I thought that this was a general speculation thread.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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I thought that this was a general speculation thread.
I never said that games wont continue to look better than the current gen. Of course not! Extra power can always be put to good use, but that doesn't mean costs aren't going to become a very serious issue. Hell, costs ARE a very serious issue at the moment.
This is the main reason why I'm not too worried about the power.
As far as beautiful games go, look at the Wii, we've already got that. But the multiplats, the support, and the other stuff that comes with power (physics and whatnot) will make a difference.
As long as the WiiU doesn't feel left behind, it's cool.
Refreshment.01
Member
The point is, costs won't exacerbate as much as we witnessed in the 2 previous generations to the present one.
There are some practices at this stage that developers have adopted that they usually didnt in the past. Among them, most everyone by now is in the multi platform release mind set. There already small devs creating higher quality assets that can't be handled by present consoles (A4 or CDPR i.e.) Most developers are adopting one main engine for all projects, and there are ones that seem future proof like Cryengine 3.
Most of the games in the top tier of console graphics would look in another realm when supersampled to hell and running at 60 FPS with proper filtering.
You are right. It the situation might have been very different if the Wii came out first, especially considering that many launch games of the 360 looked like xbox games. The Wii probably would have gotten more third party support from the get go.
Fourth Storm
Member
Agreed. Games like Majora's Mask and Turok 2 made that RAM expansion for N64 worth it. It doesn't matter that all games don't support it or that not everyone has one. Just like Wii Motion+, Nintendo have a knack for packing those upgrades in with appropriate software. See Donkey Kong Country on SNES for what one great looking game can do for the perception of a console (and its effect in delaying people from upgrading to more powerful systems). Bottom line is if a handful of great games can utilize such an upgrade, it's fucking worth it!
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'm dead serious about doing my idea. Add a section for an expansion pack, then when it gets cheaper in 3 years Nintendo can release it and bam more RAM or whatever for all. N64 style.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Excuse my ignorance but when did the Rv770le part get confirmed to be in the devkit?
brain_stew
Member
It wasn't.
No way.
On my full hd tv, an upscaled sub hd game like MW2 looks significantly better than any 480p wii/ps2 game. Wii/ps2 games were unbearable, where as I wouldn't have noticed MW2's sub hd resolution if it hadn't been pointed out. I doubt wii u will have the same problems as wii with or without sub-hd
I love the idea. I have actually hoped for this type of thing ever since iOS started making waves. iOS devices get almost yearly refreshes and devs keep up with the pace and just support 3-4 generations back. It's even easier on a console because the OS could stay the same it's just the limits would change with your framerate/textures etc
I don't want every man and their dogs making upgrade parts like the PC. I want Nintendo to control it so that it works and gets their support - much like Apple. And keep it reasonable; 2 years down the track plug in some more RAM, or ideally, get an upgraded graphics subsystem. Even if it was only one mid cycle upgrade that'd be really nice. In fact, Nintendo might end up making MORE money. Mass consumers wouldn't care, but the millions of core tech heads like us would likely fork out a hundy or two more.
I just wonder, with the pace that iOS etc are moving whether console manufacturers need to try and do something like this. However I'm really not knowledgeable enough to know if this is actually practical because my understanding is that consoles essentially have everything soldered onto the motherboard and moving away from that would affect stability, price, heat, efficiency etc.
That kind of feeds into my point. Devs are going to pursue cheaper ways of netting competitive visuals without breaking the bank. We've seen the shift towards multi-platform strategies and the rise of the use of middleware, and that's only going to ramp up as time goes on...because costs elsewhere are rising. Devs are streamlining because they have to in order to survive...because costs are rising. But even though there are many ways to mitigate costs, high end assets will always be a time consuming and expensive endeavor. The point of what I was saying is that because costs are going to be an issue, we're going to see moves towards mitigating that, just as you've described. That ensures that if the Wii U is capable of getting a port of a major title, it'll get one for sure. It also ensures that the majority of developers wont try to go the full 9 yards when it comes to presentation...because they wont have to. The use of middleware engines and outsourced assets will produced phenomenal looking games with much less effort. I really do believe that most devs wont push the next xbox and playstation to their breaking points for a long time because that'll be unnecessary in order to fulfill development visions. Why bother? Games will look great regardless. At some point, it's going to become just be another extra unneeded cost. The overwhelming majority of concepts, be it visuals or gameplay, are possible on today's 2006-tech consoles. Come the next gen, there's going to be very little devs will want to do but can't.
