it to.

And 3.5x? Isn't it closer to 2x?

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Because Wii wasn't a generational leap over GCN, so there's nothing to compare it to.

And 3.5x? Isn't it closer to 2x?

Maybe not a generational leap like 360 and PS3, but it still was. Show me a Gamecube game that looks as good as Super Mario Galaxy...oh wait you can't.

 

[BurntPork]

Maybe not a generational leap like 360 and PS3, but it still was. Show me a Gamecube game that looks as good as Super Mario Galaxy...oh wait you can't.

So, the original XBox was a generation ahead of the GCN, which was a generation above the PS2, which was a generation above the Dreamcast? And Uncharted 3 makes the PS3 a generational leap over the 360? Because that's what you're implying.

It wasn't a generational leap; it was an overclock.