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[Fourth Storm]

I forgot to mention perhaps the single most important thing to support my previous posts. That thing being that a major advertised feature of Wii U is playing games without the need for the television. In that case, inventory/maps will be a normal click of "minus" or whatever these days. Video chat is reserved for before and after matches. Swipes and taps still work fine and perhaps even better as you directly touch the action, and then we can talk about hotkeys and shit on the screen.

Thus, some but not the majority of games will require use of both screens at once. That patent is a solid multiplayer solution that doesn't cost a ton of cash to make, even if we are talking full shell. Or maybe it even latches onto the CC/CCPro. :O

 

[royalan]

Sin and Punishment? Drill Dozer? Endless Ocean?

In fact the only new IP that became a success is Wii ____. And Brain Age. But that's probably not who you mean by "us Nintendo fans begging for new IPs," right?

It's not just new IP that will suffice will it? It's Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon being ended because a few jaded people are tired of them. And that ain't happening.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say anything about ending these franchises. Just that another Zelda or Metroid is not going to grab the attention of non-nintendo gamers or the COD crowd. I think it's time to add a new IP to that order. That IP obviously isn't small-budget and/or niche handheld titles that get piss-poor marketing like Drill Dozer or Endless Ocean

Spoiler

I mean...really? You choose those games to prop up your argument?

. But a big-budget, AAA new IP that gets marketed like the big boys.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Really?
You think people will really care about Miis in a Mario game?

Absolutely. New Super Mario Bros. reached a platform much bigger than Mario itself. Many of these people don't have such an affinity for Toad, Peach, etc. But you market a Mario platforming experience with "your friends" starring as the protagonists. It is big. Especially for families and casual players. You know. The Wii crowd

 

[BY2K]

Holy crap, we're actually going to reach 20,000 post way before E3.

What now, is there gonna be another thread made? If so, can I make it?

 

[qq more]

An HD Melee with flawless netcode would be the game of the forever.


Seriously, I'd stop buying games. That's all I need right there.

By Melee do you mean SSBM itself or a Smash Bros game that plays like Melee in terms of physics and such?

 

[Anth0ny]

Would you stop giving GNintendo ideas? We know Diablo 3 is coming to consoles, but I would be surprised if it was coming to Wii U too.

hehehe

I don't know why, but I'm expecting an announcement at E3. Considering the D3 to console rumors, and the fact that the Wii U controller lends itself to Blizzard games pretty damn well...

 

[Caramello]

My theory at this point is.

New Super Mario Bros. Mii is the launch (or near launch) killer app with Pikmin 3 not too far behind. Eitherway, those are the two big character based intellectual properties surrounding the systems debut. Both should be developed internally inside of EAD's different development teams. But I'd say theres a small chance, another developer may be involved with Pikmin 3.

Launch to Holiday First-Part Titles

EAD - New Super Mario Bros. Mii
EAD - Pikmin 3
EAD - 1 or 2 new tablet-mii games
NST or Monster - Wii Sports HD
NST or Monster - HD Racer
EAD or NST or NdCube - Wii Fit HD

Hopefully there are more surprises of course. But based on the evidence that has been presented, this is my initial assumption.

What gives you the impression that NST would be developing for Wii U? I assumed only their handheld team remained.

 

[Deguello]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say anything about ending these franchises. Just that another Zelda or Metroid is not going to grab the attention of non-nintendo gamers or the COD crowd. I think it's time to add a new IP to that order. That IP obviously isn't small-budget and/or niche handheld titles that get piss-poor marketing like Drill Dozer or Endless Ocean

Spoiler

I mean...really? You choose those games to prop up your argument?

. But a big-budget, AAA new IP that gets marketed like the big boys.

NSMB Wii was small-budget. Brain Age was (insanely) small budget and had a very small advertising push.

I don't believe that I said you wanted to end Mario and Zelda. I merely said that those that typically want new IPs are tired of Mario and Zelda and the simple presence of new IPs wouldn't suffice. Because apparently, they don't suffice now.

And yeah I do use those games to prop up my argument. They're new IPs, aren't they? And if the Nintendo fans are as eagle-eyed and hungry for new IPs as you say, then they don't really need giant multimillion dollar marketing to tell them about titles that they already know about, right?

