Nuclear Muffin
Banned
EatChildren said:
Well, apparently, Microsoft haven't even sent out the first iteration of the dev kit yet...
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/next-generation-arrive-2012
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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Well, apparently, Microsoft haven't even sent out the first iteration of the dev kit yet...
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/next-generation-arrive-2012
TheNatural
My Member!
So all the rumors of the next XBox now coming in late 2012, it's why I was questioning why Nintendo showed such an unready Wii U presence at E3. It basically put the competitors on alert that they're coming out, and now they sped up their process to get out on time.
So now, Wii U could come out at the same time as the next XBox, possibly with a lot less power. The element of surprise is now gone. They should have waited until there was something substantial to show off and then do it, not just push something out to meet an E3 deadline.
So now, Wii U could come out at the same time as the next XBox, possibly with a lot less power. The element of surprise is now gone. They should have waited until there was something substantial to show off and then do it, not just push something out to meet an E3 deadline.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Nuclear Muffin said:
Which is fine, hence working with target specs on custom kits, which is usually how these things start. It's not like a devkit shows up and that's the first word you hear of what kind of specs you'll be looking at.
lwilliams3
Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Good post, and I agree that could be a possibility. There may be alot of dissappointed developers when the nextbox and PS4 also does not match their expectations.
God, it's Wii all over again! Guys, it's over. Wii U will be the Wii of next-gen, not the PS2. It'll get slightly better multiplat support than Wii, but not much. You'll still be forced to buy another console, and only 1-2 good games will release for it every year. It'll get even less exclusives than Wii due to higher development costs and the fact that it'll probably sell 50-75% of what Wii did. You're just setting yourselves up for disappointment by staying in denial. Expect a console ~50% more powerful than the current gen to avoid disappointment, and be happy that Nintendo's even going that far instead of just making a Wii with HD output. If it turns out to be more than that, you'll be excited if you keep your expectations low. Keeping them low will be good no matter what. You can either risk being disappointed, or ensure that you'll be happy. What sounds better?
bgassassin
Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
Sounded more like Ubisoft is working with an Alpha kit and are waiting for the next version that better represents what will be in the final console.
Luckyman said:
Have what? A comment based on what was originally thought of about Wii U? Says nothing about how it will compare to the other new consoles.
bgassassin
Member
daCuk said:
And games possibly selling at $70 (at least) to make up for that.
Luckyman said:
If rumors are true about the Wii-U, yes it can be a friendly home for up-ports of current HD gen games, or an equally friendly home for downports of the new HD twins. There shouldn't be any reason to recreate a game from the ground up like what is necessary if you really want the next Assassin's Creed on the Wii.
TwilightPrincess
Member
EatChildren said:
Only if you assume that everyone (every team) is allready involved in PS4Loop development. Don´t think it is naturally given, that everyone has these insights, like with wiiu.... Leaving Chopper out of this, i highly doubt, that early wiiU comments and comparings were based on facts from Loop Specsheets... some developers you mentioned even said, that it are assumptions, like the "gap-step" one. ID believed in 10 times+ faster for next gen, because thats where pcs are/were. Perhaps Chopper can chat with his friend about this issue and clear things up a little bit.
WiiU could be 3 to 4 times stronger and more modern, you could deny it is next gen. But what happens if Loop is only twice as strong? Someone from Epic (?) meant, that WiiU isn´t late, he said it is to early.... Why would you say this? You would if you thought, Next Gen MS System is years away......
Right, but that doesn't equate to just wanting loads of 360/PS3 ports? Surely they would be looking to follow the Wii's current path of predominantly having content that the others are unable to emulate, but just having it with HD graphics? I'd have thought most ports would come from the next gen consoles, rather than the current ones.
And yes, if every game is going to have a budget of tens of millions of dollars a heck of a lot of companies are gonna go under. Possibly more so than in this gen.
Zoramon089
Banned
snesfreak said:
Lol, yeah at that point you might want to reevaluate yourself and your posts
TheNatural
My Member!
