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[Daschysta]

Damn they sold that much? I said I didn't have sales data on hand, and I just went by perception. Those are nice numbers though.



Yeah, yeah I know. But Nintendo devs will face what third party devs for HD consoles initially faced. Of course, now there's a lot of middleware, knowledge, workarounds, etc.

What I simply meant to say was that perhaps Nintendo isn't gonna go head to head with the other consoles for the sake of cost and dev time, which at the end of the day will limit third party offerings on the system and make the console run out of fuel like the Wii has been doing for a time now.

Nintendo isn't going to skimpon hardware for those reasons. Nintendo's internal developers have surely been preparing for the jump to HD for eons now, it isn't the same situation at all when the change-over was so sudden. They've had plenty of time.

Nintendo has also repeatedly admitted that lack of 3rd part support is one of the reasons the wii has lost so much momentum, not only have they been aggressive in courting 3rd parties to the 3DS, but i'm sure they realize that the system must be powerful enough at least to receive ports.

If the new x-box is truly coming holiday 2012 it would be difficult for microsoft to come out with a system that is SOOO much more powerful than wii-u to preclude ports from the system, even if the wii-u were only a marginal upgrade from current hardware.

Nintendo has also san wii, ever gimped hardware in any significant way, and has typically been the best graphically, or at least competitive.

The wii is the outlier in nintendo's history, all indications point to nintendo seeking to grow the consistent purchasing core gamers-market on their system. Nintendo was never seeking them with the wii, as they are with the wii-u.

I'm predicting people will be pleasantly suprised wit hthe wii-u from a technical perspective once full information or demos are available, and keep in mind, nintendo tends to add MORE oomph to their systems before they come out relative to dev-kits.

Nintendo surely also has some sort of idea of where the other next gen systems will end up spec-wise, especially if MS isn't too far off. It won't be hard to shoot for hardware that will not be left completely in the dust.

 

[BurntPork]

The question is: does it matter that the Wii U is underpowered?

Either this generation was based on luck/coincidence, or the success of the underpowerd Wii showed that it's not the graphics that matter anymore.

So if the Wii U ends up being less underpowered than the Wii this generation, and the outcome of this generation was du to the fact that graphics just doesn't matter as much anymore as they used to do 15 years ago, then it would mean that the "underpweredness" of the next Nintendo Console is even more irrelevant than now.

So instead of arguing about how powerfull or not the Wii U is going to end up to be, I think it's more interesting to think about how the games and the fun playing those games will be affected by the new Wii U concept AND what the likley fact of it being "underpowered" might have on the upcoming games?

What if the underpoweredness could be an advantage? Developers would be saved from unbearable developing cost, willing to undergo greater risks and thus creating more unike games rather than only sequels.

While everyone is thinking about the disadvantages, could there also be advantages for an underpowered system, based on information we've gathered from throughout this console generation??

The issue is that Nintendo is now competing against Apple for the casual audience. If Apple gets aggressive with Apple TV, it's over for Wii U. Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing is in the shitter, so the casuals won't even know that it's a new system. It would take a miracle for Wii U to come in first place this time.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Why would they specifically state the Wii U as 'underpowered' comparatively unless they had something to compare it to? They'd have to be literally making things up, or making brash assumptions. I have no reason to believe they're doing this.

You mean no reason other than the fact that developers do this all the time. Developers make just as many baseless, assumption filled comments as anyone else. Developers are just like anyone else who posts here and if you don't think that their biases, and assumptions come into play when making a comment, well that's just being very naive. Specially when they're making a non-traceable comment.

 

[Deguello]

Damn they sold that much? I said I didn't have sales data on hand, and I just went by perception. Those are nice numbers though.

Now armed with this knowledge, do you think it folly to devise strategies for Nintendo when your own basis for said strategy is founded on perception and not fact?

kaz hirai is successful because he doesn't have to worry whether or not a lot of people will buy the PS4, same success or more is guaranteed since he followed through with that philosophy.