 

[Fourth Storm]

My theory at this point is.

New Super Mario Bros. Mii is the launch (or near launch) killer app with Pikmin 3 not too far behind. Eitherway, those are the two big character based intellectual properties surrounding the systems debut. Both should be developed internally inside of EAD's different development teams. But I'd say theres a small chance, another developer may be involved with Pikmin 3.

Launch to Holiday First-Part Titles

EAD - New Super Mario Bros. Mii
EAD - Pikmin 3
EAD - 1 or 2 new tablet-mii games
NST or Monster - Wii Sports HD
NST or Monster - HD Racer
EAD or NST or NdCube - Wii Fit HD

Hopefully there are more surprises of course. But based on the evidence that has been presented, this is my initial assumption.

Your insights into Nintendo's internal teams far exceeds mine so if my hunches come anywhere near your expectations, there must be something there. But you are correct that Nintendo could sell a shit ton of units if they, say, packed in a Wii U Sports and sold Wii U Fit that worked w/ the old balance board that same holiday. They just need to hit that sweet spot with the price of the console itself.

 

[AceBandage]

Your insights into Nintendo's internal teams far exceeds mine so if my hunches come anywhere near your expectations, there must be something there. But you are correct that Nintendo could sell a shit ton of units if they, say, packed in a Wii U Sports and sold Wii U Fit that worked w/ the old balance board that same holiday. They just need to hit that sweet spot with the price of the console itself.

No, please.
No packing in WiiSports/WiiFit.
That was a big part of the problem with the Wii.

 

[Fourth Storm]

No, please.
No packing in WiiSports/WiiFit.
That was a big part of the problem with the Wii.

Are you kidding me? C'mon Ace, you can't go round saying those things without backing it up a bit more.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

What gives you the impression that NST would be developing for Wii U? I assumed only their handheld team remained.

They are have pretty much the same team intact. The people they lost, have been replaced in the same positions. What they will do this generation might be completely different because of the hardware and new focus of demographic.

A Wave Race HD might be completely possible. But something tells me that Wii Sports HD will be developed outside of EAD. I think the Wii Sports team is on to something new.

 

[AceBandage]

Are you kidding me? C'mon Ace, you can't go round saying those things without backing it up a bit more.

Really?
You don't think that WiiSports being basically the reason the Wii sold so well was a big part of the reason that third parties wouldn't support it?
It basically set the entire tone for the system by doing that.

 

[Caramello]

No, please.
No packing in WiiSports/WiiFit.
That was a big part of the problem with the Wii.

Yeah not sure packing in a new Wii Sports would work as well considering it isn't brand new.

However you make no sense. Without Wii Sports packed in, Wii wouldn't have sold over 90 million units at this point in its life.

edit: No, Wii Sports being a pack in title was absolutely not the reason third parties didn't support the system... Were you even around 5 years ago when all this was taking place? It's like you get an idea in your head and just run with it.

 

[Jharp]

Didn't see that Mark Rein tweet, nor did I know Valve had any interest in the system. Cool.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Yeah not sure packing in a new Wii Sports would work as well considering it isn't brand new.

However you make no sense. Without Wii Sports packed in, Wii wouldn't have sold over 90 million units at this point in its life.

Well it actually was not packed in Japan where Wii Sports and the Wii sold like gang busters. It was packed in North America (then Europe) because NOA felt it had to force the consumer to own it rather than market it.

NOA really thinks very little of the consumers ability.

 

[Triton55]

Well they showed off two big features for the series. Zapping. And Mii characters. I think that having four Mii protagonists will be huge for family Wii gaming. HUGE.

Zapping?

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah not sure packing in a new Wii Sports would work as well considering it isn't brand new.

However you make no sense. Without Wii Sports packed in, Wii wouldn't have sold over 90 million units at this point in its life.

edit: No, Wii Sports being a pack in title was absolutely not the reason third parties didn't support the system... Were you even around 5 years ago when all this was taking place? It's like you get an idea in your head and just run with it.