BurntPork said:
I think the difference is there is going to be more games available for Wii U if it's just midway between 360 and PS3, because the 360 and PS3 have huge user bases and those consoles aren't going to be completely abandoned right off the start like last gen. Wii got a little PS2 level release porting, but the PS2 was basically dead for new releases and XBox and Gamecube WERE dead. Sony may not have a PS4 until late 2013 or later, PS3 will be supported and 360 still sells great and will be supported.
dacuk
Member
King_Moc said:
Ports are cheaper, less-risk options to get more revenue, and re-using assets from other platforms to create other versions could guarantee that, at least, WiiU will not be as third-party-support starved as its predecessor.
For me, next gen will be again a game of 2 consoles: either PS4 or next Xbox for third party games, and WiiU for Nintendo games and the ocassional 3rd party gem or upgraded downport.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
considering iwata is on the hot seat they better hook some shit up knameanJavier said:
Yeah, but no one will buy Wii U for ports of games on consoles they already have. Nintendo really had the potential to be the cheap next-gen console. Choosing to be an expensive current-gen console could backfire.TheNatural said:
They think I'm trying to get a tag.Javier said:
Zoramon089
Banned
BurntPork said:
Which we don't know is the case...
bgassassin
Member
lherre said:I always forgot the internal devkits only for nintendo studios(the first ones or "Version 0"), this is why is difficult to count sometimes XD.
Revisiting this discussion, which version was reportedly underclocked?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
BurntPork said:
Over 900 posts in a thread for a console you won't buy at launch? Right.
Forsaken82
Member
King_Moc said:
Amazing how people already forget that the Wii U is more than just an HD system...
Well, I guess Nintendo knows they dropped the ball regarding HD support. Now I believe there are two options:
1) Nintendo makes a system considerably stronger that current gen consoles. This would assure them to a certain degree third party support that they are sorely lacking. Wii has basically a whole different market to it and that market is crashing, its different from anything seen before. Grandmas playing videogames? Wut? I believe the hardcore never fully adopted the Wii, except for Nintendo's own titles and even those didn't sell gangbusters. Hardcore/Mainstream gamers (let's separate Casual from Mainstream) are the ones who bring in the cash. They buy the CODs, the AssCreeds, the GeoWs, etc. Nintendo won't want to miss this demographic this time, at least capture a chunk of it and continue their Casual strategy. For this they need a system strong enough to at least hang out with the Loop and Ps4.
2) They do what seems logical and most expect... Wii 1.5? Wii HD? Just powered up to current gen standards. Everything points out to this, and I think one of the reasons Nintendo is going this way is because of their inhouse development houses: From SD resolutions, to little shaders, to very basic geometry, to a full blown 1080P, complex shaders, even more complex geometry that the Loop and PS4 should have.... That's a shock. Games would be delayed, cost a lot to Nintendo, etc. I believe that's another reason to fully believe the WiiU won't be more than a HD upgrade with a new controller.
I fully expect them to rename the WiiU as well. They must.
1) Nintendo makes a system considerably stronger that current gen consoles. This would assure them to a certain degree third party support that they are sorely lacking. Wii has basically a whole different market to it and that market is crashing, its different from anything seen before. Grandmas playing videogames? Wut? I believe the hardcore never fully adopted the Wii, except for Nintendo's own titles and even those didn't sell gangbusters. Hardcore/Mainstream gamers (let's separate Casual from Mainstream) are the ones who bring in the cash. They buy the CODs, the AssCreeds, the GeoWs, etc. Nintendo won't want to miss this demographic this time, at least capture a chunk of it and continue their Casual strategy. For this they need a system strong enough to at least hang out with the Loop and Ps4.
2) They do what seems logical and most expect... Wii 1.5? Wii HD? Just powered up to current gen standards. Everything points out to this, and I think one of the reasons Nintendo is going this way is because of their inhouse development houses: From SD resolutions, to little shaders, to very basic geometry, to a full blown 1080P, complex shaders, even more complex geometry that the Loop and PS4 should have.... That's a shock. Games would be delayed, cost a lot to Nintendo, etc. I believe that's another reason to fully believe the WiiU won't be more than a HD upgrade with a new controller.
I fully expect them to rename the WiiU as well. They must.
Relix said:
What the hell?