Fourth Storm
Member
Not to drastically change the flow of the conversation, but I was just thinking of my two Wiis. My launch unit has the pixel issue (overheating GPU) and I decided to just get a new one (black) rather than go through the hassle of sending the console into Nintendo...
What are the chances Nintendo allow VC games from more than one system to carry over to Wii U? I really hope they get their heads out of their asses on the whole tied-to-system vs tied-to-account issue.
What are the chances Nintendo allow VC games from more than one system to carry over to Wii U? I really hope they get their heads out of their asses on the whole tied-to-system vs tied-to-account issue.
Holographic storage, maybe!
Sweeeeet. I'm an ambassador. I feel special.
TheDrowningMan
Member
3DS to DSi / 3DS transfer suggests that there's a good chance they will at least let you move your account over fairly painlessly.
I would advise keeping hold of your launch Wii in the event of some odd transfer system being required though.
Dreamwriter
Member
Spoken like someone who'se never played around with settings in an advanced PC game
You know what happens if you take FFXIV (some of the best graphics I've seen in any game), for example, and turn on Ambient Occlusion, Depth of Field, Texture Filtering, and render the whole thing at twice the resolution you are displaying? This is something that requires a monster of a PC to do and maintain a decent framerate, and the end result isn't really that much different than not doing it at all. These kind of effects can make things look subtly better, but they aren't going to make consumers go "Wow, that console is awesome! Who cares what exclusive games the other consoles have, I'm getting that one!"I dunno what you mean by "true HD", my argument was based on the Wii-U being able to do the best of what XBox 360 and PS3 currently can do, but at 1080p at 60fps. And stereoscopic 3D isn't going to become something that sways the mainstream until it can be done well without 3D glasses or $1000 TV's. As for sandbox games like GTA, what limitations? The only limitations there is how much money they want to spend on those games, those games have yet to be limited by technology.
Fourth Storm
Member
I shall stay optimistic, then! Thanks. All my Castlevania games are on my launch system, but I've got Cave Story and ALTTP on the new one!
Portugeezer
Member
I am scared for the Wii U. I think secretly Nintendo are shitting themselves. I hope they surprise us because in it's current state it's not convincing.
AceBandage
Banned
You mean in its current state where they basically showed nothing?
Lol I was actualy going to post the exact opposite of his post and say that I was scared because of the sheer amount of possibilities that Nintendo may have at their disposal for E3. I'm scared from excitement.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well brainy_soup pretty much confirmed what I thought at the outset.
Will be a gap, but a surmountable one.
Nothing that should stop it from receiving ports. The big Q now is how drastic of a difference? If the differences are literally 540p or what ever other resolution used to get a product to run smoothly on the 360 from a much more powerful PC, that's not going to be large enough for the masses to really care.
It's not enough for them to care now. And the power won't be the reason the system doesn't get games. More likely problem is just general lack of interest in those titles, by Nintendo system owners.
Will be a gap, but a surmountable one.
Nothing that should stop it from receiving ports. The big Q now is how drastic of a difference? If the differences are literally 540p or what ever other resolution used to get a product to run smoothly on the 360 from a much more powerful PC, that's not going to be large enough for the masses to really care.
It's not enough for them to care now. And the power won't be the reason the system doesn't get games. More likely problem is just general lack of interest in those titles, by Nintendo system owners.
Portugeezer
Member
My fear is that it won't sell very well. The casual audience are fickle people, Wii success means little when it comes to buying a Wii U.
Of course Nintendo will make great games as usual.
AceBandage
Banned
Which is why they said they were putting a much greater focus on the core audience with the Wii U.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
If Nintendo can get a fraction of Wii owners to buy a WiiU they'll be in a similar position to Sony or MS this gen. May not be market leaders, but should have a large enough market buying games. If said games are offered, at a similar featureset and price point of the competition.
