However that is clearly different from the Wii.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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However that is clearly different from the Wii.
It was that Dutch guy Niels 't Hooft who first ran the rumors in 2004 about the N5 and two proposed specs:
It was Miyamoto who said that Nintendo dropped competing with Microsoft and Sony head on because they could not produce a real next-gen machine for I believe $349 or less. When the Xbox 360 and PS3 launched both Microsoft and Sony were apparently producing them for over $600/$700 and sold them for about $100 below production price.
One rumor that never died down was that IBM insisted that Nintendo would use some more modern off the shelf part they had picked for them. I believe it was rumored to be a 700mhz+ PowerPC based CPU but Nintendo wasn't interested and went with the overclocked GameCube instead.
Also Ubisoft's Project Katana(Red Steel) team said in an interview that Wii's performance would be in-line with a mainstream AMD Athlon 3000+ CPU that was popular at that time. That's also why the first Red Steel renders were believed to be actual in-game screenshots.
This is supposed to be "severely underpowered"?
The 3DS versions of the games shown here were heavily comprimised. Your arguement only holds water through the medium of screenshots. Run streetfighter 360 and 3DS back to back and you'll quickly learn just how big the gap really is.
*obviously not talking about RE because that game is not out yet, allthough i will point out that you chose the most flattering of screens, because i've seen some of the texture work in Revelation that's simply shockingly bad.*
No, they're acknowledging HD with the Wii U. I was just referring to Nintendo standing philosophy up until now.
I don't want to think that Nintendo is completely locked out of the "dudebro" market because I feel it has been gens since they truly attempted competing for them. I love Nintendo for their whimsy, but that same whimsy has led them to turn their back on what were at one point growing trends and are now considered gaming standards. Their attempts thus far to satisfy these hardcore gamers has largely been akin to tossing a dog an old bone. That is, until the Wii U.
Nintendo says it's targeting these gamers with the Wii U. I just hope they realize what it's going to take to do that.
Also, can we stop with the dudebro term? A more proper term would be popular gamers.
IrishNinja
Member
you can't be serious.
the cost of the last "leap" you're pointing at had a great deal more to do with sony wanting to spearhead blu-ray into more homes before the HD format war was won, and before BR diodes were near the price they should've thought of doing so. given that said strategy caused them what they did, i've no doubt they're gonna aim for something near bleeding tech, and then reign it in a lot lower. without that factor, the equation should look a lot different.
Shin Johnpv
Member
The ram they used was also QUITE expensive. While the bluray diode was the most expensive item inside it at launch, there were other expensive parts in there. Even with out Bluray the PS3 would have been an expensive machine. Perhaps not 599.99 us dollars expensive but definitely not as cheap as 299.99 either.
I question that. If anything, "popular gamers" is too ambiguous. It's about as exact as "mainstream gamers." I could make an argument that such a term refers to people who play games on their iPhones, or Nintendo platforms, or the 360, etc etc. It's a fluffy, unestablished term, and if one were to drop it into conversation, it would introduce potential for confusion.
"Dudebro," while not perfect, is pretty damn effective at conveying a concept, and language - always with a life of its own - has evolved to the point where it's already well-established. When someone uses the term (and point of emphasis: it's not automatically pejorative), everyone in the conversation knows the jist of what is meant.
As far as targeting that market goes, I think Nintendo realizes what it would take to have a chance. And I honestly wonder if they're serious about going for it, especially in light of Reggie's comments about the Wii-U costing more. I admit.. it'd be pretty damn thrilling to see Nintendo just try to go head-to-head against the other two for this crowd. Although it could carry potential for financial disaster..
**gah! apologies for the double-posting.. HylianSpaz, I guess..**
They can't do it as Nintendo. That crowd thinks of Nintendo as the kids' gaming company, and noting short of dropping their name and all existing franchises will change that, and that's questionable. At this point, that crowd won't even look at Nintendo products. They could make the best shooter with the best campaign and online there is, and the CoD and Halo crowd won't even consider buying a Nintendo console for it. It's too late. That ship sailed over a decade ago. That crowd isn't fickle like the "non-gamers" are. They won't change their minds. The best that Nintendo can do is court third-parties and try to make Wii U the only system Nintendo fans need. For that, they need online and a powerful system. Trying to make a bunch of "mature" games won't attract new fans.