Now see, this is another part where I'm confused, because Nintendo blew the fucking lid off profitability this generation, making more profit in one year than Sony made in ten and Microsoft made ever in games (but lol That's everybody here as long as you aren't billions in debt). Like $5billion in just 2008 which is the current record, Which means we only have two conclusions. 1. Hardcore/Mainstream gamers are not profitable, or 2. the Wii got the most Hardcore/Mainstream gamers.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
your conclusions are false. There is a 3rd) casual gamers are profitable.Deguello said:
But that third comes with a caveat, and that's the fact that casuals are fickle as fuck.
StreetsAhead
Member
Relix said:
An HD upgrade to the Wii? As in 'not more powerful than a Wii capable of producing 720p/1080p images'? Go look at the Killer Freaks video on Youtube. Your belief is wrong.
Deguello said:
I don't know how can anyone deny that the hardcore gamers didn't fully adopt the Wii. They were just not there, except for Nintendo fans who bought the console for... Nintendo games. You don't see your normal COD douchebag saying he loved Mario Galaxy on Wii. That barely happens. That's what I meant with the mainstream. Aside from MKWii, how well did the normal franchises sell? I don't have sales data on hand so I am talking out of my ass and perception on that one.
You have a point on the sales thing, but the problem is that Casual gamers eventually just get tired of the same old shit. Case in point... Nintendo for the past 18 months. Yes, they did spectacular at first, but the WiiU WILL NOT repeat the same success the Wii had. The casuals move to one thing to the other. Now you see Nintendo facing losses, yes mostly in part of the 3DS, but the 3DS makes for another case of what went wrong and what can wrong with WiiU. Of course Nintendo was quick to remedy the problem and it seems to be working out at least in Japan, so hopefully they can remedy the problems the WiiU is facing before its launch.
Console manufacturers lost money because of the high hardware costs, an alternative Nintendo seldom takes. Not because of the hardcore not buying games. Hell, throw a turd to the 360 fanbase and it will sell a few million copies.
StreetsAhead said:
I meant in the jump from SD to HD sense. We won't see the console comparing to the other ones not only for all the points everyone has mentioned, but because Nintendo's own in-house developers will face troubles.
By every account, at E3, developers had already Wii U dev kits (or demo units) that were already under the contains of a final(ish) for factor, which is really small, and was causing a plethora of overheating issues, so they needed to be underclocked.EatChildren said:
The Nextbox developers seem to be waiting for something remotely similar and so far they are working with PC parts. If we take the extremes: The current next box dev kit is rocking a (fully clocked) 6990 and Wii U an outdated 4770, the difference in power is roughly the same as between the Wii U and a 360.
-Pyromaniac- said:
He said hardcore gamers are "the ones who bring in the cash." Simply not true with actual data from this gen.
Like what do you mean by "normal?" Like Super Mario? Like New Super Mario Bros. selling 20 million+ ? Did Super Mario stop being "normal?" Smash Brothers? 10 million+? Most succesaful fighting game ever? Twilight Princess? 6 million+? Donkey Kong Country Returns? 5 million?
Did I miss a meeting where all of Nintendo's games on wii flopped? Or are we going to sacrifice Super Mario on the altar of keeping the retarded Hardcore/Casual divide going?
StreetsAhead
Member
Relix said:
Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by the 'jump from SD to HD'. That's just a resolution.
Nintendo's in-house developers will face troubles with what? Modern architecture/shaders? Sure, there'll be a learning curve, but let's not pretend that, as a company, they've been ignoring what the rest of the industry is doing. Monolith even stated they'd done HD/high graphical fidelity experiments in preparation and you can bet if Monolith has been working on stuff that other teams have been, too.
Relix said:
This argument is nonsense. Doesn't take extra knowledge to "fully utilize" the resources of a current high end GPU. Crank up the settings on a 360 port, like Crysis 2, and you can bring a 580 to its knees.
Target the next SM game at 720p and 30 fps. Now run it at 1080p at 60fps with 4xmsaa with higher accuracy infighting on a significantly more powerful system. Pretty much you just turned up "some flags".
