Support NeoGAF

[Jorok Goldblade]

Yeah, I can only see them tweaking a couple of things for launch, kinda like teh original Wii control vs. the final design:

At most, I could only think of Nintendo reducing the size of the thing, by either resizing the screen and increasing pixel density, or moving the insides in a bit? Still seems highly unlikely.

That said, it does look a little chubby at the moment. Maybe they'll remove the camera too? Would take the cost down, and having a camera pointed at your chin isn't really ideal either...

They'll probably change the lower triggers to be analog. Frankenstick has analog triggers, but the E3 Wii U prototype didn't. If they add the digital click, it gives them some options for Gamecube virtual console.

The start/select/home buttons could be moved somewhere more convenient. I'm not sure how much of a pain they are to press now, but I could see them moving if they prove to be an issue.


Otherwise, maybe just changing the aesthetics of the console itself a little more, just to make it clearer that its a new system and not a Wii Peripheral.

If developers throw a fit for it, they may make the slide pads click able, but I don't think that's a high priority. Those functions could be mapped to touch screen options if needed.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I remain pretty confident that the reason they didn't go with sticks is because of the controller's design and weight. People are going to put their systems laying down on the front and those sticks will be the two points holding up the weight.

I imagine part of the concern is not wanting to replace the controllers because of broken sticks.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I hope they pack a damned Wiimote and nunchuck in there for third party support. Losing the Wiimote is certainly not going to make me buy their console on day one.

Yeah, the way I figure it, they absolutely must pack in a Wii Remote + in order to solidify that as a standard control method. Otherwise, we'll be face with the same dilemma as this gen with developers assuming people only own a basic Wii Remote when designing their games.

 

[Bert]

I remain pretty confident that the reason they didn't go with sticks is because of the controller's design and weight. People are going to put their systems laying down on the front and those sticks will be the two points holding up the weight.

I imagine part of the concern is not wanting to replace the controllers because of broken sticks.

Surely it's simple ergonomics? With a bigger pad you'd have to stretch your thumb uncomfortably to reach over traditional sticks, hence the circle pads.

 

[effzee]

The thing is when they show it next... they need to show A game. Not a full blow out, fine. Not an early alpha-can't really tell anything but it looks promising game. they need to show something in game that reflects the visuals accurately. I don't think the demos they showed really taxed the system. They need SOMETHING tangible that provides the hook though. something that looks impressive and that the other systems don't have and looks on par or better than PS3/360 and is exclusive. If they just show ONE GAME they're golden. And yes, I of course mean a core franchise like Mario, Zelda (too soon for that I know, and yes I'm aware of the lighting tech demo), wave racer (there is a real possibility I think, Nintendo has seemed to like that as an early/launch game) SOMETHING Nintendo and familiar.

That, OR they need to show off their online system and it needs to be impressive and on par with the others, but I think they're saving that for the FULL blow out.

Oh 100% agreed. Problem is I don't get how they DID NOT realize this when they revealed the system. They seemed almost shocked to see the mixed to down right negative reactions. How can you be in the industry for so long and have planned both terrible and great E3 presentations and not realize that if you tease a console, build the hype, and then only show tech demos that people be disappointed? Whenever that next showing is it has to show some killer software from both 1st and 3rd parties.

I don't know why but I am holing out hope that for once they also learn how to do online right. Even if before E3 they don't reveal the games they could stagger the information and have a big reveal for their online infrastructure.

Actually, Nintendo could have shown a number of full games at E3, but they chose not to for some reason. They had all their big third-party developers come up with full demos of the games they were working on (the games that were in Nintendo's promo video), but then at the last minute decided to only show their tech demos instead, to the befuddlement of the developers.

Yeah I heard that before too and again it makes no sense why they didn't show those games or have them playable. Did they look worse than the tech demos? Did they not properly show or take advantage of the controller? Something must have spooked them to the point that they decided against it.

Its a shame because without the software all they showed was the box and controller which while intriguing left more questions than answers.

 

[MDX]

Speculating about the WiiU...

Who here does not think that Nintendo will go with a SoC design? Putting the CPU and GPU on the same die? And would it be a mistake, not to?

This is what Microsoft has done with the Xbox360S.

And the benefits cannot be ignored:

Produced on the IBM/GlobalFoundries 45nm process, it's fair to say that the new SoC (pictured above) is the first mass-market, desktop-class processor to combine a CPU, GPU, memory, and I/O logic onto a single piece of silicon. The goal of the consolidation was, of course, to lower the cost of making the console by reducing the number of different chips needed for the system, shrinking the motherboard, and reducing the number of expensive fans and heatsinks.