IrishNinja
Member
counterpoint: by the #'s, an awful lot of "mature"/dudebros bought wii's, though.
i know why you bought a wii, sir.
Fourth Storm
Member
Impossible. A dudebro, by definition, is one who lacks a Wii.
... For their families. They won't even consider buying a Wii U for "serious" games.
In fact, if Wii U were to be the only next-gen console shown at E3 and it had incredible graphics, I'd bet that most of GAF would just be "If Wii U can do this, imagine what the real next-consoles can do!" and they still wouldn't care.
Refreshment.01
Member
IN comparison to Vita and some of the new smart phones? Definetly.
And wow you kick it up to heavens when comparing a PSP to N64 class hardware, DreamWiter screen name suits you really well. I don't want to offend, but those 2 comparisons were, just hyperbolic on steroids.
And both PSX and PS2 were released a lot earlier than the Nintendo counter parts, but didn't look a generation behind.
That waspart of the magic sauce for Sony achieving number 1, release your console first and remain competitive.
IrishNinja
Member
oh yeah, that's waiting to happen. if any WU thread makes it 10 posts deep without that comment, i'd be amazed/assume it was a timezone thing somehow.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
If Square made a Nier sequel/prequel only for the Wii-U I'd get it day one no questions.
/random fantasy
/random fantasy
I think that the best that Nintendo can hope for is that large numbers from that crowd will buy the system as an accessory to their other console.
But therein exists another trap: in the event that UberThirdParty releases their Big Title for NextBox and WiiU, these gamers may revert to their old habit of purchasing the title on the NextBox - unless Nintendo has gone all-in on their console's specs and features such that it's worth the gamers' while to pick the WiiU version over the others. Otherwise, UberThirdParty (and others) will then learn that their efforts don't sell well again on Nintendo platforms, and we'll see the current pattern of favoritism for other console(s) continue.
bgassassin
Member
Wii U one of Yahoo's 16 most anticipated tech items in 2012.
http://news.yahoo.com/16-most-anticipated-tech-products-of-2012-20111222.html
Pretty good "advertisement" since the controller is shown on Yahoo's front page and feature prominently in the article.
http://news.yahoo.com/16-most-anticipated-tech-products-of-2012-20111222.html
Pretty good "advertisement" since the controller is shown on Yahoo's front page and feature prominently in the article.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
lol I like how most of that list is apple products, one which doesn't even and probably wont exist.
You're absolutely right. It's just that "dudebro" is such a mocking term. People use it dismissively, like that crowd isn't worth paying attention to. I don't typically play the games that are dudebro popular, but that doesn't mean I dismiss the fact that this demographic can make a game sell into the millions in its first week, while the darling Skyward Sword only managed around 600k. You'd be kidding yourself if Nintendo didn't want some of that pie.
Maybe I'm more of an optimist than I thought.
Of course gamebros wouldn't flock to Nintendo overnight. But if Nintendo dedicated themselves to putting out consistent hardware and software that appealed to more than just Nintendo fans, eventually they'd come around. The thing is, it's been so long since Nintendo's made a dedicated play for this market, it's impossible to say that they are definitely shut out.
I just want Nintendo to live up to their potential. I'd really love for Nintendo to stop using their unparalleled ability to innovate as a crutch. If they delivered all-around good products that kept up with industry trends and used their innovations as their ace up their sleeve, they'd be able to compete with just about anyone.
Yes, and the HD twins have been underpowered compared to my PC for yèàrs. The Vita is also underpowered compared to my laptop.
