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[bgassassin]

I'm expecting nothing less than a 6750m, if it can fit in a Macbook Pro it can fit even in the WiiU

Just piling on. Those processors tend to have "gimped" bandwidth, fillrates, and processing power.

 

[Eteric Rice]

....

OMFG

What?

 

[bgassassin]

OMFG

Yeah. After seeing it for the 360 and considering Wii and GC had embedded memory, I went and looked what was said for Flipper and Hollywood.

Here is the press release for Hollywood.

http://www2.renesas.com/news/en/archive/0606/1901.html

And here is where I got Flipper's info from.

http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/

The latter is a pretty good tech breakdown on the Gamecube. I remembered Nintendo changed the clocks before release, but that site has the previous clocks before the change (CPU upclocked, GPU downclocked) .

 

[guek]

Yeah. After seeing it for the 360 and considering Wii and GC had embedded memory, I went and looked what was said for Flipper and Hollywood.

Here is the press release for Hollywood.

http://www2.renesas.com/news/en/archive/0606/1901.html

And here is where I got Flipper's info from.

http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/

The latter is a pretty good tech breakdown on the Gamecube. I remembered Nintendo changed the clocks before release, but that site has the previous clocks before the change (CPU upclocked, GPU downclocked) .

still doesn't really say anything concrete though on the performance of the gpu, does it?

 

[AceBandage]

still doesn't really say anything concrete though on the performance of the gpu, does it?

Doesn't say anything about anything, really.
Just an interesting piece of information to mull over.

 

[bgassassin]

It does say it's the size Ace. The only way it isn't is if the "leaker" is wrong.

still doesn't really say anything concrete though on the performance of the gpu, does it?

Performance, no.

But that is how the GPU size has been described on Nintendo's consoles since using embedded memory. 1T-SRAM being mentioned with that just indicates where the embedded memory comes from.

From the bottom of that Wii press release.

NEC Electronics selected MoSys® as the DRAM macro design partner for the Wii devices because MoSys is experienced in implementing 1T-SRAM® macros on NEC Electronics' eDRAM process. MoSys designed the circuits and layout of high-speed 1T-SRAM macros on NEC Electronics' 90 nm CMOS-compatible eDRAM technology.

 

[BurntPork]

What?

It means that the GPU using 28nm might be a possibility.

Well, we can't say for sure unless we confirm that NEC was the fab for Flipper and Hollywood, but it's promising.

 

[bgassassin]

It means that the GPU using 28nm might be a possibility.

Well, we can't say for sure unless we confirm that NEC was the fab for Flipper and Hollywood, but it's promising.

That's easy actually. NEC was the fab for both.

Flipper (too big to post)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...--D8926F2011--(Flipper_A)--(Gamecube-GPU).jpg

Hollywood

 

[BurntPork]

That's easy actually. NEC was the fab for both.

Flipper (too big to post)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...--D8926F2011--(Flipper_A)--(Gamecube-GPU).jpg

Hollywood

Then this could really mean something. All bets are off now. I need to keep a closer eye on AMD's 7000 series to get a better idea of the limits.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Seriously though, if there are no analogs and triggers in the final version, I just might take AceBandage hostage. Then what?

Also, some of the textures in the bird demo were a bit... iffy.

I can't even see anything that well, is there an HD direct feed of it somewhere out there? I've only seen off screen crap.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Can someone explain the significance of the last few posts in layman's terms.

 

[AceBandage]

Can someone explain the significance of the last few posts in layman's terms.

28nm means they can fit more power in a smaller space.

 

[Azure J]

Can someone explain the significance of the last few posts in layman's terms.

NEC were the people responsible for fabricating both the Hollywood CPU part and Broadway GPU part in the Wii.

NEC is rumored to have some part of Wii U (could be just the memory nodes or could be the entire GPU part) being fabricated on a 28nm module.

28nm is waaaaaay smaller than anything out allowing for cooler and more efficient hardware specing within a smaller form factor.

Also, 1T-SRAM is a big component of Nintendo hardware since the GCN and NEC is personally responsible for it.

(As far as I'm following anyway.)

 

[TunaLover]

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

 

[BurntPork]

Seriously though, if there are no analogs and triggers in the final version, I just might take AceBandage hostage. Then what?