Microsoft engineers presented the new SoC and apparently did a lot of the layout (or perhaps all of it) themselves. Given the unique requirement of consoles—the system must perform exactly like the original Xbox 360—

So by simply putting the same CPU and GPU on the same die the following happened:

Compared to the discrete, 90nm CPU/GPU combo in the original 360 from 2005, the new 45nm SoC draws over 60 percent less power and reduces the total silicon area by over 50 percent. The power and die area savings mean that Microsoft can do with a single fan and heatsink what previously required multiple heatsinks and fans.

And the system actually became more powerful. They had to slow it down:

It would have been easier and more natural to just connect the CPU and GPU with a high-bandwidth, low-latency internal connection, but that would have made the new SoC faster in some respects than the older systems, and that's not allowed. So they had to introduce this separate module onto the chip that could actually add latency between the CPU and GPU blocks, and generally behave like an off-die FSB.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...ntel-amd-to-market-with-cpugpu-combo-chip.ars

SoC means cheaper, cooler, quieter.
All the hallmarks that Nintendo tries to achieve with their consoles.

The Wii U’s CPU will also share the same 45nm-sized features as the 360′s Xenon processor in the 360 S and the PS3′s Cell since the launch of the PS3 Slim. Does there ever come a point where you wonder whether the games are the only difference?

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/06/08/ibm-on-wii-us-cpu/

There have been rumors that Nintendo might use a 28nm GPU, is that to fit it on the same die?



.

 

[Übermatik]

Right, so I altered the controller myself, trying to think what nintendo might do to reduce size, weight, and clutter on the face of the device. I've altered the speakers out of personal preference, so just ignore them... oh, and could help doing a black version of the controller, albeit a quick and sketchy attempt.
Comparison pic at the side.

 

[bgassassin]

I'm down for black, but I want them to make a chrome Wii U.

Same here. I can't see Nintendo releasing as late as September. July/August release would be appropriate, enough time to prepare for seasonal releases etc too.
Maybe they'll do an Apple: "And it's ready to buy, right now!"

My initial prediction was June, either during or the week after E3. I'll still stick with that.

I wouldn't doubt it considering the amount of time we're looking at. Just from the time of the 01 leak we'd be looking at 13-14 months between then and a release so that would sound like enough time to get all that together. I definitely don't expect it to be to far after E3.

Yeah I heard that before too and again it makes no sense why they didn't show those games or have them playable. Did they look worse than the tech demos? Did they not properly show or take advantage of the controller? Something must have spooked them to the point that they decided against it.

Its a shame because without the software all they showed was the box and controller which while intriguing left more questions than answers.

Just doing a C&P of one of my posts. Apparently the games weren't visually separated enough from PS360 so they decided not to show them. I don't know what they expected on such a short window. They could have just looked at Xbox 360's E3 debut to know that was a bad idea with some of the games they showed back then.

Speculating about the WiiU...

Based on things I read after you mentioned it awhile back, I think the SoP might be more plausible. I even saw older articles of some people from IBM talking up the benefits of SoP over an SoC.

 

[AzaK]

How can you be in the industry for so long and have planned both terrible and great E3 presentations and not realize that if you tease a console, build the hype, and then only show tech demos that people be disappointed?

Simple, Nintendo don't live in the same dimension as us, they live in the Nintendo dimension. A bubble that gives them a completely different perception to the world around them compared to everyone else on the planet.

Need proof? Wii Music - I rest my case.

 

[Nessus]

I hope they pack a damned Wiimote and nunchuck in there for third party support. Losing the Wiimote is certainly not going to make me buy their console on day one.

Agreed.

Wii Motion+ and nunchuck pack-in, otherwise it'll see no support.

That way, right out of the box you can have multiplayer games, and even if we might be disappointed by the extreme likelihood that the system will only support one tablet controller at a time, asymmetrical gameplay with one tablet and one Wii Motion + and nunchuck combo has huge potential.

 

[shadyspace]

Agreed.

Wii Motion+ and nunchuck pack-in, otherwise it'll see no support.

That way, right out of the box you can have multiplayer games, and even if we might be disappointed by the extreme likelihood that the system will only support one tablet controller at a time, asymmetrical gameplay with one tablet and one Wii Motion + and nunchuck combo has huge potential.

Hmm, interesting. Has there ever been a console that launched with two controllers out of the box?

 

[Man God]

NES in the US launched with THREE.

 

[guek]

Hmm, interesting. Has there ever been a console that launched with two controllers out of the box?

I don't think so. I could definitely see nintendo doing it though. Wiimote+ and nunchucks are cheap as hell to produce now and would substantially increase the perceived value of the box. Hey, if it helps them get away with a $350 price tag so they can beef up the console a bit more, I'm all for it.

edit:

NES in the US launched with THREE.

oh yeeeeeeeeeeah....