The 3DS just is a different platform than the Vita, they both have a different place in the market even though they are fighting for the same buck. There will always be newer and more powerful hardware around the corner. That doesn't make the rest underpowered per se. If in a couple of months a newer and more expensive, rediculously powerful portable is released, that doesn't make the vita underpowered. The 3DS is fine, they just overpriced it... severely. In lack of a more fitting analogy, it's like a small xbox (one). It does some things better, it does some things worse. It's not underpowered in light of what is to be expected of a portable in todays market, which isn't to say it's cutting edge. Ultimately, it's a very subjective matter.
You're absolutely right. It's just that "dudebro" is such a mocking term. People use it dismissively, like that crowd isn't worth paying attention to. I don't typically play the games that are dudebro popular, but that doesn't mean I dismiss the fact that this demographic can make a game sell into the millions in its first week, while the darling Skyward Sword only managed around 600k. You'd be kidding yourself if Nintendo didn't want some of that pie.
Maybe I'm more of an optimist than I thought.
Of course gamebros wouldn't flock to Nintendo overnight. But if Nintendo dedicated themselves to putting out consistent hardware and software that appealed to more than just Nintendo fans, eventually they'd come around. The thing is, it's been so long since Nintendo's made a dedicated play for this market, it's impossible to say that they are definitely shut out.
I just want Nintendo to live up to their potential. I'd really love for Nintendo to stop using their unparalleled ability to innovate as a crutch. If they delivered all-around good products that kept up with industry trends and used their innovations as their ace up their sleeve, they'd be able to compete with just about anyone.
Nintendo's incapable of delivering the hardware they want. Sony and MS are in this market to help push their other consumer products and services, so they can afford the losses to put out super hardware if it gets them into homes. Nintendo needs to be able to make money, so they can't compete and they'll always be significantly behind from this point forward. There's nothing they can do about it. The only way Nintendo can sell to that audience is to go third-party and put the types of games they want on platforms that give them what they want. There's no way around it unless they choose to blow away their war chest.
AceBandage
Banned
Oh lord.
The "Nintendo will never be able to compete on power" schtick again...
The "Nintendo will never be able to compete on power" schtick again...
Hero of Legend
Member
I do wonder how things would've gone if Yamauchi was still in charge. His last console was the GC and that was when Nintendo weren't afraid to show their big guns in specs.
Then again, he was the main cause of 3rd-parties bailing wasn't he? And didn't he once say that originally they had no intention on making any more consoles and would just focus on new concepts for the GC like new controllers? I swear I read that was back around 2004 or something, perhaps I imagined it?
Then again, he was the main cause of 3rd-parties bailing wasn't he? And didn't he once say that originally they had no intention on making any more consoles and would just focus on new concepts for the GC like new controllers? I swear I read that was back around 2004 or something, perhaps I imagined it?
AceBandage
Banned
We wouldn't have Xenoblade, Sin and Punishment 2 or Super Mario Galaxy.
Also, the DS was his as much as Iwata's.
The Wii might have been more powerful, but it wouldn't have been the juggernaut it became,
It's completely logical. Don't believe me? Nintendo can't afford a $100+ loss on hardware, and they can't sell hardware that costs $100 more than the competition. It's logic. If you think I'm wrong, explain.
AceBandage
Banned
It's not about packing a system with the highest costing parts they can.
It's about making a system so unbelievably efficient that they can get amazing results.
This is how Nintendo has always operated. This is how each company should operate, honestly.
I'm confused by what you're saying here. Are you saying that they aren't capable of delivering solely on power? Because I don't think they'd need to. If power was the absolute name of the game, Xbox would have been market leader last gen and PS3 this gen.
When I say that I think Nintendo needs to compete, I'm saying that I feel Nintendo needs to attempt to deliver an all-around solid product. In my opinion, they haven't done this since the SNES. Nintendo has the chops, but they need to stop delivering consoles that excel in specific areas and are totally gimped in others.
That doesn't work when all three consoles use similar parts and architecture. What happened with GameCube can't happen again unless Nintendo finds someone better than AMD.
AceBandage
Banned
Actually, it's even more likely to happen now.
GPUs haven't been getting huge boosts, and low end parts can still be used in pretty much any gaming PC.
It's all about how you synchronize the pieces.
