brain_stew
Member
Shadows are a solved problem, they just require an incredible amount of resources to perfect and the Wii U isn't going to change that fact.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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Shin Johnpv
Member
Going from 480p to 720p you gain 583,680 pixels. Going from 720p to 1080p you gain 1,152,000 pixels. That's just shy of double the amount of pixels. If you can tell the difference between 480p and 720p you should definitely be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
Just to give you numbers 480p in non-square format gives you 337,920 pixels. 720p gives you 921,600 pixels. 1080p gives you 2,073,600 pixels.
brain_stew
Member
That chart doesn't apply to rendered 3D content (i.e. games).
If that's really the driving force, they need to stop now and fire Iwata, since he's do thie exact opposite of what made Wii and DS successful. Jumping on fads is not how Nintendo should operate. If they're going to do this, they might as well move to mobile platforms.
The truth is that third-parties wanted a traditional controller, while Nintendo wanted a gimmick of some sort. Someone said "why don't we bring the DS to the living room?" One of the designers had a tablet, and they decided that the tablet form-factor works best. BAM! Wii U. This will not be advertised as a tablet. The word "tablet" will never be used by Nintendo without the word "not" in the sentence.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Hey man, I'm really glad you were in the Board of Directors roundtable meetings during the concept creation for this console. Let us know of any other pertinent information you gathered throughout your time in there.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
That chart shows how close you'd have to be to see every bit of detail, not how close you'd have to be to see a difference. It also assumes 20/20 vision. Mine is quite a bit better than that.
Okay, maybe I went too far there. Sorry. It's just that Apple getting credit for EVERYTHING pisses me off so much.
bgassassin
Member
Man did I type that post bad. Anyway, I think it will end up not being tied to hardware. But I'm not understanding your example.
eSATA has been around for awhile. USB 3.0 is relatively new. Another poster said a SATA controller was already in Wii U so Wii U is about halfway there for an eSATA port. But yeah that would be about it, but they could include improvements for the installed version like how BF3 on 360 included a texture pack that made the game look better. And while I don't have one of those consoles to know for sure, I know I don't need the disc for the PC game(s) I play once installed. And I don't know what the cost differences would be.
Buddha Beam
Banned
I agree that it's influenced by the tablet market and the success of the DS, but not necessarily smartphones. I think the third major factor in creating a tablet controller was largely due to Japanese gamers increasingly drifting away from consoles. It's obviously not a portable device, but it should have some amount of appeal to portable-centric gamers, I think.
Another factor was probably developers whining about not having traditional controls, as someone else said.
Competing with the iPad isn't a terribly difficult thing to do in this case, though. I suppose "competing" isn't even the right word. Basically, it just needs to do all of it's non-gaming related things, like surfing the web, ABOUT as well as almost any other tablet on the market (hence the need for multitouch). I suspect a lot of media outlets and even laypeople will give it a pass for what it doesn't do... but for the things it and the iPad/other tablets do? It needs to hold it's own against them if Nintendo wants to avoid negative word of mouth.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
If Nintendo implements an actual account system and makes the Mario Kart Community feature de-facto for their online multiplayer it will be awesome. Seriously. The Mario Kart community feature is simply fantastic.
fabricated backlash
Member
I would love to see this community feature as a system wide update for the 3DS as well. Hell, they could, no scratch that should do that asap. Coupled with an integrated messaging and invite system, it would be almost perfect.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
The other poster assumes that a SATA controller will be in the system. I think that it's probably likely that they'll use SATA for the DVD/Bluray/Whatever drive, but it's not a given. They could tie into the drive and drive it more directly too.
bgassassin
Member
True. Summarizing my view, if this console is really for appealing to a certain group and there won't be an internal HDD, then they should not leave any hindrances to that group. I don't mind the extra cost being passed on to me.
woo and indeed hoo
Banned
Thanks
. I assumed that the disc would need to be in the tray in this scenario for piracy prevention. I actually fantasise about a system where I can install all my games which then ties the disc/cart/holo disc/whatever to that system [so it can't be sold unless it is un-tied and deleted from the system] so I can then play any of my games without having to get out of my old man armchair to swap discs. I love how I can go from game to game on my 3DS but when I realise I have to physically change my card if I want to play a different retail game it just feels antiquated
.