Kaz Hirai doesn't have to worry about the PS4 selling? He's only head of SCE because Ken Kuta-whathisface thought he didn't have to worry about the PS3 selling. When the PS3 cuased SCE to bleed money he was tossed out on his ass. You bet your life Kaz Hirai worries about the PS4 selling.

Look no one is denying nintendo made a lot of money, no shit they did. That doesn't mean they are ballin now and forever.

Where did anybody say that? I said they made lots of money because apparently "casual" gamers were more profitable than "hardcore" gamers Considering Nintendo made record profits while for the rest of the industry there was a 4 year long bloodbath.

They need to refocus their priorities for the wii-u rather than gamble on the casual audience again. That's all I'm saying.

I think this is where we have a fundamental misunderstanding. See I'm operating under the idea that "casual" was just some kind of catch all label for "game I don't personally like." And this was cemented when some wanted to throw Super Mario under the bus of "hardcore progress." So I just don't see as much of a distinction as you do.

BTW what would Nintendo's "priorities" be? Making games in their franchises? They do that already, along with Wii stuff. What would Nintendo need to "refocus" on?

 

[Lonely1]

You mean no reason other than the fact that developers do this all the time. Developers make just as many baseless, assumption filled comments as anyone else. Developers are just like anyone else who posts here and if you don't think that their biases, and assumptions come into play when making a comment, well that's just being very naive. Specially when they're making a non-traceable comment.

"Vita CPU is half as powerful as a Ps3!" (And more powerful than Wii U's, if its indeed just Xenon*1.5).

 

[Daschysta]

If that is the case then I predict the difference between the Wii U and the Nextbox will be similar to the difference between the PS2 and Gamecube (and the PS4 will be similar to the xbox, a more powerful console on paper but which end up not showing in practice)

Bingo.

An actual huge leap would not only be non cost efficient, it would also be significantly harder to achieve.

The "eye test" is big, an it won't be nearly the problem for wii-u that it was for wii. I doubt MS or Sony are going to throw millions into the red for the mere tech wankery if it won't be anything the average consumer greatly notices or appreciates.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Well, I doubt that, if the Nextbox is indeed coming in 2012, it will rock something similar to a 6990.

Wait, what? Either I wrote something wrong or I'm not understanding you here because I was agreeing with you that the 6990 is what they're targeting. Unless it's the possibility that there's two 6990s in the kits that's throwing things off.

The issue is that Nintendo is now competing against Apple for the casual audience. If Apple gets aggressive with Apple TV, it's over for Wii U. Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing is in the shitter, so the casuals won't even know that it's a new system. It would take a miracle for Wii U to come in first place this time.

Dude, you're doing it... again.

 

[StreetsAhead]

While everyone is thinking about the disadvantages, could there also be advantages for an underpowered system, based on information we've gathered from throughout this console generation??

No, everyone knows that if pretending to be killing hundreds of people using large guns doesn't look as realistic as possible, nobody will buy the system.

 

[BurntPork]

Wait, what? Either I wrote something wrong or I'm not understanding you here because I was agreeing with you that the 6990 is what they're targeting. Unless it's the possibility that there's two 6990s in the kits that's throwing things off.

Dude, you're doing it... again.

It's true. All Apple has to do is say that Apple TV is outselling Wii U and the Apple faithful will believe that it's the better platform. I really think Nintendo's taking a huge risk going the casual route again.

 

[Deguello]

Dude, you're doing it... again.

Good gravy is he always like this?

 

[Azure J]

It's true. All Apple has to do is say that Apple TV is outselling Wii U and the Apple faithful will believe that it's the better platform. I really think Nintendo's taking a huge risk going the casual route again.

Seriously? -_-

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's true. All Apple has to do is say that Apple TV is outselling Wii U and the Apple faithful will believe that it's the better console. I really think Nintendo's taking a huge risk going the casual route again.

How many times has it been over for Nintendo now? I can remember when Sega, Sony and Microsoft all meant the end of Nintendo in gaming. Hasn't happened yet.

Good gravy is he always like this?