 

[shadyspace]

NES in the US launched with THREE.

Standard pad, R.O.B. and...?

 

[Man God]

Standard pad, R.O.B. and...?

Zapper, I believe. Unless that came later. Pretty sure its in one of the initial launches.

 

[Gianni Merryman]

Oh 100% agreed. Problem is I don't get how they DID NOT realize this when they revealed the system. They seemed almost shocked to see the mixed to down right negative reactions. How can you be in the industry for so long and have planned both terrible and great E3 presentations and not realize that if you tease a console, build the hype, and then only show tech demos that people be disappointed? Whenever that next showing is it has to show some killer software from both 1st and 3rd parties.



Yeah I heard that before too and again it makes no sense why they didn't show those games or have them playable. Did they look worse than the tech demos? Did they not properly show or take advantage of the controller? Something must have spooked them to the point that they decided against it.

Its a shame because without the software all they showed was the box and controller which while intriguing left more questions than answers.

I am truly convinced that they could not do otherwise: they were far behind in the works and had no real games for Wii U to show aside from a couple of tech-demos - speaking of which, anybody yet has seen any footage of that impressive secretive "guests-list-only" Tokyo tech-demo? - but still they had to arouse the audience attention to show Nintendo has something new coming soon.

I'm looking foward as well to see some real games footage and they could have delivered much better if they had showed a little teaser, yet I am aware that both 1st and 3rd parties had nothing to show last June, certainly we are supposed to see something more by next E3.

 

[guek]

I'm convinced that nintendo's goal for this year's E3 was introducing the Wii U to developers/publishers, not consumers or press.

 

[Gianni Merryman]

Standard pad, R.O.B. and...?

Was is there a sort of Duck hunt bundle, do I recollect right?

 

[WonderbreadUSA]

Actually, both the NES and SNES came with two controllers. The NES came in three different bundles, all of which came with 2 standard controllers. You can read more about that here.
Also, the SNES Super Set came with 2 controllers as well. Unfortunately there is no information about the SNES bundles on it's wiki page, but you can google it and see pics of the box and an old tv commercial from '93.

 

[snesfreak]

Yep, I had the Super Set.

 

[WonderbreadUSA]

Yep, I had the Super Set.

So did I, that's why I remembered. I had the NES Action Set too.

 

[snesfreak]

I don't remember which NES set I had, but I think Spy Vs. Spy was the first game we got.
Man I'm old.

 

[SolarPowered]

NES in the US launched with THREE.

No wonder the NES was so legendary.

goddamn

 

[Gianni Merryman]

No wonder the NES was so legendary.

goddamn

Uh, this discussion has made me realise that back then part of the appeal to the mass-market of NES was maybe due to the Zapper bundled in it - that was a smart move - and indeed I see that something very similar happened recently with the Wii-mote, so nothing unprecedented really.

 

[AceBandage]

No wonder the NES was so legendary.

goddamn

They didn't have a choice.
Coming out after the crash, they had to give it as much value as possible.

 

[Majine]

They have to do something with the console itself, it is one of the most boring console designs ever.

Will anything Nintendo ever look as good as the Gamecube?

 

[guek]

They have to do something with the console itself, it is one of the most boring console designs ever.

Will anything Nintendo ever look as good as the Gamecube?

I don't mind the design, but I really really think they need to make it look more distinct from the wii. Just making it a different color would be enough.

 

[Majine]

I don't mind the design, but I really really think they need to make it look more distinct from the wii. Just making it a different color would be enough.

The shape of it is just... wierd. Make a more compact and chubby design instead.

 

[guek]

needs racing stripes

maybe some flame decals

 

[Gianni Merryman]

If Wii U is going to be that much powerful as it's rumoured to be, I am afraid it may be much bigger than Wii, anyway I fear Nintendo may be always tending to be conservative with the shape of the new console - trying to remind the already popular Wii - to the same extent that 3DS is looking just like DSi.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Needs more purple

Hmm, interesting. Has there ever been a console that launched with two controllers out of the box?

The Atari 2600 launched with *4* controllers - two joysticks, two paddles. At the other extreme, not only did the Turbografx-16 only ship with one controller, it only shipped with one controller PORT. Required an accessory to enable two player games.

 

[WonderbreadUSA]

I'm not too crazy about that design either. I was really excited about the pre-E3 rumor of it looking like a modern SNES. It's a shame that never happened. If they do stick with this design, I hope that the blue light in the optical drive makes a comeback.

 

[wsippel]

I actually really like the design. It's to the point.