I don't even have a smartphone so this feeling would be exacerbated if I did, I would imagine.
Oh and I'll just leave this here
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/e32011/newhw/0/0
brain_stew
Member
It also assumes that the content is 1:1 mapped to the display device at all resolutions and has prefect antialiasing. It's not a chart based on reality and has no application to a video game console.
Its a flawed premise, while it's not technically incorrect, it has no real practical application.
m.i.s.
Banned
Yet again, I find Miyamoto's thoughts on hardware design slightly disturbing even though I know he's not being entirely serious above (or is he?). Like the 3 pronged N64 controller that many found difficult to get to grips with. Or the confusing layout of the GCN controller (despite being vastly superior to hold) that benefited from just a few games but to the exclusion of others.
For one thing, the DS's two screens are just next to one another. I'm thinking about something like Kirby Power Paintbrush / Canvas Curse on a hypothetical Wii U version. Are you meant to draw on the touch screen and look up to the area / level map on the TV whilst you do so? Do you hold it up in front of you with arms outstretched so you look at both the controller screen and the TV? Or do you place it on your lap and look up at the TV screen intermittently? What about the previous, much vaunted design aspect of creating a familiar controller layout, like the GCN controller buttons, that you don't keep looking down to see what you're pressing?
Or what indeed about the ergonomics of the controller? You're holding a large rectangular shape from the edges. The face buttons that are most frequently used are directly beneath the right analog controller rather than at an angle like in traditional controllers. How comfortable will this controller be to use for an extended period of time now that it eschews the moulded "handles" that you see on an 360, PS3 or even the Wiimote and nunchuk?
bgassassin
Member
So I've been taking some time to read about out-of-core algorithms that wsippel mentioned Retro hired a specialist for.
I thought this was pretty interesting although it deals with a CG movie and specifically Global Illumination.
http://www.tabellion.org/et/paper11/OutOfCorePBGI.pdf
Obviously it goes much deeper than that and my understanding is barely basic right now, but I'm beginning to see why this would interest Nintendo since games won't be pushing that level CG movie level... unless they are on the next Xbox.
But I at least wanted to share an example of it.
I thought this was pretty interesting although it deals with a CG movie and specifically Global Illumination.
http://www.tabellion.org/et/paper11/OutOfCorePBGI.pdf
Obviously it goes much deeper than that and my understanding is barely basic right now, but I'm beginning to see why this would interest Nintendo since games won't be pushing that level CG movie level... unless they are on the next Xbox.
But I at least wanted to share an example of it.
Day fucking one.
specialguy
Banned
It occurred to me recently that Wii U is going to be launched, worldwide, with finished games, in less than one year. Actually less than 11 months (assuming Nov launch), maybe less if earlier launch in any territory. Maybe ten months, maybe less.
In other words we've got to be learning more about it and it's games soon....
In other words we've got to be learning more about it and it's games soon....
AFAIK out of core isn't a particular algorithm or new discovery. It's just a method for having more data in your game than can fit into memory. Games have technically been out of core for years and years.
Now, having a specialist in this sort of thing is good of course but in and of itself, out of core isn't a panacea. The biggest thing I get from Retro hiring an out of core expert means to me they are working on a large open world/high data type game and that's intruiging.
Now, having a specialist in this sort of thing is good of course but in and of itself, out of core isn't a panacea. The biggest thing I get from Retro hiring an out of core expert means to me they are working on a large open world/high data type game and that's intruiging.
I'd imagine game info would come first and the mega blowout at E3 with hardware, online etc when hype is at its maximum. Blowing their load too early would be a mistake because the media would lose interest if too ich info was given too early.