Of course I was around.
And of course it had an effect.
It fostered a certain type of audience that Nintendo then ran with, creating the userbase that the Wii now has.
Where as, had they run with say... Zelda or Excite Truck, the userbase probably would have been much more receptive to games like Red Steel.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Really?
You don't think that WiiSports being basically the reason the Wii sold so well was a big part of the reason that third parties wouldn't support it?
It basically set the entire tone for the system by doing that.

Nah, Twilight Princess, Red Steel, Resident Evil 4, and more were well-received right at the start. The free game that came with the system only expanded the audience. The 3rd party buffoonery that followed is well documented on these boards. But online and graphics also had alot to do with it, of course.

I've never heard the argument that Nintendo should not have packed in Wii Sports in the U.S. Nintendo used that title to get into as many homes as possible, and they achieved that task. You don't get much more generic than "Sports." I think we can all agree on some sports, right everyone?

 

[Caramello]

Well it actually was not packed in Japan where Wii Sports and the Wii sold like gang busters. It was packed in North America (then Europe) because NOA felt it had to force the consumer to own it rather than market it.

NOA really thinks very little of the consumers ability.

I know that, but I also know that Japanese consumers jump on a new trend much quicker than western markets so it made more sense to bundle outside of Japan. It also allowed Nintendo to price the system higher in the West which was an extremely good move considering the shortages it had in its first couple of years on the market.

 

[methodman]

Didn't see that Mark Rein tweet, nor did I know Valve had any interest in the system. Cool.

What tweet/ news?

 

[royalan]

NSMB Wii was small-budget. Brain Age was (insanely) small budget and had a very small advertising push.

I don't believe that I said you wanted to end Mario and Zelda. I merely said that those that typically want new IPs are tired of Mario and Zelda and the simple presence of new IPs wouldn't suffice. Because apparently, they don't suffice now.

And yeah I do use those games to prop up my argument. They're new IPs, aren't they? And if the Nintendo fans are as eagle-eyed and hungry for new IPs as you say, then they don't really need giant multimillion dollar marketing to tell them about titles that they really know about, right?

Are you kidding? Brain Age was part of Nintendo's big "Celebrities playing DS games" marketing push. There were also NSMB Wii commercials playing non-stop around the Holidays. Both titles were insanely well marketed. Also, both titles benefited from being the right type of game at the right time - Brain Age connecting with casual audiences before smartphones would usurp the market for quick gaming experiences, and NSMB Wii was the perfect mid-gen game in a style Nintendo fans had been begging for since that Melee stage and friendly enough for casual gamers to embrace.

And no, Nintendo's regularly recycled IPs don't really suffice now. Have you seen Skyward Sword's numbers?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

What tweet/ news?

https://twitter.com/#!/MarkRein/status/83671040521285632

Valve likes the WiiU -- the idea of having full Steam support on WiiU excites me quite a bit! Valve rocks! http://aol.it/kNm1nd

-Mark Rein of Epic

 

[boyshine]

Would you stop giving GNintendo ideas? We know Diablo 3 is coming to consoles, but I would be surprised if it was coming to Wii U too.

Every game coming to Xbox 360 & PlayStation 3 and releasing post E3, have to come to Wii U as well. Nintendo has to get the third party support right this time, and that means every single game that’s released for 360+PS3 on Wii U the same day. If that doesn’t happen, we’re back to GameCube land, where it gets some third party games but the console is considered only suitable for selected games.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I forgot to mention perhaps the single most important thing to support my previous posts. That thing being that a major advertised feature of Wii U is playing games without the need for the television. In that case, inventory/maps will be a normal click of "minus" or whatever these days. Video chat is reserved for before and after matches. Swipes and taps still work fine and perhaps even better as you directly touch the action, and then we can talk about hotkeys and shit on the screen.

Thus, some but not the majority of games will require use of both screens at once. That patent is a solid multiplayer solution that doesn't cost a ton of cash to make, even if we are talking full shell. Or maybe it even latches onto the CC/CCPro. :O

Sorry to obnoxiously quote myself but this is not to be understated. Plus, it presents the possibility of PS4/720 ports packing in those extra graphical effects down the line but in a downgraded resolution if played on the tablet.

And Nintendo could even update the tablet somewhere down the line! Don't put it past them!