Duckhuntdog
Member
Ugh... I can't believe that people in this thread haven't been able to get it through their heads that Nintendo is NOT using an off-the-shelf GPU in the final design. They are for early dev kits so developers can quickly port/get their games up and running, but the final part is going to be a custom derivative. Nintendo has never used a stock GPU in a console and that hasn't changed. Nintendo wants it to be easy for developers to port their games to the system while still having some additional features that satisfy their own needs and that developers can use should they choose to.
Seriously guys, chill out with the whole it's just a 770LE. It's a highly customized version.
Seriously guys, chill out with the whole it's just a 770LE. It's a highly customized version.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Nintendo wants all markets, that goes without saying. But what they NEED is the market that you know, actually buys games.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I don't think anyone would argue they've modified the 770 in there.
But as a starting point it is helpful in coming up with a basis.
And I see Nintendo's games looking better than they ever have before, and putting the company in question into a much more precarious position going forward. Budgets were already getting huge for them. This just exacerbates that issue.
I have little doubt if given a large choice in games the Wii market would have been much healthier than it ended up at. But the impossibility of porting to the system from the PC, 360, PS3 limited it's library substantially.
The casual demographic buys games. The best-selling Wii games sold like hotcakes to this group, and the last thing they should do is to reduce R&D for this audience, especially when MS is stepping it up big time.
Nintendo will be at CES, according to CNet: http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33363_1-57344520/what-will-ces-2012-have-in-store-for-gaming/?tag=mncol;txt
So, yes, we will definitely see Wii U before E3.
So, yes, we will definitely see Wii U before E3.
StreetsAhead
Member
Watch it be the demos from e3 and a logo for a single 1st party game.
lordfroakie
Member
This isnt GDC son!
StreetsAhead
Member
Watch it be a shorter recut of the reveal trailer and 2 seconds of bird demo?
When we talk about the customize GPU, its basically optimized gaming solution which I think will have all the juices required for next gen games. Especially if it supports latest version of opengl APIs + proprietary solutions.. edram will make alot of difference.
I think what makes difference in next gen will be the exclusive content and from processing/memory perspective more on AI, complex environment and stuff like that. graphically it may be somehow similar but not notable difference between all platforms.
WiiU, if launch earlier and got enough userbase which may be the base platforms for companies to work on and especially when Nintendo is more open to make more partnerships with 3rd parties, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the doors..
The only way PS4/Xbox3 could get enormous leap from WiiU if they get magic wind to make the gpu small and cool enough which we all know is not possible at current level. Else we may get many heating issues after launching. And there will another loop of losing tremendous amount of money by them by selling system lower price.. gosh.. they really love gamers than their businesses
The way expectations are going, I think people will be disappointed with Sony and Microsoft rather than Nintendo
I think what makes difference in next gen will be the exclusive content and from processing/memory perspective more on AI, complex environment and stuff like that. graphically it may be somehow similar but not notable difference between all platforms.
WiiU, if launch earlier and got enough userbase which may be the base platforms for companies to work on and especially when Nintendo is more open to make more partnerships with 3rd parties, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the doors..
The only way PS4/Xbox3 could get enormous leap from WiiU if they get magic wind to make the gpu small and cool enough which we all know is not possible at current level. Else we may get many heating issues after launching. And there will another loop of losing tremendous amount of money by them by selling system lower price.. gosh.. they really love gamers than their businesses
The way expectations are going, I think people will be disappointed with Sony and Microsoft rather than Nintendo
Nintendo at CES fits in perfectly with the thought that we'd get SOMETHING on Wii U to whet our appetites after the new year. I'm betting it won't be TOO much but another taste of it, maybe even a game announcement or two.
EDIT: Speculation, but that might be a good time to announce officially that you will be able to use multiple tablets.
EDIT: Speculation, but that might be a good time to announce officially that you will be able to use multiple tablets.
-WindYoshi-
Banned
So soon!
Well this happened last year;
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/24/nintendo-wont-be-exhibiting-at-ces-2011-after-all-will-conduct/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/24/nintendo-wont-be-exhibiting-at-ces-2011-after-all-will-conduct/
-WindYoshi-
Banned
I really hope we don't see this-
Assuming this is verified and found true, it's about goddamned time.
That's another reason I give it credence to be honest. We're fucking DUE.
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