I can tell that you're new here, welcome

 

[Daschysta]

It's true. All Apple has to do is say that Apple TV is outselling Wii U and the Apple faithful will believe that it's the better console. I really think Nintendo's taking a huge risk going the casual route again.

As entertaining as your prognosticating is, the apple TV is the only apple product that has truly not done well, and who knows what its success would be if it were more game-centric.

Apples real appeal gaming wise is on the go small chunks. The "Doomed" talk is not only premature, but not grounded.

 

[BurntPork]

Seriously? -_-

Well, okay, it's not that simple. It affects the media more than the public, but then the media affects the public.

 

[Lonely1]

Wait, what? Either I wrote something wrong or I'm not understanding you here because I was agreeing with you that the 6990 is what they're targeting. Unless it's the possibility that there's two 6990s in the kits that's throwing things off.

Yeah. I don't see a (something as powerful as a) 6990 inside a 2012 console. We would be lucky to get a 580.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Wait, what? Either I wrote something wrong or I'm not understanding you here because I was agreeing with you that the 6990 is what they're targeting. Unless it's the possibility that there's two 6990s in the kits that's throwing things off.

Dude, you're doing it... again.

If the KiNeXtBox is coming in 2012 it's not going to have a 6990 in it. That thing sucks way too much electricity and puts out far far far too much heat to go into a console releasing next year.

 

[BurntPork]

As entertaining as your prognosticating is, the apple TV is the only apple product that has truly not done well, and who knows what its success would be if it were more game-centric.

Apples real appeal gaming wise is on the go small chunks. The "Doomed" talk is not only premature, but not grounded.

Apple hasn't been pushing Apple TV. However, if they do, it'll succeed. Apple's getting more serious about gaming, so Nintendo needs to avoid direct competition with them.

KiNeXtBox

This name makes me want to drop an OG XBox on a kitten.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Yeah. I don't see a (something as powerful as a) 6990 inside a 2012 console. We would be lucky to get a 580.

I don't know, I can't underestimate AMD. For its time the Xenos was out of this world. The power consumption for the console would be insane though.

If the KiNeXtBox is coming in 2012 it's not going to have a 6990 in it. That thing sucks way too much electricity and puts out far far far too much heat to go into a console releasing next year.

Yeah, that. That would totally discount the dual GPU dev kit rumor though. Why put two of any card in the kits if they're not at least targeting the 6990?

 

[AzaK]

It's true. All Apple has to do is say that Apple TV is outselling Wii U and the Apple faithful will believe that it's the better platform. I really think Nintendo's taking a huge risk going the casual route again.

I thought I followed this thread pretty closely, but I didn't see anything saying Nintendo is going the casual route again. If anything, all that Iwata has been saying is that they need to focus more on the core, and that Wii wasn't intended to be a casual machine but 3rd party support just wasn't there. Just because it's not going to be up-to-spec with the next-gen other two doesn't mean it's casual.

This time around Nintendo will attempt to do both. They will make a machine capable of ports of non-nintendo/western/dudebro/whatever hardcore titles (This is a MASSIVE improvement over Wii). But they are wrapping it also in a branding and controller that should appeal to the mass/casual market as well.

In fact, if anything Nintendo stand to take some of the market from iPad gaming. Their games will be better, they will integrate with a eco system (If online rumours are true), look better, have additional peripherals to work with (Balance board, Wii Motes) and generally be a more all-round gaming/family experience machine.

 

[EloquentM]

lurking has its advantages in this thread (for one I don't have to directly deal with the tom foolery of burntbacon). anyways I have nothing to add to the discussion that already hasn't been said but I am certainly intrigued with these new next box rumors and what it might mean for the wiiU

 

[Deguello]

If the KiNeXtBox is coming in 2012 it's not going to have a 6990 in it. That thing sucks way too much electricity and puts out far far far too much heat to go into a console releasing next year.

Speaking of which a 6990 is like $700 right now. IF MS wants to be the first company with a $1,000 console, they are free to try it.