 

[Caramello]

Of course I was around.
And of course it had an effect.
It fostered a certain type of audience that Nintendo then ran with, creating the userbase that the Wii now has.
Where as, had they run with say... Zelda or Excite Truck, the userbase probably would have been much more receptive to games like Red Steel.

- Nintendo had just come off the GameCube
- Nintendo had just gone two generations with weak third party support
- The Wii had low specs which meant that the massive cash third parties had put into developing new engines would be wasted on Wii
- Third parties needed the 360 and PS3 to perform well for themselves to perform well
- Third parties supported the system poorly in its first few years which meant that there was a lack of an audience on the system
- Whereas Nintendo released a Zelda on launch day, a new Metroid Prime, 3D Mario, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Super Paper Mario etc all around this phase to foster an audience for their own core titles
- Online play became a big focus for core games which the Wii was also lacking in

If Nintendo had not released Wii Sports or Wii Fit, the Wii would be sitting behind the PS3 and 360 and still have no third party support, in fact it'd have less than it does now! Wii Sports/Wii Fit brought in a whole range of new players to the system and you seem to forget that first party support for core gamers was extremely strong for Nintendo, you're making out like Zelda, Mario, Metroid etc didn't happen! Core gamers were buying the system at launch, it had games, it had potential, and that's a key point "potential".

Third parties didn't deliver on the potential; RE lightgun game instead of a TPS for example when RE4 Wii sold over a million copies. You can't tell me there wasn't an opportunity there.. It was the third release of the game!

Third parties made their mind up long before we knew about Wii Sports and you can't blame it for that.

 

[Dalthien]

Of course I was around.
And of course it had an effect.
It fostered a certain type of audience that Nintendo then ran with, creating the userbase that the Wii now has.
Where as, had they run with say... Zelda or Excite Truck, the userbase probably would have been much more receptive to games like Red Steel.

The Wii Sports pack-in turned out to be brilliant. It allowed them to bump the price up to $250, and essentially forced EVERYONE into buying a full-price copy of Wii Sports at $50. Honestly, even without the pack-in the game would have sold ridiculously well and would still have been the dominant focus of the system (a la Japan), but by packing it in, they raked in a fortune in extra cash, and sold boatloads of extra accessories (and Wii Plays) because everyone needed extra wiimotes and nunchuks to play the game that came with their system (since it is basically a multiplayer game). That move alone earned them billions in profit during those strong Wii years.

Really though, 3rd-parties weren't supporting the Wii regardless. The Wii followed the Gamecube, which was left for dead by 3rd-parties, and their general consensus was that the Wii was going to follow in Cube's steps. By the time it became apparent that the Wii was a runaway beast, 3rd-parties had already committed all of their top devs and top brands to the HD twins. There was no going back at that point.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't think Ace is completely wrong though. Nintendo did factually foster a certain kind of audience with their marketing and certain games. The types of audience that have no interest in games not named mario and Wii ____. Not saying that was the only reason for no support, there is the lack of HD thing, and the sour taste devs already had, but it certainly didn't help at all.

 

[Cmd. Pishad'aç]

Every game coming to Xbox 360 & PlayStation 3 and releasing post E3, have to come to Wii U as well. Nintendo has to get the third party support right this time, and that means every single game that’s released for 360+PS3 on Wii U the same day. If that doesn’t happen, we’re back to GameCube land, where it gets some third party games but the console is considered only suitable for selected games.

Due to the nature of the tablet like controller, I think we will be back to "gamecube land" yes sir. Only with better 3rd party support.

 

[Deguello]

Are you kidding? Brain Age was part of Nintendo's big "Celebrities playing DS games" marketing push. There were also NSMB Wii commercials playing non-stop around the Holidays. Both titles were insanely well marketed. Also, both titles benefited from being the right type of game at the right time - Brain Age connecting with casual audiences before smartphones would usurp the market for quick gaming experiences, and NSMB Wii was the perfect mid-gen game in a style Nintendo fans had been begging for since that Melee stage and friendly enough for casual gamers to embrace.

And no, Nintendo's regularly recycled IPs don't really suffice now. Have you seen Skyward Sword's numbers?