The XBox didn't get as much third-party support, most of the support it did get was PS2 ports with no visual upgrade, and PS2 had a monopoly on the market just from the strength of the PlayStation brand, which created the market we're debating over in the first place. Wii U won't have all of that going for it. It's carrying the weakest brand for gamers in the history of the market.
That, and unique modifications. Console hardware doesn't need to conform to any standards after all.
You're talking out of your ass. You know that the best that can happen is Nintendo creating a "mid-range" console while Soy and Microsoft make "high-end" consoles. We've been arguing this from the start. Nintendo doesn't have magical engineers that can make parts more powerful than the actually are.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think in the end people will underrate the PS4/xbox3 before they come out, and right now we're overrating the Wii-U. Would love to be wrong 
bgassassin
Member
I think in the end people will underrate the PS4/xbox3 before they come out, and right now we're overrating the Wii-U. Would love to be wrong
Pssh. The opposite has clearly been happening and won't change till they see the specs (and end up disappointed).
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I don't know, from what I've seen around GAF, there is some craziness but I think the majority are of the mindset that next gen won't be that big of a jump. But if that's the consensus I'm noticing out there for the ps4/720, then we're definitely overdoing it here, not everyone.
bgassassin
Member
I've seen more than enough "8GB of memory" posts to disagree.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I just assume people are making crytek jokes.
In the end we'll see Nintendo entering the HD game with something a more powerful than ps3/360 but not by THAT much. Then the other 2 will launch with something much more powerful than ps360 but not a whole lot more powerful than the Wii-U, but still noticeably so. Everyone will carry on their way, and to the victor go the spoils or something.
I'm speaking in practical terms, of actual games we'll see, not technical jargon when I say "more powerful".
Proelite
Member
I am with you. Everyone and their mothers are droning on about how it's impossible to see a jump next generation akin to the last one, and how development costs are going to limit the jump even if the tech is there. It's as annoying to me as the 8GB of ram or bust because ram is so cheap comments.
bgassassin
Member
^ I know that's not true because specialguy talks about expecting next gen to be the biggest jump yet.
Trust me. They weren't Crytek jokes.
Trust me. They weren't Crytek jokes.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
to be fair, it wasn't long ago we spent 30 pages discussing an obscene amount of embedded ram.
bgassassin
Member
And most of us knew that was fake.
8GB? Pffft.
16GB or no sell.
And I expect Nintendo to cheap out, less than 512MB total RAM for the whole damn thing.
The system won't even match the 360, and they're lying about the discs.
They're just DVDs.
Sony will be using holodiscs that hold 500TB each, for single layer.
16GB or no sell.
And I expect Nintendo to cheap out, less than 512MB total RAM for the whole damn thing.
The system won't even match the 360, and they're lying about the discs.
They're just DVDs.
Sony will be using holodiscs that hold 500TB each, for single layer.
The sad part is this isn't far off from what some people REALLY think.
AceBandage
Banned
We're not getting 768mb of eDRAM?
Crap.
Crap.
bgassassin
Member
The real underlying view going on.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
It's ok guys, I'm still leaning towards going back to team nintendo for a generation, or at least for half the generation until Sony builds up a library for the PS4
AceBandage
Banned
It's ok guys, I'm still leaning towards going back to team nintendo for a generation, or at least for half the generation until Sony builds up a library for the PS4
You should at least get a 3DS.
Paper Mario, man!
That's such a vague statement, though. From the leaks we've seen so far, it could be anywhere from slightly more powerful to five times as powerful. Now how much is "THAT much"? And how much more powerful will Sony's and Microsoft's next systems be? Moore's Law, adjusted, would point at maybe eight times. Eight isn't much more than five. People point at the tablet controller, and fail to realize that the next Xbox for example will almost certainly ship with Kinect 2.0, which won't be cheap either. And if Microsoft once again decides not to add some DSPs (which would increase costs), it'll have a considerable performance impact. And we don't know what Sony does.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'm an ambassador thank you very much. Way to keep up. It is the duty of an ambassador to recognize another ambassador.
AceBandage
Banned
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