Ive been thinking the same thing, yet... what can they actually show new before E3 to build hype? They probably wont announce a price till they know if Microsoft plans to launch in 2012. Which means they wont let 3rd parties to reveal their games.
However, I still maintain that Nintendo does not want to associate the WiiU with the 360PS3. This means they wont show-off any cross platform titles on the WiiU unless it looks significantly better. They may not want to do that till... GDC. If they do it during E3 to might have to contend with MS and Sony tech demos.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Ninja Gaiden 3 comes out March 2012
this game is multiplatform PS3/360 and on WiiU as well.
So you have a game coming out on March 20th 2012 - its kinda sad that WiiU gets it at launch in NOVEMBER
this game is multiplatform PS3/360 and on WiiU as well.
So you have a game coming out on March 20th 2012 - its kinda sad that WiiU gets it at launch in NOVEMBER
Error Macro
Member
So you have a game coming out on March 20th 2012 - its kinda sad that WiiU gets it at launch in NOVEMBER
Or it could launch in June. Who the heck knows with Nintendo these days.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I was really hoping for MS to have an Xbox 720 shocker at CES to force Nintendo to release more WiiU info earlier
but if MS has hardware to announce they seem to need an MTV/Vegas circus to present it
Somehow Nintendo got Ubisoft and Vigil to shut up about the WiiU for months now
but if MS has hardware to announce they seem to need an MTV/Vegas circus to present it
Somehow Nintendo got Ubisoft and Vigil to shut up about the WiiU for months now
Arkham City for the Wii U could well come out a full year after its XBox360/PS3 counterparts. If they add a feature where you hold the Wii U pad up for a sort of AR detective mode, it could get a bit of interest, but I'm guessing the Wii U launch will see a lot of ports of not-very-recent PS360 games with a map tacked onto the screen.
Nintendo's best hope from third parties around launch is if they manage to get significantly better looking versions of GTA V and whatever Call of Duty is out next year. I'm fairly cynical when it comes to big third party games doing the hardware justice, but maybe Nintendo will splash a bit of money around and convince them to put a bit of extra effort into the Wii U versions.
Nintendo's best hope from third parties around launch is if they manage to get significantly better looking versions of GTA V and whatever Call of Duty is out next year. I'm fairly cynical when it comes to big third party games doing the hardware justice, but maybe Nintendo will splash a bit of money around and convince them to put a bit of extra effort into the Wii U versions.
That'll hardly bring in the 360/PS3 crowd, unless a game like GTA V is exclusive
I didn't buy the Xbox/PS3/PC version of Arkham City because I'm waiting to buy it on the Wii U with all the extras included. Being able to use the WiiPad or the Remote is much more interesting to me. I'll even buy Mass Effect again if they add in IR. Hopefully some Bioware guys are reading this now....
Smiles and Cries
Member
WiiU launch will be grossly full of mess I do not need to play
Yeah I'm afraid of that tacked on stuff for older ports. I wonder if the WiiU will get a version of Saints Row The Third? I would not mind that one so much. Maybe an unbroken Skyrim. Anno 2070. I was so ready to get a 360 but I wanted to wait and see if MS had a date for the next box
So I am stuck with a lot of games I wanted to play on HD consoles this year that will have to wait until the end of 2012
GTA V would be nice but I am just not putting my hopes up on that.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
After playing F-zero GX the past few days, I really think this would be a good technical showcase for the Wii-U. 30+ cars on screen, 60fps, atleast Wipeout HD level graphics and 1080p native. It would look amazing.
It's about having more data in a single scene or asset than can fit into memory, not just the whole game. A simple example would be an ultra high resolution image that doesn't fit into memory at once. An out-of-core algorithm would basically scan the whole file and only read an interpolated subset of pixels into memory - just as many as required to display a certain section of the image at a certain zoom level and output resolution.
I'd say the media has already lost interest. Hype over the Wii U is at an all-time low. I rarely see the Wii U brought up outside of a few threads on GAF these days.