Brain Age only got that sort of marketing after it became a big hit without it. I'm just not sure what you mean by "big marketing" it seems pretty subjective and post hoc, if you ask me. Steel Diver also got big marketing too. It was marketed with the 3DS itself.

And yes I have seen Skyward Sword's numbers. Have you seen Steel Diver's? Drill Dozer's? Sin and Punishment's? Your hypothesis of Nintendo fans waiting in legion to snap up new IPs is flawed.

Also Obviously I meant just the presence of new IPs doesn't suffice with Mario and Zelda existing at the same time. The only thing that will please New IP Hawks is for Mario and Zelda to end and new IPs to take their place, because apparently they turn their noses up at any new attempt to make a new IP currently.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I don't think Ace is completely wrong though. Nintendo did factually foster a certain kind of audience with their marketing and certain games. The types of audience that have no interest in games not named mario and Wii ____. Not saying that was the only reason for no support, there is the lack of HD thing, and the sour taste devs already had, but it certainly didn't help at all.

True, but it wouldn't have fostered that audience if 3rd parties already hadn't abandoned Nintendo. They only jumped on board once they saw a profit to be made in mini games. Some companies did port their shit (we got shit like Madden, Rock Band, most of the CoD titles) and I think other companies, like Capcom, would have ported Resident Evil 5, but let's not forget this gen was not easy on the likes of them either. How have they not been bought out?

 

[Inferno313]

Due to the nature of the tablet like controller, I think we will be back to "gamecube land" yes sir. Only with better 3rd party support.

I hope that isn't the deciding factor for third party support. I'll take really lazy implementation of the tablet as long as a game actually comes out.

 

[Caramello]

Sorry to obnoxiously quote myself but this is not to be understated. Plus, it presents the possibility of PS4/720 ports packing in those extra graphical effects down the line but in a downgraded resolution if played on the tablet.

And Nintendo could even update the tablet somewhere down the line! Don't put it past them!

I fully expect a Wii U Controller Plus at some point, whether to add 3D, a better quality screen or something to that effect.

However I don't think developers will be able to add graphical effects when played on the Wii U controller.. I think it'll all be handled by the OS and the game will have to run the same way TV or Tablet.

 

[Caramello]

I don't think Ace is completely wrong though. Nintendo did factually foster a certain kind of audience with their marketing and certain games. The types of audience that have no interest in games not named mario and Wii ____. Not saying that was the only reason for no support, there is the lack of HD thing, and the sour taste devs already had, but it certainly didn't help at all.

I still call bullshit.

Nintendo didn't foster an audience exclusively and I can't see how there could have possibly been more third party support if for example Wii Sports and Wii Fit were replaced with Pikmin 3 and F-Zero.

Revisionist history all up in this shit!

 

[royalan]

Brain Age only got that sort of marketing after it became a big hit without it. I'm just not sure what you mean by "big marketing" it seems pretty subjective and post hoc, if you ask me. Steel Diver also got big marketing too. It was marketed with the 3DS itself.

And yes I have seen Skyward Sword's numbers. Have you seen Steel Diver's? Drill Dozer's? Sin and Punishment's? Your hypothesis of Nintendo fans waiting in legion to snap up new IPs is flawed.

Also Obviously I meant just the presence of new IPs doesn't suffice with Mario and Zelda existing at the same time. The only thing that will please New IP Hawks is for Mario and Zelda to end and new IPs to take their place, because apparently they turn their noses up at any new attempt to make a new IP currently.

Not flawed. Skyward Sword is of course selling better than those titles, it's a big deal game and was treated as such. And, even still having the legacy of Zelda behind it and as huge a marketing push as Nintendo's ever devoted to a single game it's not exactly moving mountains with its sales.

But even still I see what you're saying. Nintendo fans aren't gauranteed to snap up anything Nintendo makes en masse. But I do believe that if Nintendo introduced a new, big deal, AAA IP Nintendo fans would be interested even if Samus, Link or Donkey Kong weren't on the box. Basically, I believe Nintendo would have a much easier time convincing Nintendo fans to buy a new AAA IP than convincing COD gamers to snap up Donkey Kong.

The bolded is where you lose me, though. Nothing about Nintendo creating a new IP means their astanding franchises have to be "replaced." I'm not following your logic on that.