 

[BurntPork]

I thought I followed this thread pretty closely, but I didn't see anything saying Nintendo is going the casual route again. If anything, all that Iwata has been saying is that they need to focus more on the core, and that Wii wasn't intended to be a casual machine but 3rd party support just wasn't there. Just because it's not going to be up-to-spec with the next-gen other two doesn't mean it's casual.

This time around Nintendo will attempt to do both. They will make a machine capable of ports of non-nintendo/western/dudebro/whatever hardcore titles (This is a MASSIVE improvement over Wii). But they are wrapping it also in a branding and controller that should appeal to the mass/casual market as well.

In fact, if anything Nintendo stand to take some of the market from iPad gaming. Their games will be better, they will integrate with a eco system (If online rumours are true), look better, have additional peripherals to work with (Balance board, Wii Motes) and generally be a more all-round gaming/family experience machine.

An underpowered console won't sell to the hardcore. Iwata's either lying or an idiot about to send a console out to die.

And no, not a single one of the current-gen ports will sell even one Wii U.

Also, iPad will surpass Wii U graphically in 2-3 years.

 

[Lonely1]

Yeah, that. That would totally discount the dual GPU dev kit rumor though. Why put two of any card in the kits if they're not at least targeting the 6990?

Well, the Ps3 dev kit had dual 7900s...

Also, iPad will surpass Wii U graphically in 2-3 years.

Yeah, no.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Well, the Ps3 dev kit had dual 7900s...

Did they? Wouldn't two of those have been more powerful than the RSX? That must have lead to some pissed of devs lol

One thing we can be sure of is that no one's worse at keeping secrets than MS so we'll know everything about the next Xbox before we get another hint of info about the WiiU.

 

[Plinko]

Also, iPad will surpass Wii U graphically in 2-3 years.

I thought you made a promise to stop saying crazy stuff.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[BurntPork]

2-3 years after Wii U launches assuming iPad 3 is on-par with..........................

Wait, what the fuck am I saying?

*eats some humble pie*

 

[Javier]

2-3 years after Wii U launches assuming iPad 3 is on-par with..........................

Wait, what the fuck am I saying?

*eats some humble pie*

Here you go.

Now go eat it over there and think about what you've done, MISTER!

 

[dacuk]

An underpowered console won't sell to the hardcore. Iwata's either lying or an idiot about to send a console out to die.

And no, not a single one of the current-gen ports will sell even one Wii U.

Also, iPad will surpass Wii U graphically in 2-3 years.

With double the WiiU price, surely.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I've been reading this thread for the past few pages....All I can say is, I hate the term casual, especially because it's a thinly veiled pejorative used by gamers that dislike other people's tasted because they're different. I used to rant a ton on this board about the term....It just won't go away.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I've been reading this thread for the past few pages....All I can say is, I hate the term casual, especially because it's a thinly veiled pejorative used by gamers that dislike other people's tasted because they're different. I used to rant a ton on this board about the term....It just won't go away.

or there are some people like me that use it to refer to an audience that isn't really into games as much as others.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Did they? Wouldn't two of those have been more powerful than the RSX? That must have lead to some pissed of devs lol

Didn't you read some of Kojima's post MGS4 vitriol aimed at Sony?

They actually intended to have light cast through fleshy objects like it does in reality. Then they got the final hardware, and half of the visual stuff his group was working on had to be completely thrown out.

 

[Deguello]

or there are some people like me that use it to refer to an audience that isn't really into games as much as others.

Care to quantify that? One of my "casual" buddies plays Wii Sports Bowling almost every day and was in a midnight launch line to get Wii Sports Resort when I told him that there was more bowling in it. I'd say he was as much into games as you or I, even if he doesn't hang out on message boards to talk about it all day.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

or there are some people like me that use it to refer to an audience that isn't really into games as much as others.

That's such a vague, arbitrary statement that it doesn't even mean anything. And everyone you argue with is going to have their own definition.

"Hardcore" is just as bad.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I don't know, I can't underestimate AMD. For its time the Xenos was out of this world. The power consumption for the console would be insane though.