I can't even see anything that well, is there an HD direct feed of it somewhere out there? I've only seen off screen crap.

What do you mean by "analogs"?

 

[TunaLover]

What do you mean by "analogs"?

nmv
EDTI: I though that he was talking about analog triggers

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

What do you mean by "analogs"?

real analogs not bullshit stupid sliders. The kind that have better grips, and the kinds that also can be used as buttons by clicking them. You know like you do on PS3/360 to run in Call of Duty and Battlefield. Has other uses but that's the most popular example.

 

[Azure J]

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

Maybe NEC is supplying the T-SRAM as a superior (?) option to the originally rumored eDRAM? bgassassin mentioned on the last page that 1T is pretty much better than eDRAM at being eDRAM.

 

[EloquentM]

He means like dualshock analog sticks as opposed to slidepads

 

[Dreamwriter]

What do you mean by "analogs"?

He probably means full Analogue sticks rather than the 3DS-esque Circle Pads that were on the Wii-U touchscreen controllers at E3.

Edit: Severe beatdown

 

[antonz]

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

There was a hint that the embedded eDRAM not being for cache or framebuffer but an additional memory pool developers could use however they want. The 1T-SRAM in that situation would be the cache etc I would imagine

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

He probably means full Analogue sticks rather than the 3DS-esque Circle Pads that were on the Wii-U touchscreen controllers at E3.

Edit: Severe beatdown

the issue cannot be beaten down enough. I hope companies are yelling at nintendo to stop skimping on obvious things. Who cares if it makes your weird ass tablet controller look weirder, it's necessary.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The circle pads on the Wii U controller were supposedly pretty different from the 3DS ones

They apparently have grip to them, are larger, and have less of a deadzone

 

[sfried]

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

Dev kits could've been using "tons" of eDRAM to simulate theoretical targeted 1T-SRAM spec.

There was a hint that the embedded eDRAM not being for cache or framebuffer but an additional memory pool developers could use however they want. The 1T-SRAM in that situation would be the cache etc I would imagine

So eDRAM as the regular pool, 1T-SRAM for cache?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

the issue cannot be beaten down enough. I hope companies are yelling at nintendo to stop skimping on obvious things. Who cares if it makes your weird ass tablet controller look weirder, it's necessary.

I imagine it's mostly because they're afraid knocking the controller down or leaving it upside down would damage the sticks

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The circle pads on the Wii U controller were supposedly pretty different from the 3DS ones

They apparently have grip to them, are larger, and have less of a deadzone

but can they be pressed?

 

[Azure J]

the issue cannot be beaten down enough. I hope companies are yelling at nintendo to stop skimping on obvious things. Who cares if it makes your weird ass tablet controller look weirder, it's necessary.

Not to play devil's advocate for something unproven but if what ShockingAlberto says is true and the pads are clickable, would it still be an issue?

 

[bgassassin]

28nm means they can fit more power in a smaller space.

Or take what they were planning and make it even cooler.

NEC is rumored to have some part of Wii U (could be just the memory nodes or could be the entire GPU part) being fabricated on a 28nm module.

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with a memory module. History would indicate that would come from Samsung.

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

CPU - 45nm process, IBM's eDRAM for cache

GPU - 28nm process, embedded 1T-SRAM instead of eDRAM (think Xbox 360 in a way, but not saying it would be exactly like that using a daughter die)

Maybe NEC is supplying the T-SRAM as a superior (?) option to the originally rumored eDRAM? bgassassin mentioned on the last page that 1T is pretty much better than eDRAM at being eDRAM.

Or that's what they want us to believe.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

but can they be pressed?

Not that I know of

But button rearrangement could happen easily enough by putting "unnecessary in the heat of battle" things on the touchscreen

I'm a shift-to-run kind of guy so clicking in sticks for running seems weird to me. I always felt like I'm breaking my controller that way.

 

[Azure J]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up bg. I'm still a newbie with most of the deeper elements of console design and taking this as an opportunity to learn more about how they work.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

But some early reports from IBM (IIRC) say that the system will use "tons" of eDRAM, how fit the new 1T-SRAM report?

It's talking about two different chips. IBM is doing the CPU which has a ton of IBM's eDRAM, and this seems to be dealing with the GPU which seems to be using 1T-SRAM for it's embedded ram.

So basically both chips are going to have their own banks of embedded ram, it would seem.