Despite how much they probably want that disastrous E3 2011 debut to go away, it's not. The Wii U has already made its first impression. The load has already been blown. Nintendo needs to be doing serious damage control right now and being very hands-on with info on the console. And now there's a chance that their thunder might be completely stolen by MS.
Unless they have ready games that are going to seriously blow the doors off of The Los Angeles Convention Center this E3 (and I'm not talking about HD versions of the same tired franchises that only Nintendo fans care about), I don't see how being this tight lipped about the Wii U for this long is doing them any favors. Only the hardest of the hardcore Nintendo fans will care.
They can't wait until E3.
IsntChrisL
Member
This is true. A high def Star Fox game could really show off the system's abilities as well.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Ninja Gaiden 3 comes out March 2012
this game is multiplatform PS3/360 and on WiiU as well.
So you have a game coming out on March 20th 2012 - its kinda sad that WiiU gets it at launch in NOVEMBER
My original prediction was a few weeks after E3 and I'm sticking by that.
Smiles and Cries
Member
true 3rd Party WiiU exclusives is what will be most interesting a year or so after the WiiU's launch. I don't trust launch exclusives to be amazing normally launch games fall short anyway.
Shadow resolution and resources aside, no. shadowing algorithms actually have a long way to go. There are different types suited to different situations depending on caster to receiver distance and just the very nature of the game world (big and open vs small and short range). You can still throw a 2k x 2k shadow map for a single light source with all sorts of configurations for cascades to hide transition and make better use of the available shadow buffer but still have shadow acne issues. You might check out the 2009 Siggraph presentation from Bungie about graphics research. They have a nice long discussion on how to achieve good shadows and a number of caveats and issues that come up.
Even distance-based attenuation of the penumbra still hasn't made it to many games (less than a handful support it on PC) and although processing power is related, that still doesn't make it solved.
Andrew Lauritzen has a couple presentations on advanced shadow mapping techniques as well, but again there are some situational caveats.
Smiles and Cries
Member
If they were going to do that why not launch on a Sunday the week of E3?
That would be amazing! Media Blockout until E3 June 5-7 and on June 10th launch the WiiU
That would be insane hype
I'd say the media has already lost interest. Hype over the Wii U is at an all-time low. I rarely see the Wii U brought up outside of a few threads on GAF these days.
Despite how much they probably want that disastrous E3 2011 debut to go away, it's not. The Wii U has already made its first impression. The load has already been blown. Nintendo needs to be doing serious damage control right now and being very hands-on with info on the console. And now there's a chance that their thunder might be completely stolen by MS.
Unless they have ready games that are going to seriously blow the doors off of The Los Angeles Convention Center this E3 (and I'm not talking about HD versions of the same tired franchises that only Nintendo fans care about), I don't see how being this tight lipped about the Wii U for this long is doing them any favors. Only the hardest of the hardcore Nintendo fans will care.
They can't wait until E3.
I don't know, man. What's there to talk about? We've had virtually no new information since E3. No new games, no screenshots, no idea who's making games, no new tech info, nothing. The system may as well not have been announced in the first place. I don't understand why they announced the system, then blocked any new information. They don't even really talk about it themselves, either. Reggie will pay it some kind of lip service, but basically, it's a non-system at this point.
It's not our fault that Nintendo wants us to forget about it.
As for ports...
I don't care. There are a lot of ports I would pick up if they released them on the Wii U. Anything with IR support will automatically get my attention. Dead Space with IR support, or Mass Effect, or Skyrim, etc. would be automatic buys for me. Sure lots of people already own those games, but playing them again in new ways would be awesome. As long as the release has a good mix of ports and new stuff, they'll be fine.
m.i.s.
Banned
Like MonHun exclusivity in the East, GTA V exclusivity in the West would certainly do it.
Though I think even Nintendo would balk at how much it would cost to do this.
Microsoft couldn't do it, so it's obviously not possible.