 

[Majine]

If Wii U is going to be that much powerful as it's rumoured to be, I am afraid it may be much bigger than Wii, anyway I fear Nintendo may be always tending to be conservative with the shape of the new console - trying to remind the already popular Wii - to the same extent that 3DS is looking just like DSi.

I have no problem with it being bigger than the Wii, It's just that with the Wii (and even more so, The Gamecube) there seemed to be a general design philosophy that they went with. This just looks like they made a case for all the innards they have.

Still hoping for a change.

 

[Mastperf]

My main complaint with the circle pad on the 3ds was the lack of grip. When my hand would sweat my finger would slip off the pad when it was relaxed. I would start getting cramps from having to apply pressure. The WiiU pad looks to be shaped more comfortably so I think it should be a pretty big improvement.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Speculating about the WiiU...

Very informative, thanks for that info.

Based on things I read after you mentioned it awhile back, I think the SoP might be more plausible. I even saw older articles of some people from IBM talking up the benefits of SoP over an SoC.

What are the benefits of SoP over SoC? Higher thru put and less latency?

Edit - Would the SoP be just for the tablet controller?

 

[TunaLover]

Wii U will be use the Wiimote + nunchuk for multiplayer gaming, it makes sense they use the name "Wii" on "Wii U", after all Wii controllers will be basically obligatory.

 

[Gianni Merryman]

Still hoping for a change.

I understant that showed at E3 was no much more than an empty shell to put into some temporary motherboard-GPU stuff to run the tech-demos - so I don't see the definitive Wii U necessarily looking like that, it may be possibly very different as far as we know.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I want a transparent Wii-U

 

[TunaLover]

I want a transparent Wii-U

Pikmins are shy creatures, I don´t know if they will feel comfortable if you see them during they work.

 

[revolverjgw]

I want a transparent Wii-U

I also want to bring back the 90's

 

[SolarPowered]

They didn't have a choice.
Coming out after the crash, they had to give it as much value as possible.

Yeah, those were different times.

 

[Gianni Merryman]

I want a transparent Wii-U

It would be cool indeed with LEDs - we all know how nice it looks the glowing blue light in the Wii's DVD drive - cables and stuff, but I can't see this happening, I reckon it's more of a "geek" thingy than a mass-market oriented console.

 

[FHIZ]

Am I the only person who greatly prefers slide pads over analogue sticks? I've never ever liked analogue sticks that much, I think.

If they're anything like the 3DS's, I'm really not going to enjoy it. If my hands get sweaty, thumb slips off pretty quickly due to there being nothing but opposite tension with no leverage. If they put some rubber or something to help grip, it would be better.

 

[AzaK]

If they're anything like the 3DS's, I'm really not going to enjoy it. If my hands get sweaty, thumb slips off pretty quickly due to there being nothing but opposite tension with no leverage. If they put some rubber or something to help grip, it would be better.

Definitely needs more grip. The 3DS ones are broken if you play longer than 5 minutes.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I also want to bring back the 90's

Fuck yea

 

[dacuk]

Definitely needs more grip. The 3DS ones are broken if you play longer than 5 minutes.

Somewhat related to this topic:

http://kotaku.com/5845746/heres-the-3ds-hacked-and-running-a-3ds-game

Man, I looked all over NoA website, but they do not have a form to report this kind of products yet.

 

[Codeblue]

I like that they went with flat pads and put them on top of the buttons. This might be the first dual analog controller where you can control your character and camera while also having access to the face buttons and shoulder buttons without having to deform your hand. An analog stick would have raised the thumb too much so the center of your thumb wouldn't be able to push buttons. I think it has the potential to be the first dual analog set up that isn't completely retarded.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They have to do something with the console itself, it is one of the most boring console designs ever.

In a market that's been dominated by Black Rectangular Prism, White Rectangular Prism, and Gray Rectangular Prism, I don't think this is something they'll lose much sleep over.

 

[bgassassin]

What are the benefits of SoP over SoC? Higher thru put and less latency?

Edit - Would the SoP be just for the tablet controller?

No that would be for the console. I'm far from being very knowledgeable on the subject, but yes from the things I had seen you are correct. There's also supposed to be cost and power benefits to it also. Even though there is a System in Package, IBM seemed to be big on the SoP so an SiP would be eliminated in the idea. The reason for this as MDX pointed out was the press release said "package". Just for reference Hollywood, RSX, and Xenos were all considered multi-chip modules.

Here is the post I found of MDX's when he brought up the idea of an SoP, though he wasn't including the GPU in that one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29971656&postcount=5142

Considering how one guy from IBM talked up the SoP over the SoC, how close IBM and AMD have been in the past, and Nintendo's need to keep power and cost as low as possible would make me assume it's a possibility.