 

[bgassassin]

Then this could really mean something. All bets are off now. I need to keep a closer eye on AMD's 7000 series to get a better idea of the limits.

ROFL! You're an interesting individual, that's for sure.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Not to play devil's advocate for something unproven but if what ShockingAlberto says is true and the pads are clickable, would it still be an issue?

nope, they could keep the sliders if they are better to grip than the 3DS, also if they are clickable then all is well. But they aren't

Oh and them triggers, add some, jeez, such a simple solution.

I'm a shift-to-run kind of guy so clicking in sticks for running seems weird to me. I always felt like I'm breaking my controller that way.

I'm the opposite, I love pressing them down. I do it for fun all the time while things are loading as well, it's addicting.

 

[TunaLover]

CPU - 45nm process, IBM's eDRAM for cache

GPU - 28nm process, 1T-SRAM for eDRAM



Or that's what they want us to believe.

Gotcha, thanks =)

About the controller, the main issues were that circle-pads/sticks are not clickeable, and the shoulder buttons are not analog. Hopefully they introduce analog shoulders at least.

 

[guek]

the issue cannot be beaten down enough. I hope companies are yelling at nintendo to stop skimping on obvious things. Who cares if it makes your weird ass tablet controller look weirder, it's necessary.

you really wanna make a big deal out of the sticks. It's almost certainly not going to happen.


frankly, I don't understand what the big deal is. clicking sticks sucks as an input.

 

[bgassassin]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up bg. I'm still a newbie with most of the deeper elements of console design and taking this as an opportunity to learn more about how they work.

We're pretty similar. I used the Wii U to help me get back on the ball with tech talk after a long layoff.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

you really wanna make a big deal out of the sticks. It's almost certainly not going to happen.


frankly, I don't understand what the big deal is. clicking sticks sucks as an input.

because if one wanted to use the wii-u as their main console, it would be a shame that such a simple and obvious thing to implement, that makes some of the most popular videogames on the planet comfortably playable wasn't implemented simply cause nintendo didn't feel like it or something.

That extra input works better for certain things over mapping them to other buttons. It's just a small example of my overall beef with Nintendo. They skimp. They don't do obvious things while everyone else has no trouble doing them. Will adding real triggers and clickable analogs/sliders hurt the wii-u in any way? No. Will they benefit the wii-u? Yes, for a lot of games, and like I said, including the most popular ones.

And when nintendo is trying to make the wii-u competitive in terms of 3rd party support and sales, one would think such an oversight wouldn't be made. Like I said, what bothers me most is they are SUCH EASY inclusions. Just typical nintendo weirdness that stops it from being there.

 

[Jin34]

because if one wanted to use the wii-u as their main console, it would be a shame that such a simple and obvious thing to implement, that makes some of the most popular videogames on the planet comfortably playable wasn't implemented simply cause nintendo didn't feel like it or something.

That extra input works better for certain things over mapping them to other buttons. It's just a small example of my overall beef with Nintendo. They skimp. They don't do obvious things while everyone else has no trouble doing them. Will adding real triggers and clickable analogs/sliders hurt the wii-u in any way? No. Will they benefit the wii-u? Yes, for a lot of games, and like I said, including the most popular ones.

And when nintendo is trying to make the wii-u competitive in terms of 3rd party support and sales, one would think such an oversight wouldn't be made. Like I said, what bothers me most is they are SUCH EASY inclusions. Just typical nintendo weirdness that stops it from being there.

Yup its something simple, easy to implement and it's the standard even if it is a bit clumsy for things like sprinting in an fps, but when you are Nintendo and are already at a disadvantage in mind share when it comes to third parties/gamers, you don't get cute with something like this.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Now you understand my pain when PS3 F/TPS don't implement Move aiming, or the fear I feel that we're not going to see Wiimote support for F/TPS on the Wii-U.

I really hate the what ever group you want to call it for not embracing pointer controls.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yup its something simple, easy to implement and it's the standard even if it is a bit clumsy for things like sprinting in an fps, but when you are Nintendo and are already at a disadvantage in mind share when it comes to third parties/gamers, you don't get cute with something like this.

exactly

Now you understand my pain when PS3 F/TPS don't implement Move aiming, or the fear I feel that we're not going to see Wiimote support for F/TPS on the Wii-U.