 

[Anth0ny]

By Melee do you mean SSBM itself or a Smash Bros game that plays like Melee in terms of physics and such?

Both would be nice.

But I'm fine with SSBM by itself.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I still call bullshit.

Nintendo didn't foster an audience exclusively and I can't see how there could have possibly been more third party support if for example Wii Sports and Wii Fit were replaced with Pikmin 3 and F-Zero.

Revisionist history all up in this shit!

I don't think Ace is completely wrong though. Nintendo did factually foster a certain kind of audience with their marketing and certain games. The types of audience that have no interest in games not named mario and Wii ____. Not saying that was the only reason for no support, there is the lack of HD thing, and the sour taste devs already had, but it certainly didn't help at all.

.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

https://twitter.com/#!/MarkRein/status/83671040521285632


-Mark Rein of Epic

My crazy whacked out theory: reason we haven't seen hide of hair or Big Picture Mode from Valve is because it's going to have something to do with Wii-U support or a version of it is being tailored for the console

 

[AceBandage]

Well, at least that puts more stock into the rumor of Valve trying to push for Steam on WiiU.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I'm a sucker for matching hardware.

 

[AceBandage]

I'm a sucker for matching hardware.

Looks so weird without the screen.

 

[GDGF]

I'm a sucker for matching hardware.

Looks like Wii and Dreamcast had a baby.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Looks so weird without the screen.

Now I'm going to make the Wii U pad Lite.

 

[royalan]

I'm a sucker for matching hardware.

Flip the right analog stick and buttons, and I'm sold.

GNintendo: Screenless Companion Controller for Wii U Confirmed!!!!

 

[Deguello]

Not flawed. Skyward Sword is of course selling better than those titles, it's a big deal game and was treated as such. And, even still having the legacy of Zelda behind it and as huge a marketing push as Nintendo's ever devoted to a single game it's not exactly moving mountains with its sales.

But even still I see what you're saying. Nintendo fans aren't gauranteed to snap up anything Nintendo makes en masse. But I do believe that if Nintendo introduced a new, big deal, AAA IP Nintendo fans would be interested even if Samus, Link or Donkey Kong weren't on the box. Basically, I believe Nintendo would have a much easier time convincing Nintendo fans to buy a new AAA IP than convincing COD gamers to snap up Donkey Kong.

The bolded is where you lose me, though. Nothing about Nintendo creating a new IP means their astanding franchises have to be "replaced." I'm not following your logic on that.

I hate seeing the classification "AAA" because that's pretty subjective too.

I'm saying the Old IPs would have to be replaced because they continually steal the thunder of the new IPs, whatever they are. Think back to the 3DS launch when most pundits and comments were whining about Zelda being a June title, despite a new IP staring them right in the face as almost the only Nintendo title to have. Oh yeah, that and Nintendogs and Pilotwings.

I'm not against new IPs (as evidenced in every one of my posts.) But I do disagree with your assertion that there are just oodles of Wii, DS, and 3DS owners waiting to snap up new IPs, whatever they are, because they haven't been.

We'll see how new IPs work when Nintendo announces the ones for the Wii U in June (Miyamoto's new IP and Retro's game which is possibly a new IP.) But don't be surprised when you hear the clamor for Mario and Zelda over it.

 

[AceBandage]

Flip the right analog stick and buttons, and I'm sold.

GNintendo: Screenless Companion Controller for Wii U Confirmed!!!!

Poor RMC.
And he has an account here too.

 

[Maxrunner]

https://twitter.com/#!/MarkRein/status/83671040521285632


-Mark Rein of Epic

That's an old twitter post...why did it came back?

 

[The Boat]

Well it actually was not packed in Japan where Wii Sports and the Wii sold like gang busters. It was packed in North America (then Europe) because NOA felt it had to force the consumer to own it rather than market it.

NOA really thinks very little of the consumers ability.

Wii Sports was packed in from launch in Europe too and honestly, I think it was a great move.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Flip the right analog stick and buttons, and I'm sold.

You got it, bro.

 

[Azure J]

I'm a sucker for matching hardware.

First thought: It's cute. :lol

Second thought: Cannot unsee eyes looking downward to the right where the slide pads are.