-Pyromaniac-
Member
well that I agree with you, casuals obviously bring in more money (not from games though).Deguello said:
I still believe Kaz Hirai spoke best on the subject of catering to casuals versus catering to core gamers and all that jazz:
Casuals bring in the quick money, but they aren't reliable. If you don't luck out and hit lightning twice with them, they'll move on to the next random hot thing.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
EatChildren said:
Huh? Who is Chopper, and is this a WiiU or microsoft/sony rumor?
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm not doubting you but when did we get confirmations on these? I know that the Xbox dev kits are rumored to be using dual high end cards but when did we find out which cards were in which kits?Lonely1 said:
-Pyromaniac- said:
Well what DID they buy with their Wiis then? Sausage Biscuits?
Considering Sony bled more than half of their userbase this generation as well as every cent they made in video games, do you think Kaz Hirai's strategy has been successful or an abject failure in terms of goals stated or results exemplified?
Deguello said:
Damn they sold that much? I said I didn't have sales data on hand, and I just went by perception. Those are nice numbers though.
BurntPork said:
Yeah, yeah I know. But Nintendo devs will face what third party devs for HD consoles initially faced. Of course, now there's a lot of middleware, knowledge, workarounds, etc.
What I simply meant to say was that perhaps Nintendo isn't gonna go head to head with the other consoles for the sake of cost and dev time, which at the end of the day will limit third party offerings on the system and make the console run out of fuel like the Wii has been doing for a time now.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
kaz hirai is successful because he doesn't have to worry whether or not a lot of people will buy the PS4, same success or more is guaranteed since he followed through with that philosophy. Nintendo's Wii audience isn't assured to return for the wii-u.Deguello said:
Look no one is denying nintendo made a lot of money, no shit they did. That doesn't mean they are ballin now and forever. They need to refocus their priorities for the wii-u rather than gamble on the casual audience again. That's all I'm saying.
Saint Gregory
Member
Ha-ha, no I was just wondering since I would imagine that the 6990 is probably right but I never saw confirmation of that and I really doubt that the WiiU is still using a 4000 series based GPU when the 5000 series is so much more power efficient. That was probably just Nintendo being conservative with the kits.Lonely1 said:I'm just assuming an extreme case, and since I doubt MS/AMD sent "target specifications" based on a GTX 590. The 4770 part comes from the pre E3 Wii U rumors.
The question is: does it matter that the Wii U is underpowered?
Either this generation was based on luck/coincidence, or the success of the underpowerd Wii showed that it's not the graphics that matter anymore.
So if the Wii U ends up being less underpowered than the Wii this generation, and the outcome of this generation was du to the fact that graphics just doesn't matter as much anymore as they used to do 15 years ago, then it would mean that the "underpweredness" of the next Nintendo Console is even more irrelevant than now.
So instead of arguing about how powerfull or not the Wii U is going to end up to be, I think it's more interesting to think about how the games and the fun playing those games will be affected by the new Wii U concept AND what the likley fact of it being "underpowered" might have on the upcoming games?
What if the underpoweredness could be an advantage? Developers would be saved from unbearable developing cost, willing to undergo greater risks and thus creating more unike games rather than only sequels.
While everyone is thinking about the disadvantages, could there also be advantages for an underpowered system, based on information we've gathered from throughout this console generation??
Either this generation was based on luck/coincidence, or the success of the underpowerd Wii showed that it's not the graphics that matter anymore.
So if the Wii U ends up being less underpowered than the Wii this generation, and the outcome of this generation was du to the fact that graphics just doesn't matter as much anymore as they used to do 15 years ago, then it would mean that the "underpweredness" of the next Nintendo Console is even more irrelevant than now.
So instead of arguing about how powerfull or not the Wii U is going to end up to be, I think it's more interesting to think about how the games and the fun playing those games will be affected by the new Wii U concept AND what the likley fact of it being "underpowered" might have on the upcoming games?
What if the underpoweredness could be an advantage? Developers would be saved from unbearable developing cost, willing to undergo greater risks and thus creating more unike games rather than only sequels.
While everyone is thinking about the disadvantages, could there also be advantages for an underpowered system, based on information we've gathered from throughout this console generation??
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