I really hate the what ever group you want to call it for not embracing pointer controls.

to be fair, what I'm referring to is already a standard everywhere but nintendo-land. Pointer controls really aren't. But I'm with you, there should be the options out there for everyone, especially if they are easy as hell to implement.

 

[Jin34]

Now you understand my pain when PS3 F/TPS don't implement Move aiming, or the fear I feel that we're not going to see Wiimote support for F/TPS on the Wii-U.

I really hate the what ever group you want to call it for not embracing pointer controls.

Well hopefully since EA and Activision already have coded for the Wiimote they will copy/paste them into Wii U fps games.

 

[guek]

the thing is, lacking clickable sticks or analog triggers wont make any games unplayable. We went over this a little bit earlier, there's other things the controller can do to compensate.

I just don't think it's going to make a big difference.

Like...at all.

But I guess something like this is just up to personal preference. You're entitled to want those features in the controller, but I seriously doubt most people will care.

 

[AzaK]

Not that I know of

But button rearrangement could happen easily enough by putting "unnecessary in the heat of battle" things on the touchscreen

I'm a shift-to-run kind of guy so clicking in sticks for running seems weird to me. I always felt like I'm breaking my controller that way.

I'm with you. Also, I feel like the click to run paradigm is a duct-tape solution to not having a better solution because they used up all the other possible buttons. It feel extremely unnatural to me.

Not having clickable Wii U sticks is not even on my list of concerns. Grip yes. The 3DS is not good in that regard, my fingers slip and change position on them over time.

 

[bgassassin]

Well it depends really. 28nm is really just getting into gear so intially yields will be low but if they still planned the mid year launch I dont see why there would be a delay. Ive heard more issues of the economy causing manufacturers to limit production at the new process than any issue with the process tech itself

Especially if they aren't using TSMC.

 

[antonz]

Especially if they aren't using TSMC.

Yeah exactly. I can see Nintendo footing the extra cost for 28nm specifically cause it makes reaching their case goals etc far more possible.

NEC is part of the 28nm alliance with IBM etc too

 

[BurntPork]

because if one wanted to use the wii-u as their main console, it would be a shame that such a simple and obvious thing to implement, that makes some of the most popular videogames on the planet comfortably playable wasn't implemented simply cause nintendo didn't feel like it or something.

That extra input works better for certain things over mapping them to other buttons. It's just a small example of my overall beef with Nintendo. They skimp. They don't do obvious things while everyone else has no trouble doing them. Will adding real triggers and clickable analogs/sliders hurt the wii-u in any way? No. Will they benefit the wii-u? Yes, for a lot of games, and like I said, including the most popular ones.

And when nintendo is trying to make the wii-u competitive in terms of 3rd party support and sales, one would think such an oversight wouldn't be made. Like I said, what bothers me most is they are SUCH EASY inclusions. Just typical nintendo weirdness that stops it from being there.

Based on the 3DS add-on, it's most likely getting triggers. As for the sticks, real sticks would be uncomfortable unless they move away from the tablet form-factor or make them extremely short. And the reason they're not clickable is Nintendo being cheap. Basically, they don't want to have to replace the controller when the stick buttons break. Between motion controls and the touchscreen, they're only important if you can't adapt.

 

[EloquentM]

Seriously though, if there are no analogs and triggers in the final version, I just might take AceBandage hostage. Then what?


I can't even see anything that well, is there an HD direct feed of it somewhere out there? I've only seen off screen crap.

I believe this is direct footage could be wrong though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shch7LNkVXw

 

[StreetsAhead]

I believe this is direct footage could be wrong though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shch7LNkVXw

I believe that's direct feed from the e3 conference, yes.

(Note that the footage there and the on-floor demo were noticeably different graphically in some places, too.)

 

[antonz]

I believe that's direct feed from the e3 conference, yes.

(Note that the footage there and the on-floor demo were noticeably different in some places too.)

Yes from what has been gathered the on stage video was apparently made with an older build of the demo while the show floor got access to the latest version of the Engine demo.

The floor version was much nicer in general

 

[EloquentM]

Yes from what has been gathered the on stage video was apparently made with an older build of the demo while the show floor got access to the latest version of the Engine demo.

The floor version was much nicer in general

has anyone made a comparison video or taken comparison shots?