Exterminieren
Banned
Nonsense. The media doesn't bring up the Wii U at the moment because it doesn't need to, and that's absolutely fine. A blowout is planned for E3, and, frankly, it matters very little what people think now. Consoles are not bought and sold off of hype from a year and a half in advance; see 3DS for ample proof of that.I'd say the media has already lost interest. Hype over the Wii U is at an all-time low. I rarely see the Wii U brought up outside of a few threads on GAF these days.
Despite how much they probably want that disastrous E3 2011 debut to go away, it's not. The Wii U has already made its first impression. The load has already been blown. Nintendo needs to be doing serious damage control right now and being very hands-on with info on the console. And now there's a chance that their thunder might be completely stolen by MS.
Unless they have ready games that are going to seriously blow the doors off of The Los Angeles Convention Center this E3 (and I'm not talking about HD versions of the same tired franchises that only Nintendo fans care about), I don't see how being this tight lipped about the Wii U for this long is doing them any favors. Only the hardest of the hardcore Nintendo fans will care.
They can't wait until E3.
Being forced to show off the console before they were ready is what led to that E3 showing in the first place. Far better that they keep their cards close to their chest at this point and lay them out at E3, where people are watching.
First impressions don't matter a crap in console releases. Wii was revealed by being held up at the end of a conference with no further information of any kind being revealed for another 6 months, and that ended up turning out alright.
If Iwata comes out at E3 and shows off the likes of Mario and Smash Bros. in HD, that'll bring the hype easily. Your narrative of only Nintendo fans caring about those franchises is not backed up by any actual facts of any kind; one simply needs to look at the 3DS upswing that Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart brought to see that.
Really, assuming that Wii U launches in November, in what way is 6 months not enough time to hype the games and get the message across? Again, it worked for the Wii.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I hear a lot of IR talk but are any of these devs any good at IR support?
It took devs a bit of time to get IR working smoothly on Wii
It took devs a bit of time to get IR working smoothly on Wii
Smiles and Cries
Member
*Sigh*
Not a single solid news about the Wii U since the E3 reveal and the year is over. Almost complete silence. They weren't so mysterious with the 3DS.
God damn it, at least tease something at GDC.
E3 2012 better blow my goddamn mind.
6 mOnths!!! or a CES leak D:
I don't know, but IR or no IR will determine wheither or not I buy their game. I'm one guy out of many, but considering how many Wii games I own (more than I can count), IR is a big thing for me. I think players and journalist alike should bash companies who don't include it in their FPS or TPS games. The option should be there even if people can still use dual analog. If people make it known they want it, then devs will be more willing to add it in.
Hydrargyrus
Member
Will Nintendo finally be in the CES'12?
Smiles and Cries
Member
Why do people think they were FORCED?
They really did not have to show a thing, Project Cafe leaks could have just stayed Project Cafe and no one would know the truth until E3 2012
It would have confused the hell out of MS and Sony not that Spies do not exist
Smiles and Cries
Member
behind closed doors with press and other companies showing WiiU
Nintendo obviously need big exclusives, but they'll have to handle those themselves. They will get ports of all the big games like GTA and CoD for the simple reason that publishers can't afford for those games not to be on any platform, and porting from the XBox360 should be fairly easy for lazy devs. Hell, they even made an entire version of CoD3 just for the Wii, and I'm sure they'd already realised how badly those kind of games have sold on the console. Ports alone won't convince XBox360 and PS3 owners to buy a Wii U, but by showing off noticeably better graphics, and interesting Wii U pad functionality that can't be replicated on other consoles, they might get people to start thinking "I could be playing a better version of this".
Trying to money-hat Activision into making CoDBlops 2 (or whatever it's called) a Wii U exclusive is obviously out of the question, but throwing a bit of resources their way to make sure the Wii U version has significantly better graphics and to get them to give players the ability to issue commands to squad members via the map on the Wii U pad is something that Nintendo should look at doing. And if they do this early enough, they can create an expectation among players that the Wii U pad should be used for more than just a map or inventory screen, which should put a bit more pressure on devs to come up with their own uses for it.
Basically. Ports will at least bring Nintendo level in terms of the big third party games. First party exclusives and careful money-hatting will have to do the rest.
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