Yeah, that. That would totally discount the dual GPU dev kit rumor though. Why put two of any card in the kits if they're not at least targeting the 6990?

Because that rumor probably wasn't based on any truth, or like as was mentioned it could be another PS3 like situation.

 

[goomba]

Amirite to assume that the power gap (if any) between WiiU and ps4/xb3 will be farrrrrr smaller than the grand canyon difference between the wii and ps3/xb360 ?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Amirite to assume that the power gap (if any) between WiiU and ps4/xb3 will be farrrrrr smaller than the grand canyon difference between the wii and ps3/xb360 ?

Completely right.

And if there's like 2 gigs in the WiiU it will get ports from the other two consoles as much as the PS3 got ports from the 360.

 

[AzaK]

An underpowered console won't sell to the hardcore. Iwata's either lying or an idiot about to send a console out to die.

If Nintendo put a quad GPU running at 8 petaflops with 32 cores and A terabyte of RAM the "hardcore" wouldn't buy it simply because it's white and doesn't have a standard looking controller - and it's "kiddy" Nintendo. The only thing that will get the audience that I assume you're meaning is if have some amazing exclusive 3rd party software to tempt people. That might get people over themselves.

And no, not a single one of the current-gen ports will sell even one Wii U.

There's numerous titles that, if ported to Wii U, would encourage me to get one. I also think that if Nintendo can do some casual marketting to parents around what the controller offers, combined with said ports, you could have a machine that both "Johnny the gamer kid" wants and mum does too.

Also, iPad will surpass Wii U graphically in 2-3 years.

And maybe the 720 and PS4 before their end of life too. Won't matter at all because they are different machines with different aims. Unless Nintendo just keep trying to release the uber casual 5 minute bites like Angry birds on Wii U, which they aren't.

However, I will say it'd get interesting for all parties if Apple release their next Apple TV/Uber box with an actual controller.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

That's such a vague, arbitrary statement that it doesn't even mean anything. And everyone you argue with is going to have their own definition.

"Hardcore" is just as bad.

it's not vague or arbitrary at all. Have you posted on GAF? Have you been outside to the real world and seen people who don't post on forums play games? The comparison is self evident. For us it's a serious hobby. For them it's a pass time.

We have more knowledge on game related subjects. We know about developers, the technology, publishers, timelines, rumours, e3, gdc, tgs, etc... they do not.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

it's not vague or arbitrary at all. Have you posted on GAF? Have you been outside to the real world and seen people who don't post on forums play games? The comparison is self evident. For us it's a serious hobby. For them it's a pass time.

We have more knowledge on game related subject. We know about developers, the technology, publishers, timelines, etc... they do not.

So you're only defining hardcore as forum dwellers? Because that's an absolutely miniscule portion of the gaming populace. To say that companies should focus on a small dedicated group over the overwhelming majority doesn't make sense.

How, may I ask, are Sony and MS' consoles more "hardcore" as believe you have been implying? Keep in mind that the system sellers for those consoles are just as "mainstream" as the Nintendo titles you have been railing on for being casual.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Didn't you read some of Kojima's post MGS4 vitriol aimed at Sony?

They actually intended to have light cast through fleshy objects like it does in reality. Then they got the final hardware, and half of the visual stuff his group was working on had to be completely thrown out.

I usually keep up with that kind of stuff but I honestly had no idea about it. In retrospect it explains so much though.

Because that rumor probably wasn't based on any truth, or like as was mentioned it could be another PS3 like situation.

I know things tend to change a lot during the course of developing a console but I'm starting to appreciate Nintendo's conservative approach of starting on the low end of the power scale and working up.

 

[Orayn]

If Nintendo put a quad GPU running at 8 petaflops with 32 cores and A terabyte of RAM the "hardcore" wouldn't buy it simply because it's white and doesn't have a standard looking controller - and it's "kiddy" Nintendo. The only thing that will get the audience that I assume you're meaning is if have some amazing exclusive 3rd party software to tempt people. That might get people over themselves.


There's numerous titles that, if ported to Wii U, would encourage me to get one. I also think that if Nintendo can do some casual marketting to parents around what the controller offers, combined with said ports, you could have a machine that both "Johnny the gamer kid" wants and mum does too.



And maybe the 720 and PS4 before their end of life too. Won't matter at all because they are different machines with different aims. Unless Nintendo just keep trying to release the uber casual 5 minute bites like Angry birds on Wii U, which they aren't.

However, I will say it'd get interesting for all parties if Apple release their next Apple TV/Uber box with an actual controller.

iPad integration might happen, but an actual controller would go against everything Apple stands for.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So you're only defining hardcore as forum dwellers? Because that's an absolutely miniscule portion of the gaming populace. To say that companies should focus on a small dedicated group over the overwhelming majority doesn't make sense.

How, may I ask, are Sony and MS' consoles more "hardcore" as believe you have been implying? Keep in mind that the system sellers for those consoles are just as "mainstream" as the Nintendo titles you have been railing on for being casual.

you have to be absolutely kidding me. I used people who post on forums as an example of people who follow the gaming industry more than others. That's what fucking defines the difference between the two. We actively follow the game industry, they do not. End of story. There are many more specifics that you can throw in there, but no need to get complicated. That's the basics of it.

Nintendo has lots of core games. I NEVER once denied that, I'd like it quoted immediately or stop making things up. Your choice. I was speaking purely on the audience they catered to most, and to me that is the casual audience. Sony and MS consoles are naturally able to offer more to the core audiences because they have a lot more third party support. That's the basis of that.

Nintendo has admitted that themselves. They hope to rectify it with the Wii-U. I hope they do as well. I'd love to get one.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Hasn't Apple said the main thing they were going to try to do with an Apple TV was get ride of the remote control. That they want to make something using Siri or something Siri like to completely take the controller out of the equation. I can't see them having that as their focus, and shipping the thing with a video game controller. Maybe I heard wrong though.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

you have to be absolutely kidding me. I used people who post on forums as an example of people who follow the gaming industry more than others. That's what fucking defines the difference between the two. We actively follow the game industry, they do not. End of story. There are many more specifics that you can throw in there, but no need to get complicated. That's the basics of it.

Nintendo has lots of core games. I NEVER once denied that, I'd like it quoted immediately or stop making things up. Your choice. I was speaking purely on the audience they catered to most, and to me that is the casual audience. Sony and MS consoles are naturally able to offer more to the core audiences because they have a lot more third party support. That's the basis of that.

Nintendo has admitted that themselves. They hope to rectify it with the Wii-U. I hope they do as well. I'd love to get one.

Can you define a core game?

I would agree that there are different levels of interest in people for gaming. That doesn't necessarily define the titles they buy nor their market value, though.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

I've been reading this thread for the past few pages....All I can say is, I hate the term casual, especially because it's a thinly veiled pejorative used by gamers that dislike other people's tasted because they're different. I used to rant a ton on this board about the term....It just won't go away.

Remember 10-15 years ago when the term "Casual" referred to people who only played Madden and "dudebro" m-rated games while looking down on anything that came out of Japan or had any sense of whimsy to it? My, how times have changed.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Remember 10-15 years ago when the term "Casual" referred to people who only played Madden and "dudebro" m-rated games while looking down on anything that came out of Japan or had any sense of whimsy to it? My, how times have changed.

Hell, just last gen it meant someone that played GTA.

 

[BurntPork]

Here you go.

Now go eat it over there and think about what you've done, MISTER!

Tastes like chicken

Spoiler

shit

.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Remember 10-15 years ago when the term "Casual" referred to people who only played Madden and "dudebro" m-rated games while looking down on anything that came out of Japan or had any sense of whimsy to it? My, how times have changed.

I'm pretty sure the only people who get upset about "casual" games succeeding are immature teenagers and adults with the mindsets of immature teenagers.

(aka most of the gaming community)